О Духовной Благодати

Tatiana: Hello, dear friends Igor Mikhailovich: Greetings Hello, Igor Mikhailovich Greetings It’s a pleasure to see you today I would like to talk to you about the following subject As of today, everywhere around the world, in various religious denominations, there is a large number of people who really strive for God And this impulse of theirs is very pure, sincere and open At one time in their lives, these people indeed felt a contact with God, and this very unforgettable feeling of inner grace It would be amusing if people who belong to religious organizations were not experiencing this feeling, right? But, perhaps, the ways It’s only fitting that they feel it Although, if we talk about this honestly, then still, unfortunately, not all come to service in religious organizations, let’s say, by their soul’s call Many come just as to get a job, everyone in different ways, everyone has his own path But, actually, as of today, thank God, there are still those who really strive for God by the call of their heart. As it is said they come precisely to serve God Thank God, such people still exist This feeling is very familiar to me since childhood as well as this inner search for God, an aspiration to re-establish this dialogue, which unfortunately, was being lost Yet, this feeling sort of accompanied me throughout life, and it appeared somehow independently of me That is, I didn’t know when it would appear, but I definitely knew in those moments that IM: You were hoping that this would happen T: I was hoping that this would be constant T: And there was always this aspiration to re-establish that dialogue IM: Indeed, it’s enough to feel a contact with something warm, sincere and real once, IM: and you always want to repeat this experience T: Yes, and there is also such a point that there was no knowledge of how to stay in this dialogue, let’s say… IM: Always T: Always. Yes IM: But actually, this is not a dialogue And here, let’s say, a little nuance arises In religions, it is said that a human being must always stay in dialogue with God And this is important, this is necessary. A prayer, an appeal to God – all this goes through the internal But here, there are a lot of such changes that have unfortunately occurred over ages, and the tools have been lost And all this is shifting to kind of not a dialogue, but rather a monologue And a person is constantly trying to converse with God, addresses Him And when he receives a response, which always happens upon such manifestation, though it’s difficult to describe it in words – well, those who have gone through this experience, those do know that these are the feelings that are incomparable to anything, Even when the experience is short-lived, these people are certain to step on the path of faith And they, as a rule, adhere to it. Why? Because nothing earthly is comparable to that bliss which a person gets while in contact with the Spirit This is precisely like a kind of God’s blessing, when, as they say, the Holy Spirit descends upon one, and a person comes into contact with it – this is when everything sings in one’s soul Of course, this is the truth T: It is just that, when you are learning the way of how easy it is to feel a contact with the Spiritual World, then you feel a need to share this – to share the knowledge of this easy way – with people Because you feel that there are a lot of people who crave and sincerely aspire with an open heart, who have simply got confused They are going, I don’t know how to say this… IM: But they are not going in circles In actual fact, they are striving, are forcing their way through, but the one who is called the devil in religion, meaning, our consciousness stands in their way And consciousness, as we already know and have talked about this many times, – it is nothing but a part of the whole system The system – this is exactly that devil And even in ancient times, the Saints, they were always saying that the devil leads astray, demons whisper, just don’t listen to them, and so on Well, if we examine what they were talking about, they were talking about our consciousness Here, it is important to understand that, say, there is such an oriental wisdom, and Prophet Muhammad was talking about this as well, that Allah, meaning God, He is much closer than the carotid artery But few people know that the devil is also as close as the carotid artery, and perhaps even closer We have two arteries, and we are dual-natured And in reality, it turns out that God is close, and the devil is close This is what confuses people Because consciousness, it always twists everything, always takes everything to…

Let’s say, to something directly opposite to spiritual longings and aspirations This is the path to which it always leads one, to the path of fight, to the path of sorrow, grief And here, if we note, people who, as you’ve just said, had experienced this feeling, I mean, the true feelin of God’s Love, then they subsequently got depressed, they are always in anguish, in suffering, in search And this very sadness, this very suffering – it is a bad helper, let’s say T: It estranges one from God IM: Certainly I also like how some people say, “You shouldn’t be sad, you should love God Even if you don’t have a reason to rejoice, you have a blessing – so rejoice.” This says nothing It is the same as an order “Drop down and give me twenty” There is an order, so you do push-ups as long as you have strength Well, and same here – to rejoice. Well, how can one rejoice when one is under control of the system? But it has everything the other way around Though, again, demons are tricky, they also throw in joy and all sorts of things, and they create illusions This is actually such a… Quite a wide topic, quite a serious one – this topic that you have touched on now T: There’s also an interesting point that when there is no knowledge and there is an aspiration to re-establish this connection with God IM: Again, what does it mean there is no knowledge? There is huge experience, experience of the path which many Saints have followed, isn’t this so? T: And you know, I could feel this moment very well, because anyway I was searching, was searching, in the first place for… was searching for those people who also felt the same thing as I did T: And I was able to find such people IM: How can it be any other way? T: But, of course, I mostly found just some text, theory But there were also people who have really shared their practical experience And I always felt that there was something dear, and there was… IM: That the person is not a liar and is telling the truth T: Not a liar and is telling the truth IM: And notice, oftentimes, there are many…. people can confirm my words, many of those who are at the service of God in various religions In all of the religions, there are such people, they say the right things And before, they were called the scribes They know every comma, where it is placed, but they are empty Simply as if an empty bucket is sitting and mumbling something, or standing and mumbling, but there is nothing inside It seems he is saying the right things, is giving correct guidance, but he is without God, and so, everything is empty Whereas, there are also people who don’t always know everything, like those priests in religions, who just with their speech achieve great results And people get inflamed with this Love And there were also many people like that who had one parable for every occasion, but it worked Why? Because they’ve told it with an inner impulse They themselves lived by this Love, while words are merely words Words… well, what are words? Yes, we communicate, we understand; thanks to our ability to talk, we understand each other But in reality, we understand each other much better when we feel, when we listen to what is inside Even a person who doesn’t know how to do it, and who doesn’t know what it is, he still feels within himself what is happening and he can observe both the activity of his consciousness and those deepest feelings towards the other person And please note, I would like to emphasize this: active consciousness – it always manifests its opposition towards everything sacred This is really so It’s enough to remember the experience of Christ, because he was also thrown stones at and was crucified by religious people Isn’t that so? And how could one not feel Christ? This is nonsense This shows that people were religious, precisely the priests were the ones to demand his execution, but they were empty inside T: And where is love? IM: And where is love? Where is God in them? This is also sad And such guides are, unfortunately, numerous Religion differs precisely by the fact that it has rules written down, it has certain regulations written down, when and what should be said, to whom, and under what circumstances. This is good, too Let’s say, it’s better than nothing

T: Yes, it’s just that it didn’t work And it turns out that those answers to questions did not grant this inner contact, they did not let one feel the reality of God No matter how hard I tried to followall of these, say, sets of rules… IM: But many encounter this And a simple order “Drop down and give me twenty” — it doesn’t work in this particular case You may repeat a prayer thousands of times, may not use foul language and all, but you can’t get away from your own consciousness And the devil will use these same tools against you if you don’t know how to resist him As they say, “Don’t think about the bad.” Even if you don’t think about the bad, you eliminate curse words from your consciousness as well as rude words, but you won’t get away from either judging someone or from thoughts about how you yourself are so weak, and that you won’t get anywhere, and you’re fighting in vain because you don’t deserve this Isn’t that the way consciousness tells it? It is T: But inside something different is felt because when… IM: Well, I’m not saying anything, I’m talking overall, in general Why are people in the process of searching, why do they walk around in circles? What does the reason itself lie in? In consciousness In the fact that actually, they are controlled by the devil And the devil always says one and the same thing, “Show me.” But even when one shows him, he says, “I don’t believe.” Let’s recall, well, about Prophet Muhammad when he came and started telling his relatives about it, what did his brother say? T: That even if you show me a miracle, I won’t believe you IM: Any miracle, I won’t believe you Well, isn’t that so? Let us recall Jesus Christ, his stay here Miracles were taking place, so to say, because because of His presence. But did people believe Him? Some will say, “They did believe.” If they had believed, they wouldn’t have betrayed him and wouldn’t have rejected him Even His most faithful disciples Didn’t that happen? It did If people had believed, they wouldn’t have blasphemed him, wouldn’t have thrown stones at him. Isn’t that so? It is And why was that so? Because they were empty inside Consciousness was controlling them, and when consciousness controls a person, he’s empty inside And it is precisely those who have experienced contact with God, who have got filled at least a little with this… well, greatest gift that a person can experience, then it’s natural that he’s in a process of searching Of course, he will be attentive But it is exactly here that the devil intervenes as an intermediary between the person and God And this is so I mean, human consciousness There is no worse enemy on the way to God But what are people guided by? By consciousness, by experience It is impossible to live in three-dimensionality without it This is also right We won’t see each other and won’t perceive anything, everything will disappear without consciousness However, you will never come to God with its help because for consciousness, the Spiritual World is ruinous That’s why it will do everything so as not to let a person in there After all, it’s not with the mind that a person realises that God exists He perceives this spiritually, internally, at the level of, as they say, the Soul Well, not the Soul, of course, but at the level of the Personality T: Just now, you’ve said that consciousness is an intermediary between a person and God, so to speak… IM: Between a Personality and God, to be correct T: …between a Personality and God T: It turns out that a person does not even know who the devil inside him is, how he acts IM: Of course, the person doesn’t know IM: If we ask: does anyone know who the devil is? What does consciousness draw a picture of? T: Yes, I myself have encountered this… IM: Some sort of an ape-like creature with a tail and horns, which is running around and doing something IM: Well, one can look at the devil, anyone can look – in the mirror It is matter. It is material It is our thoughts All this is exactly what belongs to the devil But is it possible to see a person in the mirror? No, it’s impossible A person as a Personality – it is a spiritual component And it is not matter. Not at all After all, it’s not matter that leaves for the Kingdom of God, but it’s precisely the Spirit that gains immortality while preserving individuality T: Also, in the moments of the actual contact and being in these states of bliss and love, people who have felt these states, they understand very well that this goes far beyond the limits of the body, that this goes beyond the limits of three-dimensionality in general… IM: Of course. Anyway, this is much higher than three-dimensionality. This is T: Yes. And it turns out there is such a situation… But still,

because of the substitutions from consciousness, they are trying to, so to say, fit the body and consciousness into… IM: What we have, what we see, what we understand, is what we control. Right? Meaning, we are guided by what we have And people, out of a lack of knowledge, try to cognize God or something, let’s say, mystic and sacred, exactly with their consciousness And they try to evaluate this, and that is why in religions, many of such explanations were introduced which are literally on the borderline with children’s fairy tales Meaning, someone will be resurrected in the body and will be immortal But matter, any matter, it is finite It is impossible, because the whole universe is finite But well, one wants it this way, because our consciousness doesn’t understand it any other way But again, if we take the past, how could this be explained to a person? It was quite difficult Now we operate, yes, with the concepts of energy structures, information structures and the like People can understand at least somehow, at least something, at least there is something to compare it to But how was it before? A Spirit? Well, it was talked about. But a person didn’t understand how he would rise in the Spirit He wanted to live in the body, because he was attached to the body by consciousness Well, that’s why there were such explanations, and they still remain And so, when a person believes that for his good deeds, he will stay in paradise in the body with his consciousness, with his emotions then what kind of paradise are we talking about? T: You have just mentioned transmission of experience through feelings And, well, when people were telling about and sharing knowledge, then, first and foremost, they were sharing feelings – what they felt Actually, in the first place, they were conveying IM: Well, of course Those people who attained – they felt one thing But how can one explain to another person, say, a common layman who doesn’t know what’s it’s like to feel? Well, by some associations, by some examples After all, a person perceives himself as a body, mind, consciousness, nothing more And, maybe, somewhere there is a soul Well, isn’t that so? T: In other words, how necessary it was, after all, for those people who gave the believers answers to questions IM: …to have their own experience But this is difficult Sometime ago, yes, it really was like that When, let’s say, people lived in a different way and cared about other things Naturally, people were more spiritually free At that time, it was precisely the liberated people who came to service I mean, the liberated people were engaged in service to the Spiritual World, and they really shared their experience But they were understood more easily, because it was a different world, a different life And this was just a little while ago This was like, what, 6-7-8 thousand years ago Well, let’s just say, closer to 7 or 8 At six – quite serious changes were already started, the world was already changing 6,000 years ago T: Meaning, at this stage, the situation is such that when That the person who, one might say, should’ve shared this, say, experience, he himself is in search of this path IM: Surely T: …and he falls and he gets up, we might say, just like his laypeople – those laypeople, his congregation, who IM: Well, it’s good if he is in search, and he is striving This is a great fortune and blessing for the laypeople, because at least, their pastor himself is walking the path. Right? Somewhere T: And he’s not afraid to admit it IM: And he’s not afraid to admit it, and speaks frankly, and they are walking together Well, and he just performs the role of the one who is walking ahead, he takes on the responsibility, let’s say, for all the mistakes and shares his experience It’s wonderful, of course, if this is so But in actual fact, everything is different When consciousness commands: so, here it is written, here it is said – and that’s how we do it And he himself doesn’t know what is said and how it is written. No, he knows what is written But he doesn’t know how to explain it to a person And so, because of his despair, without knowledge of the tools, without any experience, he preaches the best he can, as he was taught, no more T: But, I suppose, every such pastor, every such imam or priest should be aware of the responsibility that which he bears for IM: Well, here is the thing. More often, pridefulness wins over responsibility And in fact, pridefulness pushes people to take on leadership And, after all, a clergyman is a leader, a leader before other people, and here consciousness, unfortunately, helps to fight for,

