Trudge The Road Radio – IMPORTANCE OF AL ANON

welcome to trudge to road trudge the road sponsored by Karen treatment centers karen is a non-profit leading provider of drug and alcohol addiction treatment with treatment facilities in Pennsylvania Florida and Texas and offices in Bermuda Boston New York Philadelphia and Washington DC they can be reached by calling 1-800 854 6023 where you can go to their website Karen dot org Betsy AR 0 n dot org we’re your hosts some rich che recover drug addict my name is Jerry I’m a sober alcoholic coming up a little later on the show Chris bayshore is going to be joining us chris is going to talk about al-anon and also talk about the breakthrough program here at Karen it is incredible to break through program is a five and a half day residential program it is specifically designed for adults who are impacted by family or relationship dysfunction either in childhood or in adult life it’s a phenomenal program with incredible results I can’t wait for to get here you’re going to love it chris is coming up shortly also Glenn is going to be coming back he’s going to tell us how he came to accept a Power greater than ourselves a couple of program notes you can catch up prior episodes on youtube we have a channel there it’s slash trudged the road we also have a Facebook page and we have a Twitter account which is TTR show but in this particular segment as we start the show we want to talk about dealing with disappointment as addicted people disappointment is always magnified we all suffer disappointment you don’t have to be addicted to get disappointed however as I just mentioned take it to a new level we do we get extremely it gets blown out of proportion it I’ll give you an example a friend of mine will try to buy a new car recently and dead and couldn’t qualify for the loan didn’t get the loan through you know the first try oh the end of the world I’m not gonna I’m gonna die now because I don’t you know have this new car get this Carl and eventually he you know got a car loan and pay more interest but that disappointment turns into the end of the world in just a split sec I can relate to that same thing you know finding if I apply for a credit card I don’t get a credit card they don’t like me man oh Jesus just terrible I can give you a perfect example of disappointment and and let me predicate that by saying that in my recovery as many of you we always try to put God’s will first what does God want because the only thing I absolutely positively no is that God’s will is always good 100 scent of the time I know that that is a fact probably the only one I know but before I found recovery I worked in the broadcast and media and and it had a successful career unfortunately I destroyed it by my addiction and and it was gone people i think you know would say he’s a nice guy till he drinks and then all heck is gonna break loose and there’s gonna be an awful price to pay and that’s just a reality that was that was the truth I had drunk up my career in broadcasting it was over with and that was all right because by that time a few years into recovery I went back to school I became a social worker I was a chemical dependency counselor and and I worked right in the middle of addiction in poverty-stricken neighborhoods and I was completely dedicated and had given up on broadcasting because of my behavior you know that I am responsible I’m the one who did that but always in the back of my mind you know I wanted to get back into it I want to be back on TV I want to be on the radio but accepted to what was in front of me and made the best of it into recovery I camera has seven years seven or eight years and again i’m working in in louisville kentucky as a chemical dependency counselor i got contacted by a fella who i used to work with in communications and broadcasting and he was you know what what happened to you and I told him the story you know where I ended up where i was now and i was experiencing that happy joyous and free I was good and he mentioned that he was going to work in sports in the Western Athletic Conference and had thought about me as an announcer producer wow that I reminded him he you know of my past because it has been a significant amount of time has passed since I’ve taken a drug or a drink and again I’m dedicated to doing what I can to help the next alcoholic well he says you know you have you do sound like you’ve changed quite a bit maybe something can happen whoo here comes the opposite disappointment hope and then ego slides in there so I started asking him some questions like what kind of money and we had that kind of relationship you know well it was going to over quadruple the amount of my coke or I wasn’t exactly making a fortune there in the hood is a chemical defensive counselor plus we really based out of Las Vegas the Western Athletic Conference was where it was and that included UNLV University of Nevada Las Vegas University of Hawaii San Diego State Brigham Young Air Force Colorado State University just

incredible places to travel and especially during basketball season you’re on the road all the time can’t believe it this is great this is going to happen perfect for a single God absolutely absolutely and and that was one of the reasons that they considered me because I could travel easily well you know another couple of phone calls came some more questions talk to some other people great response you sound perfect I’m going I’m ready you know and I’m back I’m back and in my mind this is how sick it was uh I was thinking God was paying me back you know for being such a darn good social worker I was getting what I deserved you know here here’s a bomb plus two exactly if I was actually gonna get what I deserve we’d be in Leavenworth you know but in my money that’s it it was all thank you God night and I told this to my sponsor who kept saying where is God’s role in this whole thing and it is payback doc it’s paid you’re crazy don’t set yourself up another couple of phone calls up by this time you know I’m picking out the sport coat I’m going to be wearing as we all the time where those matching sport coats and right I’m gonna be looking good I call the Las Vegas Chamber of Commerce asking to send me all the information to about apartments and were to live in Vegas I mean I’m pumped I’m ready to go I’m telling my friends hey man it’s only gonna be a little bit of time I’m be moving to Vegas love you all this not having all these great things are happening to me I’m there I’m already there you know and and again I’ve got a sponsor who dis hmm tries to water this thing down and of course I just simply say you don’t know what you’re talking about crazy old man I’m the broadcaster I used to be I know how this works I am somebody all right well and then the phone rings that day man and if you ever had that