The internet of everyone else's things: A talk by David Birch on technology and privacy

good evening everybody I’m Eric Haven I’m co-director of the digital economy lab which is one of the hosts of this event I’m very pleased to introduce they burst you and very happy he was able to accept our invitation as those of you who haven’t seen him before will agree with the in an hour once you’ve seen his talk which I’m sure is going to be both entertaining and interesting that Dave is like global ambassador I don’t know whether that means to the globe or of the globe edit any work but fills it up in hard to get he’s a consultant who specializes in it’s going to be so many things that something that’s not like specialization but telecoms money all the big star media basically Dave looks at what’s going on and figures out what’s really going on and then tell people and he says so Neiman typically i think is the Lord he’s spoken at the college number times in the past always brilliantly and I’m sure he’s going to do so again are you know you’re much too kind there and yes the night the idea of this session is because broadly speaking I’m old and you’re young so I think I’ve spotted a bit of a floor in what’s going on at the moment and I’m not quite sure what to do about it but I’m pretty sure some of the budding entrepreneurs sitting around the business school right now we’ll be able to figure this out so what I’m going to do is I’m going to give a couple of practical examples just just a sort of anchor where we are then i’m going to talk sort of generally about structuring what what the problem is a sort of higher level and then i’m going to make a suggestion as to as to one plausible hypothesis for fixing it which you’re going to to then take away in turning something brilliant so just just for the privacy aware you are being filmed obviously going to notice to the back does anyone know who this guy is just a variance just wandered months familiar at all and so but you know if you’re very nervous better you could just pass me little notes on scraps of paper you don’t have to use your real names but if you want to just put your hand up I’ll do my best to answer the questions and please do interrupt as I’m going along because I’m not entirely sure where this is going to be an to do and without you to sort of large it in the right direction you know the hour might end up in a very different place so please feel free to interject at the appropriate words so they call it the Internet of Things i call it the internet of everyone else’s things and the reason i call it that is because the people who are putting together the internet of things are broadly speaking people like me technologists and as a consequence we get carried away with the excitement but what the technology can do and we go around hooking everything up and we haven’t really thought through what’s going to happen when we’ve hooked everything up and the reason we do this is because it’s a highly asymmetric thing show you in a minute so broadly speaking building doors is quite easy but building likes is quite I’m used to talking to marketing people if it’s too slow or you just just nudge me along a little bit so just go back to my milk so building doors is actually quite easy the building locks is really quite difficult and this is the a submit a symmetry this of an article problem so um you look music rocks with triggers the orbiter so here’s their here’s a simple case study of the internet of things I think is quite a good case study which is very useful in many different ways so is there anybody in the audience that could read any of these labels there’s nobody here from South Korea well my joke doesn’t work then on stage and we’ll walk back into that again okay so here is here is a good example of the Internet of Things working so in South Korea I’m reliably informed there’s a terrible problem with counterfeit scotch whiskey Scotch whisky is a prized import for our foreign visitors who don’t follow that you can alter these things you have to understand in the United Kingdom there

is more fun there is more whiskey value in what they call bonded warehouses just where the customs duties come from there is gold in the Bank of England that used to be a funny joke Gordon Brown sold it all over a rock bottom price a few years ago so it would be obviously be true it’s even more true now than it was before whisk is an extremely valuable export and one of the places we export it to a South Korea but there’s a terrible problem with counterfeit Scotch whisky because imagine the disappointment if you took home one of those bottles having saved up there’s some time for it when you get it how you take your first class you realize this is terrible counterfeit knock off a chapter net where do they make knockoff whiskey I’ve got to the end of that story look at it up but wherever they make terrible counterfeit knockoff whiskey I know London wherever they make terrible counterfeit knockoff whiskey from this might well have come from there and that would be dreadful and so so they came up with a jolly clever solution to this so the bottle caps have an RFID chip inside and there’s pretty cards with all phones you have to have want the special phones but this is an if there’s an international standard these RFID chips and you can read them either with the folder with the Bluetooth devices attached the phone so you go to the shop so let’s just say phone for sake of argument to speak so you go to the shop and you can take your phone and you can touch the bottle of scotch whiskey but your phone can tell you whether it’s a legitimate bottom an excellent Scotch whisky or some appalling knockoff counterfeit somewhere else and if you think and how do you think it does that just out of curiosity this has tried some business school thinking here I’m not picking on anyone in particular but would anyone like to venture get how does it know like where you wait like pretend don’t think about how the technology works where I just imagine imagine there are pics its living in the Scotch whistle as man who can talk to elves that live in your phone right what would they so how do you know it’s real because obviously the pics is that live in the counterfeit bottles of scotch whiskey are also going to say that they’re real right so you have to so if the answer is not that simple search it so the pics is that live in scotch whiskey bottle are talking to the elves who live in your phone so what are they going to say to convince your phone that it’s real scotch whiskey and not some appalling counterfeit it’s the barcode well and yes except unfortunate rather trivial to copy so if I was a if I was a desperado engaged in large-scale counterfeit Scotch whisky smart what i would do is going to read some real barcodes and copy them and put them into my bottles knock off couch so I can’t be as simple as the dark but that’s good start to think ill but if I say some number number thing I have to go to the manufacturer and come back yes if I correct yeah exactly so what but do you know how this worked or you just use the employers right now as impressive water so the nice Imperial come on so but the issue you is a key right of course there’s no way the bottle can attest itself to the fact that it’s absolutely not to counterfeit because in fact there’s that there was a case in the UK like this with wine remember those brother the names without my head those Italian brothers they were putting these pretend labels all go captain Carter these bolts of mine were fourteen thousand dollars a bottle right it’s not the sort of thing I would normally you’d have to go to the staff room to see that kind of thing round we wouldn’t you know students wouldn’t necessarily see that kind of thing but there are bottles of wine that fourteen thousand dollars and so what they were doing which is putting plunk in the bottles of stick in the labels to do the same thing and the head of our code on them as well yes so what happens is your your phone reads a unique number from the chip and then the phone goes online to a database and says broadly speaking do you think this is real and the database can say well actually if that is that bot then that bottle was manufactured on this date and it was shipped through this distributor and it ended up with this storm right so your phone then compares what it’s just been told with so for example if I scan this knit so well this was made on such-and-such a day and it went to this way a how-to went to this distribution center and as far as we know it went to tesco and i’m standing in Tesco then it’s a plausible hypothesis that this is about bottle of whiskey and we can all move on and in fact the system site even cleverer than an ocean because when you open that the chip is actually in the bottle cap with the antenna in vodka so when you open the bottle when you braise the chip so once you open the bottle the chip is broken I can’t be reused it’s