let’s say, leading positions within their organization T: That is, people have got confused, and these personal ambitions IM: Of course But in reality, everyone who gets on the path of service, may it be in religion, not to mention pure service to the Spiritual World Even on the path of service in religion He must understand and must realise that he assumes responsibility not only for himself, but also for those people who come to him And he even assumes responsibility for the people who are yet unborn Why? Because he is sharing his experience, he is providing guidance to those people who will have children later on, when he’ll be already gone. Well, isn’t that so? And all this will have an impact Well, and of course, one will have to bear responsibility as well T: And here, let’s say, what do priests lack? IM: They have everything Well, don’t they? Tell me, which religion doesn’t have some grains of truth? T: Every religion has these grains… IM: Surely T: The most important thing is that people in all religions feel God equally… IM: Everything depends on a person Definitely. God is One T: Of course And that feeling which people experience, which I’ve even experienced myself as I recall But you didn’t know that it was called by some word, that it was called God Namely, this was a feeling of bliss… IM: Well, we are the ones who designate names and titles And again, we designate those through consciousness for convenience of communication, in order to at least somehow explain something to each other. Right? Tatiana: Yes IM: Well, that’s why we say it this way But here, again, some community has been formed, something else, they have split off from religion, but again, the values are still the same Yes, they may have introduced some of their own understandings and ideas, that’s how they prefer to call it But this is exactly that which is sacred, that very truth they are guided by It is still God, it is still the Holy Spirit, it is still AllatRa, call it whatever you want, but anyway, it is sacred, emanating That which emanates from God – it is sacred It is sacred in every religion Why? Because it is precisely owing to this that a person attains Life, let’s say, true Life Isn’t that right? Tatiana: That’s right. How important it is, actually, to know and understand this path, how really easily, absolutely easily one can feel this… IM: Well, I wouldn’t say that this is easy either Even if a person possesses perfect tools, he still has to work After all, the spiritual path is primarily a fight, it is, first and foremost, a renunciation of service to satan This must also be understood, but this is not easy. He is devious, he is smart A person is food for him; thereforehe will not relinquish anyone T: But the way of walking this path is already different, meaning, you feel and understand… IM: It is deliberate and there is an understanding, right. T: Yes, it is deliberate And you yourself are responsible for… IM: What makes True Knowledge so valuable, for instance? That Knowledge which was brought by the Prophets, and which Jesus Christ Himself talked about, let’s say, it had been repeatedly spoken of before him too It is valuable in terms of its simplicity and feasibility of its application T: And the fact that, through seemingly simple tools, you can feel the reality of God IM: And make a choice T: Really start feeling and… IM: A person will never be able to make a choice whether to serve God or satan without knowing what it is And in order to gain at least some initial experience, to come nto contact with the Spiritual World, one definitely needs tools which help, which tell, which, let’s put it this way… At least an elementary understanding of the fact that your consciousness is not yours, that it is precisely that tool by means of which the devil holds you here, enslaves you in a literal sense of the word But this already arms people, and arms very effectively But another thing is that consciousness doesn’t agree with this It always starts reasoning in its own way, operating again with a concept of “love” or something else, only already leading astray, twisting this word T: It just becomes sort of more active when a person approaches this moment, when Knowledge comes into his life Probably, because consciousness, let’s say, also understands that as soon as a person comes into contact with the True Knowledge, as soon as exactly this, very first moment of contact through feelings occurs, as soon as he knows this feeling which… IM: Then he starts resisting the devil And then he always strives for God T: Yes, and that is why…

I remember from my own experience that exactly at this moment, just at the moment of coming into contact with the Knowledge… IM: Of the initial experience T: Of this initial experience and of gaining this perception through feelings, there was such a depth and great joy, and there were seemingly no questions at the moment of contact Finally, you just got inflamed inside And delighted by how much that was “it”, how long you had been searching for it, and there was such an enormous aspiration to live in feelings, to develop this, that sort of… And it can’t be said that this path is complicated, because that which IM: It is absolutely easy T: … is burning inside, when you feel… IM: But again, it becomes easy when a person starts to live by it, be guided by it But let’s step aside a little and look at how people live A lot of worries, problems, and all the rest Consciousness makes a mountain out of a molehill And a person is at work, he’s at home, there are daily chores, there are trivial health issues, and whatever else consciousness turns this into such a stumbling block, which is difficult to walk around and impossible to jump over. Isn’t it so? On the path It’s a different matter when a person knows that all of this is an illusion And the only thing that is true, that is eternal is God’s Love It is that which one should acquire and accumulate But this is when he knows, when he has this experience, but he still has to come to this And to come through what? Through consciousness A person cannot get around the devil on the way to God, because the devil stands in front of him, in front of the person, and here one has to work T: You know, as of today, this very need arises thanks to the fact that, let’s say,, experience of feeling the Spiritual World has occurred, an experience of being in the grace of the Holy Spirit, you understand how many people who have lived and strived just like you… IM: And they are living and striving T: …and are living, and are striving, and are searching, and asking so many questions And above all, actually, as you’ve said… IM: And the Personality of any person seeks God, even the Personality of the most ardent atheist strives for God And that’s true This is normal After all, it wants to live and it knows the truth T: This very aspiration and this movement towards fusion with the Spiritual World is embedded in us initially, by the nature and the essence of the human being And indeed, as it was once said, this path of fusion with the Spiritual World is much simpler than, one might say, living by consciousness… IM: But these are incomparable things In any case, it’s more enjoyable T: Much more enjoyable and… I will just tell you right now how it used to be I used to have so many questions and I went and talked both to laypeople and the same believers as myself, and I, first of all, turned to the words of people who should know how to come to God In my opinion, those were priests, imams. And, of course, I… Especially if I felt a person in whom this feeling of love was burning once, it can be felt very well – then at some point I was hoping that he would show me the way And what happened was that answers were given to some key questions, but due to the fact that the main thing wasn’t there, this very… IM: Tool T: Tool, yes IM: A simple, understandable, clear tool T: Yes. Meaning… IM: As they say, a map and a compass. As they say, what does a person lack? A map and a compass, right? T: And you know, at some point, I’ve simply understood that these are indeed people who are walking the path same as me, who are mistaken themselves IM: Same as you. The most ordinary and common people, just people. No more and no less The only difference is that they serve in their organization, but they are striving and taking care of other people And this is great. And the fact that they are striving to understand is great And it’s not their fault that they don’t have a tool It has simply been lost over the years Whatever we take, it is all altered by people. Why? Because consciousness stands in the way And in a hierarchy, consciousness always strives to be at the top, since it is the one fighting for positions and everything else, right? I mean, let’s take any religion – it is, first and foremost, an organisation And it is extremely difficult for a spiritual person to reach some high position there

Why? Because, well, as in any organization, people stop at nothing, people… But this is true. This is… Many will agree with this It’s extremely difficult Because there they don’t choose according to spirituality, but choose, once again, according to the mind to the usefulness he brings to the organization How loyal and devoted he is to the organization itself That’s the way people grow But the grow to the point that they already have an opportunity to change placement of commas in texts, and by changing commas they change the meaning But that’s how it used to be… And unfortunately, the reality of today is that those simple tools, the simple and easy ones, by which elders lived in the old times, are lost That’s okay, after all, the grains still remain. And the Truth still remains People still perceive, and thanks to that, they come into contact It’s a different matter that, let’s say, small changes occur, and people rely more on what’s customary in their organisation Someone relies on communion, he is guided by this as something holy When a person starts facing challenges, and consciousness wins, he feels that he’s losing the last of his light, then he performs a communion and gets some inspiration While someone else shows himself in some virtue Everyone saves themselves in different ways But again, this is because they don’t have simple tools, and there’s no understanding, no knowledge of who satan is in actual fact He is, let’s put it this way, clever and cunning And he has left a memory of himself because it’s impossible to get rid of him, he’s just hidden himself well Igor Mikhailovich, just now you’ve spoken about the tools, thanks to which, let’s say, this very dialogue with God gets restored IM: Well, certainly Tools are very important Here, I’ll give a simple example Take a mason A mason uses a trowel, he has mortar, he has stone, and he has a trowel How much stone can a good mason lay in one day while building a house? Well, it’s different for everyone, but quite a lot. Right? And now, let’s imagine that we will tie a 32-kilo kettlebell to this trowel, how much stone will this mason lay? And this is just one comma in a text, but it’s already a kettlebell T: Meaning, it’s truly important to understand to what extent… IM: The tool is still there IM: But it’s heavy It’s impossible to lift And hardly all people will be able to work with it. We can experiment on you So, how many stones would you lay with such a trowel with a 32-kilogram kettlebell tied to it, and how well would you do it? A simple question. Right? T: A great parallel precisely with tools IM: But these are precisely the tools T: Right now, at this particular time… IM: In our world, holiness is exalted without knowing and understanding what it is Prayer, meditation, and other spiritual practices — these are just tools Let’s just try to understand, what does a prayer do? T: Well, that depends on what kind of a prayer… IM: Any prayer, the true one. I’m not speaking of those prayers when people come to church and say, “Lord, I need to increase my housing space” or “The rubber on my car’s tires is bad already, help me to earn money or better yet, make it so that new protectors would grow on my tires.” Right? T: Let’s say, a tool thanks to which it’s possible to tune in to this frequency of Love IM: Precisely thanks to which people get experience of contact And we have no more than one or two of such tools One of the most effective ones, if we take, for instance, Christianity, is the Jesus Prayer Well, isn’t it so? T: Unceasing praying Here also… IM: Certainly And what does it do? Just to simply understand, what is the purpose of this prayer? Tatiana: Constant attention and addressing the Spiritual World IM: Some call this a dialogue with God Dialogue implies a conversation We are now having a dialogue But if I’m going to keep silent, you will conduct a monologue And this prayer — it is precisely a tool, a monologue But thanks to which, a person moves up to a different level, to perception through feelings, not by means of consciousness, ears, and his tongue After all, he is not saying it out loud on every corner Although there were those who were repeating this prayer out loud, were walking around and expecting the same response

