In the states or abroad no one’s safe from the Talkers of Fraud. in the States or abroad no one’s safe from the Talkers of Fraud the following goes beyond the show and beyond the gram to bring you all the fraud that’s fit to be uncovered this is the fraud cast and now here’s your fraud caster and the woman behind frauded by TLC on instagram Katrina thank you so much how does life mate and happy to once again welcome Hannah Kawa to the show back by popular demand thank you for being with us konnichiwa so before we get going don’t forget to check us out on instagram at frauded by TLC and on facebook just search for the fraud casters group and we’re having a lot of fun every Friday night on the Instagram it’s fraud and night live with yours truly it’s an hour-plus of live chat where we discuss all the things that have been happening that week and all of the T it’s a lot of fun and we hope to see you there it’s Friday at 9:30 Eastern coming up later on the show we have an interview with Raven who’s Ben’s brother of Ben and makini and he’s going to be spilling all the tea so you won’t want to miss that and with all that out of the way Hannah Khalid let’s get started so we are starting a new segment today called Katrina’s courts where I will evaluate the evidence of a particular piece of news or an item a news item or a gossip item and evaluate the evidence and make a ruling as to whether it’s fraud or not fraud or true or not true and we don’t have any good sound effects for this yet so bear with us but we need like the People’s Court right we need the music dududududu no that’s like mission impossible I have no idea so on this inaugural edition of Katrina’s court we bring to you the case of Michael’s visa and we’re talking about Michael of Michael and Angela Michael and this is Angela from Hazlehurst Georgia Michael from Nigeria mm-hmm and so I had come across some evidence that a source gave me some information that said that Michael’s visa was denied now yeah so poor Michael feel like if everybody on the show like he’s the one that deserves it oh dude he has gone through so much traffic can you just give it to him for like all the sadness he he’s endured all the cake in his face only cake all the pictures he had to take down off of Facebook oh my god the boats he couldn’t write on all the boat rides out on so in so this is what I was presented with was I have a source that was has generally been very reliable my source inside production tell me that Michael did not get his visa now other sources other people started I saw I posted this on my Instagram on frauded by TLC I did say that I have not been able to confirm this and this is because the information has only come to me via this one source I do not have independent verification about this and about whether or not the visa was denied or not so that source has always been reliable in the past so I don’t have any reason to think that it might be incorrect but we I don’t have any verification so when I posted that information a lot of other people started posting that he was actually in Georgia and right well so we’ve got the evidence that this is the evidence that’s presented we had a lot of people say my stepkids family lives near there and they’ve seen him I said okay we’ll get pictures send him to me because Hazlehurst is a real small town right if Michael was there somebody would have gotten a picture of this right you would hope so you know like Angela and Darcy both are really good at not having anything leaked out with their storylines so maybe she’s like locked him in the pantry shipped him in and just kind of like in the dark of the night and a blanket pull them in this hasn’t let him outside of the house I’m holding the holding of you so versed I’m getting my money Michael but on the other hand I do have other sources coming to me one who let me see if I can get this relation

right so this person has a nephew that was formerly married to one of Angela’s daughters I don’t know which one I don’t know if it’s which daughter I think that’s the relation it’s the south come on I don’t know these things and sorry you guys don’t have me so I have a lot of people I have I have that source as well as additional sources that live in the town that have come to me and say no we’ve never seen him the one that was formally related to the family has said Michael is not here they’ve said definitively that Michael is not here so on the one hand we have my source of information my production source that has historically been accurate we have possible was related person saying definitively that Michael is not here on the other hand we have followers and people who listen and watch the show saying somebody told me they saw him now none of that is very accurate so I mean none of it is verified at this point you have one that’s more verifiable than others I have a trusted source and a person that has a close interact like a close relationship with the family that would know more so then say a person who lives down the street but a person who lives down the street may have seen them and told their friend but it’s again this is all just people saying this happened I haven’t seen pictures of him to prove that he’s here but of course we haven’t seen any pictures of him so we don’t know you know how do you prove that he’s not here right so at this point unfortunately I can’t make a ruling there’s insufficient evidence to make a final ruling on this I can’t make a definitive ruling whether or not he got his visa denied or not I’m inclined to believe that he did not that it got denied is where I would inclined be inclined to lean in favor of that evidence versus somebody who’s just this random person that I don’t know from anybody who with any kind of history or you know I don’t know who this person is and it’s their friend of a friend or relative of a relative or something that has seen them so until I see pictures at this point I’m going to tend to lean on the side of his visa was denied that’s Katrina’s court for you gamble down I wouldn’t I mean it’s so hard especially with that I I’m wondering if if it was denying I’m not gonna say why but it’s kind of like I know Nigeria is on less where it’s harder to get visas from I think they call it a high fun of the high fraud right countries so you already have that going against you and I don’t know how they analyzed the relationships you know there’s a lot of tough stuff to go over but I think more people would have leaked that he was over here then if he actually that’s kind of what I’m thinking I mean it’s a really small town and Angela and Michael together kind of make a statement when they’re out and about together especially the wedding mess she was planning like with DJ Doug that would be some doug has a pilot out there can you go find he’s out there he has a pilot that he did have you seen it think we I I’m not brave enough so I mean I think that if they were there somebody would have gotten a picture somebody would have seen them rather than this well my so-and-so knows somebody who lives near there and said that they’ve seen him out with kids but your theory about Angela hiding him in the pantry my you know kind of makes sense too I’m just I’m just saying like I could I could see both sides I could see them sneaking him in and just not letting him go out I don’t know there’s something weird about where they placed her within the season anyways how if you look at how they’re doing her story they’re like cramming a whole bunch in to this little tiny bright you know are they just trying to are they just trying to finish up her story because I know she’s kind of not becoming a fan fear it so yeah she was a fan favorite up until the tell-all last season where there was the oh yeah the fight but then the fight got like more so it got physical right so allegedly my source says it actually did I might end to believe that source everything else

they told me about the tell-all was accurate so yeah so so people then started they you know protesting and they there was petitions to keep her off because she’s at a beach she’s abusive and this and that I’m not gonna make any rulings on the Hat I mean the fact of the matter is she is on TV so she’s on the show we’re trying to you know figure out what’s happening there’s some there was some evidence that will not evidence there was somebody saying that she was brought on the show because this season is boring but we knew that she was going to come on before the season started so I don’t really probably already knew the season was boring I mean the producers were probably like really trying to squeeze what some kind of blood out of the rock that they were recorded and bring Angela back in may because I mean we knew before the season was announced that she was coming back on so you know I mean whether whether there’s not as much to their story because I mean that would make sense because if his visa was denied there’s not as much to their story especially on the show before then I earned 90-day fiance the actual one where they have the visa and are coming across so if they’re put inserting her now and maybe they don’t have a full storyline for her because his visa is denied yeah yeah I don’t know I would say he’s not here I would agree that okay so that’s our rule that’s too hard to hide you gotta learn about one’s right so that’s our ruling if you guys have evidence you want to present on rebuttal specifically pictures or anything like that feel free to hit us up i’m frauded by TLC on instagram or you can hit us up at the dump on stalkers of fraud comm all right so moving away from that I actually have an update we discussed last week penis gate right we hit the history books of penis gate and I just like you know I got a little update on that based on that story somebody decided to give me a story that I hadn’t heard yet and back this is about all of that same time well a little bit later this is about the same time Jonathan and Fernanda were breaking up and Jonathan was allegedly being kind of a fuck-boy and would get drunk and send out his dick pic pictures to people to women yeah allegedly allegedly and and my source my same source that told me that who was the recipient of one of these she bendy I mean him you know she’d been you know sliding in and do his DMS and stuff saw that he carried viagra Oh so you know that’s just my update you know what what are your thoughts say young ones usually will take Viagra so they can run the marathon harder but yes go to poundtown for a long time his heart’s gonna hate him yeah I mean there’s nothing to indicate that he has an actual dysfunction so if you sending them all right yeah I’m I’m gonna go with there’s no dysfunction and it’s just for for uh enhancement value shall we put it so you know that’s my penis Kate update not much to it sorry you guys I’m gonna get into the social media roundup here because there was a lot that happened this week and then we’re gonna go into sort of our meat and potatoes of the show but on our social media roundup let’s see what we have we have Evelyn of Cori and Evelyn scrubbed all traces of Laura from her Instagram page line Laura we know that Cori is back in Brazil with a Boleyn they’re filming again we think we’re pretty sure we’ve just got okay then of Ben and ichini you’re familiar with these people I think I know if you’re just joining us Ben is Hannah colwiz ex-husband she is the mother to Grayson yep so it’s just you might have some insight on this next social media roundup so Ben responded to someone in a Q&A and his stories where he said that he couldn’t discuss his relationship status with ichini because so people were asking him questions on this QA and everyone was asking him