where you pick up the phone and you just say hello and you can tell in an instant the demeanor on the other end this is going to give you bad news you know I just oh man oh man oh man oh man please please please please please it was that call you know somebody up the ladder it had done some investigating and they didn’t have to go very deep but I assure you to find out my record you know and and I’m sure made a wise business decision I don’t want that drunk monkey on my broadcast team I don’t care we’ve been sober eight nine years I don’t care I don’t want him not worth the risk not worth the risk and if he looked anywhere deep into my record well he made an appropriate decision I have to say that that would be a good business decision if he didn’t know me personally and of course he did not know me personally but you did not feel that at the time certainly did it now didn’t I I felt that word that you brought up disappointment on a level that is just difficult to articulate and impossible to define a depression and anger of fear how could this happen and mad at God how could you do this to me and again I’m constantly reminded where was God have to do with anything here you know and but I was still mad because I thought this was my payback and I thought that this is some kind of horrible Joe how can you do this to me you are wrecking my life everything was going to be perfect and now it’s ruined you see when we talked about with disappointment that’s what I was feeling that’s what I was saying and to get over that I wish I could tell you that I just popped into a couple of meetings and everything was just bang bang good again it was not it took time it took time for me in a process of working with a sponsor and some other very spiritual people with an Alcoholics Anonymous to accept that you know I do work for the family business i am a chemical dependency counselor i am making a difference on the street that maybe God needs me there to get your ego out of the way and add a little bit of humility and I wish I could say that that just happened but it didn’t it took time time time and eventually you know six eight months down the road I was I had accepted it still wasn’t happy with it but I had accepted as rail was ready to move on I thought you know but still in the back of my mind you know I just want this anyway I’m home this is about nine months after this happened for lunch there my apartment little penthouse on the gate a lovely place having lunch and I’ve got ESPN on and and they come across with a flash that the broadcast team in the wac the Western Athletic Conference on a flight from Laramie Wyoming to to Denver crashed and there were no survivors now if I got my way if Jarrett would have got not only what he wanted but was demanding and was putting demands on God for well I would have been on that plane and I’d be dead many many years and so there I am sitting in the quiet of this apartment I have just found out this news and now I know God knows and God knows I know we all know the cats out of the bag you know and I can just feel him going what do you think now Jared you know and see it was God’s will for me not to die you know and in that level of disappointment that anger and all that fear and frustration in behavior that i put other people through was just

completely a waste of energy it’s difficult as impossible to say that i wouldn’t be disappointed but I never considered that maybe God’s will for me was something else maybe God’s will for me was to do this radio program well that certainly couldn’t happen obviously if I was dead you know so God’s will no matter what is always good and I predicate that with every prayer you know any time I’m I’m talking to God and I do I just converse with God over issues in my life and I’ll end it your will be done not mine because I’ve got a record oh I’ve got a record it so you’ve got a record Jerry take a look at that you know and it’s not good that’s why I count on his will to be done in my life because my will because of that record than that proof is very rarely right you know and in this particular situation you know where that level of disappointment is undefinable you turn it around eight months later and and you find out and you find out and that’s got to be one of the most extreme cases of a complete turnaround that I think I have ever yeah but when you suffer disappointment as you do throughout all the years afterwards are you reflect upon something like that and go well ok say you to get the car loan like you were talking about earlier you have to work through that and think well there’s gotta be a reason I didn’t get this car loan maybe there’s a different car maybe that car is not the car that I was supposed to get or you start working through that if you want to you know go through all of that you can but there’s a much simpler way and that’s just to turn it over just you know when it when it starts getting complicated my emotions become involved with with my intellect and especially in a situation where i need to be decisive I need to get out of the way you know God’s will be done not mine and just step back because life is full of disappointments you know when the Washington Redskins lose dwells disappointment I have to put up with you you know that’s disappointment but but it’s something that you’re over with by Monday afternoon well yeah unless the season ends the way it always has which is with them in the basement and of course a stinking up the place but then this year you think about how it all played out well they got a shot at rg3 so now we’ve got rg3 so that would have never happened had the Redskins had a a mediocre season or even a winning season at that so in it was part of the plan I didn’t see it coming but then rg3 was available boom so you look at it from a different angle ladies and gentlemen you’ve just witnessed disappointment turned to absolute joy you know I’m just following along with you here bro you are there man and that’s what it is you know there’s always another side to the coin but life is full of little disappointment he says life on life’s terms I can give you another example you know my wife and I were looking for a house about five years ago we had this house we thought wow this is the house we really want to get it and for whatever reason we got underbid on the house and we didn’t get the house well as life would have it and this is kind of a weird story we it was a house that we were renting and we wanted to get the house well we came back to get our final load out of the house before we moved into the new house that we ended up getting which we weren’t as happy with as the old house and I swear to you this is true the road was blocked as we were coming in and we asked the emergency guy that was standing on the side of what happened and he said a car