There were those who did get an answer loud in their head But those were devil’s tools used against them Whereas here we are talking about those who performed this prayer correctly, who constantly repeated it inside themselves Regardless of whether he was talking with someone or doing something else, this became kind of his natural need And the person directed all his attention to the utmost precisely into performance of this Jesus Prayer, into love for Jesus Isn’t that so? Inside himself, towards his Soul And people achieved such a state that they began to feel And so, they received this answer, and a dialogue began But when did it begin? One must get through some difficulties, get through everything so that both while in sleep and, let’s say, while awake, this prayer would go on constantly But this is mere verbiage Truly, this is commonplace verbiage If we speak the same language, the other person doesn’t know this language, he won’t understand what we’re saying But when a person is filled with the Holy Spirit or, as we say, with AllatRa, yes, when he is full of this power of God’s Love, then regardless of whether a person knows your language or not, he feels this This is visible, this is felt. The only one who doesn’t feel is the one whom the devil controls And here one must also think about this I gave an example of precisely Jesus Christ, that stones were thrown at him, people crucified him, those who called themselves and considered themselves to be faithful If people don’t feel the Holy One, and if their consciousness is indignant at that very Holy One, and it has to revolt — this is the defense of consciousness itself, this is, well, let’s say, a self-preservation instinct for that very consciousness Then a person, knowing this, understanding that consciousness is outraged, listens to it and goes away, or takes a stone and throws it, that means he is a slave of the system Whereas, when listening, he’s rejoicing at meeting something holy, for his consciousness got outraged, his demons went mad, that means he encountered something holy, he came into contact with the Truth And then, the person rejoices about it It means he is already very close to it But isn’t that what the holy elders were talking about, the ones who used the Jesus Prayer as a tool? T: You know, you just said such a key point about the fact that also, that inner prayer — it is a dialogue with God That means that God is always talking with a person? IM: He is talking with a person But he doesn’t talk with satan And this should be known And the difference here, guys, is huge When you voice your desires from consciousness with grievances towards God, He doesn’t hear you When you are in sadness, in grief about a loss or something else, He doesn’t hear you Because all this is satan’s tricks God is joy. God is Love There can be no sadness in the Spiritual World, it just doesn’t exist And this is the truth This is always joy inside, and no matter where a person is, and what is happening to him So, again, I’ll go back to the elders, what did they speak about once they cognized the Truth? T: About AllatRa IM: About AllatRa They spoke of joy, of filling up, of that happiness that overflowed them even when on deathbed. Isn’t it so? While suffering of bodily illnesses, they spoke of joy, they spoke of God, and they rejoiced in the fact that their body was pushing them out T: This is a wonderful experience. And you know, now you already understand that this prayerful state, this, one might say, inner prayer that the elders were performing and, well, let’s say, Hesychastic practices, this is what’s conceivable and possible… IM: This is a tool. Certainly T: …to achieve for every person, T: that this is not the lot for some chosen people, that holiness — it is… IM: I will put it simpler: in this world, all people are chosen People don’t come to this world by their choice, but this is a gift This is a great gift for everybody, that they are here For they have the opportunity to gain Life Eternal And to waste this gift — that’s foolish

That’s the same as Well, I will give a simple example You are walking across a desert, it is boundless, it’s hot, you have no water, you are taking your last conscious steps And here, somebody comes and gives you water, but you refuse to take it Well, isn’t that so? T: Foolishness IM: It is simply foolishness, you can’t say otherwise And why do you refuse? The jug is not the right kind Its shape or colour are wrong Well, isn’t that so? And what do we see happening? This is exactly what happens The wrong tool, don’t use it Here, drop down and give me twenty – this is blessed, while anything else is unacceptable And the fact that you are dying of thirst, and you are being handed a jug with pure water, but the shape is not right T: But I can say that those people who feel the world of God, T: who hear these very tools, then… IM: Those who feel, those are unified T: Nothing will perturb them I: Nothing T: Not the form in which this knowledge is being conveyed, because they grasp, well, this very essence IM: The essence T: That most important thing which… IM: Those people who feel God, they know that God is one, and they know that nothing divides us Isn’t this what Jesus was talking about? Isn’t this what Muhammad was talking about? Precisely about this All people are one Isn’t this so? It is It’s people who divide T: Here, you know, owing to the tools – to that pure Knowledge, which has come, let’s say, into my life, meaning, everything has changed Understanding of my religion has changed in general, what various rituals mean, what is, well, in particular, what the liturgy is – that it is indeed giving thanks, expression of gratitude towards God by this one heart, by one church IM: Jointly T: Jointly, yes. IM: Correct T: That this is not some place, so to say, that this is that unity of people at the level of feelings, T: and which way to express it IM: Should be T: Yes. And what this thanksgiving to God is IM: I will add: should be this way IM: Right? T: I’d like that very much IM: And this is the purpose of that very liturgy Exactly through feelings, it is exactly sincere, exactly true And it is in joy, and in love, but not in sorrow and not in moaning Isn’t this so? At times, people come like a poor relative to a rich one and act sad, and complain about their life, appeal to conscience, don’t they? They do the same in front of God People come and complain to Him To whom? And they hope that He will hear them, but they all sincerely believe, consciousness convinces them that God hears, He knows everything, and He knows every word He knows everything Of course, He knows Main things and what He needs to know But they say God sees every person He doesn’t see And this is true As long as a person is under the devil’s power, he belongs to the devil This is his domain And when a person becomes Alive, when he gains Life, he belongs to the Spiritual World, and the devil is powerless There is either black or white There is no grey T: Igor Mikhailovich, and in which cases does God hear a person’s prayer? IM: God does not hear a person’s prayer God hears a person when the person reaches the Spiritual World inside himself through his Soul. Isn’t this so? Only this way When a person as a Personality, precisely at the level of feelings, he aspires, puts his entire attention not into the whisper of demons in his head, but into Love inside him And one fine day, all people who indeed sincerely generate even a simple inner message… We have removed the words, but left the essence of this prayer Precisely sincere Love directed towards one’s Soul, into oneself, towards God After all, there is no God outside God is only inside a human being And everyone has their own path. Why? Because every Personality has a Soul as a part of the Spiritual World Are they connected with each other? They are connected

by that which is called the silver thread, and this has always been told about This is that very intimate connection If there were no connection, the Personality wouldn’t exist, right? Right And those powers, which are the spiritual powers, are transmitted from the Soul to the Personality, they must be returned again to that same place, to that very Soul, to the Spiritual World And here, if a person does this correctly, honestly, sincerely, feels that this is needed, and he is guided by this very feeling, I’m saying once again, and not by the whisper of demons in his head, then he starts feeling a response And the response lies in intensification of this Love, in understanding of simple things, and complex things become simpler, and this is how the dialogue begins And exactly here God already starts hearing the person Only when he deserves it Well, pardon me, when a person is subordinated to and controlled by satan and comes to God with indignation and with demands, with whole lists about health, about pridefulness, about money, well, about what else, well, about everything, about anything possible that’s material, except God’s Love Well, at the end, well, and save my soul too is written in small script at the bottom of a long list Who will hear him in fact, except satan? And satan is not interested either, because he’s exactly the one who dictates all this to him This is also true. At that, people don’t even think about how their consciousness operates, how thoughts emerge, why they hear Yes, we do understand at the level of neurophysiology how we hear, don’t we? Molecular vibrations, through the eardrum, well, and then through the malleus and the anvil, are being converted into an electric impulse that comes to certain neutrons of the brain, and then what? And exactly here science stops Isn’t this so? But once a breakdown in this sequence occurs, and we don’t hear That’s right, because with what, coarse matter, subtle matter, at the level of information After all, our thoughts and our consciousness – this is an informational structure, not more It’s impossible to catch a human thought It’s possible to catch its manifestation when it is unfolded at the level of the brain, meaning, there is excitation of one or another group of neurons It is possible to achieve and to see pictures that are being manifested, unfolded After all, our brain – it is like… well, like a monitor, let’s say so A monitor – it is again, where information comes, and certain pixels merely get activated But we observe a picture In the same way, our brain, it only generates pictures, not more But Personality perceives these pictures At that, who creates, imposes these pictures? Consciousness Right? Yet, from where do they come to consciousness? And here, neurophysiology ends Psychology begins a little bit, yes, our habits, our images, and the like Naturally, the more we develop our especially secondary consciousness, the more intellectual people become, and their knowledge of this world expands This is natural, this is normal, this is experience, and everything else But why does primary consciousness, why does it reach a level up to the primary surge, as we say, up to 5 to 6 years old, and that’s all, and it doesn’t evolve any further? And, no matter how hard you try, it still remains a child And, actually, this is no secret either for psychiatrists or for psychologists, for anybody And everyone knows this, that a child lives even in an old man And a human, he is a somewhat strangely arranged being On the one hand, he is clever, on the other hand, he’s a child And if we put together this child and this clever one and move them aside, then it turns out he is also a little spiritual Here, it is precisely the spiritual part which must prevail over both the child and the academician, let’s say, in a person’s head Isn’t this so? Just not in the head, in the head there is only a screen The head is merely a screen, it’s a monitor Everything else is at the other level T: How important it is to choose that Life which is burning inside, instead of these dry programs of the system, by which… IM: Well, it’s important… This is wonderful People are here precisely for this reason So, many people wonder: what am I here for? Here’s the answer. Who? Consciousness says, “Well, since you are here, this means you are the cleverest You should reap everything out of life.”

And this, generally speaking, is the secret of alcoholism and drug addiction… Why do people become alcoholics, and why do they become drug addicts? Because in this very state, in the altered state of consciousness, as a result of intoxication, a person starts feeling himself as the one who he, in actual fact, is not Well, it is easier for consciousness to control him this way Well, and it begins to show him that he’s a superhero, that he is cleverer than the cleverest, and the like That is, pridefulness is being satisfied Whereas, having sobered up, he understands his own worthlessness and reaches for the glass again And that’s the entire chemistry T: Igor Mikhailovich, I would like to go back to how a person can feel Life inside himself Because, undoubtedly, you’ve just spoken about those things which are, let’s say, hellish conditions here, on Earth This is when the system leads a person astray into some altered states of consciousness just in order to relieve this very loss, let’s say, of the dialogue with God, of the expression of one’s love exactly for God Because, indeed, God always communicates with a human being, and His Love is boundless And that joy, that Love which He grants… IM: Let’s put it simpler, the door to the Spiritual World is always open This is true People close this door in front of themselves by their choice of whom they serve T: That is, simply by trusting consciousness, it may be said, they stand… IM: People are mistaken T: They stand in front of some illusory door… IM: This is precisely the paradox. Of course IM: When a person relies on his consciousness in spiritual matters, he seeks material things, meaning, he seeks the inevitably dead Whereas, pardon me, the Spiritual World cannot be dead by definition, it is eternal T: I am very touched by what has just been voiced, that a person sees exactly the internal component, exactly this sincere appeal to God with the entire openness, with the entire purity, with the entire self-sacrifice IM: But not through consciousness T: But not through consciousness IM: And this is precisely the paradox And for many people, a question immediately comes up: but if not through consciousness, then how? T: Exactly IM: And here it begins. Well, with consciousness – I do understand I’ve come to a temple, as Christian, I’ve come to a church, lit a candle, stood in front of an icon What’s next? I am saying a prayer, I’m not arguing with anyone What’s next? Am I already a saint, or not yet? T: You don’t humble yourself enough, you repent too little IM: Why? I do repent, I do humble myself I don’t do anything extra IM: What’s next? T: Nothing, a deadlock IM: And why? T: A deadlock, because all these are actions in the external IM: Absolutely right T: In other words, there is a certain code of some moral and ethical norms which should exist in society… IM: Absolutely right. It is surely needed And here we should give credit to the churches, and we should give credit to all religions that they provide, even for consciousness, these restrictive limits, and people remain human at least a little bit T: This unbelievable grief because what you do, sort of these… You fulfil this code of, so to say, rules T: You expect the descent of grace Yes, meaning, a person… IM: Grief is engendered by consciousness, IM: and this is the first obstacle Many people also teach that you should cry for God, should show how you repent, how you pray for forgiveness of sins in suffering Well, pardon me, well, in suffering… I will tell you simpler, are you interested in keeping a cry-baby beside you? T: I want to run away IM: At least for one year? T: I want to run away, of course IM: At least for one day? IM: To sit with a cry-baby for ten minutes, is it pleasant? There’s the answer for you So, if you don’t want to sit with a cry-baby here, well, imagine how it is there If only whiners get together? It’s sad T: That is, first and foremost, well, it would be great if… IM: First and foremost, one should learn to love IM: Love is the only way There are lots of paths to God, but the way is one – only through love There’s nothing else. But the trouble is that people don’t know what love is This is indeed the trouble Everything that they call love – it is all distorted, it is all three-dimensional, it is all material, and everything comes to a wrong end T: Here is another key substitution – it is expectation of the descent of this very grace IM: A freebie T: Yes, instead of… IM: God is merciful, and He will forgive me IM: I’m saying once again, here,