about a keaney because they really don’t care what his favorite toothpaste is or you know his favorite color of course they only care about what’s happening with the Keeney and he kept saying he couldn’t talk about it so they are most likely filming or going to be filming or talking about filming or hoping they’ll be I don’t know if you have any insight on that for us they don’t actually okay he’s tight-lipped but I go by analyzing how the social media is you know if their posts are so random if you ever if you ever see how often they post and what they post it’s like nothing for two weeks and then they both happen to like do a QA or some kind of weird thing that’s random like TLC is telling him it’s been 25 days you remind people who you are they’re like the most dead couple on on Instagram you know there’s nothing happening like there was a whole bunch and then yeah there was a drop-off and then all of a sudden it’s like yeah well what’s you know that might that might change again because in this episode we have the interview with Ben’s brother Raven coming up and he spilled all yeah he’s built everything you guys it’s a really really really good interview he’s got all of the all of the juice and so I’m really excited for you guys to hear that so you know and I guess there’s some some rumors that a Keaney is playing into that she may be pregnant to which I say how no she’s not you know I I actually had to go look at the post because I don’t follow either of them on my Instagram am I trying to keep some level of sanity and I went and saw the post that people were really talking about and I think people forget that her brother just had a baby okay with his boy okay and so the sister is being a great aunt to her nephew which is their brother’s child and so I mean it may have been fun tonight not clarify and maybe by contract or something they can say yes or no when people speculate but how could she have my regnant and if she’s pregnant now I have to say it wouldn’t be Ben’s my has not been back to to Kenya or unless he’s making some shipments that’s not money oh god no special delivery keep it gold FedEx overnight oh well you know if if Grayson has a little brother or sister then you know we’ll say well we’ll take this back right oh wait I’ll give it we’ll give it like what six more months and if we don’t see a baby crowning oh no no I don’t want to see that I mean I’m not gonna believe any pregnancy rumor unless I see a baby crowning he’s even a bump is not Yeah right nowadays with the stuff that people come up with mm-hmm anyone watch lifetime is that I didn’t know I was pregnant no no is this a lifetime always has those like really bad movies of like women who pretend they were pregnant to get like their ex back oh yeah don’t say don’t talk bad about those movies man I watched them okay mom okay when I was a kid all the time yeah that’s why I’m like those in my hallmark Christmas movies man oh my god nobody better talk shit about those you won’t hate on those I won’t hate on him thank you all right so moving on Tanya and cingino we’re gonna come back to them so I’m gonna skip them for now Paul and Carini are back in Kentucky Paul posted to his stories that he thank God we came to a peaceful agreement have returned home safe so they came back together they’re not going to divorce any more there there’s some speculation myself included that this was just a publicity stunt yeah I’ve seen evidence that tells me it might have actually been serious on her part so yeah it might have actually been legit on her part but let’s wish them well they’re back in Kentucky and let’s hope that that things can settle for them a little bit more especially since in Brazil they allegedly had their their place broken into and the robber funny that they got

robbed this is not funny but it’s just the details that he shared about the robbery why don’t you share those with us it’s just kind of like they dumped everything on the floor including taking a dump on this they took his little penis protectant I mean his little penis sheath what they want with that or if they know what it is they probably think it’s some kind of like banana holder and then and then after all this they get back and he posts another story about how she wants a divorce again so I just can’t even I can’t with them oh it’s that I could see why TLC’s done paying that well yeah so that allegedly so yeah leged lee they’re in a beef with TLC and sharp about not getting paid for all of this footage that they’ve already shot I believe that they already did this work like there he took did the filming and they’re not gonna get paid for it there’s son of Lee probably ruined it with their like divorce and then we’re back together bang I mean a like they were filming yeah I know they’re filming about their life so right well allegedly it’s a violation they violated their contract in some by some social media posts which you know you can say the same for a lot of cast members especially like I do Ashley J Larissa like there’s a lot of cast members who do this surprise any of them are getting paid right and we don’t know maybe they are maybe they aren’t but I’ve said this before that I think TLC picks and chooses who they go after as far as what’s worth it for them to to fight you know is Paul Paul and Corrine II don’t have they don’t anything right you can’t squeeze blood from a turn-on they know they’re not gonna come after them legally they’re not gonna hire a lawyer come after them and say no we do freeze your contract in a defense of a breach of contract suit which is what they would have to do in a situation like this if TLC if so TLC is not paying them their contract says that they have to fight this if they’re gonna fight it they have to fight all legal disputes in New York so they’d have to go to New York initiate a suit against TLC saying TLC didn’t that they breached their contract by not paying Paul and then TLC would say well we didn’t have to because the you breach this clause of the contract that says you won’t post that XYZ and here’s the evidence that we have that you did Paul Carini then you know as a part of a defense to that then would could say well what about this and what about this and it’s a whole huge legal argument illegal mess it’s a lot of legal fees and I’m sure Pollock Rini don’t have dick to be able to do that so you can imagine TLC just barring the sheer power of that alone right right so they have a lot of leverage so what are they gonna do you know are we gonna see Paul and Carini’s next couple of years or are we not get a seat Paul and cream these next couple of years I mean they still get to use the footage yeah they just don’t they don’t they don’t care they don’t really care if they’re gonna pay you if you like it if you don’t want to be on anymore they’re like whatever please how we want you right cuz they already own the footage at this point yep those contracts yep let’s see what else we have we have Laura saying that she filed for marriage fraud against a lledon whatever that means because she has he she allegedly has evidence that he’s been with this woman for months now well this has been the okay so this has been a subject of discussion for a while where he was because of the kind of marriage they had or something that if either of them are with somebody else that’s a violation of the law neither of them could go to jail and this isn’t entirely clear because nothing Laura says makes any sense but something about she has she wants to file marriage fraud whatever that is I did you have no idea what is but those was she’s saying she’s throwing that around because he’s dating this woman from Canada that’s hurt her his partner in his travel company and she doesn’t want him to get a Canadian visa and allegedly has proof of all this again I don’t even know what filing for marriage fraud is I don’t even know that what does that mean like a cause of action and lawsuit I have no idea but alledon so alledon decided to go on lie Instagram live with another blogger and he dropped the n-word and he’s been deleted he’s gay he’s camping cancelled he’s been canceled that’s not the cancel culture and he stepped into it so yeah so that’s not the first time he’s been