quite a clever sort of idea and the suppose I can’t afford that really fantastic whiskey and so I’ve invited eric ground for dinner I know he really likes whiskey but I know he’s also a bit of a pose I know he wouldn’t really know whether this was the really nice whiskey or the knockoff huge right so I produce a bottle of the really nice whiskey but it’s actually got the not confusion sorry and I serve him a glass of it and everything is absolutely fine until his nosy busybody wife takes her phone ounce cans the bottle and says wait a minute that’s not them oops so putting an RFID chip in the bottle sold one of the problems but it causes quite a few others because anybody can read that I’m so so you know I would never be resuming obviously no no but I bought it for them i see i know that these really were knockoff huge bottles say so what the maffya have done is they’ve God have got a whole load of the bottles and the caps filled them up with a knockoff hooch or member the top story and so I I know full well but it’s not the real stuff I’m just banking everybody know but imagine the social embarrassment when he finds out and what’s more he can prove it because it’s got access to the database that it really is no cough got think this through and you know it’s em that database by the way then of course becomes the vector for attack because actually what the chips are you said barcodes I mean in reality all the chips are is bar codes that you can’t copy right the reason you can’t copy them is because can’t make duplicates of the chips I have to steal the chips from the factory I can’t make copies myself and but but it’s hard to attack though so what of course if I was the bad guys over the type of database right so now I fight like stories through I’m going to serve the whiskey to Eric but I know his wife’s a busybody she’s one of these phones so what I would do is I would log into the database first and change the database so the database says that it’s the real whiskey and then when it’s my touches the whiskey bottle go through if that’s a relief okay good sorry I know get away with this name but you see the point of the story right which is you know in the smart you go in putting chips in everything and that sounds good but we can actually start to think of the use cases and how that’s going to turn into an actual business because we have to go with the grain of something that can be a business to make all of this work you know Angela’s high-faluting ideals where privacy and so on unless it’s a business it’s not going to happen so we have to think of ways to make that into a business but that’s a read example okay so that is one way of doing it but now suppose suppose it’s not bottle of whiskey suppose suppose it’s pants pants is another good example for thinking about anything so and so I go down to Marks and Spencers and i buy pants that have got a chipping and I would cheerfully met I would cheerfully pay more for pants that have a chip in them than pads that don’t because one of the things to chip in the pants will say is you have to put this on like a cold wash or a hot water or a warm wash you can’t mix it with these different colors or whatever I guess your hands on my beautiful hauser on a rough Roberto hadn’t been having been married reporter per century there’s probably more arguments in my house about putting the wrong stuff in the washing machine that anything else put together I’m not making a gender esporte but the way they design washing machine is very confused and then it’s very they have a dial with labels on it either it’s of course it’s in it’s in the do tivity room in our house a little bit dark you can’t always see these things properly and I don’t you know you’re not better with the blue in with the turquoise how am I supposed to know what I was like would you say that was blue or teal I don’t know where you can turquoise see it’s very confusing as we have different receptors I’m not making a generous point there’s just way things work so I would cheerfully pay more for pan started shipping them and a washing machine that can read those chips who seriously who here would not pay more put your hand up if you would not pay more for a washing machine that could read the chips impacts of course you would would you kick let’s do it would you pay would you pay 50 pounds more for a washing machine that can do that of course you would there’s your business idea right there in people what are you doing sitting around in the mirror you should you should have an emergency on called patent lawyer right now for this

that’s what happens around here right that’s exactly you should be working on that idea right now the washing machine should read the chips in the pants and stop these terrible accidents from happening right so I come down I put all the pants in the washing machine and I press the button and the washing machine says no and it sends a little message to my phone which says you’ve got to take the black pepper to the white pants over you watch or whatever right something that’s easier for me to understand who wouldn’t pay more for pants that could do that and a washing machine you could do that of course you would we all would it’s an absolutely never to do lity no I’m so serious it’s absolutely now I said Marks and Spencers up that’s one of the case of refer to it so Marks and Spencers actually did have tags but they do have tags in clothing and those tags work work really well that’s washing machine it’s got it yep and they do work really well but all these privacy people made a big fuss about this right so there’ll be like Angela who said we’re putting these tags in pans well that’s not a very good idea because what if other people read because it’s all very well but Marks and Spencers so I come along with a big palette of pans in Marks and Spencers and the machine at Marks and Spencers could read all of the tabs in all of the power plants of ones and there were over our and that’s great but what if you’ve got one of those measurements that doesn’t sound quite right again the machines that mark so with their stocks of mad mark’s dispensers if you just think about how this ship’s working general you’re all pretty familiar with how the 900 megahertz epc chips work right so there’s a rearranged on those things depending on the pair of the readers 25 to 30 meters the readers can read thousands of these things a second so you could drive it you could drive a truck load full of pants through one of the readers and the readers would just in a fraction of a second read all of them and they would know exactly what pants are there and that’s why we want the technology right because because it tells us exactly what’s going on and that’s good for a supply chain but the privacy Mona’s said are where you have to make the tags so that after you buy the parents the tag doesn’t work in right so so I believe book on that’s not right because that means all the benefits are having those tags in the pants a cruise to mark suspense it’s none of it accrues to me I want the tag in my parents or at least don’t want the choice besides it will be sort of fun like if I backgrounds where it’s for dinner it would be considered and free inappropriate we’re English and we’re very reserved about these kind of things so if I just went up stairs inside looking throughout Japan straw people would consider that was some people would probably say well then if you’d say anything because you’re English but you would look disapproving of people who ever started looking through the pants draw you were tucked probably sort of thing he wouldn’t invite me back that I could be sure about but I would never find out why I would just not be on the Christmas card list anymore but if your phone could read the pan I mean come on it would be I mean who wouldn’t do that you’re at the dinner table it’s a boring dinner party I’m dying to know whether that really is a Chanel suit or not I couldn’t resist having a quick look on my phone just to see where the Eric suit is real or not and while I’m doing that I can’t help noticing those pants looking a little dated hands have been around for a while and it’s odd because looking upstairs they seem to be a lot of new pants so putting chips in things sounds like quite a good idea until you start thinking through the use cases and then it starts to sound a little bit i’ll give you another example suppose suppose i have a look where watch because i’m trying to hear the damage the kids and i read in a magazine the kids don’t wear watches anymore so see i’m painting with the audience’s look technical so i’m not wearing a watch em but suppose I had a very expensive Rolex watch right cost five thousand pounds I really want people to know right the whole point of being an honest soul walking around with a 5000 pound rolex watch is I want everyone to know it’s 5,000 pound rolex watch right otherwise where’s the fun what’s the point of having the 5,000 pound Rolex watch if no one knows it’s a real 5,000 pam rolex watch it could be the 50 quid when I got in Hong Kong which looks exactly the same right but