you as a person who, well, let’s say so, were born in churches, right? Well, I mean as a liberated, spiritual person I perform everything that they tell me, I go to church, everything is as it should be What’s next? T: You know, say, according to feelings, as I recall, this edge is so great, at some moments it seems to me that you become estranged from God Meaning, when you give yourself up to these external rituals without an inner understanding of what is embedded there, T: then, moving away from this internal, the distance… IM: And here you have noted correctly: an inner understanding IM: of what the liturgy is, and why it is taking place, and the like Well, and here again, a clergyman is telling you that it is joy, that the liturgy is service, that the liturgy is this, and liturgy is that But if a person doesn’t know how to love? He doesn’t know this grace in actual fact What will he do? He will sit and wait. An Awaiter Well, isn’t that so? He will be a spiritual Awaiter He will just sit or stand, do everything that they tell him, and wait until it’s handed to him on a silver platter. Isn’t that so? T: Or he stays near those who feel a state of grace, but doesn’t produce… IM: Because it is pleasant. But in actual fact, it is pleasant for people if they can pacify and reign in their consciousness Because, as a rule, consciousness reacts not very nicely Yet, not in everyone, of course, but, let’s say, in absolute slaves, in those it’s met with hostility Whereas, people who are more or less, let’s say, calm, it is certainly blissful for those to be near a person who is filled with the Holy Spirit. Well, this is… T: The most important thing takes place IM: It is like being near a warm stove in the cold of winter, right? T: Yes, and the most important thing takes place at this moment, and this very feeling is flaring up in you… IM: Surely, but not for long T: The same feeling awakens in you IM: It awakens T: You start having faith that you do know what the Spiritual World is IM: A feeling emerges IM: There emerges a feeling of understanding of something greater But suffice it for you to move away, and you have immediately lost all this And the most interesting thing is that a person doesn’t understand how he loses it Isn’t that so? Until he has driven himself into anguish again, and he recalls how warm and joyful it was near that person, and he rushes to him again T: That is to say, right now, there comes an understanding of how important it really is not to just abide in this state, not to just keep this state, but how important it is, we may say, to multiply this very love for God IM: And it must be endlessly multiplied while a person is here, and how can it be otherwise? And Life – that is Love If a person doesn’t generate love, he will not receive it Isn’t that right? T: Meaning, to never stop expressing one’s gratitude and love for God IM: Love and gratitude – this is everything that a person can give to God This is all that he can offer And it is the only thing that… That he can in fact not ask for, let’s put it so, but rather what he can give to the Spiritual World and receive And what can be greater? What is more important than Life? T: Everything is perishable IM: Everything is perishable… T: Indeed, everything is somehow ridiculous when… IM: There is such an ancient expression: “All-conquering Love”, it refers precisely to the true love Precisely to that love which is victorious over everything Yet, what has consciousness done? It has converted all this And love of a woman for a man and of a man for a woman began And subsequently consciousness has turned all this around, and love of a man for a man has begun You see how we are going down the steps Well, isn’t that right? Meaning, it is a natural process, devolution T: Nevertheless, let’s say, a question arises, but how… How to express this love when you feel, when inside of you, not even in the body, but inside there lights up… IM: But actually, it is not in the body And what is the first mistake people make? IM: They are expecting some effects… T: A search for bodily sensations IM: That is right, a search for bodily sensations They are waiting for effects which will happen to their bodies, inside the bodies If love should flare up, heat should flare up inside, then what are they waiting for? For bodily manifestations From whom are they expecting this? From mind Who is suggesting this to them? A demon Isn’t that right? And in such a manner they can only do harm to themselves due to concentrating on any part of the body,

and as a rule, people are concentrating on the area of solar plexus or on the heart as it was said before But a heart is a metaphor. All this was actually getting deeper into the soul area People subconsciously know and feel where it is Well, let’s say, in the abdomen area, yes? Although, a little to the right But what’s the difference? You know, we have been talking about it just now, and I have recalled such a point, that it is precisely that inner feeling, that inner state that has to be developed There is a substitution in religions that precisely this spiritual feeling, it… IM:It is not a substitution, no I don’t agree with you that it’s a substitution Those are merely associations, some attempts to explain what it is, which were recorded in ancient times and not understood by people Is it a substitution? It is just a lack of understanding T: It is just that there are no keys IM: Quite right T: It is a misunderstanding of what was put in their consciousness IM: In actual fact, there are a lot of coffers with invaluable knowledge locked in any religion This is not secret knowledge, it is simple and true And there is a lot of it Well, here is a simple example If we, let’s say, look at any religion through the prism of the AllatRa book, well, how much is revealed? T: You know, that wonderful feeling when you understand other religions, when you not only… IM: When you understand all religions T: All religions IM: And when they become revealed T: And when everything is one whole in them When you understand that every person in different religion… IM: When you understand that it is the same dish which is shared among the whole family It is wonderful, of course, when you understand But it would be even more amazing for everyone to understand it T: There is a need to share it, because it is very much felt when others join in… IM: And why does such need arise? T: We can say that it is very much felt when every Soul, it might be said, every Personality, in expressing its Love, is joining the Spiritual World And we can say that the feeling which you are experiencing in those moments, it intensifies amazingly And it, of course, intensifies repeatedly, because it is felt that there is joining of not one person, but it is, I don’t know… It is some sort of rejoicing, thrill of the Spiritual World Just a kind of Celebration and triumph in Love, and there is such a joyful response… IM: A good similar description was given, well, a long time ago by one Zoroastrian fellow When he was asked a similar question, he said, “Just imagine that all of us abide, ”he said,“ in love and gratitude And someone else who abides in love enters Do we feel better? Yes, we do And when another one enters, do we feel better? Well, of course, after all, love is multiplying, there are more and more of us, brothers and sisters, the family is growing And it gets more and more joyful,” he said, “that’s how it is in the Spiritual World as well.” T: It is a great joy when a person really comes into contact IM: It is indeed so T: And it is always a great happiness precisely to feel how strongly… IM: Because there is no difference Because when you feel another person, you understand that all this is one T: That perception through feelings… IM: That all of us are relatives regardless of who we are, right? And where we live And it is interesting that it is felt no matter where people are It is just felt because it exists And since it exists, it means that it emerges Even when it emerges, it is felt But it is sad when it is lost After all, there are many cases like this, too When a person gets inflamed, but consciousness wins He gets distracted Of course, this is sad T: It is simply wonderful when there are a lot of people who have joined this God’s Love and how much of this Love is manifested in this world. Because, we may say, that the conductors of this Love into this world are exactly… IM: People T: People themselves, who by their choice… IM: Only this way And how can it be otherwise? This is precisely the world which is given to people, and people are creating it And it is really so Isn’t that what is written in the Bible? T: That is to say, it is a big, you know, like… IM: This entire world is given to people And people are here by their choice I am emphasizing once again: they are creating this world – the world of Love or the world of suffering – precisely according to their choice And what we see is all a result of human efforts, a result of human choice Tatiana: That is an important realisation that God’s Love – it is manifested in this world due to

the human choice in every moment of “here and now” to manifest… Igor Mikhailovich: If only in every… But what is happening, in actual fact, if we face the truth? Thank God and thanks to religions that such people appear and have appeared Before, there were more of them, now there are less And we are observing the process T: It is simply, you know, there is also such a feeling of deep gratitude inside, because, after all, some time ago you (I mean myself) were also searching, and you felt the presence of God in your life IM:You understood that He exists T:Yes, but you didn’t know that it was, let’s say, an achievement of those who once have chosen for themselves this very path – to conduct Love in this world And it is just a great gratitude that owing to this choice, one might say, in your moments also, in some key points of your life journey, the grace of God was manifested and was intensified, and it was easy to make the right step It was easy to make a step to God, a step towards God IM: Well… easy, not easy. But the fact itself that there was such a possibility to make this step – that is already good T: And there is just this understanding inside that when there are more of all of us together – of those who really love God and conduct, one might say, multiply God’s Love, when there are more of us in this world, then how much more help it will be for those who really strive for God, who really who really feel this need to return to Him Because the system indeed, let’s face it, it is strong in the modern world, it is IM: As never before Now is the culmination T:Meaning, that it has never been as strong as now? IM: It was. Once Tatiana: It ended with… IM: Well, it ended, well, let’s say, with a spiritual reign of a thousand years It was the time when satan, like a homeless dog, fed at the dump with human scum There were still those who tried to serve him Well, this is how the world is arranged But mainly, it was different. And afterwards, he went hungry for thousands of years But now he is feasting, now he needs nothing T: Well, I would say that this information that you have talked about just now, it is more inspiring Because we would very much like that this event would happen at such, one might say, a peak of what so far, perhaps, has been satan’s feast… IM: To spoil his dinner, right? T: Yes IM: What a human meanness T: Well, let’s say, we are deeply gratified with the examples… IM:But it is he who has taught this T: We are very pleased that there are examples in history when people, even, one might say, at such moments, the peak moments of the system’s concentration, the system’s activation, by choosing for themselves a path of service… IM: The point is that life, it exists and existed ages ago Let’s say, our Universe, it originated 14 billion plus a few years ago Well, and accordingly, the system itself is also around the same age Whereas, life appeared later, but it has also existed for far more than one billion years, I mean the life in this Universe But it is neither the first nor the last Universe, and it is not alone within the boundless space That is why experience is huge But the choice is always up to those who are not just spiritualized, but who are soul-filled The one who is soul-filled has an opportunity to Live forever Those who are spiritualized – they just live Whereas a human being, unlike all other living creatures, is soul-filled Since he is soul-filled, then, it means, what does he have? The right of choice Just look how fair everything is If you want, serve satan, and you as a Personality will cease to exist Well, you will be in slavery, if you are lucky, for a couple hundred years, if you are not lucky – for a couple thousand years Hell, after all, is also not eternal, it is temporary Tatiana: And this is, you know, wonderful news that there is precisely a moment of your responsibility, that… IM: And how can it be otherwise? T: You know, the hardest part is to assign responsibility to someone else, to some imams or some clergymen IM: They are just people T: But when you yourself take on your spiritual… IM: But how is it possible to assign responsibility to someone else in spiritual matters? You can study, but to shift the responsibility for yourself, for your spiritual development onto someone else – this is not realistic It will not work out The spiritual path – it is a path that a person overcomes himself

And only having reached this God’s light, that’s when he merges with others, then he feels This is what you have talked about, that, yes, it is joyful when there are many, and the like But one still has to reach this And between this and now there stands none other than satan No matter how we call him, but it is a stumbling block, it is a considerable obstacle – that is our consciousness, nothing more And almost all heroes lose in the fight against it And do you know why they lose? Tatiana: Why? IM: Because it’s impossible to win It’s unrealistic to defeat consciousness, unrealistic to defeat satan One can simply walk away But to walk away… T: Do you know to what extent… IM: But how would one not want to win? Because it is precisely he who controls. One only needs to… T: But now, it is just a unique and blessed time when tools exist on how to do this On how and where to leave for IM: Well, now… These tools existed a thousand years ago as well, and… T: It is just that time when they are, one might say, introduced in their purity The first step, this one, probably, it starts from the point when you, really, in all honesty… IM:The first step, do you know what it begins with? The first step begins when a person, inside himself, to his own consciousness, when it suggests to pick up a stone and throw it, but the person says “No” That’s where it begins With unclenching one’s fist When the stone falls under one’s feet That’s where, in actual fact, the first step begins The stone, in this case, I would understand this as “I don’t care”, cessation of hatred and cessation of indifference After all, at times, indifference is even worse than hatred Hatred is the opposite side… But here it is easy for a person also to feel what is behind it Behind this fear, behind this hatred After all, hatred is a derivative of fear which lives in a person But when there is indifference, and a person doesn’t care, he is so self-centered that it seems to him that he is the only one who exists, while the world doesn’t exist Well, this is a more severe form In this case, it is more difficult for such people to leave when… religion or something else, they don’t care But when a person is even a devotee of some religion, and he believes fanatically in his religion only, or he fanatically hates all religion, it’s easier for them, these people Because here satan has increased pressure He has increased pressure because their Personality is more free, and it has a much higher chance to break free of his shackles, that’s why he applies such force so as to hold the person chained You know, like a horse chomping at the bit, that is striving for freedom while being held back Well, a lot of strength is needed But when a person is indifferent, this is much worse, this speaks of the Personality’s weakness in the spiritual aspect This speaks of the fact that the child as a Personality hasn’t developed since birth There were few spiritual examples, he has degraded, he is indifferent Well, here, this is already more serious trouble than hatred or fear T: This is such a situation that these people, so to say, in whom consciousness dominates now, and in whom the system’s positions are strong, meaning, the one who now denies the Truth all the time, actually has, so to say, great potential IM: A potential of cognition T: …and a capability of cognition of this Truth IM: Certainly T: Just to accept this Truth, in the first place, and to feel it IM: To accept it. The first thing a person has to accept is the fact that he is a human To become aware of his spiritual and material natures To understand that he has two arteries Both God and devil, they are much closer than these arteries for him When a person understands this, it’s already easier Then, it’s enough to understand that a person doesn’t control his consciousness, but rather consciousness controls a person This already unties one’s hands and gives one an opportunity to learn how the system works Because, not having learned it, it’s impossible to win When one wants to yell at, or rant, or quarrel with a close loved one for no reason… Well, who hasn’t experienced this? Here, if we take an ordinary family Why are there quarrels and brawls? Because of pridefulness and confrontation When a person understands and grasps that any matter strives to dominate over other matter Always, in any form: hidden, subtle, crude, but always