went through that house up there and went right through the front room that front room had we got that house and had we stayed in that house we would have been on that couch when that car went all the way through and it’s the weirdest thing because it’s kind of a back road and somehow the girl driving it the story gets weirder the girl driving had spilled coffee on her lap and jerked the wheel and it ended up going over the driveway in through the front room where we would have been sleeping or laying or watching TV oh my god turns out the girl was rushed to the hospital and when she was in there they did a brain scan on her and found out that she had a tumor in her brain and that accident saved her life how weird is that that’s phenomenal that’s a true story it has to be yeah I’ll a you know you look at the disappointment I’m not getting the house in the series of events that took place afterwards you’re looking at God just acting anonymously there he is with his fingers in watching out for us all the dang time in several cases we just brought up here and in its and again that’s our problem lack of power it’s clear in the book that is our dilemma we have to find a power in our life by which we can live and you can define that yourself as God as you choose to understand him or her and and develop that relationship and be able to live happy joyous and free even with life’s disappointment yes so next time you’re disappointed by something step back for a few minutes and you’ll find out exactly why some things happen thinking that Dory rich just told my lord that’s wonderful Chris bayshore is coming up next she’s going to talk about Al Anon and also the breakthrough program here at Karen treasure road sponsored by Karen treatment centers Karen a non-profit leading provider of drug and alcohol addiction treatment Karen specializes in men’s and women’s services as well as young adult males

and females plus a relapse program and outpatient services if you’re concerned about yourself or a loved one call one eight hundred 85 for 60 23 or go to their website Karen org that’s see a ro n org I give a shout out to Mary Blair who helps us so much that Mary Blair is great Mary you rock yeah Mary Mary works up with my curly Mike earliest vice president at Karen treatment centers don’t be fooled marriage show Mary is running on a show and she she’s great about getting us guests and working with us to make sure that we have everything we need to do this program each week as i mentioned chris bayshore is coming up next this is the trudge the road radio network you’re listening to trudge the road coming up Jerry is joined by Chris bayshore and they discuss al-anon and the breakthrough program at Karen it’s next on the trudge of the road radio network is a new face of recovery and you see it in the pages of renew magazine and at renew every day com renew and renew every day com are changing the face of recovery for good each issue is filled with positive role models life-affirming stories encouragement and ideas to help any life and recovery whether you’re already enjoying an addiction free life have a loved one facing these challenges or are considering recovery renew and renew every day calm can support and inspire you join us check out renew every day calm to learn more hi everyone welcome to trudge the road trudge the rotas radio program dedicated of people who suffer from the disease of addiction to alcohol and to drugs and every bit as important family and friends you suffer immensely we know you’ve got a lot of questions hopefully we’ll be able to provide you some answers and ultimately with God’s good grace some solutions to this dilemma treads wrote is sponsored by the care and treatment centers karen is a non-profit leading provider of drug and alcohol addiction treatment with treatment facilities in Pennsylvania Florida and Texas offices in Bermuda Boston New York Philadelphia and Washington DC they can be reached by calling 800 850 for 60 23 or go to their website which is Karen org that CA ro n dot org shout out the father bill and Reverend Jack couple of the great people who work at Karen one of the great people who works at Karen’s name is Chris and she’s here with us right now how are you Chris I’m good good morning good morning Q for coming by i really appreciate that i know that this is kind of a strange situation to be in with all these microphones and this is just not your normal environment no it’s not it’s a little intimidating but i’m here by the grace of god and so i’m just gonna let it become as it comes that’s how it happens that’s how it’s going to happen it’s going to be just find out Chris you work a for Karen but not in the therapeutic aspect of the treatment center bit more in the business end of things that’s exactly right i have been working at care for 12 years i oversee our human resources and training departments and I help help find all these qualified and wonderful and passionate dedicated counselors who help the patients well let me tell you you do the best job in the world the people here are unbelievable we just love being here just to pick up on the energy you know it’s just fantastic now listen a little bit about your story here we’re not going to talk about what you do with human resources but about your own experience strength and hope and what got you into al-anon and we talk a lot about Alan on here on trudged the road and that was the beginning of your breakthrough and we’ll get to break through here in just a bit but tell us a little bit about what brought you into the rooms of Allen on the addiction in your life absolutely about well ten years ago I married a man who I’m still happily married to who is 35 years in recovery and he certainly has been a lot of time and has been a lot of time in in the rooms so he first introduced me to al-anon but what really drove me into al-anon was that we were intervening on my father mm-hmm and we were my father’s a highly functioning alcoholic had been for many many years and we were about to truly do an intervention on him which was one of the most intimidating things we’ve ever done and I knew I needed help and support all right into really so we end up in the rooms of alanine so your dilemma really is almost the same as an alcoholics it’s a power you don’t have that power by what you can live exactly exactly now it is it is it common and it has just been through you know work as a therapist that I have found people in al-anon was as they begin to practice the steps become aware of other issues maybe even before they encounter the alcoholic or the addict in their life traumatic events possibly when they were younger or previous relationships that really have been emotionally kind of caged up that will allow you know as this process of healing they they come to light this is not uncommon is it no it’s not uncommon at all I mean I’ve always felt like I was blessed that I didn’t have so much that came up for me you know again I was I had a fairly stable even given my highly functioning alcoholic father at a fairly stable childhood but when I

