AR-15 Podcast – Episode #120 – Are Pistol Caliber ARs Relevant When the SHTF?

the bandwidth for this episode of the ar15 podcast is sponsored by the firearms radio network firearms radio TV welcome to episode 120 of the ar-15 podcast i’m your host JW ramp and this is the podcast about your favorite black rifle this show us for you whether you’re building the first AR or you’ve been building a RS for years there’s something we can all do take our black rifle the next level just going to do a little intro here for our interview that we have read is going to be on here we’re also going to have a local FFL actually that has some experience with the topic so i just want to remind you all before you get going that Brownells helps makes this show possible they’ve got a one hundred percent lifetime satisfaction guarantee and they’re there for you anytime you have a problem like when Reed can’t remove those taper pins from his new barrel so we are highlighting the Brownells edge program lately this is very similar to amazon prime and it offers you free standard shipping on all orders it gives you discounts on two day and overnight shipping gives you free return shipping just in case you have a problem or if you want to change out an item and there’s also some special members-only discounts and offers that they are giving to edge program members so it’s a program that you sign up for you pay an annual fee and you get all sorts of benefits especially if you’re a frequent shopper of Brownells if you’re looking for ar-15 parts visit ar-15 slash parts and that will offend you right on over to Brownells so let’s move on to the interview we’ve got read and Corey from CD s arms and our quarry is an FFL 07 SOT to in the Pittsburgh area here I shoot with him all the time and he is always bringing some awesome toys to the range read I know is going to be excited to pick his brain about the whole FFL process I don’t know if we can get into that this time but would definitely definitely bring that topic up in the future we’re actually going to discuss pistol caliber ARS and their application maybe in sort of the shtf end of the world sort of a situation there’s some some aspects of caliber parody and may be reduced sound signature there’s some really interesting characteristics of going with a pistol caliber in the AR platform so there are some specific kind of things that you got to consider if you’re going to do a build and definitely a ton of options out there so we’re going to discuss that with Corey and see what he thinks we’re back from our break and we’d like to welcome Corey and he is from CD s two arms a good friend and associate of JW and JW his spoken highly of them so that we don’t have to personally bet him while he comes on the show but you ever whenever we hit the range core is always the one that’s pulling machine gun after machine gun out of the back of his truck maybe that’s the guy to know to range yeah there’s always a crab when he’s setting up like the m2hb or something land on the tripod everyone’s like are you allowed to shoot that at this range why else would you go to the range absolutely thanks for having me guys tonight we’re going to talk about pistol caliber ARS a topic at a quarry has some some depth in but we’re we’re going to frame this in terms of what’s the relevance of a pistol caliber AR when the dupe hits the fan so let’s start off with a kind of a definition how do we define this caliber or this category of pistol caliber a ours Corey do you have a kind of a concrete idea in your head about how you would categorize these firearms I mean they’re pretty support so your normal ar-15 style rifle only their chambered in a sub caliber I like a normal nine your 40 or 45 something like that nature and generally I mean least from my experience most people were going with a shorter barrel they want something handy light I you have increased capacity the magazine and some you know basically better better ballistic and shoot ability than your handgun so

the the 45 caliber AR came brings like 458 SOCOM and the 40 what is a 45 Bushmaster for petty bullsh√°√° 450 Bushmaster would you consider those pistol caliber ARS or is that more of a 45 caliber slug in a rifle cartridge I think that’s tough clean more of a rifle cartridge their lot higher pressure lot of butter ballistics so we’re talking exclusively a pistol caliber you would find in a routinely available pistol inside your gun safe in chambered na na our style platform line alright correct you’re like Corey mentioned it seems like most guys like to take these the sbr rep whether they use a lower that they already have a stamp for whether they kind of do the wait for for a new build but it seems like guys tend to kind of lean towards the shorter barrel so I’m not sure what a common length though is a woody Tennessee core like a 55 inch range they like a pen inch range because if you look at the data I mean have a longer barrel of a pistol cartridge you generally don’t gain much in terms of velocity or ballistics so doesn’t quite make sense to go to the longer barrel unless you want to stay we know but having to pay your stamp and you want the cheapest possible route but you know you see more usability on the rifle by going shorter there it seems like a lot of guys do the whole extended rail and tucking a suppressor underneath it sort of federally so how do pistol caliber AR is different from regular antlers well you definitely have dedicated barrel yeah special tea bags for it you have to have a different type of mag well to fit those mags and you also have a different type of bolt bolt carrier type of operating system and well they’re generally going to be a blowback design instead of a directed pigeon with a locking bolt like you have a normal AR I mean so you do uh some diff was there but you know otherwise you know a lot of your accessories and stuff going to be the same you know basically your turn over what what differ when I were talking about this a little while ago you mentioned that your buffer system actually has to be stronger than it does on a two to three yeah certainly like a 9-mil for example uses a much heavier buffer it uses like a three or four ounce buffer where you’re a ours are like a you know one and a half or two ounce buffered so you have a lot of extra weight there because it’s a blowback system so that bolt has to stay locked on the on the round in the chamber for the longer to bleed off that pressure so it has to have heavier buffer lone wolf distributors gave me a call and sent out an upper chambered in 357 sig we’ve discussed with in evaluating the rifle and they gave us a green light to talk about it but in talking with them about the 40 and the 357 sig conversion or calibers that they’re chambering those uppers in they brought it to my attention that they were having some deformation of their buffers because they were striking the back of the buffer tube so hard I’m going that’s a pretty you know non malleable polymer tip there and have that kind