That’s how matter is arranged That’s why in the family everyone always fights for leadership But understanding this, you already take a giant step, because you can make a choice and unclench your fist, dropping the stone at the right moment. This is a step already Isn’t that right? Tatiana: This is great, because at those moments of confrontation, it’s very easy for a Personality to understand that at this time the system is acting But there are other moments as well There are other examples of a family when people who have felt the Spiritual World are in a state of caring so that in the other person also… So that the other person would be in this state IM: Yes, but again, how can he be in this state… T: Well, not to strengthen the system’s positions, so to speak IM: Simpler put… You are right But what is done for this in the first place? This doesn’t mean that if you, say, have come to some religion, have cognized this, it has opened up to you, and you come and start to terrorize, to set up such, well, say, different everyday religious manipulations But this will also be an attempt to dominate. Right? And what’s the point? Now, why do spiritually liberated people have families that are freer, calmer? Because there is an understanding. Right? That, well, in the other person… The person doesn’t want to develop spiritually — this is his right, it’s his choice After all, in actual fact, no one has the right to force anyone This is so You like serving satan — serve him But on the other hand, when in the other person, in your, say, family, hatred flares up, you understand that this is not the person, but this is exactly the work of consciousness This is just some program has entered, the person has accepted it, well, he’ll get over it, he’ll calm down Because he himself is good Isn’t that right? T: Just this good, on the one hand, intention to help But how can one person help another? IM: By not interfering with his choice That’s sacred T: By abiding in Love IM: By being the one who Loves T: Because at times, really no words, one might say… IM: No words will replace sincere Love T: I also wanted to share, so to say, my story I am from a Christian family myself But there are both Catholics and Orthodox in the family But I was christened in Orthodoxy And basically, in the family, there were never any questions or these divisions, who is in which denomination But of course, when there was this first search for God, when in my childhood I just attended different churches and in the same way entered both the Catholic church and the Orthodox church, from the adults’ perspective it felt a little bit like I was doing something wrong Meaning, they somehow looked at me askew, knowing that I am Orthodox, then why the child was running both here and there But inside, there was this sincere inner impulse to understand, what am I really feeling? In that how to find and return to that state of bliss that I felt before? And this feeling was always in the forefront, meaning, this question of returning into the state of feelings, it engendered this search The search, to look everywhere, at that in various sources: in sacred writings, and to search for precisely those who really felt the same thing that I felt It’s so interesting that on this path I came across people who spoke about what was felt, spoke of joy, spoke of Love But there wasn’t… IM: Yet, everyone talks T: But the key was that you didn’t always feel Love in them Meaning, there was such a moment of a lack of responsibility IM: But here, you know, I… I will interrupt a little I was always surprised, how can people be in churches and at the same time treat it as a job? But this is really… But if a person comes to service in religion… I understand that many come as if to work, we have already talked about it, this is already simply a means of survival Or, more often, of course, pridefulness pushes people to bless someone, to have someone listen to him or something else Well, it’s like they come for some kind of illusion of power By this, I mean precisely those who simply go as if to work But still, the majority go out of faith, by an inner call, they are prompted into it But I’m surprised, why do people, while being in a church,

they don’t absorb and don’t develop spiritually themselves? This is a paradox And so I would compare this, like, say, to a person who is dying of starvation, walking around gardens full of various fruits, but he is lazy, he is too lazy to stoop down to pick up the fruits, he is too lazy to stretch out his hand to pick them, and at the same time he is dying of starvation After all, they have plenty of example before their eyes of both other clergymen and those very parishioners After all, not everyone comes empty, many people do feel And how is it possible not to feel a person who is filled with the Holy Spirit? Well, how? This is the same as with a hungry man, his sense of smell gets more sensitive, right? He feels food like a wild animal, a mile away Whereas, here it turns out that people are so closed off by their consciousness from faith that they become… I can’t even find such a word, how foolish they are This is what amazes me Unfortunately, this does exist T: You know, I wanted to acquaint you with a person who… I am from Belarus myself And in Belarus, there is St. Elisabeth Convent, and there is a person who has basically played a very significant role in this Christian life of mine, because… IM: Archpriest Andrei? Tatiana: Yes, Archpriest Andrei Lemeshonok IM: An interesting person and… T: So, I can say that… IM: He’s been knocking for a long time But I have a different question, why doesn’t he enter? T: Maybe, due to lack of knowledge? Of how to make this step through the open door IM: Fear… Fear to part with his consciousness Fear which… Well, consciousness gets in the way, I can’t say it otherwise After all, he does feel, he is not empty, he did have an experience, he did light up with this Light, and he is striving for this Light, and he wants this But at the same time, I can’t say that he really has such pridefulness, no There’s just fear, some… Well, many people, unfortunately, experience this when they stand at the threshold, knock, while the door is open They just lack one step They just lack a single step Although as a person, he’s unique No wonder that he has, let’s say, inspired you. One can feel him, he… T: And indeed, well, like… IM: He often brings joy Tatiana: Yes IM: Well, and he gets sad at times, that’s true T: But what causes joy is that there’s this honesty and openness, not only, maybe, with himself, but also with all believers Meaning, the person… we talked about it, raised this subject once in the programme “Consciousness and Personality”… IM: He is not always sincere, there is play Tatiana: This is also felt a great deal, when the person is indeed honest with himself, and when he… IM: Well, there was a friend of mine Why was? Still is, thank God, but he is not here anymore Antony But I met him, and Andrei resembles exactly Antony to me That one also abided in such a Spirit, had an experience… At that, he had an experience when he was young And throughout his life, he was in search of this experience And it’s interesting that when I got acquainted with him, he was of rather old age, already quite grown-up, let’s say, but in his heart, he always remained young When he acquired this experience in his young years, and so he lived by these very moments all the time, he was aspiring I asked him a simple question, I said, “But why don’t you take the step?” A simple question Literally three or four days passed No, exactly three days passed after I had asked him the question, then he came. On that day, he didn’t answer me at all, there was such a sensation as if he got disconnected, he withdrew into himself to such an extent, started pondering And then he came and said, “And you know, you are right,” and I said, “About what?” Well, I had work, a lot of people, I had other things on my mind,

well, I had just asked, after all, it’s his problem, he’s the one to bear it He said, “And you are right,” I said, “About what?” “I really,” he said, “cannot take the step.” I said, “Well, why? This is so simple.” He said, “It is simple when you know in which direction you should step.” Here, there’s just elementary lack of knowledge Why? Because, relying even on the canons, and relying on everything, there’s no map, and the compass is broken There is always a problem with the last step Consciousness is the mediator, that’s exactly the trouble It’s impossible to perceive with it And consciousness always puts its two cents in T: How many such people are there who are knocking on the door which doesn’t exist? IM: There are many, very many And I’ll put it this way: there are many such people among believers of all religions, and there are many such people among clergymen Yet, on the other hand, this is joyful, for they do feel, they do knock Yes, they lack knowledge how to take this step, yes, consciousness interferes, but still, they aspire, and this already gladdens Not every time do they yield to temptations of consciousness, in many cases they overcome it Well, after all, they are humans, and a human has the right to stumble The main thing for them is to make it in time This is what’s important Otherwise it’s a pity When it’s same as… You are longing to see a relative whom you haven’t seen in a long time, you are making plans, you arrive, and he has left It’s really a pity T: How important it is for this meeting to take place. IM: In time. T: In time IM: Absolutely right Tatiana: It is such a great help to many people when you are able to give them a hint how they can meet IM: For this, one must take this step oneself T:And you know, in this man, there is indeed a sincere aspiration to help people somehow He talks to people, to his flock, as an equal, meaning, he isn’t afraid to admit that he also falls and makes mistakes, that he is also following the spiritual path… IM: He is rather famous, I must say, and many people listen to him, and he inspires many, this is already good Even if he just inspires them to search, if he just keeps them from foolishness, this is already wonderful Well, of course, I would like him to take this step, too He will be able to help many, very many people then Well, that’s his choice T: It turns out that there is such a situation that the person who sincerely aspires to help other people needs this help himself Because, well, let’s say, who can help him take this very step, so that he and people who follow him, really those thousands of people, would get closer to God? IM: Well, nobody except himself At that, everyone perceives the spiritual path oneself And how otherwise? After all, nobody will walk this path for him Tatiana: How important it is at this moment to trust exactly in feelings, and not in logic, not in consciousness which is actually… IM: This is the trouble of many people I will give a simple example As of today, there are indeed very many people among clergymen, they study their religions in order to just take the step by means of AllatRa But this is certainly known For many, it’s no longer a secret either, because this is spoken about openly But only a few talk openly And why? Because, if it hasn’t been blessed, well, somehow, it is not allowed to take food from someone else’s table when one is hungry himself T: While the greatest blessing is this very… IM:Say, I have a different question, God’s table, is it really someone else’s? If a person is hungry, is it really a sin, say, for a dying child to take bread from a father’s table, especially when he’s not against it? Well, somehow, it’s not completely clear why people act this way It seems to me that if a person is really looking for the path, if a person really strives for home, for God,

then there is nothing forbidden that leads one to God Isn’t it so? And how can it be otherwise? Consciousness of some people resists, but this is normal, consciousness must resist Because how would it perceive that which prevents that very satan, let’s say, from controlling people? All the more, what we are talking about, this Knowledge, it indeed helps to become this very Love, helps to… Well, let’s say, AllatRa – it precisely cuts kettlebells off people’s trowels It simplifies everything a lot. It also simplifies people’s understanding, and… It is simply the Knowledge How easy and simple it is for those clergymen who have accepted AllatRa, who have feelings themselves and already are in contact with God’s world, to convey the truth to their people as well, to those who come to them The paradox, you see… The paradox is that in their organization, they have to keep it in some secret Although, as of today, very many… I talk to many clergymen about this Some of them even… when they need to ask questions, they come to me secretly from others The funniest thing is that others come from the same people, and also secretly from those ones I even asked some of them, “But why do you hide from each other this way? Well, I’m just interested They say, “Well, you see, it is the custom.” I say, “Who has made this a custom, people?“ Isn’t you yourselves? Well, this is the paradox They complicate their own life Humans What can be said here? That is, there is some kind of, so to say, minuscule, imposed fear, an illusion from the system Consciousness From consciousness From consciousness It just blocks this sincere craving… Well, here again, let’s say, the more independent a person is, the easier it is for him But when he’s dependent… Well, there are certain rules, they have to follow them But all this is temporary, it will pass That doesn’t save Well… God saves Here, after all, an understanding that God saves does play a great role, too What is the choice of a person himself, what is the role of a person himself? IM: A person’s choice. I will put it simpler: if a person doesn’t choose God, God won’t save him And one can choose Him only… It won’t work otherwise Through feelings Of course Mind won’t choose God for sure In the expression of this very Love in every second, in every instant Life Life in God This is exactly what’s called Life Yes I have prepared a video And I would really like to show the video A little surprise for us Well, let’s watch It’s just that It’s just that I wanted to acquaint you, because thanks to the fundamentals which were brought, let’s say, also into religions, and thanks to understandings which were shared, by Father Andrei as well, there are indeed understandings which helped me in my time And I can say, it was sort of a springboard for me to move on And, of course, real spiritual development started already when… Thanks to AllatRa as the Knowledge of the Truth, when I came to understand these very keys, how to do this, meaning, well, everything went somehow easily and quickly Well I don’t know… It’s just that moment when, indeed, as you’ve said about the kettlebell, when AllatRa as the Knowledge cuts this very kettlebell and not only from the trowel But it cuts the kettlebell, so to say, of this consciousness, and you as the Personality are already in freedom But I will put it this way: AllatRa doesn’t cut the kettlebell of consciousness This is a person’s choice AllatRa is merely a tool, and whether to use it or not, that is already the choice of a person I will say, having accepted AllatRa and feeling AllatRa inside, this, IM: It’s a big difference T: I can say from my experience, T: is a way to freedom IM: One might accept, but fail to feel Yes, I accept But what do I accept? Only a book or a conversation on TV Well, we have talked, communicated But if a person doesn’t really accept internally and doesn’t stand on God’s side, he will still remain under satan’s control And you can’t get away from it, and this is true Well, let’s watch We come to church for trifles Something has started aching here, or somebody has fallen ill