racist so he’s he has a habit of making fun of quote-unquote Asians by doing quote-unquote Chinese eyes pulling his eyes back with his hands tried to make him slant it I haven’t caught that one yeah he’s done that and dropping the n-word so he’s done he’s cancelled I’m over him let’s see Rebecca says the bring that zeod wears is an engagement ring not a wedding ring there’s been a lot of posts lately about her court case for failing to pay child support or show D hearings she has not come out and defended this in detail saying specifically that she won’t go into details but it’s not what it looks like and she’s not it’s it that it’s hard not to stare her side of the story and more information has been coming forward krazee-eyez km to Instagram handle has been posting a lot of past court documents stuff that has to do with like a mediation that they entered into where she agreed to pay him and child support and but I know that there was also something where he lost custody of the kids because of abuse and was ordered to go to anger management so she had the kids and then then they went back to him and then she got money from the divorce that he’s suing her for and that’s what the child support is for or something it’s messy y’all sounds very bad I mean I know under if you mean you said she didn’t show up to two of the hearings I’m wondering if strategically she was just like it’s best if I don’t yeah not knowing all of the details I don’t know what her legal strategy is on this but it sounds messy you know it really sounds like a mess and I know enough to know that there’s it’s never as easy or as cut and dry as one court filing there’s always a lot more to the story and you’ve to dig deep into it and as the more court filings are coming out it’s just making this the whole picture just getting muddy or and muddier and messier messy and it’s not helping to clarify things so I’m not entirely sure in the show she all want to see all the kids she has been her kids are on the show right – is it two daughters I know Tiffany she posts she posts with on Instagram all the time okay and Tiffany was on the show yeah that’s a weird it’s almost like the ex is just making trouble more than anything according to her I think that’s what’s happening but under the guise of suing her for child support that she and that she says that she doesn’t actually owe so I just I can’t say one way or the other what like what the real story is it’s really I think it’s too murky to know what happened between them and what gentlemen’s agreements they may have had and what was in writing and what’s not but the fact is she has these Leal’s things that she has to deal with and respond to and they don’t paint her in a positive light but there is more to the story it is coming out more will be revealed as they say so and also we have confirmation that Danielle and big red Beth are going to be on pillow talk so I’m looking forward to that alright let’s see what else do we have tell all was filmed this weekend I got a message from somebody saying that in Chicago saying that we have an upcoming permit for 90-day fiance the other way at Daley Plaza in Chicago so something’s gonna be filming there for the other way we don’t know what we don’t know who like I said the tell-all was filmed this weekend there were some pictures of the cast hanging out together we didn’t see any pictures of Annie and Robert no word on where they were and why they weren’t in the cast of the pictures well Robert I know you I think Robert posted on his Instagram and his story a picture of himself and it had like New York in the background well he’s he’s from Brooklyn right so maybe yeah spending time there maybe that’s from the past or he just went home for the holidays yeah and I think the cast tends to split off in in sort of like cliques groups of who the who they get along with better than others said that you know Annie and Robert may just not have gotten along with the other ones as well very you know there’s nothing there’s not any pictures of Blake with them there are some with jasmine but not a ton of them altogether yeah and they might have been doing their own thing and what we also saw too

though in those pictures was that Tom crashed one of those after purchase damn it Tom which we’re gonna get into in a minute because we think we know why he was there tom is like you know the mean that they’re doing of Danielle being everywhere oh god yeah Tom is actually doing it in real life so he was at that was Friday night he was hanging out with the cast at whatever after-party they were doing whatever and then Saturday night he had a party at the hotel Chantal I believe it was called in New York City we actually had a fraud caster on the ground there doing boots on the ground hashtag journalism boots on the ground there and went live on Instagram from there with me looks like it was a lot of drinking and dancing there’s tons of pictures up tom has all of these pictures of him very very drunk with all of these women including our fraud caster that was there on the ground doing the Lord’s work for us it was like a nice place though yeah it was beautiful poppin it was beautiful is anything so so this is the speculation of why we think tom was there at the the cast party or the casting the Friday night right so we think that tom was there allegedly to try to recruit cast members for his latest venture which is this Organo Gold coffee that he’s trying to peddle which is actually a multi-level marketing company don’t forget their skin care and there’s traveling to you are there real oh that’s right does that make sense more than just coffee coffee skincare and traveling because that’s what oh is you sell together so we decided to look into this and quite what what is this what does this Organo Gold and how does it work so we fell down the rabbit hole deep into multi-level marketing companies because by their own admission organo gold is a multi-level marketing company you know what is a multi-level marketing company you may ask so the original definition of a multi-level marketing company arose from a decision in 1979 from that was against amway somebody had sued amway the original sort of an MLM as it were and the FTC defined MLM is a business model in which a company distributes products through a network of distributors who are an income from their own retail sales of product and from the retail sales made by distributors direct and indirect recruits and that’s kind of the key there so typically the distributors are in commissions not only for your own sales but for the sales made by the people you recruit under you you’re sort of your downline as it were and in a recent more recent case the FTC has defined multi-level marketing program as any marketing program in which participants pay money to the program promoter in return for which the participant obtains the right to a recruit additional participants or have additional participants placed by the promoter or any person in the program’s downline tree cooperative income center or other similar program grouping whatever they call it in that particular company be sell goods or services and see receive compensation in whole or in part based upon the sales of the participants downline in etc etc so what that means is so people say this is a quote unquote pyramid scheme which is a business model that recruits members via a promise of payments or services for enrolling others rather than supplying like the actual products like selling the products your money comes from the people who buy it from you to your downline actual pyramid schemes are illegal and not sustainable and so these multi-level marketing companies based on this amway decision that found my technically not to be a pyramid scheme based on these very technical definitions they do certain things that allow them to call themselves not a pyramid scheme but they are multi-level marketing schemes and what that means is that your primary source of income is going to be from the people who you recruit underneath you and the product that they buy and the product that the people under them buy so you get it’s kind of a closed system normally you know if you sell a product to the public that’s where you make your money right like to the end-user the under

user pays for it and that’s where your your profit comes in it sounds complete yeah right in a multi-level marketing situation your sales don’t the primary source of your income doesn’t come from selling the product to the end-user it comes from what your downline buys or sells and typically what happens what has to happen is you buy this product yourself you pay this money into the company for a set about a product and into whatever scheme and I’m going to explain this and how it works with organ or organ organ oh okay in a minute but you pay money into it you get product that you can then sell or give away whatever to the general public or and then you also have to recruit people under you to do the same thing and then they have to buy a product and you get a you get a portion of that sale that they’re buying because they’re under you so you get a portion of that and it works down I think in the organo gold situation it goes down nine levels and then there’s another way around it based on some other way that you can do you can actually beat that and get other levels so the way that the compensation works in organo gold is that there’s well first to get started there’s the bronze level the silver level on the gold level for the bronze level it’s $199 silver is four hundred ninety nine dollars in the gold level is one thousand two hundred and ninety five dollars to get started on a company and you get a certain amount of product at each of those levels and then there’s also a the different levels have matching programs in certain amounts of compensation it’s very complicated the way that they explain it so the way that you get compensated they talk about seven different ways that you get compensated the first one is by selling the product to the end-user two through seven are all about how you make money through the people who work under you in these varying levels there’s a unilevel there’s dual level there’s peleg there’s not Peleg there’s they’re all they’re all based on commissions from your downline so six of the seven ways you earn money is through the people below you so you’re incentivized to get people below you versus actually selling the product so that’s sort of a primer on what a multi-level marketing company is and you did some cement digging why don’t you tell us about what you did I did do some digging so curious me because I used to be a stay-at-home mom and this this type of gig was very popular so there was sensi there was what are those darn leggings called lularoe lularoe and all those things you’d get flooded with from being in the stay-at-home-mom community everyone was selling something right biography leggings or wax warmers I was a military wife so it was very popular amongst that crowd as well you know very well but they all had parents that probably went to a Tupperware party or Mary’s at pampered chef Mary Kay yeah yeah so you saw the ones and like the you know fancy cars cuz they were like Diamond level Mary Kate and at the pink car Cadillac um oh yeah the pink cars I used to be envious because I really wanted one so my curiosity came in to figuring out okay well what does it take to get into this you know business because there’s always some kind of like to see this personal as she 13 whatever so literally reached out and asked house could Tom himself you know um hey you know it’s really cool you’re selling that I’m interested in getting into that what advice do you have is there you know someone that you have the contact to work for organelle and I said I wanted to work for organ oh he contacted me with somebody who was I’ll say very nice and they kind of jumped right into what the benefits were of working with organelle she shared a lot of videos I would say there are more inspirational videos I think maybe we could share them they’re just the YouTube links but a good amount of them is from what’s this guy’s name Holton wives of the entrepreneur have you seen that Holton bugs yeah that him too but I mean they’re like do you like these long 45-minute inspirational you know in the link itself it says network marketing Pro yeah because that’s what they call it in in organo gold they called network marketing buzzword right