had to start to peel away the layers at what was really at some of the core of my issues what was happening for me here at times here comes and and for me it was all around relationships how I had looked for a relationship how I had duck on to relationships that were not healthy at all for me any longer and how I got into that dynamic that put me in some pretty difficult and not healthy situations for sure this brings us to break through which is a program at Karen it’s it’s not a new program as it’s got a lot of history to it all the way back to nineteen eighty four and one of the things that in the literature about the breakthrough program it says moving from merely surviving to to healthy living and breaking through now you know there have been times in my own recovery over the last quarter of a century where there were walls you know and I found help-seeking either therapeutically outside of the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous or through just some intensive work with with a sponsor that would delve into those specifics and try and break through those walls here is a program that has been it’s a five and a half day residential program I don’t want to I want you to tell everybody about it but I I’ve seen the before and after and and hits it’s amazing I think that you should take the photograph of everybody’s face as they go in with that that that look of concern and in question and then the five and a half days later it really is amazing it is amazing I want you to tell us what breakthrough is and what it did for you I agree when I left breakthrough and I went to my normal friday night al-anon meeting one of my friends came up to me and said you look like you lost five pounds like and I was like what do you mean they say you just look so much lighter you’re exactly right into exactly but you go in there and you’re scared to death because you know that this is not gonna be this not like you’re going off to a spot for the moon you know you’re gonna do intense work and you know you’re gonna peel the layers away and that that’s going to get rough and so what it really is the five days is really prepping to do that peeling away of the layers and then it’s the actual peeling away so the first couple days they talk just a lot about family dynamics the roles that each of us play as a typical person in an alcoholic family because most most people that go in there are from an alcoholic family either whether they’re also in recovery themselves or they have a fair amount of trauma that they’re dealing with so its first just talking about what is the dysfunctional family look like what are some of the typical roles that someone plays like like we talked about like I was the caregiver I was the hero of the family I was the fixer of everything and then after you kind of get that as a I guess a backdrop then you start to really do your own family structuring which is where you’re telling your family’s story but you’re utilizing other people in there in in your group to help they represent people in your family and you are really getting to the core of what drove you there because I always say that the reason I went to breakthrough is because I was stuck I was stuck in my marriage I was stuck professionally I was stuck personally I was stuck with my family dynamic of my family of origin and my father and my mother and so I was stuck and I needed something to get me unstuck and so it’s very very painful but it is extremely enlightening and what you start to do is really say here is my family here was my experience as a child or here’s the trauma that I experienced in my life and so it’s only from your perception which is wonderful because one of the things I think at least from my perspective from an Alan honors we always had to prove to somebody what we really saw because there’s allies in aisle and an alcoholic family oh yeah so you know as always yes my father really is an alcoholic or someone proving that their spouse really was or that their sister was or whatever their story was and so what breaks through is wonderful bad as they come in and they just want your perception they want your reality of your childhood of your family of origin and what in that created you to be the person that you were and what was holding you back from at this it you know if I can use the words emotional surgery I don’t know maybe that’s just too much but that’s kind of what it sounds like it is it is it now they get you ready they prep you for surgery if you want to use that analogy but at that moment when you go through and what’s what’s interesting is not only do you learn from your own family dynamic but you are participating in the other people in your group so in somebody’s in their family structure you may be representing a spouse or a mother or father or of sibling and so some of what you experience is not just from the time that you go in that you use that as your Center work of what your life was like you also learned from others because you’re helping them play out their issues which would be the my big issue in this thing is going to be fear you know i am going to be afraid of it i

come from a family of secrets and and to be able to open myself up to that degree is going to be very very difficult let me give you an example here just on another side I had back surgery recently and I was I was in a lot of pain you know but I was petrified of that surgery I was so scared to death of that that I was almost wanted to live with the pain rather than have it you know but face to the fear the reality was over with and all sudden I don’t have any pain anymore you know wonder what was I so afraid about but and he disagree with me if you will for me I really think that we suffer from the disease of fear and that alcohol and drugs are our medicine absolutely and I think that there’s so much shame involved whether it’s for the you’re in recovery yourself or whether you came from a family of addiction because no one is proud of what they did I shouldn’t say no one but certainly I wasn’t proud of of all of my coping mechanisms which were certainly not healthy and there was a lot of other people who weren’t proud with their coping mechanisms and I always go back to you know what’s something that was said to me during that time which is you know you do the best you can with what you know at that time and so that kind of alleviates shame because we do a whole exercise when you’re a breakthrough around how do you give that shame up how do you turn that over and get rid of it because it’s one of the things that’s