Or we want some changes Or we want some, you see, square metres of living space And there is some quarrel We come for trifles And here we understand that we should be asking for something different We should be asking for salvation of our immortal Soul Because everything that is temporary: all sorts of living spaces, money – all that is rubbish In the Eternity, it won’t have any value Well, where will you take a million or a billion dollars with you? What do you need them for in paradise? You don’t need them Well, what will you take there? Your “I”? Some kind of abilities of yours? Some kind of your… You see, there is Love there And where there is Love, there are totally different things, the last ones become the first Well, he is funny in three-dimensionality What I would like to say regarding this case He does speak correctly And the person has had contact, and he does understand the essence of things, but at the same time… After all, words, even those which we speak, they carry certain, let’s say, understandings And these understandings in a distorted version, they continue to prevail Why in a distorted version? Say, salvation of one’s Soul… We say this, too This is usual practice But the Soul – it is immortal, it belongs to the other world And at the same time, in our society, salvation of the Soul is talked about everywhere Not salvation of oneself thanks to the Soul, right? The Soul is again that very tool thanks to which we can save ourselves But this directive, it makes one perceive the truth differently And a person cannot feel this And it turns out that we invest the power of our attention, these very spiritual powers, into salvation of the immortal You know, what would I compare this to? I have the following association A person has fallen overboard. The sea is raging, ocean all around. He is running out of strength Friends have noticed him and have thrown him a life ring And the person thinks, “Oh! It’s a life ring. I should save it.” And, with the last of his strength, he is drowning himself while beginning to throw this ring back onboard Well, this is really so Just a simple lack of understanding of what the Soul is, IM:…the process of salvation, what the Personality is, of course T: what the Personality is… of one’s process of salvation This is serious, in actual fact Lack of understanding of what consciousness is, whom it belongs to What the Personality is, how it is conceived, how this process happens And what the process of salvation is Salvation is the Personality getting closer to the Soul, fusion, and an Angel forms It cannot be otherwise But again, for many, this will be incomprehensible in consciousness How can it be? It is clear, here’s the Soul But then, what do you have to do with the Soul, if it is something sort of a third, yes? But also… we are saving the Soul This is same as there are some people, once we already addressed this in one of the programmes Well, you meet, people come, you hear a lot about where life has been throwing them… it gets interesting It turns out that there are some religious organizations, sects, where they are engaged in saving God So, God is in such a miserable, diseased, pitiful state that He needs to be saved And so I ask a question, how do you save Him? “Well, we,” he says, “we send our love, we cry, we suffer.” In what? Can one help God in crying, in suffering? God is the Spiritual World It is boundlessness, it is eternity And who is a human being? Even a group of humans who haven’t even had contact with these… let’s say, who haven’t had contact even with this light coming from the Spiritual World They are just under consciousness’ control due to pridefulness… Well, I look at these things and can but marvel how powerful the devil is after all And what humour he has, amusing himself with people this way in their process of salvation After all, what attracts them, first of all, is the aspiration of the Personality, of the Personality for salvation It really feels that this does exist That immortality exists, that God exists, the Personality of every human being does feel it all Consciousness doesn’t perceive this, it stands in the Personality’s way to God and keeps it away from there, and does everything possible in order not to let this process take place

We have already said more than once how beneficial for consciousness is the state of subpersonality or, speaking the religious language, a person’s stay in hell For consciousness, it is prolongation of its existence for many centuries to come And for the person? After all, this is suffering After death, a person clearly understands what a kind of mistake he has made I mean, after the death of the body, when that which we rely on here, in this three-dimensionality, and what we operate with, vanishes: our eyes, ear, hands, and all the rest This is great too, this understanding why the devil needs this, that this is his food The devil… The devil just wants to eat This is all simple and corny A human being is food A human being, since he or she is soul-filled and not just spiritualized, – there is a source of these divine powers within him or her And no matter how you slice it, everything happened according to God’s will, and He breathed life into everything Well, it’s natural that this reflection, a parody of the world, I mean the devil with his illusions, it feeds on these powers, while a human being is the source And the more he distracts of this attention which should have been directed at salvation, at reuniting, the more he… the more sated he gets, let’s put it that way Because this is a beast that feels constant and eternal hunger Try to restrain your consciousness, and you will see how hungry it is. Like, just any human being can be without a thought, without a picture, but still not asleep And that’s it |That’s precisely the feeling of hunger Do we really order those thoughts that come, is it us who want those pictures? No Consciousness tells us that you want this, you need this That’s the way it ruins people’s life and diverts them from God And such substitutions come from consciousness Just a little alteration: save not yourself, but your soul As little as that And about Love, after all, there is Love there There’s nothing other than Love there And what says that it was first, becomes last, and last becomes first… Well, God’s Love – this is the first thing, this is the only real thing, and it should always be first to people Whereas, consciousness substitutes all this Well, what’s interesting is… What’s interesting is that the person really tells the truth, that one should not ask for anything, it’s all trifles How can one come to temple to God and ask Him for health or for square metres? Well, that’s great, let’s say so, according to AllatRa Yes It really coincides with what is being told… With the truth T: Yes, it coincides with the truth, IM: It coincides with the truth, coincides with AllatRa but these keys are missing Well, you also said that let people just try to stop this flow of thoughts, and you understand that indeed, it’s impossible to stop the thought flow, impossible… IM: It’s not within human power T: Not within human power, but… Even in deep meditative states, when ostensibly they stop… No, they do not stop They put the power of attention into a three-dimensional image or into a stretched-out thought, but they are still feeding the system In other words, mediation – it is precisely a method of feeding Well, meditation, in actual fact – this is work of consciousness with consciousness Either way, you are feeding the system, well, what’s the difference? Well, isn’t it so? It is Does consciousness stop? No. Consciousness merely tells you, “You’ve stopped me, you’ve stopped me You don’t have a single thought.” In other words, the result is such an interesting point that What is sinfulness? Well, they say, in order to defeat sin, one must not think about the bad IM: And what is sin? T: This is a vicious circle, yes, meaning… Let’s start with the simple What is sin? It’s a loss of contact… Sin – this is exactly the service to satan Can anyone forgive me my sin? Here, I’m asking a simple question To absolve me of my sins or to forgive me my sins Meaning, my connection, my service to the devil, can anyone forgive for me? IM: Well, here’s a simple question T: By means of repentance By what repentance? They will assign reading a prayer to me I will kneel in the corner and read this prayer Will I be forgiven? And, at the same time, I will be listening to my consciousness In regards to who has put me in the corner and made me read this prayer What is sinfulness? And what is sinfulness, and what is sin in general? It is exactly the service to satan and subordination to one’s own consciousness, subordination to satan That is exactly what sin is And how can a person get rid of sin? A simple question

T: Turn one’s attention towards Love IM: Absolutely right That’s the only way That’s the path of attaining Life In sin, with sins, a person cannot enter God’s world And sin – it is precisely consciousness Meaning, it’s been spoken of since the dawn of time I have already mentioned Zoroastrianism today, there they talk clearly about it And this is the pre-Christian religion People knew about this They had knowledge about it Later, it got a little distorted. Well, it was beneficial for someone, after all, these are manipulative technologies, that I forgive you on behalf of God Human, how can you forgive anything to anybody on behalf of God? Become a part of Him, and you will understand that this must not be done Igor Mikhailovich, here, they also say that a confession – this is, it might be said, a restoration of dialogue with God T: But, in essence, it is only IM: No it is only the first stage of like, working on oneself T: To learn how the devil acts inside of you IM: Absolutely right Once, a long time ago… Yes, we have spoken about this more than once. There were Cathars They had catharsis – purification This is precisely not a confession about the fact that I’m sinful and have committed something It was already later that it was all turned upside down: like, I gave in, the devil seduced me There was exactly work going on Regular work on how our consciousness operates It was studying of patterns as a team: what consciousness tells me, what it tells you And we see that one and the same command comes to us at the same time When we observe this, we see it And we understand this pattern, we understand the programs, that you and I are like two computers, sorry, and the devil is like Internet that imposes the same programs on us, and that’s all Well, and having understood this patterning, we just tell him to get lost along with his programs, and then he starts to perform the function that we need, right? So, we need to eat in the morning, go to work, accomplish this and that, and that’s it, and then don’t bother me And so, it executes this program while we are Living We are abiding in Love while it is working That’s how it should be This is precisely getting rid of sin Meaning, to force the one who makes us sinful work for us This is right That’s how it should be How can it be otherwise? So, actually, this very process of catharsis, yes, which Cathars also called this way — this is just the point for you to understand how… It was the process of learning Also, how it works in you IM: Of course T: That it’s not somewhere from outside, IM: How it works in you, how it works in others T: not general phrases… These are not general phrases This was thorough study Every thought that comes was studied, it was everything… Well, it was a different, it was a working process And then, even among Cathars, it all started to change Among them, some kind of ritualism also started showing up a little in this process, and then it went actually all the way down to a ritual. And how will it end? That, pardon me, heaps of people come to confession, but the priest doesn’t really have time. Well, it requires time, well, it’s understandable. He is one, while parishioners are many, well, he has covered one’s head, “Have you sinned?” “I have sinned.” Murders and everything “Have you sinned?” “I have.” But if I haven’t killed anyone, why should I confess? Or I haven’t stolen, so why are you telling me? And they stand right there and prompt, “Say: I have sinned and I’m a sinner, Father.” Well, how? Well, if I haven’t done it, if I haven’t even thought about it, well, why should I confess undeservingly, right? Abuse of authority Indulgence Absolutely right, yes Well, it’s kind of funny, but on the other hand, one can understand him, too After all, people come while on the wave of consciousness, they want to talk They don’t really come for spiritual joy, they come to get something It’s like Andrei was saying just now, they come for square metres, to increase it and something else, for money Meaning, not in this sincere work on themselves, not in understanding that maybe… Well, what this work on themselves can lead to, and… People don’t even know what work on oneself is It seems to them that performance, even for those who try and follow the spiritual path, try to even follow it… They — this is performance of certain rituals, quantitative, as it should be, those very prayers, that very repentance, attendance of the church at the right time This is good, this is wonderful, this is really good, it’s much better than nothing However, it is done without the inner feeling, it doesn’t give us anything It’s merely hope that if I act this way, then after my death, as it is written, at some point in time after the Great day of Judgement, I will be resurrected, once again young and vivacious Life is cultivated here during this life Well, and how otherwise? True Life, it cannot be in body, it can’t be in matter, this is unrealistic This is… And this was known since the dawn of time. And once again, it was talked about The saints talked about it, too Well, isn’t it so? Why then did they rejoice when their bodies grew decrepit