it’s just network marketing so I googled it I literally googled it and it’s just another fancy word for multi-level marketing mmm-hmm they also try to use the word uni-level marketing which is just another version of well these are all the ways that they get around being in unlawful pyramid scheme is these various compensation issues is how yeah there’s there’s very technical issues with and in legalistic terms about what makes it something a pyramid scheme and if you can phrase your work you’re you’re lent your literature in such a way that it it gets you right outside of that you’re skirting that line you’re technically your that’s how my one right and you know I tried to get like I’m trying to get it out of them like so what kind of selling is this yeah do I have do I get to keep a hundred percent of my profit and I was told that the way it works is that anyone they put under you you’ll get a benefit on a unilevel payout so a person first first the first thing they tell her is that she makes profit from the people under her not from selling the product to the end user it’s the the first way they tell her is the person under you okay continue yep and so she said what you sell is yours being on Tom’s team gets you exposure so that’s where it kind of like perked me because tom has this platform for being on TV and now it’s like if you work with him then you get the same exposure that he has because he’s gonna be sharing your Instagram page or social media page but they don’t include that some of your business is going to be because you’re literally his down line see so that means that you’re paying a percentage of your sales to him that’s that’s what’s assumed because if anyone under me is gonna be benefiting me I’m assuming that whoever I’m under is gonna benefit from whatever I’m doing great you know and then it’s the whole catchphrase you know it’s your own business it’s your own team you do this you do that okay and then the the last part of the bait was that someone else who’s on the 90-day fiance cast is joining Tom’s team ding ding ding ding ding and here we have the connection about Tom being at the Friday night get-together yes a K recruitment and it was successful he was successful the new teammate so the new team member that he has named rhymes with engine but unquote wife yes so they’re still together there you go spoiler married um and you know in thinking about it the kind of couple they are you know she went to learn herbal witch doctor so the product that they’re selling yeah let’s take some of it is it there yeah if we’re going by just the coffee and everything I kept trying to look into the magic mushroom blend that they’re saying this is you probably have no it’s better than I do on it but I can see it more lining with their beliefs the herbal so yeah what this is is there’s this this magic in greet this coffee has this quote-unquote magic ingredient of this this mushroom and I don’t even have the name of the mushroom in front of me right it’s supposed to be the super secret like heals everything in your body type of thing that you just have put it in your coffee because that’s what people drink every day and you’re drinking in health every day with this mushroom extract which as they call it nutraceuticals right so the name of it is Ganoderma lucidum yeah which is like the Ganoderma mushroom which is from China or something now not saying that there’s anything wrong with certain mushroom extract there is a lot of research on some of these out there the research on this particular mushroom is questionable it’s not FDA approved the use in this coffee and the claims that they make with this coffee are not FDA approved and the claims that they make with it are not verifiable so it’s there’s there’s health risks involved with this as well so yeah so so that is it’s this magic mushroom Coffee which

actually is the subject of one of the many lawsuits against them but before I get to that do you have other fun stuff that you you learn from your your dive that was pretty much that was pretty much where I left that conversation I’m trying to clarify is this network marketing yes its network marketing is that something you’d like to do I just had to get it for myself like is this actually what it is and so because I didn’t want to take the bait also you know just assuming because that’s what they’ll say is you assumed it was this but we meant this no well they set you a link that you shared with me that the very first thing they say is it’s multi-level marketing yes I I have so many yeah there’s so much inspiration in this chat the facebook chat the inspirational facebook chat now there’s there’s literally this is multi-level marketing in this particular company in general there this is just such a small capsule of what is out there the information is out there and we tried to condense it for you for just like a bite-sized piece I mean we could do we could do episodes upon episodes on this and in fact there’s a podcast called the dream season 2 I think it should be coming out soon but their season 1 is out there called the dream that goes into multi-level marketing at a really great level and so each episode is about different aspects of it they go over the history how they came to be some of the modern stuff one girl goes into one she buys into it and your talks about it because you know the thing about these multi-level marketing companies is you know how they sell themselves to stay-at-home moms and you know you can be your own boss and you can make your own hours and and their sir pray on the vulnerability of these people who with this promise of this dream that you’re gonna be rich and successful with your own time on your own time and you you know you you don’t have to work for the man anymore and all of these things but the reality is over 90 percent of people actually lose money on these things that go into him so and did you see the small print that they put on the website witness at night ninety percent of the people who sell make I think it said up to five hundred a year I forgot what the actual number was but it was such a small amount when you have to pay a minimum of two hundred dollars it looks like – yeah what was your what was your actual take home and it was it was very small it was nothing you could live on like if you’re gonna do all this work because you just wanted something on the side to do for fun sure but you’re putting your oh you have to outlay a lot of money because you have to have you have to stock the product so that you can bring into it you have to show you you so you can share it and give samples and exactly what I’m learning what I learned also just from sneaking around the website I think that their model is that you don’t have to have the physical product on you yes everyone gets their own affiliate link and then by purchasing from that person’s link they get that profit so it’s not like you’re care around suitcases of right Hackett’s of you know coffee right right so it’s a dropship but but they do encourage you to have to give out samples and you have these parties where you’re you’re showing the product and stuff so you need to have that at least amount of product in order to to market yourself effectively so again we could go you could go in so far deep on this stuff and we are not that podcast so we’re not going to but I’m gonna talk a little bit I did being the lawyer I wanted to go to all the lawsuits on this stuff and there is many many many lawsuits and so I’m only going to touch on a couple of them there was one that was a class-action in 2015 that dealt with the fact that the mushroom from a health standpoint it had blood thinning properties and that wasn’t advertised and that’s a concrete medical conditions and it can conflict with different medications that you’re you know be contraindicated with health conditions and medications that you take and so there was this class-action lawsuit that was going on that they were able to actually get dismissed in 2016 because they couldn’t certify the class of people apparently which is sort of a legal technicality it doesn’t mean that the merits of the case weren’t there it was they weren’t able to certify the class gotcha there was another lawsuit so one of the guys that sort of started this company

is guy named Holton bugs he was one of like the up and comers and he was this huge VP and then the bike super high up executive and there’s tons of videos on this guy and the only way I can describe this guy after watching video after video of him is this fucking guy he’s that he’s that fuckin guy all right so he goes on and on and on about this and he was a big in this company and then they had a falling-out that had to do with their there was this lawsuit by other it’s called the Amaris is lawsuit and there was a jury award of over 3.4 million dollars against against organo gold and a couple other companies and it had to do with unlawful transfer of a distributor list and breach of fiduciary fine but you should padieu she arey duties fraudulent transfer of the distribution list things like that when the company’s merged and took over each other there was a whole thing because these were all companies that there also were selling the same kind of thing and then they tried to merge and then took you know there was a lot of shady stuff going on with how they transferred this information and so there was a jury award and right after that this Holton bugs guy he bugged out and he left the company the company had the organic old has like scrubbed everything every instance of him on their website and he referenced to him and he has now moved on into cryptocurrency oh my god in Thailand I would think so there’s some Ponzi scheme cryptocurrency thing happening with him on that and which is what this guy’s history is before he came to Organo Gold this is what he does so and then there’s some other lawsuit that has to do with fraud again fraud regarding ownership interest in some shares of this of the company with this former consultant that was owed money and there’s RICO violations alleged and that’s all ongoing currently so I mean that’s just a snapshot of what’s happening so yeah yeah so you know is that is the the organogold that’s what Tom’s coffee Beauty travel company thing is that he’s doing now at this party that he had this weekend this past weekend there was no evidence of any of that there it looks look to be like it was just a party so that was good I mean it wasn’t like a recruiting event or like hey try the whole this time he was too busy dancing to try and yeah so we had to show him having fun and living his best light so that you okay so anyway so that’s that let’s move on to the exciting the other exciting part of this show today that I’m very excited about which is the interview with somebody you know now you know Raven personally I do and this is Ben of Benedict Heaney this is his brother and a Grayson’s uncle and he sat down with me and had a lot of things to say and I hope you enjoy that yes I’m shocked you got to sit down with him well they asked why I asked him why he was gonna sit down with me and he answers that and more coming up so here you go are you a younger brother or older brother I am younger I’m the baby of the family okay so how many siblings are there there’s me my sister my brother and then we have a sister that’s from another mother that’s over on the East Coast okay okay so you watch the show I did yes so so before we get into any the details about with the show showed versus what is actual reality tell me about how what before the show started tell me about your relationship with Ben and tell me how you came to find out about aki-nee and the show so I mean our relationship honestly it was never really a hundred person a lot of the things changed I’d say like probably back around 2010 when my mom passed away a lot of things changed between the dynamic of our family and everything I don’t know if it was caused