holding you back it was a shame was the thing that kept me drunk and in all honesty because if you look at my record I spent almost 12 years in and out in and out in and out and I would do those fourth steps but I would always keep that that’s going with me to the grave you know so it obviously would never go into the fifth step and certainly six eight months down and shame-based all of a shame base would come back haunt me I couldn’t cope with that and you know what the results were yeah so you know and a lot of it I in my particular case and I want to make this about me but culturally the way that I was brought up things of shame i were really really bad you know and to even tolerate them in your conscience was was a difficult procedure to try to alleviate them and I’ve done that in a fifth step and I’ve done it successfully and it has worked but I can see you know where they’re still is is is is wound of still some bleeding somewhere down there yeah absolutely and that everybody’s got that that fire in their belly that’s still there and so it’s how do you get in there how do you do the surgery on that fire the belly get it back out you know get it out so that you can move forward and and that’s really what breakthrough is about and so you have to be in a very safe environment I mean I always blessed and I think everyone feels this way that they’re put in there put in with a group of people that you know as some as one of my my friends used to say is it odd or is it God I mean you know you put into a group that those folks represent so many things of what you need to hear and see but you have to feel safe right and the counselors and the staff at breakthrough make you feel safe they it is unconditional love for that week that you are there they are there just for the sole purpose of helping you move forward it’s it sounds incredibly intense and we know of its success has been proven for years and years and the tip of the hat to Ann Smith she’s a wonderful wonderful therapist and a delightful person as you have certainly been here today thank you so much for coming we really appreciate it thank you for letting me share my story it has been one I hope we have your back you know yeah because we need to continue talking about this I can see it in your eyes girl I can see the success in your eyes it’s wonderful hey listen thank you very much we’ll be back in it let me tell everybody treads wrote is brought to you by Karen treatment centers karen is a non-profit leading provider of drug and alcohol addiction specializing in men’s and women’s services as well as young adult males and females they have a relapse prevention program and outpatient services if you’re concerned about yourself or a loved one give them a call at 808 5460 23 or go to the website Karen org that CA ro an org be back with more treads road in just a moment on the trudge the road radio network you’re listening to trudge the road coming up Glenn Goodman joined Jerry and discusses how he came to accept a Power greater than himself it’s next on the tread the road radio network treads wrote his radio program which is dedicated to folks who suffer from the disease of addiction to alcohol and to drugs and everybody is important family and friends you suffered tremendously and we know that you have lots and lots of questions and hopefully we’ll be able to provide some answers to this dilemma and with God’s good grace maybe some solutions for your trudged road is brought to you by some very cool people that care and treatment centers Karen’s a non-profit leading provider of drug and alcohol addiction treatment now they’ve got treatment centers in Pennsylvania Florida and Texas offices in Bermuda Boston the Big Apple Philly and DC you can reach them by calling 800

850 for 60 23 I suggest their website which is Karen org that’s CA ro an org see a ro an org incredibly wonderful people and we appreciate that Glenn Goodman is here with us Glenn works at the care and treatment centers but he’s my big book daddy and then of course that’s the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous is our guide and I love to talk about it and and so does he and it does bring the answer or the solution to our dilemma if you will and I thought specifically we might address that by looking at we agnostics the chapter in the big book which states lack of power that was our dilemma lack I always thought you know was alcohol and drugs but no a lack of power that’s our dilemma we had to find a power by which we could live and it had to be a Power greater than ourselves obviously but where and how were we to find this power of course that’s what this book of Alcoholics Anonymous the big book is all about but this Power greater than ourselves and I think that that kind of grows as we mature within our sobriety can be anything and if you will Glenn give us your perspective as a man with many years of solid recovery a counselor and a fellow who knows this book definitely changes over time you know finding a Power greater than ourselves at least for me was difficult powerlessness a–‘s really goes against every cell in my body and most everybody else that I’ve talked to and worked with in this program it just accepting powerlessness is tough you know that surrender piece is something that doesn’t happen easily for people you know I’m an assuming too for a man who spent four years in the United States Marines the word surrender probably really isn’t much much in your vocabulary wasn’t allowed in there lies the difficulty for everybody not so much as the military influence but basically that giving up piece that internalized belief system that we have that says I gotta figure this out or you know what I mean just that drive to come to solutions you know men just fix things right right you know and and to admit defeat means weakness and those internal beliefs needed to really change as a matter of fact in the book it says that and I’ll quote here we were bothered with the thought that faith in dependence upon a power beyond ourselves was somewhat weak even cowardly and for me the most of that was about I really didn’t have enough information to ever give you know the the religion that I was brought up on a chance not that I practice any organized religion today but I you know heck they spoke Latin still in the hit same here as you know Sammy I know what the heck they were saying somebody gave me something that was really helpful for me and I pass it on every chance I get and that’s that if you want to seek a Power greater than yourself and you’re struggling with the with the God image if there’s a struggle there why not look for truth and allow truth based in your own evidence to become you know a Power greater than you at this point you know I grabbed on to that and you know there was pretty much no denying where my life