and died? While they precisely ascended in Spirit. And that’s what they talked about, that don’t get sad, this is just a body Dust to dust Spirit to Spirit Well, isn’t it so? Well, let’s watch more It’s interesting There are words of Silouan of Athos that it is not important whether you are a worker or a king This is how it can be said who you are there: it is not important whether you are a metropolitan or an ordinary church janitor, do you understand? But, what is important is what is inside of you Say, a person has come into contact with grace of the Holy Spirit, and suddenly Life has emerged in him, and you see this in his eyes, the eyes have become different This is what is valuable And here he is telling the truth God has appeared in his eyes One has to fight for joy But how? By no believing in a sin For example, you feel bad, depressed, you are not in a good mood, everyone is happy, but you shouldn’t believe yourself Church blesses you to rejoice. So, rejoice Here is a good question, right? And here the absence of tools is clearly seen The answer is simple, and the argument is weighty. Church blesses you to rejoice, so rejoice But a person has no understanding and no knowledge, what should he rejoice at? And who in you will rejoice? Will consciousness rejoice? Here, he knows, he feels To be more precise, he unfortunately doesn’t know, he feels how it should be, but he doesn’t even know how to describe it In this is the trouble of many such people who, I am saying again, are standing at the door, knocking, feeling, but lacking just a little bit This very understanding of distinction between what joy from consciousness is, joy as an emotion – an artificial one, and true joy He knows what true joy is, that is why he is filled with this wisdom After all, he actually says a lot according to the AllatRa book, but he doesn’t know it And there is a lack of tools to explain, but the excuse is simple: “Church blesses you to rejoice, so rejoice” Whereas, consciousness will be against it Well, how is that, he has blessed me to rejoice, so, well, I will rejoice What will I rejoice at, if there is sadness everywhere? A simple question, at what? If consciousness is against it Meaning, what’s paramount It is, above all, precisely that love inside which is the trigger of emergence of this joy, one might say Love It is just love, exclusively Real love, love of a Personality for the Spiritual World When one, by giving back this Love, starts getting even the first response from the Spiritual World — that is happiness T: We are talking about precisely this joy IM: Of course It is already a power that starts entering you It is already the power of God And what is the power of God? This is precisely AllatRa But AllatRa, pardon me, not in the sense of the AllatRa book It is just a book Can it be sacred? Well, say, without having felt it, consciousness will distort any information, even the one which is set forth in the AllatRa book But it enables a person to… And here you have given the answer: that which is set forth in it But, after all, not everyone will also be able to read it right and to gain that Knowledge which is set forth in it if one just goes through consciousness – it is impossible Why do people read it 10 times, 20 times, and every time they find something new? To which extent a person is ready, that’s the extent to which it reveals itself to him Whereas, in actual fact, it is just ordinary paper Isn’t that so? With regular signs If you don’t know words, don’t know this language, then you won’t be able to read it And it will be empty However, you will always feel those who have AllatRa inside And this is indeed already the truth One can pass by any scripture, but it is impossible to pass by anyone who has AllatRa inside Here already either consciousness will get activated, will look askance, or the Soul will start singing Here already… Again, you see, “the soul will start singing” — it’s an expression which is stereotypically used in our society But it is not the Soul that is rejoicing, it is the Personality that is rejoicing It expresses a song, a continuous song of Love for God Of course Well, let’s watch And you should understand that sin lives in you, which now wants to spoil the feast for you, for you and your close ones Why should you trust it? Trust the sin And it, the sin – this is precisely consciousness He is saying correctly here, “Lives in you.” Yet, where does it live? Christ never urged to coups or revolts He urged people to Love

That’s right The only thing Jesus urged to – it was Love Also if we take Muhammad, what did he call for? For Love And he said that the time will come when there will be Love all over the world Meaning, Islam in the entire world, but in the proper understanding – it is God’s love that should be all over the world Yet, in our society, division immediately begins. So… Islam – it means that they should dominate everywhere with their customs While we are speaking of God, we are speaking of Love, of something greater Of something greater than mercenary interests of a narrow circle of people Well, so it is perceived And who is it perceived by? By consciousness And why? Because it has divided everything Thus, it turns out that consciousness divides, while AllatRa unites Let’s watch God’s Love is what we can build everything in general upon, everything in this world It’s the foundation of everything, you see So, when there is grace in you, you will forgive, and you will reconcile yourself, and you will be patient, and you will keep quiet, you will bear another person’s infirmities unconditionally, without any sort of human justices and judgements, you see He is really telling the truth Not to be insincere, not to lie to oneself, first and foremost, you see Not to be insincere and not to lie to oneself I would like people to cherish this Love which the Lord gives them, I would like them to cherish and value it, after all Well, I would like to see peace in people, and then everything will become simple, and there will be enough Angels Joy in that beauty, in that inner freedom which emerges in a person, perhaps, it emerges for one minute, but it is already there There is already some path, there is already some choice And you already know that all this is not hopeless, when you are pressed down to the earth, when you really understand that sooner or later everything will end And that’s it And suddenly you touch Eternity This is what joy is You understand that now there is already a different dimension, now there’s already no time, there’s already no space, now it’s Eternity – Is it liturgy? It is liturgy, of course, first and foremost, but it is also a human being And here… Here, this is also an interesting point, right? And what about liturgy? And liturgy is, of course, first and foremost This very instance when a person is really feeling And here it is interesting what he has been saying just now about the supreme, about the real As for the woman in front of him, I don’t know her She is concerned about earthly things, she is concerned about rules… Well, pharisees Pharisees, you know who they are, don’t you? They are those who do everything by the book They were not bad, they were merely pharisees. They did everything by the book, but didn’t go further And so now we have very clearly encountered the person who has partaken of Life and is speaking not of the flesh, but is speaking of Life And the person who lives by earthly values, the visible ones, rituals and all the rest How strikingly different it is, right? This is exactly why I love Andrei, he is alive May God still grant him the ability to take the step You can also see God This is also the word of compassion, which perhaps will indeed grant a person such joy, such fullness, because this word is from God This is also some deed, when a person does it regardless of his certain state or mood Well, after all, one should do this for God, and the person is still going And here, there is an important point In actual fact, God needs nothing from you, you don’t need to do anything for Him But when a person feels that he can help somehow or anything else, well, this is like service to God, right? In this very understanding But here he exactly approaches and says that, even while being despondent, a person still does this sincerely, he does this as if for God

And he goes and overcomes. But here he is talking more about himself, about his own experience And it’s really interesting That is, this happens precisely in spite of his consciousness, regardless of these directives from consciousness This is exactly the fight, this is exactly the personal Armageddon. And he is a wonderful example, so to say, of a person who… who is really striving, who has lived through this experience, and who is aspiring not to live through it again, but to come and stay there Well, consciousness hampers a little Well, this is good If consciousness didn’t hamper him, he wouldn’t have been aspiring so much and wouldn’t have been fighting, he wouldn’t have been overcoming and spending energy, right? AL: …on a fight with himself And then the Lord comforts And at a certain moment, here I can say that when I wasn’t christened yet, there were minutes of such joy But it was probably in childhood, I recall, I had such a question regarding death, it concerned me a lot Later on, this somehow got smoothed out, but it was very painful and acute AL: And I didn’t understand how it is if there’s death and that’s it, and there’s nothing You needed someone to explain why it happens so AL: Well, somehow this wasn’t even discussed at our house I was christened in front of the icon of Our Lady of the Sign, it was on the 10th of December 1978 But before that, I had already been actively searching for God for several years It was possible to be occupied with and keen on all sorts of things, including oriental, Chinese wisdoms, various human teachings that were logical and understandable to the earthly mind And suddenly God’s miracle occurred. Suddenly you… are living through… entering a different dimension You are living through some moment, instant of life, where everything and everybody are in their places Meaning, in this world, you feel all the time that something is wrong, something is not as it should be You try to find something, but cannot find that which… You don’t even know what you’re searching for Because you feel bad inside, you don’t have that… that fullness of life which occurs when you are with God And so when this happens, when a person touches this Love after all, then of course, the person’s entire life changes After the christening, a miracle occurred, and I was born again I lived through this physically, and later on, for several months, I somehow couldn’t come to my senses because of joy, because everything was… Everything was in light In light was everything. And people didn’t understand what was happening to me Relatives wondered, has he gone crazy or…? Because your eyes are sparkling, because you look… And you understand that this is where life is, this is the temple It is in it where there’s life, real life But you still know nothing, understand nothing, you come to the church and wait for the Holy Spirit to descend upon you And He descended There were very many such tragic moments, I would even say, because after you had been christened, you started living in some light But you didn’t understand this light, where was it from? There was no humbleness in you, and eventually you started judging someone You saw that people did the wrong things, that people did something carelessly, that there’s some slyness, and you began to judge And this judging had resulted in the fact that I lost God’s grace and was suffering greatly IM: And here we see his revelation. And this is true Not judging. Well, it’s not a matter of judging, it’s just the work of mind While he was Living – he was Living. And then consciousness distracted him, and that’s it And it enslaved him. But he does feel, and he is telling the truth. And he knows,

and he does have this experience, he is striving for it IM: While he just needs to T: Just to pay attention again… IM: Lack of knowledge T: Lack of knowledge IM: Lack of a tool and ignorance of the fact that… T: It’s just that so many people all over the world now really… clergymen… IM: Are in the same situation T: Are in the same situation, when they feel grace and… IM: In all religions at that T: And it is very easy to return to this state. But one abides in… IM: There is one point here IM: When a person opens up for perception of God’s Love, really opens up, Light illumines him But after all, it’s a temporary phenomenon, it is that maximal help which may descend on a person for his zeal, for his faith, aspiration But it cannot be everlasting It is only an insight, it’s an experience which he gains, and then everything is in his hands It is sometimes a hard, protracted labour, but it depends on a person While it can also be very easy After all, there are many people, and there were many people, and I hope there will be, who have overcome all this very easily They just stepped aside from this fight and observed consciousness until it got hungry And then they treated it as an animal: you want to eat – do that, you don’t want to – starve And everything fell into its place. Any animal becomes tame if one finds the right tool for it Likewise, consciousness is easily trained T: How easy it is, after all, for people who, so to say, having felt such a degree of grace and descent of the Holy Spirit upon them and having lost, so to say, living in such hell… I: For sure… T: Yes, I mean, without this grace… T: How easily, with such an aspiration, with such a thirst, well, so to say, they return Home. That is… IM: Well, how easily? They easily return when they not just reach the door, but also understand that it is open Here’s when they, certainly… They cannot be persuaded anymore that there is no God or the Spiritual World doesn’t exist Here consciousness is powerless But it exactly possesses power on his way, leading him astray and driving him to mistakes, into despondency, into anguish Here, he is saying that “Church blesses you to rejoice. So rejoice.” But he doesn’t understand what the joy lies in, and what it means Drop down and give me twenty Here’s the point T: And the fact that such people themselves perfectly understand that simple compliance with this set of certain norms of Christian spiritual life… IM: And this is wonderful T: To these feelings which they have experienced… IM: Yes, this is wonderful. But at the same time, it disciplines, it is good And it’s not worth being despondent. But they don’t tell you how… how to gain this everlasting joy after all T: They themselves don’t know IM: Yes If he possessed these tools, he would have been one of the first ones to forget what sorrow is Because he does know the value of this descent of the Holy Spirit He does know what the AllatRa flame inside is… Let’s watch some more AL: I don’t understand what had happened No way I could agree to become a priest I understood that I’m losing freedom, while I am a freedom-loving person, I loved to travel And, generally speaking, such things… And I saw a lot of everything, everything that could be seen, including the negative, and how… how people lost God, how people got inflamed and died out When they found out that my father worked at the Higher Party School, taught, trained party personnel, while his son worked at the cathedral, this was a tragedy for my father It was such a big moment of ordeals, of course, for me and for my father who later on became a truly faithful believer Certainly, there was a goal The goal was to help people, and it remains this main goal There was a hospital, there was an opportunity to help these people, to go to them, you see, not just to change diapers And a person is leaving this life without having had contact with the most important, you see, with his Creator, nor… it is hopeless, you see Without… without… Generally speaking, in despondency, in despair, and that is terrifying, it’s the death of the Soul