I’m a real so I mean I want people to know I want you to come and scan that Rolex with your phone and find out that it’s a real 5,000 pound Rolex and not some kind of knock off and because i’ll pay 5,000 pounds for the Rolex watch that can do that i’ll pay 5,500 pounds but a Rolex what can broadcast the back this rule so there’s a commercial pressure for things to do this right and turn because we’re human beings and that’s the sort of thing that will do of course if I was a burglar the first thing I need to do is start driving up and down the street near where Eric lives with my phone looking for where all the five thousand dollar rolex watches are so swings and roundabouts is what I’m saying about this sort of thing so the question is is this a is this an irresolvable paradox or is there a way to get through this is there a way of having the 5000 on a Rolex watch which tells people I want to know there’s a five-thousand-dollar over towards despite that Rolex watch but not telling the people that I don’t want to know this five thousand other words whether it’s like there’s no toilet water you see what it mean like is that a paradox is there some way through news and this is kind of what I want to expect the experiment on the view I should say I won’t show you the video because I don’t get involved in any sort of messy lawsuits you know but we didn’t expect we didn’t do we made a little video because we thought it would be a fun idea for a night club thing that when you went into a nightclub you can have a thing that scan people’s pants because like for example like if I was trying to find attractive women in a nightclub then knowing that I had clean pants on I think would be like a plus point for it so I wanted to be able to scan a fiber and it will put me an advantage against to be employed pretty much suspect don’t have clean hands look at me a big plus point so we made a little video of scanning various types of chips through the cosars no need to be discovered and there’s no pattern maybe the physics department head was out of this we couldn’t figure out why some ships would read through some kinds of fabric but not through others I mean I so genuine question I genuinely don’t know why it was and there was no it wasn’t like it was all cotton or all nigh on a somber some things you could read the chips threw in some things you couldn’t but I think we need to get the physics department after this one because unless you could read all of the parents then you would think people hiding something you don’t mean like if you came into the nightclub and you can see the air expands when you but my pants or cryptographically blinded and then you think I was hiding something that would be your completely fine and that could take us down a very unfortunate so we have to think of all aspects of this now i’m using pants as a maybe not a metaphor nor an analogy i’m using them as a class example pants are a fun example to talk about but for pans read everything right for pants read your electricity meter your car your phone everything about you in this connected internet of things crazy mixed-up world right so just remember the picture of the pans because that’s how serious the problem is but it’s not just pants it’s everything hand such as always focusing your attention I’m not just talking about pants I’m talking about all sorts of personal items okay right so that’s illustrated a couple of the issue isn’t a thing so sense name’s drew so now let’s talk about the general problem remember what I said about the door and the lock so the general problem is that connecting things up is quite easy which is why people like me do it and so here’s Nixon front I’ve made a list of things I started making a list and I thought that was too boring and but the first one I thought I’d make a nice picture so this is this is one of my favorite picture so this is the men from the general post office coming to expect mr. Marconi’s radio equipment on the occasion of the first long distance by which I mean three radio transmission in the United Kingdom and the men from the post office have come down to investigate this wonder that’s why I like that picture but broadly speaking for quite a long time connecting things together has been really rather easy and it doesn’t particularly matter for the purposes of what we’re thinking about here it doesn’t matter whether we’re talking about you know the internet or wireless or radio Bluetooth through RFID or whatever it’s just connection is the issue connecting things together receives its its irresistible to connect things together you didn’t believe go to mobile world congress in barcelona in