of deformation kind of indicated to me that there must be some pretty severe forces and the you know completion of that cycle as well not just keeping that bolt up against the bolt face but you know when those rounder basically it’s direct blow back we don’t have the bleed off an expansion of any gas and that di or you know other considerations in a piston system when there must be some really intense you know point forces there when those rounds go off yeah certainly if you think about it like a pistol you look at pistols all your most your pistols you know biggest blowback collars and you’re like a 389 millimeter you don’t see much blow back on a pistol because in order to contain that pressure you’d have to have like a two pound slide something ridiculous that’s why the pistols are gonna be like a locking block the recoil system or some other thing that’s going to delay that slide from you know flying right back so that’s the same same thing you have to have some serious weight that’s why you longer stroke on that bolt the idea the spring in the buffer to really help that but yeah I can definitely see it battering out like a hammer over time yeah Justin counterintuitive to me at first so that totally makes sense now why on a DI gun you can really tune how much gas gets used in your operating cycle but with the blowback it’s just it’s all gone bad right orth every time so um you know when we talk about a pistol caliber a

are in a situation where it might be relevant because of hard times crisis Armageddon apocalypse the zombie uprising or you know pick your own you know horrible into the world poison I think that there are some things that land the pistol caliber platform to the consideration and that you know at you know kind of out of hand you know wave off of the consideration just isn’t really relevant and you know we kind of had a chance to talk about this but I think that for me the biggest value is that now instead of having multiple calibers you only have one instead of having to scrounge for two different calibers to keep yourself running you have one and I say that in terms of you know I don’t think that you should have a rifle and not have a pistol I don’t think you should have a pistol not have a rifle but certainly if I have my you know epistle of choice with me it’s a 357 sig and my ARS are all you know 556 300 blackout through LA there’s no cross compatibility at all so to me and it’s kind of like the old Wild West approach you know have your six gun and you know what was it I like the long haul the 45 colt so you know a lever-action chambered in 45 colt just seems to me to be a pretty good matchup as a pairing so i think that’s a great opportunity to lighten your load and eliminate some headaches yeah for sure I mean you can probably carry a lot more nine than you can 556 to I mean that’s what I carry my 92 the range is just in bulk in like pop where bins so you can carry more with you probably the the whole idea of having parity between your platforms I think there’s a lot to be said for that I certainly agree and the big thing for me I would add to this as a magazine commonality is huge you play your cards right and you do something that uses glock mags for example that works out great and even if you think like you go away for the AR platform second you got something like the Kriss vector that uses Glock 21 mags you can carry Sam Maggs for your carbine or your sub gun as you do for your your duty pistol or something like the kel-tec sub 2000 even it uses glock mags beretta mags something like that it’s great to have got the load one type of mag and have extras for your you know 10 you use yeah I’ve got a buddy who’s been looking at that sub 2000 a lots because it’d just be a great great little gun to throw in the car and if you wanted to throws his hand gun mags in it I mean that that’s right there exactly they also have 33 rounders hey great work working about now people tend to talk about engagement distances in our kind of theoretical SHTF situation here obviously there’s different situations that you could come up with in your mind but the common engagement distance is I mean they’re probably going to be within 50 yards unless you’re up in a clock tower somewhere or defending your end of the world hideaway right so I mean getting a big big strong rifle cartridge maybe you’re not going to be stretching it out for 500 yards so running a pistol pistol caliber maybe it still does have enough knockdown power and a faq your see to put foot hits on targets within that typical kind of engagement distance right you know I think another thing to consider is if you’re going to be using a pistol caliber you know in a weapon I think you’re going to be better off using it in a rifle platform then you are pistol platform simply because of the ability to shoulder the weapon brace the weapon longer citrate is I think that there are more points of controllability and manipulation that lend the platform or lend the use of the cartridge to more accurate fire when it’s in an AR platform as opposed to a pistol and you know I’m not a slouch with a pistol but I tell you what you know I can do a whole lot better with a rifle every single time oh and especially if you’re

somebody like Cory who everyone every gun that you’ve got is full auto I mean that that g18 is a whole lot easier to fire with the stock on it that certainly is and that was going to be one of next points was you know you look at it the submachine gun is kind of a game changer in terms of you know think of military uses around the world and police uses I mean there’s a huge advantage of that after you know you need a tobacco World War days with you know having these short compact Leiter Andy weapons that were maneuverable they had you know good clothes in stopping power with these you know basically you know hangar drops right um surprise ability yeah that’s when I had one there I mean you can you can run a can on your 556 but you really still want to have those earplugs in it’s it’s going to cut the ball down but those suckers still crack when they’re running down reach subsonic 556 it’s it’s really tough to get something that little run in your gun so I guess that’s why blackouts there and yeah I mean at that point ballistically you got a 50 grand bullet and so so a pistol caliber like a 45 that’s going to be coming out subsonic to begin with but still have two hundred some odd grains of oomph behind it I’m thinking might be a little quieter a little sneakier something that you definitely have a lot of fun with at the range because everybody can take their ears off that’s definitely good point you know I think that this may not necessarily be accurate so your mileage may vary but you know I’m seeing a lot more pistol powder on the shelves at my local gun stores that I am seeing the really you know sought-after rifle powders and so you know I’m just trying to draw parallel there that you know it may be the case that you can find your reloads or the components to reload