by that because we really didn’t talk that much before that either but ever since then especially it’s just been very torn kind of wouldn’t really talk unless he needed something or wanted something or if he saw that we were stressed on Facebook or something those are the kind of things he’d to reach out for but more recently about a year ago now about a year ago now he had come up on one of his vixens and what is his evictions yes one of them and he was in fact living out of his bed and called me why was he in a van down by the river and so my aunt was like freaking out about it oh my god he’s living and Vanier’s nowhere to go so being in the nice brother I was like you know what come stay with me for you know a couple weeks or whatever so you can get your stuff together and be able to move somewhere or whatever you know figure things out oh well couple weeks turned into three months the only reason he actually moved out was because I was moving into a one-bedroom apartment at the time for me and my roommate to save up to move back east which sadly hasn’t happened yet but and during that three months is when the van got repo’d and that was gone from my parking lot so sad he was living in a van down by the river and then his man gets repossessed like if that’s not the start of a country music song I don’t know what is hey anybody out there I want to write a song about Benz you know River Valley getting repo’d lost my van I lost my dog I lost and then what happens correct while he was living with me as when I first found out about Akemi and the whole 90-day fiance thing and oh we’re gonna try to go on this TV show you know about a Keeney before did you tell you about the show and ichini at the same time um it was pretty much the same time from what I can’t recall if he was like oh hey there’s this girl that I’ve talked to she’s over in Africa and you know we’re gonna go on this TV show and I was like alright alright but from there it just went on – that was when he moved up into the pastor’s house and everything that whole debacle which I think the listeners are gonna want to hear about so I don’t know when but you can tell us about the circumstances surrounding that um I thought he was going to rent a room somewhere like in someone’s house I had no idea was the pastor’s house until we actually like went to move him and he’s like oh this is the pastor’s house and it was a different house than when he said now because they moved to a larger house because I don’t even know how many people they have that dang house this is the pastor that so he’s renting rooms to lots of people looks like um I think the others are just family so they’re not even like renting revealin they just haven’t shot God okay alright okay okay I think his was more situation of I need somewhere to go do you guys know anybody and they were like well come stay with us interesting interested so say like couldn’t he just like go on Craigslist and find a room to rent but we know he has a history with Craigslist so I don’t know maybe not such a good idea for those of listeners just joining us there’s some speculation not confirmed from a couple of different that he has spent that Ben has spent some time on Craigslist in the personal ads section that is no longer up so we don’t have those anymore unfortunately so I can’t give you the absolute verification on those anyway so you move Ben into his pastures house mm-hmm and then you took all his booze but that’s because Ben didn’t want to move it in with him so because he felt that it was a respect issue he you know didn’t want to bring it in the home if it’s not wanted in there yeah so but he had this huge well a decent sized stash

of booze of his own and then he goes on this TV show criticizing Annie Keaney for sure honey super drunk off of two sips of a margarita which I know a lot of people have commented on that she obviously doesn’t drink that often if she’s getting that drunk off of that little of a drink or some people are also saying she’s just playing it up for TV either way like if I could get that drunk off of two sips of a margarita like maybe I wouldn’t be alcoholic take a lot more than two sips of a margarita it took a lot more than a margarita or five to get me where I needed to be so but you know it’s all good now so in any case so you move him into his pastor’s house and at this point he’s also telling you about the TV show and septage does he telling you that he’s gonna bring a Keaney back to the u.s. is any of that planned at this point that you’re aware of not that I was aware of I mean I knew they were going on the 90-day fiance show till like you know try to get engaged and then obviously after that she would come over at least that would be the normal deduction that any person would make right so wouldn’t you when he told you about this what was your impression of what their relationship was like was it just like let’s go see if it works out or are we engaged or in the show just a formality or from what I knew at the time they were just dating they had been dating for like six months or so at that point and they were like well let’s go and meet up in Africa and hey you know maybe this show will help pay for it or whatever and that way we can even better than that which obviously we all know they’re not gonna pay for all that mm-hmm interesting interesting so he said that to you that he thought the show would pay for the trips correct that time cuz we didn’t talk about that okay and do we know if she’ll see it did in fact pay for some or any of the trip I don’t believe they paid for any of it I don’t know for certain but I don’t believe that they did okay I mean obviously you get the conversation in the end from the TV you know episodes and everything but as for he’s actually like paying the transit everything now he paid everything from my understanding okay okay so he’s been evicted from two places and he just had his van down by the river get repossessed and he is gonna go buy a bride in Kenya and and this has drawn a lot of ire from the the interwebs because as we know he has a son Grayson correct for another right your nephew Grayson we interviewed Hannah kala a couple weeks ago she’s also my co-host this week and so you guys know who she is if you haven’t heard her interview that was a couple weeks back I think it’s episode four pregnant go ahead and listen to that and and there’s a lot of good information in there but this is a completely sort of this is a different viewpoint and so I was excited to get you on Raven because you do have a different viewpoint now you gave me permission towards the end of this as the season came to an end you gave me permission to sort of expose you as my source as it were because I don’t reveal my sources but you you actually said yeah you know we can put it out there part of this too is I know a lot of people would come to me because I can’t I during the season I would lease information that some of it I had gotten from you and people were like oh it sounds like a bitter ex-wife blah blah blah blah blah and she actually and we’ve talked about this before she has actually didn’t leak any of that and for those of us who have heard her interview you hear how classy and full of grace she is even speaking about that and she like doesn’t she does it’s like almost like she doesn’t have a bad word to say about him but obviously they’re not big things aren’t great but she she does it in such a classy way that you can’t fault her for any of it I know she there was a lot of good people had a lot of good things to say about it but it’s a different viewpoint than a brother and family dynamics in that regard and so I thought that your viewpoint could give us sort of a different view or the same view of what we’ve been seen you know maybe maybe your your corroborating some of the stories and and so far you know I think the other thing a lot of people want to know is why like why you’re coming forward and in in a way throwing your brother under the bus and we can I know that I think I know most of the reason chronologically it may not make a whole lot of sense at this point but I think