February and there’s an amazing array of things being connected to phones for no obvious reason I could see other than that you could do it right so I’m looking this think the Muslim why would you want to connect that your phone and make any sense to me it was because you can basically who knows what would be early Bluetooth Low Energy you guys already playing around bluetooth low energy right so you know you can have these little bluetooth low energy connectors that will run for two or three years without having a battery charge right one of the examples I saw yes there’s a company that’s got a little ribbon double-o a payment spring that you can put on that will last for about three years before the battery writer one of the art students that has a in our competition design when a couple years ago jetha was quite clever he had a Bluetooth smart rigged with it’ll spike inside it and every time you use your credit card to buy something the spike prick you because he was doing a project about trying to make electronic money into something tactile again and I thought that was it just looks river because it’s a world of psychological problem you spend more money electronically than your spending with physical cash so the idea was if you had a spike that was pretty new every time you spend something and will bring back the reality of physical cash but the point is really like that could last two or three years one charge so we can connect things up quite easily I mean the range on that is quite long actually so we’ve probably looked at what some of the retailers are doing at the moment so if you have a phone that’s got bluetooth low energy like my iphone is not going to go if you’ve got a samsung s4 s5 that’s got the earlier there’s lots of fun to the Bluetooth Low Energy so basically when I walk into a shop not only just the shop know that I’m in the show it knows exactly where I am because if you put three of these beacons around the shops at the phone can triangulate where it is then the app can send it back you can be trapped within centimeters so now I’m walking around my weight rotor sorry I did laughs it’s just anybody and I’m walking around with my lead over here and now little knows exactly what I’m standing in front of not just that I’m in the shop and there for me that would be fantastic because I would like my shop in that bought my phone to be able to help me find my way around the store and optimize my right so when you do your shopping list the app would then tell you you need to go this way this way that’d be great right you mean that making one of the fun things about bluetooth low energy is it works using unique numbers right so if you go into a shop and you find out which numbers the beacons abroad cars do you can set any device to broadcast those numbers so so there was a good example at CES earlier in here in Las Vegas you could get a prize for going around the different stalls right so if you have around 10 of the different stores like nokia and microsoft whatever you could win a prize and they had a nap and it was using these booty so cause what happened so the first day that walks round goes round collects all the beacon numbers puts them on the internet and then millions of people around the world just sit in front of their laptops going bbbbb or I want a prize and it wasn’t a big prize but you get the point but I think it could be very funny to like sit on the it on the tray with a couple of these phones and make the phone broadcast so that the people in the train carriage thing release their phones think that they’re inside the dogs or something just i think the lads the Gaiety information i’m not sure but it is it’s easy connecting things up is just easy now in the Internet of Things we’re not just connecting things up we’re connecting things up but we have to be able to uniquely address them otherwise it doesn’t count the Internet of Things right so strictly speaking if you’re just connecting things together but you don’t know what they are and you can’t uniquely identify them then that’s just like the internet of stuff that doesn’t really count to be the Internet of Things you’ve got to be able to identify the thing that you’re connecting up it doesn’t matter what it is so here’s a box of stuff in my office there’s something in the box of stuff in my office it’s the thing I’m looking for where are my keys where’s my whatever it doesn’t matter what I’m looking for whatever is I’m looking for right there I can now find it I’ve got my phone oh it’s in that box over there I go that’s the Internet of Things you have to be able to address things uniquely there’s a little bit more to it because the things that you serve sort of building up my argument of more counts of the Internet of Things as opposed to just stuff right so I’ve got to be able to uniquely identify something it’s a bottle of scotch whiskey it’s the pen I was looking for its my camera whatever and but I’ve also got to be able to

understand what the properties of it up otherwise it’s pointless being able to interact with it so if you look up for example if you lose it further experimental purposes if you use bluetooth low energy for experimental purposes one of the first things you learn about is you have a thing of set of thing that are properties that you could write so if I see your if I see your bluetooth thingy one of the things I can do with is interrogated say what can you do and the bluetooth thingy will say I you know I can give you a temperature i can give you a location i mean whatever it doesn’t matter so it’s useful if the thing has some properties I mean I suppose you could argue that doing nothing is one of the properties but knowing the Scotch whisky example we were looking at earlier on the only property is the unique identifying number for you know it’s got to do something otherwise what’s the point of that just over property but as you pointed out really at the beginning unless we have provenance as wearable we can’t do very much with these two things right so this is so this is my generalized concept the Internet of Things the thing has to have some kind of unique product that’s though some properties but it has to have some kind of Providence because otherwise none of neither of these things will be believable or usable in anywhere so we have to have this Third Point and of course the point of the discussion they have to have some security because if those three things don’t have security because it’s our mantra Angelo isn’t it you can’t have privacy without security you have security with our privacy you can’t have privacy without security so unless these things are secured we have no privacy and right now I think the current state of affairs is these things are not secure and so you can blather on about privacy to your heart’s content you’re not going to get it because the basic building blocks aren’t there so we have to change those basic building blocks so that they have some security right so let’s pick a quick couple of examples to illustrate that so who likes home and it was watching hanging back don’t tell me you’re all in the library the whole time you haven’t got time so let’s have a plot spoiler for the people who didn’t watch how bad the vice president of the United States gets murdered at one point because the bad guys log in and they change his pacemaker is half face now if I had a heart pacemaker I would probably have changed the Wi-Fi password some problems because I’m quite a security conscious sort of person not so the vice president the united states he probably left it admin admin or something like so the bad guys logged in and turned up his pacemaker he drops dead well I’m just saying that’s one of the things that could happen if you then take this seriously no security means no privacy and with all due respect you know that something bad coming down right so too with all due respect to the people that were here the panel discussion earlier on before this so what right I might as well have said to Nick blah blah blah blah blah because we don’t have this security and so therefore you can say what you like about your idealized versions of privacy you’re not going to have it so we have to concern we have to have privacy at this level but just to go back to my earlier point we have to have privacy at this level which makes sense in business terms we’ve got to go with the grain and make things that work as a business I that’s how we’re going to get the privacy that we want i think is by making work in that way okay right so oh yes sir i just put this in as an illustration because when i when i was talking through the rough version of this was somebody else they said well aren’t i’m exaggerating a bit by saying everything’s going to have a chip in it but I maintain I’m not so this is a diagram that actually comes from 2005 this is a nine-year-old diagram that came for something we did for a client nine years ago pointing out the falling cost of these chips right and so we’re down here right so the cost of those chips is already absolutely nothing you know we already have all of the stuff that we need to make the internet of things work so don’t don’t think I’m talking hypothetically I’m not will we’re down there already okay now so let’s have i’m just going to as an experiment i’m going to give you three examples of the use of those chips and then you’re going to give me three examples right because before we talk about security bit i just want to I mean we were making fun about the pants and the Scotch whisky you’re lucky you missed the Scotch whisky and stuff I