a little easier if it’s a pistol caliber I mean consider 9-millimeter there is probably i don’t remember there ever being a shortage of nine-millimeter projectiles even through the worst of the last four years I mean do you guys concur or am I just like an you know Nirvana of reloading I agree I’m not a reloader but as you know from what I’ve seen I definitely agree with them and so if you’re going to be shooting a 9 millimeter the 115 grain hundred twenty-four grain if you never run out hey that’s a pretty darn good thing pistol powders being available you know if you’re just looking at basic run-of-the-mill pistol powder because you’re not trying to compete or to something special i mean i don’t think the nine is a cartridge that is expecting you know super premium powder in order for it to function perfectly so I mean I think that’s the thing that lends itself to the attractive side of why you’d want to consider it and you know JW did point out that when you are reloading you know work on the brass is a whole lot less complicated and a lot of the pistol calibers oh yeah you really don’t see people trimming 9ml too often you just kind of load it load it till it doesn’t run and then get some more breaths now I’m what about ammunition availability you once again I yeah I mean I remember the shelves being bare but i think the pistol stuff was the first stuff to come back and I agree and I think even now you can go into any ending or a small mom and pop shop you know middle of nowhere to to walmart to wherever and everyone’s gonna have you know handgun rounds they’re not going to have you know three her black out i’m not going to have you know 65 you know some kind of weird on ball 68 caliber or something like that but there wasn’t have 9 45 40 even it’s stuff like that so Colin yeah and you know I think that if there was kind of a inventory depletion it was neat jerk I don’t know that we typically see that when I mean let’s say the government is going to be going after the 556 ammunition I don’t know that that makes people go out and buy 9 I mean it makes them go out and buy you no more you know 55 grand in 66

train and 77 grain you know ar mo but you know I don’t remember the the shelves being emptied of nine millimeter and 45 and 40 but you know so I’m just thinking that it tends to be in that realm of ordinary enough to not really attract attention and so if ammunition is going to start getting scarce I think that’s the last to go hopefully you’re the first to start making it go as opposed to the opposite but you know what do you think guys are there any other things that would make the pistol caliber a are a good choice in any of our common apocalyptic nightmares I guess kind of related to what I was saying about the suppress ability is like barrier to entry or just sort of like a approachability sort of aspect getting a new shooter to fire 556 is tougher I think then to hand them a sub gun or something like that it’s a lot louder people are afraid of recoil the bullet itself though the loaded round looks a whole lot less threatening when it’s a nine mil so I think there’s something to be said for introducing new shooters on a sub cal gun like this just it’s a little less threatening for the the new shooter you know I think that if you’re going to talk about it in terms of worst case scenario you need something that really isn’t going to be difficult to put the hands of whoever needs it to be putting their hands so that can be effective with it and you know that’s an excellent point JW so let’s talk about some of the drawbacks you know I think the thing that first really occurred to me is that there is no long distance reach now just like we talked about you know gagement distances you know all that’s well and good but you know they teach US Marines to shoot at the 500 meters for a reason it’s because we can and we’re good but I’m just saying what was that phone but up recently read how long has it been since you signed on with the it’s been 28 years since I could run the three miles in 18 minutes but it was like last week when I shot that you know wings off and mad at a hundred yards so that being a perishable skill I have not let it perish all right but um but yeah like you were saying I might be able to ping steel at a couple hundred yards but how much how much ass is actually behind that cartridge because it’s it’s really kind of petering out when you get that far right certainly you know and what about diminished punch I mean we talked about you know uh foot-pounds of energy you know and you’ll hear the people tell you how much energy you need to have here people tell you how really you know it doesn’t matter how much you have as long as what you hit is the right spot with what you have but you know I’m kind of like a big fan of the old Schwarzkopf you know shock and awe you know I can you know drill an ICBM into you then why do I want to mess around with artillery you know if I can do artillery why do I want to mess around with the mortar you know it’s you know it’s all scalable but you know that 308 is a heck of a caliber and you know I don’t know that you’re ever going to get that kind of punch out of anything coming out of the pistol caliber rifle but then when is that overkill oh it’s never over kill yeah yeah I think I think there’s that’s definitely true you people debate about different handgun calibers and which one’s got more knockdown and debating between number of rounds versus diameter of the rounds and compared to rifle they’re just little minor scuffles between people because it there’s no comparison there between a pistol Cal and a rifle Cal but what we’re talking about is something that meets all the kind of base criteria of something close in real maneuverable and so I think that that’s definitely a downside that you’re not getting kind of the lethality that you would none of those big rifle cartridges but that’s why you get a rifle Kel ar2 exactly well

I think that’s when you have your Sherpa carry in it so you know I think that a one thing to consider is that in some instances the changes to a rifle when making that selection or essentially permanent you know I can take a pistol caliber lower designed to fit Glock magazines it doesn’t matter how many AR uppers I put on it it’s never going to shoot 556 because it’s never going to feed the round and you’re going to have all sorts of issues because of that so in that instance it’s an essentially permanent decision you know the bolts can’t be interchange you know just like I can use the bolt on my AR and 556 to run you know all of my you know 300 blackout barrels of course I have to change barrel but saying bolt so I mean I think that’s a drawback because you really have a little more latitude in the traditionally our platform with some of these choices yeah I mean if you had a 556 AR and you want to switch over to black out it’s what 100 200 bucks for a barrel switch it out and you’re good to go pop it into the sub sub Cal a our world it gets a little more involved