let’s let’s get into that so basically the reason why I started coming forward on things as when the show first aired even with the first episode that he was in I was just absolutely disgusted at the way that they were showing him of like this poor burg man that you know it does all this stuff for his son and you know got wiped out and this and that and he gave the bus everywhere listen that because for over a year I drove him almost every single weekend to go back out to Hannah cows house to take Grayson home every single Sunday so that he can see his son every weekend or the weekends that he did see him and I had done that for over a year even during while he was on the trip and everything as soon as he got back it went right back to normal plans that we were you know driving him and everything so then when we got to the end of the season and there was the towel where he was all oh my family didn’t support me in this and didn’t help me and this and that and they were just you know basically bad-mouthing us and I was like are you kidding me how did I not support you like I was driving you every weekend to go see your son and take him home and that’s not supporting of us not helping you and then furthermore people were going on Instagram and were saying like oh how could your family betray you like that I’m sorry that they did this to you things like that and she members said a lick of anything to them he was just like oh thanks for your support but yeah he goes on there and makes a whole post about oh don’t talk crap about Aggies parents and so I felt really betrayed by that I was like I was hurt and so I confronted him about it and I was like how is this not supporting you he was like oh wait you guys didn’t talk to me for a couple weeks and I brought up the fact us like really cuz I was driving you and helping you and normally we really don’t talk that much anyway unless you need something or if you think something’s wrong from like our Facebook post or something like that and it just ended up exploding of this whole thing and I just told him I’m like look you know I can’t do this anymore I’ve reached my end you know I’m gonna settle things with you because I had owed him some money at that point and so I settled things with him and I was like I’m done I can’t do this anymore and his response was okay best wishes have a great life so he didn’t give a shit no you were cutting him off and he didn’t give a shit that he had in your view betrayed the family absolutely did not care okay so for those I’m just gonna explain a little bit of this on the the tell-all and I think the episode before the tell-all Ben had talked about how his family didn’t support him he had not told his family there’s that and the other thing they they when he called or texted to say he’d gotten married according to their custom or whatever the family basically cut him off and wasn’t supporting him and didn’t respond to text messages and sort of just cut him off now what you’re saying Raven is that that’s absolutely not true and that you continue to dry every weekend and I believe I’ve seen some Tex chains where he’s the one and that wasn’t responding to you guys it’s like all of you guys as a family reaching out to him and him not responding to you correct there was probably about a good nine days that he had no idea what was going on while he was in Kenya we didn’t know he was dead in a ditch so well we didn’t know he was having a great time living his life whatever because we would ask questions and be like hey how’s things going what’s going on you know when are you coming back things like that and we would get no response and then nine days later we get a third person message saying that is now married and it’s like wait what if there’s a reason message like that do you mean well yeah because it like it was written in the third person it just said been as married now or like Benjamin is now married and so it wasn’t even something like he wrote it but it came from his account and then came a big long explanation of oh this was a cultural customs thing I wanted to respect their ways and this is why I did it I hope you can understand that it ah well it wasn’t that we didn’t understand it was just we didn’t talk to you for nine days and then we get this third party message saying you’re now married of course we’re going to be confused it sounds very confusing and and I understand too from when Hanako and I talked was you guys reached out to her to to see if she had hurt anything being the mother of his son mm-hmm and she didn’t know either and you know she was not privy dinya the text conversations or anything like that so she didn’t know what you guys were talking about but which is why I think this your viewpoint is very very interesting and and provides a bit this bigger picture to what’s going on because as classy and

full of grace as Hanna kala is about when she talked about him it’s still an ex-wife right so people are always going to attach the certain amount of bias to it and you know they may do the same with you you know we had people have their biases whatever but giving this more complete picture of who Ben actually is and what was said on the show shows the sort of how big the fraud was whether it was him pushing it or whether it was TLC pushing that narrative either way he was complicit in it and putting this narrative out there that he’s this poor single dad was wiped out in the divorce whose family abandoned him because he married this girl and none of that is true none of it so in addition to the you know fun salacious past stuff like oh you know he was evicted twice got his van down by the river repossessed lives at his pastor’s house he actually does you know drink a lot of alcohol himself know a lot like in the sense that me is an alcoholic drink like you know just do you know a normal amount and anything more than aki-nee’s two sips and so what we’re seeing then is that that’s that’s not true none of it is true and what I learned this week is that you guys had this whole family dinner that was filmed it was actually filmed at an Airbnb because they wanted to make it look like he had lived on his own what can you tell me about that family dinner it was a very awkward dinner I would say we had pizza that got ordered and we were playing life although of course it was staged as well you know so it was let’s move the pieces around and let’s spend a little spinner so that it looks like you guys are playing it was not a real game it was like just little pieces around it’s the little spinner that way you guys look like you’re playing and eat your pizza dinner that you guys would have had normally was this oh god no okay so everything was just completely the producer says let’s have a family game night make it look like we’re trying to make it look like a happy little family which is not the correct picture because we hadn’t done family game night since my mom passed away okay which is when you said that things started to go south with your relationship with them correct okay so continue about the dinner so the dinner production was like completely trying to let have us act like we’re the competitive type out like you know saying oh my god are you crazy for doing this you know what about you know if you need shots to go over there what about your son while you’re over there you know talking about oh you know you could still back out of this you don’t need to do this and then they brought up a lot of interesting stuff in that whole conversation that just kind of floored me for example talking about once she’s over here he wants to do what’s called a covenant marriage one of the things that shocked me like super crazy when I found out what that was can you arrange listeners with that it’s because I had to look it up so a covenant marriage from what I have seen online and from what I’ve been told by himself as well from Benjamin is that essentially you have to go to counseling before you can get married and then once you are married there’s basically no way to get out of it unless there’s like domestic violence sex abuse or you know similar types of things going on at the house and even then you still have to go to counseling to get the divorce before you can get divorced so this is something that Arizona recognizes as a legal marriage as a different type of marriage than a standard marriage I think it’s a few other states have it as well maybe like 8 to 12 if I remember correctly there’s not a lot ok so this is a legally recognized kind of marriage it’s like it’s like a church very specific like the church covenants on a marriage like sometimes you know Catholics you know I don’t they require counseling and stuff before you get married there’s certain requirements before you get married and after you you know if you’re gonna get divorced and stuff that church tradition and church covenant and doctrine says so this is basically like state sanctioning that type of thing Koreans okay so Ben wanted to do this with wants to do this so as far as we know wants to do this with a Keeney which means that the normal Arizona state laws regarding marriage aren’t applicable there’s a whole sort of separate section of law now I don’t practice family law so I don’t know a whole lot about how the mechanics of this work but from what I’ve read it’s it’s it’s pretty binding like it’s very binding that’s why I was like wait what and I don’t know if a kini is aware of that because there’s like the religious tenants and then there’s the state legal

tenants about getting out of a marriage and in a lot of places where like you can get a no-fault divorce and like in Virginia where I got divorced my divorce was if you have kids and it’s a no-fault divorce like you have to have you have a one-year waiting period and by no-fault meaning there was no adultery there’s no domestic violence there’s there’s none of that and in my case there wasn’t it was fairly amicable we just you know we ran our separate courses and and so we did have the one-year waiting period because we have baby frauded but otherwise we didn’t have to show I didn’t have to show that he was abusive because he wasn’t and there was no you know infidelity or anything like that in a covenant marriage you have to show all of those things right and show that hoping despite that you went to counseling and you know this it’s okay that he beat me because I probably deserved it type of thing like I’m just I’m just speculating you guys I don’t know for sure don’t come you have to it’s the burden of your proof to prove that this is going on and that’s why you want out okay so you learned from production or from been at there’s a dinner this staged paid family dinner it was brought it up okay so did you guys have a genuine reaction to that or did you have your staged reactions that TLC told you I had a genuine reaction I was just shocked I’m like wait what she’s that they’re she’s like and did he give you any further explanation did he say anything did he try to justify it did he whoa anything happened there basically was the type that he about the type of marriage she wanted to have and that’s what you know I don’t remember if he said they had talked about it or not but I know she said that that was definitely his plan is for it is that he wanted to get a covenant marriage and that those were the stipulations up at things like that interesting okay so what else happened at this dinner um more pizza eating DLC give you like any actual scripts or did they just feed you lines that they wanted you think it’s just headlines they didn’t like actual script but they they definitely were trying to be like they were trying to make us seem more argumentative with that way they were like oh you know talk about more of your fears of him going over there and you know talk about what could happen to him over there and I’m like he’s an adult he’s gonna go if he wants to go we can’t stop just probably one of the the most logical things people have said you know you don’t see that on TV because obviously this is not you know this is what TLC does is they force these these dinners or these conversations and they push this narrative of this argumentative family when really your reaction as well he’s a grown-ass man let him do who wants right so after the fake dinner then at what point so what then he goes to Kenya mm-hmm okay did you talk to him you did talk to him or you didn’t talk to him much while he was in Kenya to keep you updated fairly talk to him I mean like he’d send some pictures in the Facebook group chat and be like oh yeah and then like I said there was that 90 period where we just heard nothing and we were like hello mmm how long was he in Kenya I believe it was just about two weeks that he was there okay then half of that he was in you’re talking to guys correct okay okay and then he comes back married yep married according to her you know country custom or whatever which which I understand isn’t even the thing anymore but whatever so it makes for a good deal we go according to the Kenya law but it makes turgut TV so he comes back engaged married whatever did he tell you anything about this time in Kenya did you talk about it did you talk about a kini his reaction the fact that he you know banged her before he was technically married like any of them talk about at this point he was already moved into the pastor’s house so I mean I wasn’t really seeing him that much besides when I would drive him on the weekends with Grayson and so like we’d have like little conversations here and there like as I’m driving but for the most right I mean it wasn’t like we were married in the church Eliezer none of that good so you didn’t have to discuss aki-nee’s cookie jar we do not have to discuss the cookie jar thank goodness