won’t bother going back over it and but i want you to give me three examples of it so i may give you three right indonesian logs very clever example you have a forest of sustainable wood in indonesia and one of your suppliers it’s like I care not like you I won’t say who it is it’s someone like IKEA they insist that the wood that they use comes from your supplier that comes from your and sustainable forest plantation and they came up with a brilliant solution for doing what they do is they’ve got nails that have got the chips inside right so what they do is they go round and they randomly so so the guy from the company goes to the plantation goes to all the trees in the plantation and he randomly hammers a nail into each of the trees just in a random place in the truth and he hammers it right in okay and then later when the trees are cut down shipped they can check that the logs that are coming into their there it’s not for making furniture some it’s for making like bits of houses basically so basically these these huge logs come in and then they have to go into these soils right and so when the logs come in they can instantly see that the logs that they’re getting are the ones that came from and if the log comes in and it doesn’t have the nail in it then then it’ll be rejecting them i get paid for because there’s another clever parts of this which is you take logs with nails in and put them into the saw mill they bugger up the sword so the fact that you can see exact so they’ve got the text so they can read and they can see exactly where the nail isn’t pulling out and the world goes through the sub kind of interesting example haven’t thought of we talked to at Marks and Spencers don’t do it again and the nightclub example a I did I thought that’s a funny example and the reason is because so this is this is the Baja beach nightclub in Barcelona it’s a happening kind of place and the people that go to the Baja beach nightclub in Barcelona and don’t have a lot of pockets right pockets and operate fashionable at the moment you guys wouldn’t know anything about this just take my word for it pockets are not very fashionable about okay so so what they did was they said if you have a nightclub loyalty card you can have a choice of having the loyalty card as a card boo here’s your one hello 1940s or you can have it as a chip injected in your arm and i have to tell you a great many people chose to have the chip inject it in their arm i’m not saying they were a random cross section of the population obviously these are people who are on drugs and it’s floods but nevertheless when it comes to inform consent talking to people are off their heads and say can we put the chip in now sign here they signed and there the chip put in so now if you’re at the Baja beach nightclub in Barcelona and you’re having a really good time I can only kind of picture I’ve never been into an icon picture what goes on so you call the waiter over and you say gin and tonic please my good man something similar and the waiter comes back to your gin and tonic and he has a little really just taps your arm and it goes on to your bill ok who wouldn’t do that just out I beg their well you notice that our four of a few years we have an annual for about the future of transactions and I bet as the company does chemical berry chip and I begged them to come and in genuine one of these things and they wouldn’t do it health and safety if you’re off your head in a nightclub no problem if you’re trying to do it a cold light of day health and safety issues you somebody said they wouldn’t do it who said they wouldn’t do it why not happen what are they gonna do approval for that well I mean they’ve got FDA approval I think for putting it in pigs it’s pretty sick actually the reason why they were originally implanted them in people was nothing to do with nightclubs they were originally designed for Alzheimer’s patients so that Alzheimer’s facilities because people with Alzheimer’s tend to wander off a lot of the time and it’s very dangerous because they just want so so basically they chip them up and which is a very good user job it and then an entrepreneur sort of possibilities obviously thinking somebody is off their head in a nightclub is a bit like that without scientifically we can clearly scale the opportunity across here right so that’s three example I’m with you now I want you to give me so I’ve picked three examples here which I’m not going to say about what I want you to guess so so let’s think about cows who would like to make cows part of the Internet of Things and give us an example as to why

you think our shoot stolen they get stolen I sure wasn’t what I was thinking about Brussels that’s that’s actually better than my answer so where do they get started let’s don’t really like I’m like the Wild West kind of you sneak a cow oh she gets those my sister is my sister lives up in cotswolds and and sheep rustling have become a bit of a problem there because because there are there edit and it wasn’t do you know how much it costs to get a sheep slaughtered an abattoir I made it to joins it’s like nothing is like 10 quid or something I didn’t know it was so cheap my brother had a completion I know this and so people still sheep and take them to these abattoirs who don’t ask the right questions in my opinion you just walk in with any old shoe I’ve been asked them to but you should give them the Sheep at the 10 quid you get back the lamb chops no questions asked I agree it’s illegal but that’s the degraded state of our nation so she psk are saying they’re probably a bit of Harvick but they do get stolen action actually I wasn’t what I was thinking about I thought it’d be more amusing for our foreign visitors to understand that in England the cows are man and because the kind i don’t mean upset I mean insane right so in England because the cows are mad at the government passed some laws a few years ago about how you have to track every individual can wait you look at cows in a field they just all look the same to you right but under the law and we shouldn’t want to step outside those boundaries you have to track all the individual cows because if one of your cows turns out to be mad you have to find out why and where it came from and you don’t raise it problems very intuitive and this is very complex and expensive operation and one of the ways you can do it cows don’t answer to a name for exam they’re not very helpful in max all my spare time they have you have to go put metal tags on their ears and but actually if I was one of the criminal cow rustlers that plague the west country at the moment the first thing I do of course is take off that tag and put on the tag for a valid cow that already gone to the abattoir so cows solution for cows is what’s called a bonus so what you do is you put the RFID chip into a hard round balls about this big attaching make them they run 2.4 gigahertz if you need a longer range you give the boulders to the cow and because of the way cow stomachs work there the bolus gets trapped in the cow’s stomach by the way I’m not gonna this isn’t the children example horrified looking down already so cows are already part of the Internet of Things right now yeah what about cars who’s got a car that’s part of the Internet of Things come on someone’s got a flash in Carver’s did does your does your car report back to base until the sugar tell the insurance company if you’ve been staying out too late or things like that no I’m just who dis planted your toes away my niece when she passed her test last year the only way she could afford insurance on it was you a strictly speaking arrow in my sisterhood for assurance on her car where she has a little black box on her karma which tells the insurance company she stays out after midnight or breaks the speed limit and would you stop with like that good thing or bad thing reduce fatigue I well I think it’s been thinking Jeff so much restricted teenagers this why I’m looking forward to the self-driving car thing because I heard a thing on the Today programme a couple of days ago about ooh one day they might be cell you know because of google and all that one day they might be self-driving cars in the UK I want to live in a UK where there aren’t only self-driving cars letting people drive cars is crazy I don’t why we allow that to piss it that you know that there’s the congestion zone I guarantee you in 10 years time the congestion joke will be self-driving cars over why don’t you let people drive right with self-driving cars they’ll optimize the roots they can be cut you can pack far more cars onto the road when they’re self-driving cars when you let people get into the loop that’s madness blame me let’s get back to the point you can send out automatic speeding fine exactly but they will get speed but don’t never speak see this is why this is why we were subverting the legal principles earlier on this is the Lawrence Lessig stuff Cody’s law right there wouldn’t be such a thing of speeding fines because the code wouldn’t let you do it right the code would be