there’s it’s not just a burrow so and you know these are some things Cory that you pointed out you know some of the conversions are a little finicky a little unreliable and that there’s an element of tuning and break-in for you to get that consistent reliable function and then is that pretty Universal across your experience is it you know depending on the manufacturer jump tell me a little bit more about that I’d say love it depends on the manufacturer and whether you’re talking about a factory gun versus something you’re cobbling together I mean you definitely have some issue sometimes with like your buffer buffer spraying things like that and a little bit more finicky because you can’t really control as much as far as there’s a gas system to adjust something like that you’re you’re kind of at the mercy of of your buffer system and your bolt and stuff like that there’s also a lot of parts you know commonality and I guess you’d call it interchange so to speak there’s no real air 15 is more of a standard you can you know take company a’s Bowl care group drop it in there it usually works but with the subculture stuff you’d really have to buy all one brand or known good things there’s different changes you know things like that some of the bolts take a notched hammer versus a round hammer and little intricate things like that and if you’re not running the right parts you definitely have some issues you know so the 900 guns can even break your hammer and trigger pins I usually hammer pin so they have some pretty broke you know you know unlocking basically when they they cycle you know stuff like that so it is a little more finicky but it’s the price you pay i mean the the factory guns you do work pretty well and if you do your homework and put together a good good setup you’ll have a reliable gun right you also mention that in some of the aftermarket magazines you know we’re not talking about glock alike in that traditional cult and susie conversions sometimes there’s some reliability issues with your magazines and yes sir let me is it is it exactly the Coulter’s of others is the cold style i would say and then the colts tower are similar to lose emag there’s a place a metal form that makes the aftermarket mags warm and other places i mean you definitely have some quality issues with those i mean they’re cheaper man it’s one of those things I mean if you buy the factory quilt mags for you know 50 bucks apiece wherever they are you generally are fine but you know if you take the new by the ten-dollar mag sometimes you have some issues with yeah it’s just since aim with most everything you know if you use Glock factory mags or smith wesson factory managers or you’re fine but you go and get some weird made in korea mags that has no special deal then you know you can ask missions with him for sure right well and i guess the last drawback is because we’re not dealing with the the cleaner piston or the more controllable di you basically thrown all of your discharge right in the middle of your chamber when you’re cycling your rifle and so the indication is is that they’re pretty darn dirty to shoot right yeah I mean in my experience especially run suppress the whole inside of your upper you know the whole chamber everywhere even down inside your lower is just caked in

carbon you know sort everywhere you know w required more clean up things like that but you know most the time you’re not going out there for any kind of marathon brain session of putting thousands through where it’s going to cause a actual reliability issue but it’s definitely a little more of a chore to clean right well I think that pretty much covers a lot of the big ones if you guys have anything to add to that any drawbacks now I think we’ve covered it though alright well you know I think we kind of touched on it and it’s not really so much a drawback I want to focus on but I want to try to identify how some of the components are different so that we can understand how non-standard a pistol caliber ARS so let’s talk about cost compatibility issues I think first and foremost you’ve got your mag well magazine compatibility between platforms in the purpose-built lowers you’re never going to stick in a hour mag in that well but there’s also no single choice among pistol magazines that works in the mall like and ir magazine will work at all ordinarily a uppers or lowers so i think that that’s a pretty big cross kampala t compatibility issue although corey pointed out to us that in some of the conversion kits lower receivers are converted from standard traditional 556 lowers by insertion of a mag well block and you said that there are some variances in the way that they’re installed corey but fundamentally it’s the same purpose to restrict that mag well opening down to whatever magazine shape it is you’re going to use right yes certainly and i mean for example here I do have a gun here it’s this is a nine-millimeter AR that I built ice on a standard 556 lower this one you can see a kind of view there this is the magwell block inside standard mag well that makes the smaller cold at the magazine fits in so you have this one takes the cold style mags which are real similar to an Uzi mag and they install in there in the magwell block now there are magma blocks some of them and saw from the bottom some install for the top and depending upon how they’re configured some of them are require removal of your your votes talk here while others would not so the ones that required with Moustakas a little bit more of a semi-permanent install but you’re not going to take this thing to the range and you know knock out your roll pin take out your full swap every time you want to swap your mag block in and out this is definitely more of a more of a specialty setup now there are some that they do install from the top and are held in place essentially by the upper and those are a little bit you know more modular in terms of swap and stuff back and forth but really depends what you want I mean generally the ones that are more dedicated seem like they work better so that’s why something looking to to write you know certainly when we’re talking about the the operation of the the rifle with the pistol calibers we’re essentially talking about direct blow back which is a completely different universe from a DI or a piston gun and so you know being my entire life almost exclusively an AR guy when it comes to rifles when I got this lone wolf testbed here to see a rifle in an AR form that didn’t have a gas block didn’t have a gas tube basically had a you know an opening in the upper that was plugged it was kind of a foreign thing and the knee-jerk is will they forgot something but no I mean that’s it right that’s how it works and all these pistol caliber lowers so you’re not going to have all of those and so I don’t know how easy it would be to go back you’d have to figure out a way tap your barrel that’s for sure if you were going to convert what you had but I mean that just there’s no real way to to interchange those parts you’re kind of stuck with what you have aren’t you yeah certainly and I mean one thing too I mean you go think as well this blowback so much simpler system so you’re missing parts obviously and you have a fixed ejector for example you’re usually building for the mag block I mean there’s a lot of different you know differences of physically and then the guns so you’re definitely not going to change back very quickly put it that way so and these are generally dedicated guns and I mean to me that’s a good thing hey the more day or is the merrier