was at when I was coming in and and the truth was not pretty although it was based in fact and and I couldn’t candy-coat it or I couldn’t manipulate it you know especially when I put it on paper you know then the truth kind of stands back and look at looks at you so you know finding truth was really my first experience in accepting a guidance in my life apps it is it is a struggle you know just to let go in the beginning is so magnificent and then to accept something that is not tangible is is is difficult minimum now you know I in the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous i think is where i got my first taste of it because i saw it in other people I saw it working in people’s lives something was going on in their lives that again wasn’t tangible that I could put my finger on but I could see the change that I could see the results in time that happened try I’m not right away I believed you all were a bunch of liars it was it will give us this and mostly I did too i thought yeah you know you were all full of it about you give us the story you walked in the door and you thought well these people are nuts well with the blessing that was for me was there was guys in there that i was on the streets with uh uh and and you know i mean i still thought they were full of you know what but you know they kind of took me under their arm it was difficult i don’t know if i wanted to stop using i thought i wanted to you know getting control of it like most every addict alcohol was go to just want to get it under control

yeah yeah because the spiral in life was heading to the toilet face real fast yeah and and these fellows took me under their arm and and they gave me you know the time the dignity and the respect you know that that we didn’t really give each other out in the streets you know but in there you know there was something different about him mm-hmm didn’t know what that was you saw it too yeah yeah there was something different about him and I didn’t have a clue what that was but it was attractive mm-hmm when did you feel it when did when did you get kind of that sense of it somewhat right away but I really fought it mm-hmm you know I you know that powerlessness I just fought it it’s like when I surrendered it was an overwhelming experience that the fight was over right you know at least the beatings over you know yeah it was like the war was over in that lie a great deal of peace you know that that I don’t have to fight anymore I have no clue how to do life on life’s terms I don’t have to fight anymore and that was well over a year year and a half in in recovery you know I mean I pretended because I heard fake it till you make it yeah and I pretended I wanted to get well I want it to be well but I was by no means well though by no means you know all the attitudes all the beliefs all the behaviors were still pretty present and I was bumping into powerlessness every day about 150,000 times you say he is it but not you know not not doing well not dealing with it really well not accepting it you know thinking that I can do something different thinking that I know better we’re really were you know dominating well yeah ideas it is the kind of the clash of just our culture that tells us we are supposed to men fix that stuff and the ego that goes on top of it which is is so threatened and beat up because we can’t mm-hmm you know I think that’s you know that they called the the jumping off point yeah the progression that you made so it’s a year year and a half into this was there anything significantly to find it in the steps but what made the change that gave you at least the courage to maybe believe that I can take this spirituality thing one step further my way wasn’t working put it in a nutshell and talking about moving into powerlessness so many times throughout the day you know you get tired of making amends so I was the same thing over and over and over again and it piece by piece that surrender occurs like I used to hear we give it up in millimeters you know that that power that struggle for power and that’s basically what it was for me is that struggle for power I thought nobody else has ever done it for me you know what I mean so there wasn’t a lot of that I could identify with to help except me mm and Boyd and I’d make a miserable failure of that and and you know to have to depend on something I can’t see feel hear taste touch was at foreign to me alien so the truth was really what i was getting up against every day every day so accepting the truth then basically as at higher or the fact that reality is what it is and I’m going to have to cope with it and deal with it on the mechanisms of life that I have right which were minimal they work most eccentric so they needed to change everything we stand shame yeah that’s what it was quintile here comes that counterintuitive measurements that we have to take the I don’t want to do that you know and facing that fact so you know a year and a half into this i’m assuming then that you have made some changes along the way yeah subtle small changes you know the definition in the back of the book where it talks about spiritual experience it says something along the lines that others notice it in you before you notice it yourself and you know I i really wasn’t seeing any change in myself that I could Bank on right ground I’m saying right right down and take through the back end yeah my automatic behaviors were when I wasn’t thinking i would go back and do the same thing i think the the turnaround or the turning point that came for me was when finally a case that with the legal people came to enclose which revealed instead of five to fifteen it revealed promotion fines and costs and the lawyer that I had found in in recovery was just a gift from God because you know he took a monetary figure 4a you know to get him acquire him and then he never charged me another nickel cuz he said he’s hardly ever gets a case that works out this way and so he said enjoy your life and for from that point on there was something different you felt the intervention yeah