the law at him too who doesn’t want to live in a country where the code is good all right I do did you write the penny well it’s all in charge of the Cubs yes you remove it but little clear vantage it who’s got a car that’s part of the Internet of Things whose car reports back to base okay well virtually none of you the moment but let me tell you right here was my catheter your zipper and they report back to base where they are I should think so too so how long do you think you’ll be before all of your cars are part of the Internet of Things I mean realistically exactly i mean you’re really you’re talking just really a few years and all cars be part of things things he use very evil which wires put into non commercial vehicles emergency transponders that crash will report back to so in a scause so it’s an easy project so now I’m against it now it’s bro so the current regulation is that by September 2013 all cars for consumers must have this it and currently the numbers four percent well I genuinely did not know that thank you very much like you okay so that point really okay so all gods of everything what about children the children should be the internet of things I’ve been feeling guilty about this but recently because because at home our cats got a chip in it right and and when her brother got run over and the vet was able to phone us up right away because he got run over and taken to the vet he was dead he was taken to a vet and the vets can the chip and rang us up right away and told us that you’ve been run over right and but when my son was like home the other night and I sort of wondering where he is right because he’s 17 so if my son says he’s going to be hung one and he doesn’t get home until kind of like 130 tonight that means I have 30 minutes assuming that he’s been killed in a knife fight over drugs or you know it’s falling asleep on electrified railway line under the influence of skunk I don’t even care enough about my son to put a chip in don’t you think Matt’s don’t you think that’s wrong like I care enough about my cat to put a chip in my cat my cat’s part of the internet of things but I don’t care enough about my children or the chip then maybe we should be part now I can see there is some I can see there are some non English people over here looking at me a bit skeptically and I know what you’re thinking you’re thinking yes we know English people don’t like children very much we like to send them off to carols at the earliest opportunity we’d prefer to have the horse is near the house the dogs in the bed this is all true but I’ve got some kinds of Gil’s about how I should be looking after my children why aren’t children happy they were at one of the uk’s still is real they tagged all of their clothes that happen to the eventual that’s not good enough then I think they need to tag the kids which is legit but it’s heading in that direction though isn’t it so so yeah I’m more concerned about security on you wouldn’t you care enough about your kids to put chips would you that’s true actually but but you say that but they couldn’t even find a 777 and on that satellite so finding my son is all to get a different proposition I used to work for native over many many years ago used to work with Sheikh técnicas Andrews de worth of NATO and I sort of vaguely remember I don’t give any state secrets but I sort of vaguely remember that the radar systems they had would spot member the lcas oh you you would be able to spot a sparrow forward and then I realize all the agents of foreign powers have to do with junk in a bunch of 777 and they become straight there’s some very funny going on don’t you think that should be part of the internet of things but was it I hope they make the part of the internet things in the future give me one more suggestion is I mean this should be part of games there things Eric wasn’t it allows about your children one now they should we got these everything does it go why why are people doing why are you honey i Doan terms in their cats and other children absolutely because people like one min earlier people don’t actually trust security oh there we go drown all the air with kids

that is good but they don’t want to be happy there Charles quite so you sort of ruined big o voi slide which is these examples sound funny and silly and whatever but if we have the security they wouldn’t be right so so adding cows and cars and children to the Internet of Things actually makes a lot of sense if you have the security you can’t have the privacy with Apple security I think I’ve labored that point enough let’s move on to running out okay so connecting things up was easy right even my even making cow as part of the Internet of Things was easy but disconnecting things is really hard so putting a chip in my cat so that I can read it as Eric just ruin the slide by pointing at all putting a chip in my cat so that I can read it is really easy putting a chip in my cat so that everyone can read it is really easy but putting a chip in my cat that only I can read ooh that’s a bit more complicated that’s quite a lot and the way of thinking about this I think people remember stupid stories better so so think about the picture of the barbed wire so the reason I’m using barbed wire their internet porn are there Americans in the room are there any Americans you know I’m not sound too much like a stand-up comedian but are there any Americans you madam I’ve never seen you before in my life do you have a statue medal post or a flag in the honor of Joseph H glitter in your house at all signal tanzania’s Joseph page glidden’s one of the greatest Americans have ever lived joseph glidden is the new hampshire farmer who invented the machine making continuously rolled by wife joseph glidden invented barbed wire he’s one of the greatest American heroes of all time he’s virtually unknown you know why because when America was opening up the west and certain if you remember the story of how all this worked but people were given land grants and those land grants started offer to a 20 acres then 40 acres aid eventually those land grants were 160 acres and you still couldn’t get anybody to go help and the reason was was visiting in the Midwest do you think I’m making this up i know it’s completely true there was no wood to make fences it wasn’t you know it was it wasn’t any good giving people land if they couldn’t make it their back right you see where this clumsy metaphor is gone they couldn’t enclose it exactly you see the clever security analogy bubbling up here right so until there was a mechanism of enclosing the land the land was worthless it was economically values you could brand your cows but you couldn’t stop them from wandering around and until you could make fences the land wasn’t an economic Union and went continuously roll barbed wire in fact if you go to the museum of barbed wire the museum of barbed wire they naturally attached a little bit of hyperbole but if you go to the museum of barbed wire they’ll tell you it was a more important invention in terms of turning the American West into an economic entity than the telegraph or the railroad connecting things up is easy disconnecting things was harmed okay so think about here so the quicker you see what going so what what is the bar so in the Internet of Things this new landscape who’s going to invent the barbed wire that I let you see how this is all together now I know you will get a bit skeptical earlier because you’re like where’s this going but you see about what this is the challenge for the next generation of Imperial students so we finish by me making my tiny suggestion which I think may have an inkling that the clue as to where to go honest now the reason I was thinking about this was because I was trying to think about the commonality between the sort of the Internet of Things and the internet people because we’ve done a lot of work on security around people and I mean I would be the first to a Greek van jou it’s got a lot of way to go but there are we have the germs of some principles and some good ideas inside back so I thought maybe we could take some of these and generalize the modes of things and so very quickly I’ll just explain to you what I think applying these three things over here is so the first is identification so this is recognition so we don’t have to identify things so for example this is me buying a cup of coffee in the beam in Broadway which one my favorite coffee places around the corner when my customers so in the beam in Broadway they have paypal here so if you want to buy a cup of coffee you run paypal on your phone you go in and ask for a cup of coffee your picture shows up on the point of sale terminal and they give you the cup of coffee and you walk out you don’t have to give them cards or paper or any of the other