right right well I mean I think that if we’re up to all the guys on the show would be you know like Caddyshack we’d show up with a golf bag full of ARS I’m waiting my wait a minute I’ve got one in here for this purpose i’m sure just give me a section that’s the plan and let’s be honest i miei are lawyers or cheap as they are right now you know why not make a dedicated rifle yeah I don’t know you’re not but not putting out that much more money to have something that is one an extra gun and two it’s it’s just much better to do it that way and not have to worry about certain things back and forth well and you know I think that to the degree that we’re talking about that very specific point you know we’re not talking about the choice of a pistol caliber AR when everything is going to you know you know hell in a handbasket and we’re talking about somebody that says I’m going to prepare I’m going to plan ahead i’m going to make a choice because it makes sense for me for where I am what my resources are you know we’re just trying to talk about the pistol caliber AR in terms of something to not dismiss out of hand but to add it back to your thought process and think of it so you’re right you know the prices are relatively cheap right now now would be a great time to invest in a conversion kit or to go out and find a manufacturer who’s going to build a rifle if you’re not up to that task and get the platform you know under your control so that you can really evaluate it for that purpose yeah I certainly agree i mean if you look at most guys have several aortas it is most people have left quarks laying around from previous builds that you know you’re halfway halfway there to build a new gun as it is so I mean I the only real advantage I see they’re doing a you know a bag block set up is if you already have a spare lower or something like that you want to use and by all means and that’s what i did this gone here i already had a post ample lower water lower so it was very simple to buy the mag low block and drop it in and experiment with that but you know what I rather have a dedicated Glock maglore yeah definitely that’s probably the next project is to do something like that it’s probably better to buy it dedicated lower not that much more expensive and have something that that is made to function that way now as far as the bolt carrier group and the bolt I mean we’re talking about a pretty substantial departure from what we know in terms of are so you know my my first examination of the bolt in the pistol caliber AR that I have basically you know you get over that shock of when I wedding there’s no bolt in here it’s just this bolt carrier that has this you know squirt off phase what is that all about so I mean once again between the two platforms there’s no commonality in those parts right oh yeah that definitely not much at all they’re dedicated bolt carrier groups and I mean no one thing will notice to man the never saw heavy that a bolt is embarrassing the 556 net thing is handy key it’s usually almost a solid piece of stock and does have the square off face and just you know has your extractor built in but not a whole lot else there’s there’s no gas tea or anything like that because there’s no no gas system it’s just a beefy chunk of steel that that the feed feeds the mo objects it’s totally different now as far as the hammers and cuz my first thought is that the triggers are pretty much untouched but sometimes the Hammers really have to be modified in order to work in the pistol calibers right right yeah depending on how you play your cards and what kind of a full care group you get you can go up at all standard a or lower parts that that’s normally fine but some of the bull care groups are going to have to use like a notched hammer are different things like that but I got real good luck with the cmmg bull care groups they they seem that they run pretty well and that their they work full auto they take normal rounded hammers or not stammers I believe they’ll take both so that’s great but yeah I wouldn’t want to back my someone to a quarter where I have to use some non-standard parts you know in the lower but that’s what I’ve been so tell me would a a hammer any of the modified hammers this specifically for a pistol caliber rifle would they also work in a standard 556 rifle without any modification some do not som some of those lost hammers will not work with 5 by 6 the bolt carrier group can’t tank off a hammer because cut so I mean it sounds to me like these are some really serious compatibility

issues that you know need to be taken into consideration though oh let’s kind of talk about terms of the rifles that are out there I’m handful of the pretty standard manufacturers so we’ve got Colt and from my understanding colt is kind of like the the genesis of the pistol caliber in an AR in terms of bringing it to life and bringing it out to the market does do either of you have any any different understanding now that’s definitely correct i think you know even from the early days Colt have made a 9-mil version you know an SMG I know the Department of Energy even used for a while these little weird short I think like a 7 or 8 inch barrel 9 MLA are you know they a 10.3 otro popular with law enforcement it as a submachine gun I mean there’s a real real basic I’m for stock you know a two hand guards and a you know even a to flash hider to real real basic look at like a mini on 16 or something yeah Ford and they definitely probably were the ones to bring this to the market and make it more popular for sure now among the rest of our companies here I see Olympic Arms and stag which just you know reaching back into antiquity I think that it’s almost like Colt they’ve always been there so well they may not be as you know they have as long as cult does mean both of those companies make pistol caliber rifles and I think both of them have a lot of good you know they’ve built up a lot of goodwill over the years with their brands and so I don’t know that you can go wrong with either of those and I’m less familiar with the Olympic that I am stag but you know I still I don’t I don’t your people just chew an Olympic up these days I would agree you’ve mentioned that you have a lot of experience with the cmmg product so what are your thoughts about the stuff that they’ve got running through their their doors I think so um do you think they have a little bit bigger selection of mine no guns in most places do you