because when I saw it on the show I was just like I think we were how old interesting okay so this has all been very very fascinating and so then okay so just chronica logically just finish out this storyline here at some how long after he returned from Kenya did you cut ties with him I actually just recently cut ties with him I say it’s probably been maybe about three weeks now a month was it from when he got back from Kenya – oh god from Kenya like a year ago now okay so there’s a really long time post Kenya oh yeah I was cause like I said I was still driving him like every weekend with grace and to take him home to have a cow up so he could see him on the weekends and stuff and you know so I wanted to help him with that because I said I’d help them and then he was busing everywhere else or lifting whatever he was doing but left out there would be like a bazillion dollars so I was still driving him on the weekends and helping him that and then all of the show happened and I was like what that this is not who he is like this this isn’t him why are you guys portraying it like those like that’s not the situation at all okay so so he’s gonna have quite the reaction to this if he if you listen to this I mean it’s not like you find it online he was take care have a great wife right right you do you do you right I mean it’s not like you’ve been quiet online you’ve you’ve been you know fairly vocal like I wouldn’t say you’ve been out there like you know waving this flag around about what a shitty person he is or anything but when asked you’ll answer the questions and so it’s not shouldn’t come as a surprise to him that his family is talking the truth about him I guess I don’t what are these much doesn’t surprise him anymore apparently doesn’t care I mean I don’t know like I find him fascinating his little I’m a celebrity now world and I’m gonna live my little life and post my fake Instagram thing saying that I’m you know off at church with my son when he didn’t even have them that weekend I was like wait a minute this weekend how is this going on was like you don’t have him Lord what I find fascinating is the beginning of the season this was the boring couple right and like I remember somebody somebody who is tangentially related like somebody who knew somebody who worked with him or something had reached out to me and be like well I know this one person but it’s really boring you know into the boring banggai and okay whatever and now it turns out what we’ve learned about him is it’s like oh dear God so I want to get into some of the questions the Facebook Book Group the fraud casters have for you Audrey wants to know what was been like as a kid um you know I mean as a kid he was a brother you know we went to church on the weekends and you know we had family dinners obviously because we were a family back then I mean and then around teenage head that’s when we started splitting and going different ways because that’s when my parents got divorced and I went off and lived with my mom and he went off and lived on his own and we all were doing our thing so okay and that kind of goes into the question one of the other questions that a couple other people had was Finnegan specifically asks has been always been that religious it’s a whole family that religious can you give some insight on that she’s definitely not always been this religious like I mean he’s gone to church and done the church thing going to church and everything our immediate family like me and my sister my dad my mom when she was still living we were definitely not all that religious especially not Christian as you even say to the other day I’m waking myself so I’m definitely not in the hole you’re not singing hymns rocking in the corner I am NOT singing hymns rockbj√∂rnen no okay so the another question that several people have asked is have you met a Keeney in any way obviously you haven’t gone to Kenya Demeter have you met her on skype or facetime have you texted with her had any social media interaction with her have you talked to her on the phone what kind of interaction with ichini have you had I talked to her like once

on video chat when I was basically forced to because we were sitting in the living room and he suddenly video chat I was like hi and like the phone over was like so he hasn’t like he hasn’t tried to introduce you guys or anything like that no I mean like he tried to get me to talk every now and then when I be driving and I’d be like I’ve never I need to focus on driving so no what about other family members do you know if like your dad your sisters anybody else has talked to her been quote-unquote introduced her no I mean my sister was there when we got the first video chats I mean that was her only real interaction with you as well um I think she follows her on Instagram I’m not totally sure but she doesn’t like talk to her comment and all that so okay so so Ben hasn’t tried to introduce his quote-unquote wife / fiance to anybody at his family no because I’m pretty sure that he’s funding some sort of story that were horrible people so yeah well we know what he’s news done online and on the dish oh yes we know he’s on there somebody asked Roberta asks is he he meeting you raven lending or giving money to Ben for the k1 visa to get a key knee to the states I would think he needs a co-sponsor do you have any insight there and Christine follows that up with that would be my question – who’s co-sponsoring her as Ben doesn’t seem to be financially stable enough to do it as far as I know from what we’ve seen online he is the only one that’s sponsoring it there is no co-sponsor listed on the application thing unless that just doesn’t show up online but I definitely have not been giving him any money for that I would not give him money for that because I’m like really dude you gotta go over there by a wife and not find someone here or like support your kid or buy a car and then you know just I’m like priorities folks priorities speaking of that do you know if somebody asked Brie asked do you know if he will ever have the bride price paid off and does anyone in the family really know what the bride price is or do you think it’s all scam for money I cuz Warren I remembered some time that we were talking about it that he said it was like $2,000 but I don’t like a hundred don’t remember but I thought we had spoken about it he said $2,000 but then other people have said that they’ve heard the match so honestly none of us really know what the bribe prices or if he’s ever gonna be done paying it off especially since he now just went off and bought it you know use 2013 vehicle pretty sure he’s not gonna have a lot of money for everything else now that he’s making those payments as well interesting okay and another question Maria has is what what do you think about a kini being a stepmom to Grayson do you think that she will be a good stepmom or what do you think is gonna happen if she’s not a good stepmom or doesn’t care to be what you have any thoughts on that know how she would be with Grayson but at least from what I’ve seen portrayed on the show she doesn’t want to be a stepmom she doesn’t even want kids right now so I’m just like why are you forcing her into this situation if you know that it’s gonna be friction and why would you do that to your kid as well if you know that the person doesn’t want to be around kids basically force them into a covenant marriage Kelly asks do you know Ben has told Grayson about Akeem II from what I understand he has talked to him about it he talked to him about the trip and everything he hasn’t like introduced her I don’t believe but they’ve talked about Akemi and he somehow wants to eventually take him there to meet you know her family and everything but we’ll see if that ever actually happens okay another question somebody has and before I go and come back to your your thoughts are is what is wrong with him why is he so effing controlling asks Elizabeth honestly I’m not sure where it came from I think she’d just like to try to be in control of situations and I think that’s now stemmed into the rest of his life and when he’s not in control of something she doesn’t feel very funny he