old-fashioned ways that you people pay for the internet you just walk in and ask for a cup of coffee they give you a cup of coffee and you walk out okay the reason it works is because paypal has got your picture inside the paypal here application and the person wrote working the till can see your picture and that’s good enough okay so here’s the picture that’s in my application as you can see is actually a car too I’ve got the guy to take off a few pounds and I think that slightly more rugged shadow looks better than beard actually and so I could buy a cup of coffee with a cartoon of me all right and why not that’s good enough my point is it’s good enough for the purposes of the transaction so that’s my first point so when we took an identification and does not be identification like anal probes and DNA okay it’s like good enough identification for the purposes of a transaction which leaves from the issue about dating message so that maybe maybe that’s one way of getting somewhere with it right I mean maybe you don’t need to know that it’s my cat maybe you just need to know that it’s a cat right maybe the little cat door on my house will only let my cat it right but maybe the little cat scaring thing in your garden will just scare away catch engine okay does it need to know the identity of the cars that it’s probably not right so the fat like recognition good enough for the transaction make maybe that’s one way of moving forward the scent one live what the problem we had at the very beginning about the database who gets to look at that database I I go into the store and I think that’s a fantastic Chanel suit Eric’s wearing I want to suit just like that so I don’t want Eric to know that of course obviously so when he’s not looking I surreptitiously scared his sue oh god damn it’s from Primark movements not a real one after all so I’ll go down to Chanel to get the real work and when I go into Chanel the first thing i’ll do is i’ll scan the suit on the rack is this a real chanel soon yes it is but why would she now tell me that because how’d they know i’m not a far east and counterfeiting operation that’s looking at the suits and taking the numbers of them how do they know that I not from a rival store who’s coming to do some stock taking and see how many suits I’ve got installed because obviously can scan the suits out the back as well how you decide who’s going to get access to that information right this goes back to the privacy point about earlier on so control control over those references control over who says this can do what but what if like maybe I can only read to find out it’s a real suit or not that’s that’s the only information i can get back but you work for the company so you can get back more image you can get back some information which says well you know it is a suit it has these properties you know you should really wash it at this temperature and blah blah blah you could get more of those attributes back and we sort of know a little bit about how to do that from the front of people space and then the third thing is the reputation reputation so the history the history of the interactions with those attributes reputations are much harder to forge than attributes right because you have to build up the history so so if I if I just make a knockoff version of the suit put the tag on it put something in a database you looking at their yes it’s a suit it’s a real but if I have to see okay it went to this warehouse it was shipped by that trucking company it went to this distribution so that’s much harder to forge right so actually if we move towards anchoring things on the reputations are you the history of the attributes in the database rather than these snapshots we might get somewhere and my point is I think with some of the technology already have in particular smartphones and public key infrastructure we already have some of the grains of the technology we need to make that solution work and in particular some of the I mean I was joking earlier about cryptographic blindin but this idea that you have you have something it obtains its references in cryptographically blinded man so you get back an attribute set but you it’s cryptographic young linkable to the item yeah so the community Harper you to forward you that that I think has the root of some of these some of these okay so so you know I I know that it’s a cat but I never whose cat it is the cryptographically not just because I can’t believe the stuff in the database so so I think and now if you think if