know now i believe almost all our guns are still using mag block and i’ll think they might be making dedicated lower now but you know they they do have a pretty good selection of barrels and like i’ve used their bolt carrier groups a lot and they seem like they hold up pretty well and they’ll work reliable so everybody out of them I think rock river arms I’ve always been really pleased with the products that I’ve had it bears I don’t have any experience with their LA or nine but you know once again a pretty solid company and and I have not heard anything negative you know I have you know handled the lone wolf distributors lowers and now that you know I’ve got this in my hand I’ve been able to get it out and you know put it through its paces a little bit but have you had any experience with those lone wolf products Corey jwi I unfortunately have not yet i would like to but I’m not yes if they’re one of the guys that do those dedicated Glock lowers and everything so mm-hmm I think that’d be a great option if you want to do a a dedicated buildings you know and I guess that’s the interesting progression in the manufacturing thought and I don’t know where the rest of the industry is but you know when you think about it the penetration in the market that Glock has you know why wouldn’t you choose Glock magazines to form the basis of how you’re going to feed your pistol caliber hey Michael I whole heartedly agree because I’m a big lock fan myself and the Glock magazines are one of the reasons why the big lock bandages their magazines are outstanding there are priced well and they perform very very good so I think that’s certainly important like I said I’d not Glock mag lowers we’ve one of my next projects for a nominal I pay our well so I think that pretty much covers two big guys the 800-pound gorillas I’m sure there’s you know dozens of other companies that are putting products out on the market and certainly we don’t want to offend but we’re going to move on to the conversion component here and you know Cory I think this really does kind of lent itself to your expertise so um why don’t we just follow your lead through these bullet points and and you know talk to us about

the things that come to mind when we talk about conversions ok that sounds great so basically the conversion I mean you’re looking at at the minimum you have a dedicated barrel you have a dedicated mag block or dedicated lower you have that dedicated bolt carrier group and yes some kind of a basically you know your buffer system for it that’s something different over traditional they are I’ve you already discussed so your conversion has to have at least those minimum parts to the even function magazines a lot for up magazines that that’s important got to be able to feed the rifle butt so that’s what you’re looking at there now that there’s definitely different options and you know specially the mag blocks you have like I’m just selling before you have the ones that install from the top one of the stock on the bottom you know some were made a plastic even cheap point your polymer like I think promag even makes a like I make a forty-dollar maglock mostly though you’re going to pay you know how to earn some bucks for their quality units um you know they have the ejector machined in and they have a feed ramp and they have that so it’s a little bit different thanks for that or you know you’re gonna pay or dedicated lower you know assembly that has the magwell built in right and Cory on the mag block the magwell blocks hey is there a point where you need to be on these is there you know you know we talk in terms of barrels in terms of other parts about you know what kind of a minimum acceptable you know level of quality or performance shilla can add you know you mentioned plastic not well blocks i’m not a big plastic kind of guy um but are they okay I mean are we looking you need to have aluminum is or are there other materials being used you want to seek out before you look at plastic well what are the kind of things that your experience tells you when making a conversion I’d say it’d be smart to go to Luminum my block it better better precision the machining you know better tolerances you know probably arguably a long longer where you know things like that I mean there are differences I mean certain mag blocks aren’t it won’t be beveled where you start the mag you know I’ve heard horror stories of some just having terrible tolerances like on that your ejector for example I mean the that you just have constant you know color to eject just you guys that that’s machine just a little bit off yeah the case gets stuck in the upper a lot of motive horse words like that I mean your feed ramp has to be has to be there has to be compatible with your barrel enough that it’s going to push the bullet in properly and you know there’s definitely some stuff to look into that’s why I kind of recommend probably sticking with a certain brand I know their parts are pretty compatible certainly over over picking you know the cheapest mag block and the cheapest barrel and this and that and try to toss it together hope it works definitely forming some issues I mean like I said before with ar-15s everything’s pretty standardized and you can go a company XY and Z and almost always your rifles going to kind of function you know but with these types of guns you know you definitely don’t have that kind of leeway just because of the components being little more specialized there’s no no one standard everyone’s going to follow in terms of making apart so you make sure they work so we kind of touched on the whole issue of magazines and the having Glock kind of it is trending is the the top of the heap there let’s talk about the the bolt carrier groups you know is that one of those things where you basically have to decide on where your barrels coming from and you know where your lower components are coming from to figure out which bolt carrier group you’re going to use I think most vulgar groups are pretty similar I think everybody crush coffees the old style to me so I think you’re pretty good there I just I know there is there’s a ramp versus an off ramp I won’t care basically and that doesn’t fluent your pic of your hammer companies like that like so that’s that’s why i have i’ve used o cmmg on on most of those builds because they are the most impossible for I’ve seen with a mishmash parts now if you’re going to basically entertain a conversion by just going out and buying an upper you know assuming that we’ve got the lower taken care of are you going to have any concerns when they’re mated I mean is there enough variation between the manufacturers of one upper versus another upper and a 9-millimeter that you’re going to have to have a different thought process and play when you build your lower no I think it’d be fun I mean basically we had an upward you would just need your your mag well block and in your different buffer and those were both you know arguably drop in pieces with a little bit of knowledge with that stuff