feels very anxious and awkward and you know I’m sure we seeing that on the show when he’s been in some of these situations where he wasn’t control of things and she was sitting there sweating bullets and I’m sure it wasn’t just kind of the temperature well that’s what Hana Carlos said that that was kind of his MO in awkward situations that that was him so that at least was accurate so coming back to you and your your sort of individual thoughts I mean we’ve covered a lot of topic and a lot of time chronologically what is there stuff in there that I didn’t touch on that you want to touch on is there anything else that’s out there that you want to address that or holes that need to be filled in things like that like I mean I’m not doing this to be vicious or anything I just I don’t want people being fooled by everything that’s been put out there and because I also know that she’s one to spin things it’s not going the way that he wants and obviously me cutting him off is not what he wants so he’ll probably spend that however he wants but you know in all actuality basically when I told them I’m done helping it was sayonara get out of my life he had no use for you once I was a very unified exactly so you don’t have any contact with him at this point this point like even through the family or anything after this point I’ve got no contact with him I blocked him on Facebook Instagram everything because he had deleted one of my profiles and severely restricted the other one where it was he was showing that we were friends on everybody else’s side anymore and so I was like why didn’t you just block me dude like if you’re gonna go through all that just like me does he have the same kind of just like what kind of relationship does he have with your other siblings um Timber my sister barely ever speak okay I mean what about your father she’s basically just only come around like for Grayson’s birthday party that he was having she came around for that but otherwise they don’t really talk they haven’t talked in ages okay and what what about your father with my dad he doesn’t speak to him at all I mean they haven’t spoken in years and years and years which i think is what he was going to end up saying in the episode before they cut it off and she started speaking about other stuff but you know they had their own problems she blames things that did not happen but that’s not my story to give away because that’s you know him and my dad but yeah they’ve definitely had strenuous times in life and they are not talking but thankfully me and my dad have a great relationship made my sister have a great relationship so okay so the relationship that you have with Ben is specific to it’s been specific it’s not Raven specific it’s not like you cut yourself off from the rest of your family and class yeah and he was a collateral damage it’s he’s this relationship has been damaged by you know I guess depending on whose viewpoint you know his own actions and you don’t have that same kind of issue with your sister or your father like you guys are all still really close but exactly and has elected to live this other way and had not have his family in my life because we’ve reconnected and been able to form a relationship and I’m able to see my nephew through her or so well that’s what I was gonna ask is is I understand that Grayson actually gets along and has a great relationship with his aunts and uncles you and your sister and then his grandfather your dad can you elaborate on that at all um I would say me and my sister have wonderful relationship with him we get him gifts and stuff and getting a little puzzles from the dollar store and he’s just absolutely in love with them we go to family dinners at Olive Garden and we have an amazing time we sit down we eat and we play with him and he’s just such a little goober I love them to death you do get to see him a lot oh yeah we definitely make our times to see him even if we have to go all the way out there we make it happen he lives a distance away from you it’s a little 45 minutes it’s about like 45 50 miles from us because we’re on the west side of the valley and they’re on the far far east side of the valley got it okay I have no idea of Arizona geography I’ve driven through it when I lived in San Diego I drove through it to go to Texas which I don’t recommend driving through it or going to Texas but you know don’t don’t at me y’all only I swear I’m that country music song not all I need more anyway as far as between Grayson and my

dad I know he hasn’t seen him like in person since he was a little baby but we did recently have a video chat with Hannah Kawa and Grayson when we were on vacation and Pennsylvania together he was able to video chat with him and talk with him a little bit and he does want to come out here and see him again sometime so working on making that happen well that all sounds really good I mean it all sounds like you guys as a family of all sort of come together to rally around Grayson and and family I mean I know family relationships can be very calmly getting complicated at best and I mean I know my own personal relationships with my siblings and my family is all there it can be very complicated but you know to know when to set stuff aside and when to be able to you know pull together and all of that I think is important and it shows that you guys that despite Ben and despite Ben’s best efforts you guys are all coming together to be in Grayson’s life who is your family you knows your blood family and I think that that that’s awesome and family is really what you make of it right like you make your own family and if you’re willing to have that family and have that extended family relationship you can and you’re you guys you guys are a great example of that of showing how you know you and Hanna Kyle you know Ben’s ex-wife are you know reconnected as you know on a friendly level so that you have access to Grayson and she’s helping to facilitate that and you’re helping to facilitate to facilitate that and I think that that’s all really really nice to see and it’s kind of a shame that Ben is missing out on that by his own actions I want why when I first got that message that was basically saying goodbye have a nice life I cried a lot I won’t lie it hurt because I did cut me deep but you know I just realized I have family that loves me and that cares about me and I still have access to my nephew through kind of Kawa so I’m okay you know that’s the biggest thing I want to be able to be in my nephew’s life so okay well you know I and I guess I guess that’s really all any of us can hope for right is we have people around us that love us and care about us despite the people who may not you know and I think that that’s really I think that’s a good lesson maybe to take out from all of this and maybe you know Ben will change maybe he’ll come around maybe a kini who will finally see him for who he really is and call things off bikini if you’re listening to this please reach out to me you know and and you know but if he does bring a kini over here you know maybe maybe there’ll be a change maybe who knows what’ll happen you know I’m not it’s gonna say oh yeah rah-rah like everybody needs to be you know this this big tight happy family just because you’re family I definitely don’t believe that because your family can be toxic and you don’t need that in your life if somebody’s toxic just because they’re family boundaries but you know maybe that’s a whole other subject but but maybe when she comes out here and you know if she comes out here then you know maybe things will shift you never know you know but I do I am I think that’ll probably wrap it up here I want to thank you again for taking the time to talk to me to take taking the time that you have throughout the season talking to me trusting me with the information and talking to me again today because I think this has been a really great educational and I hope the listeners enjoy it it’s been a pleasure so there you go that’s a pretty intense huh yeah we are gonna have to talk later so we’re moving on to the shout outs from the dump I only have one this week and that is from a crazy anti-vaxxer who was up on my Instagram page and in my DMS decided to message me with all of this propaganda bullshit look don’t if you’re in anti-vaxxer don’t come at me with that shit just don’t like no I’m not the person what else we have going on yesterday I did an interview with Mary Payne Gilbert of the podcast pane in the pod that’s PA why and E in the pod it’s a podcast about other podcast so she interviews podcasters so she interviewed me that will be up probably next week on her page I will send out the link when that comes up we did an interview and for her regular show and for the patreon so it was a fun interview she actually lives near me so I got went over to our

house and we got to hang out together so that was fun so I’ll definitely have to check round she also co-hosts pink shade with Erin Martin on there their episodes regarding 90-day fiance and love after lockup and they also do the two of them do hey bunkie which is a patreon where they go deeper into some of the love after lockup 90 day stuff and like welcome to Platteville and some of the other things that’s on on hey bunkie so if you guys haven’t listened to them pink shade with Erin Martin she also does a lot of stuff with a housewives she’s on every Friday night on Serio Friday afternoon on s’more morning on Sirius XM with Jenny McCarthy they talk and it’s a lot of fun and if you guys have not listened to pink shade with Aaron Martin I highly recommend them they’re great they’re great people and this shows a lot of fun as well as hey bunkie you know it station she’s on you know I don’t have no thing they always like switch around like what it is look link it in the show notes probably yes let’s see what else merch and swag available on my website talkers a fraud comm if you’re interested in any merch either fraud cast branded or show branded we have fun stuff there take a look we have swag bags still available I got mine because I know use my handle this random person I used your handle on the address that’s funny at least I got to you it made its way it did if you like what you’re listening to and you want to hear more please give us a 5-star rating on Apple podcast we would appreciate it helps us come up in the searches for for people and you can find me at frauded by TLC on Instagram you can find us at the fraud casters on Facebook and where can they find you and they can find me on Instagram and it’s cactus underscore fruit underscore juice I post sometimes exciting things I mean she’s been she’s been a 90 day fan from the jump so so she’s well before her ex husband decided to go on the show and buy a bra yes but I what I will say from him going on the show I was introduced to the social media part of it which has been very exciting it’s a lot of like nurses there’s this whole new world on the side of 90 fiance do you know just watch anymore there’s like blogs and Instagram and I mean the whole thing you can also find me on Instagram live on Friday nights frauded night live Friday nights at 9:30 p.m. and I think that’s about it so thank you guys once again for joining us this week I hope you enjoyed the interview and well a lot of good stuff coming your way before and after the holidays and I am trotted by TLC and I’m dumpster diving so you don’t have to you can find your fraud caster on Instagram Twitter and Facebook at frauded by TLC and on the web at stalkers of fraud calm this fraud cast has been produced and edited by yours truly art by Sarah dotty music written produced and performed by Umami segment producer at I heart reality TV shows further assistance provided by many unnamed fraud consultants you