you think what those mean in terms of the people example it’s all about entitlements in the people example it’s all about switching from the idea of a national identity scheme to go back to the idea of a national entire team of scheme which we discussed endlessly and I won’t bore everybody to here with it unless they especially asked me to but this is the idea that you you your thing or you demonstrate what it’s entitled to do not what it is ok so we frame the problem as in I go and look the things up in a database of provider so let’s think of an example you walk into a pub then you have to prove that you’re a team there’s a world of difference between the pub asking who are you and then looking that up in some database by using some other attributes as the proxy for what they really want is your range which violate your privacy in all sorts of ways in fact the aid that was one of always one of our favorite examples because I’m one of the projects I will talk with that too I remember one of the examples that was given was those driving licence scanning machines they use it bars in the US there’s 32 states now that the mag stripes on the driving licenses so when you go into a bar they get you to scan your driving license or a car dealership to see whether you’re over 21 35 whatevers get a drink and there was a very very famous experiment that we’ve done sometimes in Washington somewhere not that in Washington state somewhere I can’t really were and whether he was they wired up the carding machine to a display over the door right so people would walk in through the door into the bar and they had to swipe their driving license prove they’re over 80 2135 a light goes on they walk through meanwhile the machine has read all the other data off the driving license make know stuff like that and it’s displaying it above the door right so everybody comes in they swipe they go and get a drink and sit down and then they turn around to get horrified about all of the other personal data they’ve given up my wife comes from California and on the California driving licenses it only has a name age I guess high and wait my wife is kind of more of a target way it’s the state trying to kind of nudge you but imagine what a shock it was a bit when it’s kind of a haven’t sat down have a drink above the door it’s displaying people’s name ih home address I cannot height weight everything else about them there’s a world of difference between asking for the identity of something and asking for the entire point right you presenting a digital certificate which is cryptographically unfortunate which says that you are over 18 and entitled to come in to get a drink is a completely different proposition from identify and so I’m saying I I think if you’re going to start some work on trying to resolve this Internet of Things paradox I think the entitlement issue has the core of the solution my car can drive down the road is entitled to drive down my cat can go to the door what’s in time could go through my children can get the school meal they’re entitled to get and that sort of thing that’s very different from from tracking ideas so I hope I’ve left you with some Oh Maggie Beckett in there available to all good bookshops and probably some pretty poor ones as well but run don’t walk down to Amazon and all years of a copy of this immediately thanks very much for this hi Dave I think we’ll take just a very small number of questions because you’ve probably all heard or saw trolley drinks get my few minutes ago so there is some refreshment available outside but let’s see whether we have and I’m sure they will stick around for a little bit yeah is anybody else going to the etherium meet up immediately after this call yourself seekers are the truth and inquisitors so Oh your question it’s a big who does not brush it thanks was it that’s right that’s why we have to make it work for them too so so we have to find a legitimate way that Marks and Spencers can really pants in their way and my washing machine can bring my parents but you can’t my suspicion is see it’s something with my washing machine having to identify my pants then we get stuck whereas I think by doing something within tired ones we can sort of make it work so when the washing

machine interrogate to the pants the pants does say I’m patterns number one two three four five six the parents say here’s the attributes that you are washing machine are allowed to have right so when the washing machine queer is all it gets back is wash at 30 degrees centigrade I think about that have you murdered about the appliance because because when they interrogate it they can get many different stuff that they so works for them too but i would pay more for pipes that did that so i think i wouldn’t mind it doesn’t that limit the utility of of things because like what I’ve always had a thought you know when people like waffle about you know technology wonderful and and that they can tailor everything to me I’m going like well if that was just really i want to i want to be able to walk to Marks and Spencers right and without having to to reveal too much in spencer’s my height weight and whatever but I want to be able to query tags and I want all the stuff that is of my size you know when plus the you know my preferences no man-made fibers you know and in a particular car I want all that stuff to come hovering to me instead of like crawling around the floor you know turning the government inside out to read the label and kind of think so so just saying like only you know if I put that tiger that only I can read it I think so so for example we’ve done some work in a similar context about blind so for example you can imagine I’ll try use a non marks expensive example right I’ve got my British Airways card and I go get on plane so at that point my British Airways culture chip card my British Airways card generates a key essentially along with a random number that goes to british airways british airways digitally sign in i bring it back to the car they strip out the rapid number I’ve now got a toke which proves I’m a member of the British Airways executive club but no amount of cryptography in the world will reveal that it’s me I could just prove so I could I could get something from Marks and Spencers or anyone or whatever which says you know I’m this hi I’m this way I like these colors I don’t like that particular range of clothes but doesn’t reveal who i am right I know I agree I mean you’re raising legitimate concerns all I’m saying at this point is i think i think the germ of an idea that doing something bad things rests in importing this idea in time friends what I’m saying but I think it should go there should be a two to wait I know agree that mutual recognition work today and one brother large company getting picture library has announced that you can use their pictures and they have some absolutely fabulous lines all parts of the world professionally to take my professionals mahalo big check my game you play the offender you can put your English man cookie Radhika it was just like you know we were a thing yesterday in paris but not revealing too much about you we were thinking Paris yesterday under strict French law you’re not there’s no such thing as anonymous Wi-Fi right so you connect the Wi-Fi up comes a stream please enter your name address so i put in satoshi nakamoto email address no get a wacom here okay everyone’s happy security theater I think we can see think they look it in more with your address they look like they connect to other databases it’s always useful service I have a couple of spare Facebook identities that I’ve been building up over the last few years which I use in it’s always useful to have a spare Facebook doppelganger that you can use in these people believe Facebook perhaps you no idea why well anyway that’s what there are some interesting is on please one more and I just kind of think sometimes with the kind of line proposition and say what’s on offer our you know we’re coming we’ll be lighting you have all these kind of things presented to you but like it seems like this tons of chapter in there i also like your get a straight shot but will say your pants but you know maybe the other parts we like but we have to wash it out by 10 degrees and council speaking plain color code or whatever but I will only have a Washington point separate like everything else you just kind of go in together and I just kind of think a lot of it is and then your if you wash it something else your terms and conditions will be like and anyone avoid the kind of things that a lot of it but it seems in each unique instance it seems like yeah that would be an innovation but kind of all things together it’s a bit like overly be good game just have a take pill for general everyone for a miracle thousand the faculties but I don’t think I really have many people

now are like actually look at that I don’t want the only thing that people take away from this lecture to be the problem of being nagged by your underpants I mean it’s a real problem I don’t have an answer to that I told you right at the beginning I’m one of the technology guys so I’m connecting everything up and I think I can see some of the problems Mecca I’ve got a grain of an idea as to what the solution that I had no comfort for the technology 31 you know people long term well they said that about Google Glasses didn’t the mixture of pity and derision greets people wearing Google glasses told you I honestly I had no answer to prayer I mean I I think broadly speaking the Internet of Things is basically a pretty good idea if all the cars were connected up and all the cats were connected up then no cars will drive over my cat again and that would be a great fit but to make that work we have very security of this very lowest level and so the problem that’s bothering me at the moment is how could we make that bit of it work whether we want it or not that’s as your business school problemo that’s probably a good note to end on the mound so if we get thanked