and skill I mean it’s depends upon the magma block and how the call that is installed yeah it’s pretty pretty simple yeah i mean the upper if you have the operating that you know the barrel on the bull kirby work together properly as they should and you know it should be pretty simple dropping and as far as your your hammer you you’re going to be aware if you’re going this route where you need to make your hammer choice in terms of what up or you’re going to buy correct i would slowly think so yes another thing i’d probably do to make myself feel warm and fuzzy as i’d probably put like those K&S anti-rotation pins for the trigger and hammer just the he throws up you’ll see a lot less broken pins lift those and in the factory air 15 feels like pins leo cannon will break hmm okay um are there any things when it comes to a conversion that we haven’t really kind of touched on here all I can really think of it basic just home accent and pick a style magnet you want then and you know pick a compatible block and kind of go from there it’s just kind of a domino effect once you’ve made the first choice the rest and fall into place I certainly think so so we’ve got three parts manufacturers listed and basically these are kind of the the bread and butter so we’ve got palmetto state armory we’ve got Brownells we’re big fans and we’ve got cmmg and you know these guys have a lot of breadth and depth when it comes to the firearms world and with two of them very very much more so in the AR world than in any other so is there any need would you think to need to go outside of the these heavyweights here is there someone out there who is the go-to guy for you know the upper end or some you know super tier and pistol caliber ARS that isn’t listed or is it really just a function of these are kind of like the you know big dogs on the block I think they cover most of the market I mean unless you want some specialty lowers that are dedicated macro blocks you got stuff like that quarter circle ten let’s make a neat block I come out of one’s you have gone back to other places like for example that MGI with their swappable well lowers and then I mean that’s a lone wolf if you want dedicated Glock I mean you know besides places like that who make their own especially lower you don’t really see many places that actually sell their own branded you know bulker groups I know yankee hill machine that they’re making barrels and stuff like that I mean that are better fine but I really see a whole other places that really are selling us stuff and I mean brownells for example they have a pretty good selection of all those parts and I what blocks and barrels and their components well that’s Austin what I think we’ve covered all the basics the nuts and bolts of it all there are there any takeaways here well it seems like it could be an interesting build not something that you want to go into thinking that oh I’ll just get another upper for my AR but it’s going to be something a little more involved in that there’s some decisions to be made as far as mad compatibility and whether you want to just buy a whole gone or do some sort of conversion with a lower that you already have but there’s it’s it’s still just as kind of modifiable just like any other part of the AR world you can make choices about each component and you can decide to buy one right off the right off the gun shop wolf right yeah that’s why I like about the AR the most in general is how I modular they are commits great you can bring that modularity to these sub caliper platforms and I mean the pistol caliber AR is another tool for your toolbox and its job you mentioned earlier in the show you know it’s great for newer shooters or plinking at the range you can bring you know one type of ammo and you know it’s usually cheaper more available and you can have yourself a lot of fun with it and also it’s a very valuable tool in terms of you know if shtf you never never know up workout absolutely we know I would tend to agree with you and I don’t know that I can add anymore to the discussion you know what it comes down to it I think maybe keeping a pistol caliber a are on hand is a worthy thing to strive for so i think i would definitely encourage

anybody i know to go out and get one well hey we got a couple listeners that tune in to our show on a regular basis how could they find out what what sort of stuff that you you’re up to and and how you could help them Cory and I actually give us a little background on yourself Cory I basically i love all types of guns especially ar-15s i’m a cold certified AR armor and a glock armorer and i basically i run a restaurant business here around pittsburgh called CD s arms I do mostly NFA cells lot of silencers are sure pellet rifles machine guns serval shotguns things like that and I do a lot of custom a our bills I’d say you know several hundred year at least you know for local local guides and people on the country we’re looking for different oddball calibers you know some some cup sub calibers professor normal rifles but that’s generally what I do there’s a lot a lot of things like that I really love the AR and I like customizing for people now do you have let go absent yeah web store do you do rentals anything like that I don’t have a web store not really so much online he’s got some gun broker stuff here and there mostly local but yeah I do five stuff to I do some rentals for machine guns and what about training on stuff like that weapons familiarization for some of the full audio stuff I do a lot of that stuff locally but that’s really at mostly mostly NFA cells and erica p milks or like two strongest points today and if someone wanted to get in touch with you for some of those purposes we’re with vega my website it’s a CD s arms calm Charlie Delta Sierra a rms calm all right awesome anything else JW that’s all I got man all right well then I guess we’ll take a break and then we’ll be right back to finish up our show stay tuned alright great interview like I was saying at the top we will definitely have to have Corey on again to talk about the joys of being a manufacturer of all things stamp related he’s he’s got some interesting capabilities over there as far as being able to make machine guns and SB ours and things like that so well we’ll be talking to him again in the future I’m sure hey Otis technology gave read a whole bin of cleaning kits to give away I don’t think Reed’s snatched any for himself yet because we’ve been so busy giving them out and this week did our drawing we had a whole bunch of likes on our Facebook page that we drew from and this week’s winner is Nathan Sanders so we’re going to get in touch with Nathan and give him I guess a choice between either a two to three or a 308 cal cleaning kit and yeah we’ll send that on his way and and hopefully get some feedback as far as how Otis Otis’s new cleaning kits are our meeting his needs I’m sure he’s got some rifles sitting around that can use use a nice new cleaning kit so we’re going to be