yeah I felt something different there you know and that was very special this is one of those occasions where I almost this wish this was television the expression on your face is you tell that’s where it completely changes yeah and I can tell you’re still quite moved by that but that sounds like you’ve got now quite a foundation hmm yeah yeah you know I’ve got you know I not my power group greater than me today is the god of my understanding and that power although I can’t see it feel it touch it I have come to know that it’s there not believe any longer come to know and that was a process of coming to believe and it came as a result of the experiences the many experiences collected along the way phage for me has become the result of experiences and in losing an eight-year-old boy to cancer you know experiences of my you know mother dying experiences of you know feeling like I’m at a financial end and something just pops up you know whenever I sit in an eleven step meeting you know what I mean that the piece just comes over me because I know that no matter what comes down the pike today we can we can handle it my support network the Power greater than me we can hand I’m gonna get through it and I’m gonna be okay I may not get what I want but I have always every time gotten what I needed and that’s a blessing you’re a blessing Glenn thank you so very much having you here our regular basis is just absolutely a gift thank you my pleasure that’s wonderful that’s Glenn he works here by the way I Karen and we appreciate that will find out more about what it does as time goes on we’re to go over the steps i’m going to get to know this guy a whole lot better and i’m sure you want to after that wonderful interview thank you do that appreciate it treads road sponsored by karen treatment centers a non-profit leading provider of drug and alcohol addiction treatment karen specializes in men’s and women’s services as well as young adult males and females plus i’ve had a relapse program and yes outpatient services so listen if you are concerned about yourself if you’re concerned about a loved one call them 800 850 for 6023 go to their website Karen org that’s CA ro n org this is trudged the road on the trudge the road radio network you’re listening to trudge the road coming up rich and Jerry and they discuss the lengths that addicts and alcoholics go to to keep being addicts and alcoholics it’s next on the treads of the road radio network there is a new face of recovery and you see it in the pages of renew magazine and at BIR new everyday calm renew and renew every day calm are changing the face of recovery for good each issue is filled with positive role models life-affirming stories encouragement and ideas to help any life and recovery whether you’re already enjoying an addiction free life have a loved one facing these challenges or are considering recovery renew and renew every day calm can support and inspire you join us check out renew every day calm to learn more welcome back to trudge the road sponsored by Karen treatment centers Karen a non-profit leading provider of drug and alcohol addiction treatment with treatment facilities in Pennsylvania Florida Texas and offices in Bermuda Boston New York Philadelphia and the nation’s capital they can be reached by calling 1-800 854 6023 or you can go to their website Karen org Betsy a are oh n dot org we’re your hosts I’m rich a recovered drug addict my name is Jerry I’m a sober alcoholic and our program here trudged the road is dedicated to people who suffer from the disease of addiction to alcohol and to drugs and of course family members out there you suffer immensely and we know that and we know you have a lot of questions and that’s our purpose here is to answer as many of those questions as we possibly can and with God’s grace provide a solution to this dilemma so far great show big thanks to Chris bayshore who talked with us about Alan on and the breakthrough program at Karen that breakthrough program is absolutely amazing I’m serious as I’d love to go through it Glenn also big thank you for coming back and talking about a Power greater than ourselves and how he came to accepted especially since he had a lot of difficulty with with that and as a lot of people do say it comes down to that that surrender thing and for him it was so difficult because he was a u.s Marine for years and years and that word surrender just is not in there other than their language at all now if you missed that portion of the show this will be posted up on YouTube and you can catch that by going to slash trudged the road radio and we have all our past shows up there as well facebook if you’re not a friend of ours on facebook become one just go to slash trudged the road radio and of course we have a twitter feed as well where I send out messages and links and things of that nature we appreciate that just put in the search

engine TTR show we want to talk about addiction and addicts and the lengths we go to to keep being addicts and alcoholics is the way that we know what we fool you earth people as we say because if your brains don’t go the same way that ours do and regardless of what your drug of choice is once you cross that line and you’re in the addictive mode you’ll do whatever it takes to make sure that that supply is either they’re taken care of or is coming in and it becomes really your only priority and its really kind of settled in the way it starts in ways that just aren’t normal in society let me give you an example I had this old car and I think it was a Chevy whether it comes Yvette’s remember Chevy Chevette they were a wonderful automobile but what I did is you know where the windshield wiper reservoir is in the automobile in the engine compartment we put the windshield wiper fluid washer when shall I clean that out the best that I possibly could and filled it with 100 proof vodka and then the hose that runs up to the windshield to squirt the windshield wiper on the windshield so you can get clean I pulled in it to the car so it was just hanging right by where the emergency brake was by my left foot next to the clutch so at any time all I had to do was hit wash and it would pump out a shot of vodka into a coffee cup right into the car now that if you’re if you’re not an addicted person that thought never has even entered your mind in the most obscure matter however if you are an addicted person number one you’re the same well that was a pretty good idea or I did that myself you know and it’s those extremes we’d go to and i can remember an instant and an incident specifically where a young lady and i were going out we were going to a bar and we’re traveling this automobile and i came up to a stoplight and grabbed a coffee cup and hit wash and filled it up with some motor vodka and and she said to me what what are you doing i’m having a shot of motor vodka and i remember i’ll never forget the look on her face you know it she turned to me and said these exact word dude you have got a problem if that’s the problem I’ve got this thing licked I’ve got no problem what so ever drank that vodka went to the bar now if there’s an addicted person out there right now you’re going to completely understand this I drank four times as much as anybody else and I was the only one there who was not drunk that’s an alcoholic and that’s our incredible level of tolerance now I may go home and have another drink you may go home and not a different person and have a drink you go to the cabinet and pull out the liquor bottle not me I go to the toilet tank where it’s floating in the back so you won’t