continuing to give away a whole host of ODIs tools and cleaning supplies either every week or every other week I’m not quite sure I know Anthony has the has the plan but yeah this week Nathan one so we’ll get in touch with them and get that sent out as far as feedback I grabbed a couple things here I’ll just go over them briefly on my own there’s a few that I want to run by the rest of the hosts and maybe have a little discussion about so I’ll save save a few for next week when everybody else is on first here dan V he says I’d like to search old episodes but you don’t have a search function on your website please consider adding one the next time you’re tweaking your page thanks and I’m going to note here from read that we do have a search function now so that may have been in direct as a result of Dan’s feedback but yeah there’s a search function there on the right in the sidebar if you scroll quite a ways down you can search the page Joel says I’m not sure if this is the best way to send feedback in a question that said thank thank you for this episode well we got it so it worked I’d already discovered eighty percent arms due to a comment that you’ve made and a friend that has nearly completed in eighty percent AR build I know you’d mentioned changes to ATF policy from what I understand I can build an eighty percent AR but after I die this creates issues for my son who would end up with any guns if this is true what a gun trust make this easier

in this circumstance I think a gun trust makes a whole host of issues like this a lot easier as far as end-of-life planning there’s hopefully you’re going to have a whole safe guns to pass on to your loved ones and a lot of people just don’t really know what to do with those what the legal way of dealing with them is whether you can just pull them out of the safe and take them home or whether you have to do some sort of transfer background check setting up a gun trust and having your descendants or just trusted friends people that you are close with that you want to pass these items on to having them be a part of that trust can make all those end-of-life decisions so much easier for your loved ones that are going to be dealing with your affairs in your state so going down the gun trust route is really a great option for those sorts of issues I know Reed is a huge proponent of running questions like that by an actual legit lawyer rather than just kind of filling out a form online maybe like you would for an NFA trust because there’s a lot of specific instances like that as far as the end of life issues that you could write into it that would make it a whole lot easier for your loved ones so yeah I think going going the gun trust route be a great decision ken here says I recently discovered your podcast and want to listen to all of them ah that’s cool thank you I was able to download to episode 90 using iTunes I was able to download 264 using the web page I want to listen to episode 63 all the way back to number one I really wanted to listen to the range bag segment and that is where it stopped how do i get episodes 12 63 he also said PS i subscribe to your YouTube channel and left a five star review on iTunes well thanks can that feedback is really important to us so thanks for leaving that I am going to check with Jake and read the guys that have been on the show the entire time and see how most people like to track down those shows those older shows I just did a search on the web page and they’re listed they have like a page for each one but I couldn’t seem to find the audio file so I’m going to run that one by the the team kind of behind the scenes and see where people are going for those episodes because I know there’s some really good content and it’s great when people take the effort the the time to go back and review some of those old shows because there’s a lot of things that that haven’t necessarily gone out of date since then like I said there’s a couple more here that I’m going to go over with the other guys Bob asked some questions about 458 SOCOM versus 450 Bushmaster that’s something I don’t really know much about so we’ll run if I read and Anthony and then DW was asking about 65 Grendel so we’ll definitely talk about some of those other calibers there I want to get you guys on well that’s it that’s it for this week if you guys would send us any questions or comments the feedback at ar-15 podcast com we’d love to feature them here on the show and discuss discuss our opinions or ideas give you feedback on your next build so just send that feedback right on him you can also send us a recorded voice mail you’re going to speak buttons people speak pipe plug in on the right hand side of the podcast website you can subscribe and listen to us for free in itunes or over on stitcher where you can also leave us reviews like so many of you you on a regular basis and those reviews health place our show higher and that help people find us and they’re looking for a show like this share your pictures with us over on instagram at ar-15 podcast tag your pictures with hashtag ar-15 podcast ar-15 podcast and now we’ll throw some in the show notes will share some on our Facebook page and we love seeing their builds and and what you do with them when you get taken to the range and 3-gun competition stuff like that instagram has been a great way to kind of get to get a view into the life of the listener follow us on google+ where you can watch us live plus / + ar-15 podcast check us out over at YouTube and Facebook just search for this ar-15 podcast and I think to find us remember we are part of the firearms radio network so there is a whole host of other shows there’s 12 or 15 nowadays on all sorts of different

topics having to do with things that would interest like-minded firearms enthusiasts whether it’s getting fit so that you can run around and do a 3-gun competition whether it is the long range bent on all of this really stretching things out and have an interviews with great precision shooters and companies there’s a whole bunch of shows up there that I’m sure you’d love to check out you visit firearms radio TV you can find your way to those remember like I said at the beginning there’s our Brownells affiliate link at AR 15 slash parts and if you use our amazon affiliate links over at firearms radio TV or our website ayo 15 podcast we get a little kick back on your purchase doesn’t cost you anything extra and it helps us cover our hosting with our file hosting fees we’re definitely not pulling in a salary or anything like that but the podcast does cost money to throw up on the internet so we very much appreciate when you take the extra time when you’re making a purchase to go through those links and help support the show with that I’m going to sign off here we will see you again next week and thanks so much for being a dedicated listener and leave some feedback get in touch talk you later this has been a production of the firearms radio network you can find more information at firearms radio TV