find all of those obscure things and obscure places and we’re doing these behaviors on a daily basis and this is this is the insanity of the diseases we don’t see that that we’re doing anything abnormal we’re doing what comes to us as normal and that’s how sick we become and how it progresses and gets worse and worse and worse and worse and how it will affect the family members just imagine what it was like being married to me when that was my kind of behavior or dating me being a being that my parent just so incredibly frustrating because you would never consider these modes of behavior that would never cross your mind and when you’re presented with them you how do you deal with that how do you my son is doing what he’s got vodka in the reservoir of the windshield wiper fluid mechanism in the car and he’s drinking vodka out of that and he’s hiding vodka in the toilet tank well what am I going to how does this even enter his head how does this there’s this behavior become rationalized it’s because of the disease of addiction it is the insanity of it and that becomes the progressive day-to-day way that we function is protect that supply have the supply handy at all times and never ever let it be interfere with well you know it also lends itself to secrecy which is a topic we’ve talked about because we do a lot of this on the sly you may have shared it with that girl in the seat next to you because well let’s face it it was kind of cool for you and I don’t think I had any type of a problem I really i thought I’ve got this I can drink better than you can well that’s part of the first step is admitting you have a problem so until we hit that first step we don’t think we have a problem we just think we’re pretty smart and an ingenious look what I did look where I’ve gone when I was when I was out running around and I was you know crystal meth I mean let’s face it it much like an alcoholic you can’t tell the truth or a Lyle fit I mean that’s just the circle and that’s the bottom line and stashing and hiding and taking off the top making the bag light if you will I mean this is all just part of a daily nature every line no matter no matter when I was confronted no matter what someone said to me I had a stash of lies that was already in my head to pretty much adapt to any particular situation it’s funny we were just out this weekend my wife and I we were at a little cabin up in the mountains and you don’t get any cell service and you don’t get any internet and we were isolated

very isolated but there was a little river running back there and my wife can’t swim and I said to her you know don’t go anywhere without me being there because I can swim and of course I’ll be your hero and she said yes didn’t you save somebody’s life before I went oh yeah that’s right I went and saved an old couple out of the canal one time which is a running joke between us because that was an excuse I had used many years ago on why I disappeared for three days when I was out on a drug binge you know we just can’t tell the truth and it lends itself again I’ll just repeat myself here it lends itself to the secret nature of our addicted behavior the secret nature that’s right out in the open and that’s the problem we’re blind everybody is blind to this too we just we can’t see what’s happening right in front of our eyes we have to wait until there’s consequences and in our case some very very severe consequences what really is it’s the insanity the insanity that bill is talking about in the second step it it doesn’t mean the insane things that we we do when we’re drunk not at not addicted people do crazy things when they’re drunk what he meant by that insanity in the second step is that anyone after a period of physical sobriety who would return to drinking again that’s the insanity he refers to in the second step and and that is absolutely the most insane thing that you could possibly do when you get some time and to examine what you have done rationally and have it explained to you with a clear mind and see the damage and the consequences of it and then drink again and then do it again absolutely positively insane and that’s where he’s using that word and and that certainly applies to you and me there were consequences after consequences bottom after bottom and devastation after devastation and we would still go back and do it again this time it’s going to be different this time it’s going to be better this time I won’t do that will tell those lies to ourselves when we know when we know for a fact exactly what’s going to happen we know what’s going to happen and we do it anyway that’s a level of insanity that we have that is just really indefinable and kind of limited to those of us who were addicted to drugs and alcohol and of course confronting someone who is currently in that process that thought processes I mean it’s a scary proposition if you know someone in your life that’s going through this and you call the hey look I found a bottle of vodka in the back of the toilet tank what’s the deal what’s what’s the respond what’s the response you would it a mine I don’t know how I got there that’s yours I don’t know what you’re talking about I feel deny deny deny to the point where the person who is accusing you of this or who was made to who has found that that they think they’re crazy those you know you we are so adamant about the fact that our behavior did not happen even when it’s right in your face that we are so convincing that you begin to question yourself am I the one is nuts am I the one who’s Christian that’s how we suck you into the vortex of this disease and how people we love gets so incredibly sick it’s simply this sanity and insanity clash they won’t tolerate each other sanity and insanity clash the problem is insanity is the one that wins because insanity doesn’t have to tell the truth insanity doesn’t have to even put a reality into a perspective we can look at it any way we want and again the more it clashes with with sanity sanity just goes away this is trudge the road is sponsored by Karen treatment centers karen is a non-profit leading provider of drug and alcohol addiction treatment karen specializes in men’s and women’s services as well as young adult males and females plus a relapse program and outpatient services if you’re concerned about yourself or a loved one called 1 800 850 60 23 or you can go to their website karen org that’s see a r 0 n dot or Jerry thank you very much thank you rich thank you everybody for listening we appreciate it we love you and we pray for you this is the trudge the road radio network you’ve been listening to tread the road if you want to catch prior episodes just go to youtube and type Treach the road radio in the search engine and thank you for listening on this great radio station which is part of the tread the road radio network