And so, of course, there was a goal to help IM: And again, we come up against what? Not saving ourselves as a Personality, but helping people T: Because you wish this to yourself, for your own self… It’s just that at this moment… IM: Also, an attempt to please God IM: Meaning, we do pious deeds, we talk about God, but… This is great, it’s how it should be But again, this is an imitation of those who had attained this very fusion, who had gained Life here And once again, even having gotten inflamed like the archpriests, it’s true, they do get filled with this power, this fire, this warmth, and already, whether you want it or not, you will be sharing it, this is a need If you don’t have a need, that means you are smoldering, or there is only silence in you at all But when the fire of God’s Love is burning in a person, it’s impossible to hold it in, this is true Here it’s already, you’re not forcing yourself, this is an inner need Consciousness might resist It’s for it like… it’s lazy But what can it do? It will go and take care of people But at the same time, he is very close to the Truth and says many right things, yet there are these instances of personal suffering, let’s put it this way, due to the absence of tools, nothing more than that T: This is a common kind of aspiration to help people, but… On the one hand, it’s right, but there are no tools of how you can help T: Like help in the external, right? That which actually all people should do IM: In the external, yes Of course, it should be natural T: People’s natural attitude towards each other… IM: And those who embark on service to God, their task is precisely to help not in the external, not in the visible, but where their assistance is really much more important and more needed… Well, let’s put it this way, thank God, at least there are such heroes as Andrei T: Because, at least a person definitely doesn’t lose faith in goodness while near them IM: That’s already a good thing T: Yes IM: That’s already a lot IM: And sometime someplace, one will stop oneself from doing something bad, and he will be remembered somewhere with a kind word And that’s already good. Anyway, goodness already starts to prevail in such people And this is already a step towards victory. Let’s keep watching. It’s nice to watch good things Meeting-conversation with Archpriest Andrei Lemeshonok Full version is available on St. Elisabeth Convent channel AL: And there will be many mistakes But if one does nothing, you see… IM: Here, he is right, too AL: …of the whole world. And think that this is spiritual. It seems to me, this is a substitution For us, precisely for us IM: He understands correctly about substitutions as well AL: To educate very many people, not just monks, but also the town church There are 200 people now in the town church, the female town church Homeless people whom nobody needs except God, you see And Father Nikolai told me, “You will be saved for the prayer of sick ones.” It’s impossible to live without God Well, it’s simply impossible And this is not a theory, we do understand The Lord says as follows, “Without Me, you are unable to do anything.” Therefore, you know, I advise you to receive communion as often as possible IM: And right here, the priest has switched on While before there was a person who sincerely strives for God, right here in front of people, the servant of exactly an organization has switched on right away This is good, and he sincerely aspires and all that. But… Where is the point? T: It’s just that there are no tools and understanding, meaning, there is no true understanding of what communion is IM: Of course. And here he says, “Receive communion as often as possible.” This is wonderful for those for whom communion is certain means, let’s say, as a tool, yes, a tool for returning to perception through feelings While for the majority of people, it is a sort of an ordinary three-dimensional action which takes place. So what? T: Pure formality IM: So what? Has a person really changed, has he felt anything? No Has he started working on himself better? No Has he indeed partaken of what “Jesus’ flesh and blood” is? Surely, not. All of us are clever people, it’s the 21st century, well, wine, bread Well, this embodies. Well, if this embodies, then it like helps as well, right?

Well, I’m not saying that it is bad It is good for those who know and perceive this ritual action as what it should be Who understand that it’s not the flesh that should be eaten and not the blood that should be drunk… T: To merge… IM: Certainly. This is some sort of cannibalism And the one who understands how deep it is in its essence, that it is unity, it is merging with the Spiritual World, it is spiritual convergence with Jesus Christ, meaning, well, it is that which bears something greater in itself Whereas here, even a simple explanation is such that one should receive communion as often as possible… T: This merging happens thanks to a person’s choice… IM: Of course T: …to love and to express this Love right in the moment here and now IM: Well, consciousness, after all, it perceives directly and substitutes just like that without explanations, and everything gets distorted And we begin to save the Soul and to help people, and to consider that this is pleasing to God when at the same time we don’t want to do this, forcing ourselves Although this should be a natural need We don’t create conditions for it to become a natural need for every person. Isn’t that so? T: That is, in society there should simply be… IM: Certainly, many serious issues are touched upon IM: But here I… The more you are showing me, the more I get convinced of how powerful satan is after all, when he simply deprives even strong people of tools, and little changes of commas… how tragic this may be T: Because under the words, there is no aspect of feelings… Well, how… IM: Of course T: There is no practice of exactly feeling of all this That is, it’s not supported exactly practically… IM: There is aspiration, there is experience. But where is work? AL: But according to my experience, I will say, I was at a dead end at a certain point for many years Precisely the fact that I was ordained as a deacon, that I started receiving communion… This saved me Confession is a conversation with God Speak in your words, in your own words, don’t make up anything A priest – he’s just a witness for you, he must provide you with… he must help you Do you understand? Well, or at least, not hamper IM: This is correct AL: It is very important to be in incessant prayer – it is a constant connection of the Soul with God The moment this connection is lost, yes, and a person already does something wrong, you see, here we already… IM: The Soul cannot lose connection with God, because it is itself a part of the Spiritual World It is we, as Personalities, who can lose connection with the Soul And so many people, especially those who start performing spiritual practices, or such as the archpriest who is living by this feeling, and so at the moment when consciousness wins, the first thing they feel – it is pressure right here, as this silver thread gets blocked, and the Personality’s connection with the Soul gets lost And that’s it, attacks from consciousness begin, and the world becomes grey And daily life turns into hell until, well, as he says, that he has got out of it – he started taking communion and got out of these states Well, for him, this is sort of significant. But this can be because he understands correctly what communion is, while for others, it might not work But if they knew the essence, if they had experience, this, of course, would work wonderfully T: Meaning, in his case, there was a sincere appeal IM: Of course T: …to God at that moment. IM: That’s the only way. With perception through feelings IM: Let’s continue AL: One needs to run to the emergency room for resuscitation Resuscitation – it is repentance, confession Meaning, it is treatment. I came to the hospital, “let me not leave unhealed” And after we… after we were resuscitated, we were cleansed, we can fortify ourselves And here the Lord says, “Here is my flesh”, He is preparing a meal for us We should perceive it this way, you see? Maybe, this is not quite theological… IM: And he says it, you see? AL: No, I am hungry Sin has, you see, worn me down. I am, you see, in torment, suffering What for? Lord, help me! And so we taste “Christ’s flesh and blood”, and we restore our connection with God. And we again IM: Well, at least he explains it this way. It’s already good Well… It is close, let’s say, for people’s understanding, this is right…

T: To partake of Christ… Meaning… IM: Well… It’s meant spiritually here, yes AL: One again needs to enter spiritual life… life eternal… Everything that is outside of Christianity, outside of Orthodoxy, is built on pridefulness All this knowledge, you see, it… IM: And here, look how different he is now He is just different Now the bucket is empty “Everything that is outside of Christianity is built on pridefulness”, – and now an arrogant man is sitting and talking about it IM: Isn’t that so? T: Is it precisely an exaltation that representatives of one religion talk about exclusiveness and… IM: Of course. It is like… Once I gave an example regarding religions, what they are, of father and of children It is the same as one child would say that he is a true child of his father, while his brother or sister are not the children of his father Well, how can this be? T: How sort of subtle this substitution is, how clever… the system, the devil is that even in this regard, it is just… IM: Well, the trouble here is also in the fact that any organization is, first and foremost, especially a religious one, whether it wants to or not, but it will be saying that it’s closer to God, and so everyone must repeat this and insist that they are unique in front of God Well, it is the same, like I said, as one of the children says that he belongs to his father’s family, while the second one – this is an accident T: Instead of just loving the father IM: Instead of just loving, right Yet, it’s immediately evident, how it is remarkably different, after all, he is saying this to people, he tries to keep them within Christianity, maybe he does all this with good intentions, but it’s not true And now he is speaking now while he is empty Excerpt from the video A conversation with father (March 20, 2018) AL: They surprise one Of course, they can sometimes inspire a person for some period to such an extent, you see, it was very trendy at that time, but today we also have Hare Krishna adherents and various other movements, you see Here, a person wants to get into heaven on his own, and he is climbing. Do you understand? It is the Tower of Babel, only in such an Indian style, in an oriental style But all this leads in a wrong direction Whereas in Orthodoxy, the path is completely different – it is through penance, through humility, through realization that I myself cannot do anything without God An Orthodox person cannot say, ”Here, look, I have become better and better You see, I pray, I have more and more grace Actually, God is in me, just here, you see, I am burning.” People will say, “He is crazy.” Yes, and, of course, they will call a doctor. Something is wrong, yes, his eyes sparkle… You see, that’s it, I… Other than that, oriental people, right. This is it, you see, this is it – this is already nirvana, that’s it, I am in the astral plane already, I have already got it all… You see, this life for me already is just… IM: Let’s stop at this, let’s better have a good impression After all, we are fully aware that precisely this side is that very stumbling block in front of the open door It is clear what he is trying for and what he wants, how he wants to show something good, to express it Yet, what is it? It is judging It is exclusivity of one child before the other It is sad, of course, but it happens quite often T: It’s just that we have touched upon this issue now, the issue of this very pridefulness, T: when representatives of one religious belief talk about their kind of… IM: They exalt themselves above others, with their exclusivity But this is consciousness speaking in them, and consciousness catches them at that After all, the devil is cunning and powerful, we have already talked about it more than once And one of the favourite manipulations which he perpetrates in human head or, as it is said, in consciousness – it is precisely this very pridefulness, pridefulness and belonging to the chosen ones, meaning, the process itself After all, when he spoke on his own behalf and about something else, he spoke frankly, he was filled, and he precisely lived by those feelings, by those memories about his experience, and it was obvious that he is like a flower reaching for the sun, right?

As soon as he got up in front of people and put a mask of leader on himself, he started carrying the burden of responsibility for the organization, and that was it T: Meaning, that even those moments of going back to that state of perception through feelings, memories about it T: give rise to this very inner flaming of this very alive IM: That was sincerity. Of course T: Whereas, a dry word IM: You could hear this echo of the Holy Spirit which had abode in him Whereas, here, it is just the work of consciousness, just commonplace T: Lack of tools, knowledge And it is just when IM: Of course, it will make an alive one dead, the devil is strong T: But why does this happen? Because there is no experience? IM: Well, it happens because the system actually, as we discussed already, wants to eat, it is insatiable And the more so, it directs all its efforts towards keeping a person from spiritual salvation It is not advantageous to satan And since it’s not profitable to him, this means that it spends more energy on those who are stronger But it is natural that he has to, as when a person awakens spiritually, he should be more careful and understand elementary things, that he will definitely be attacked By all means, pridefulness will sweep over, that which must happen will definitely happen, meaning, the attack of precisely these demons in the head T: You know, this very example – it is a vivid example for many people even to see and understand where you are real, T: and where these very mechanisms of something alien, foreign are switching on… IM: But this is very obvious T: …of unreal. And it can be seen, it is felt by every person IM: After all, if we look at him, right? Here, if we take the two pictures and compare While being alive, how he was saying when the Spirit comes down, descends on a person, yes, then the person gets inflamed, God is with him, meaning, it can be seen he’s alight And it can be seen when, let’s say, pridefulness ignites in the person, then spirituality is fading And these two pictures are merely the exact opposite of one and the same person Whereas, in actual fact, these very divisions which he arranges, and after all he, the devil, arranges them everywhere: in a family, in a community, in any of those very religions, if we look, they have confrontation going on with each other Someone constantly competes with someone, and so on – everything is divided, and in the same way, religion divides within itself Well, this is normal, this is his tool It’s just that when people would… if people knew this, they would have been able to resist this easily: consciousness says one thing, while a person as a Personality orders it to do something else IM: And everything falls into place T: It is so interesting T: that it turns out that even representatives of different religions at times don’t know about each other IM: Of course, they don’t know T: Because for me it has become, let’s say, news how, so to say, representatives of Islam speak of Christianity, of Jesus Christ IM: Well, I will say, in most cases, they speak very positively, because they know Him, and in the Qur’an it is written about this, and they know all this very well T: Yes. But what do, let’s say, believers in Orthodox Christianity know about that very Islam? IM: In this case, if we look, like in Andrei’s case, when pridefulness gets activated, and belonging to the chosen, it blocks the way to the Truth And that’s it, people may just not know, while they know only what they see on TV. Yet, what is shown on TV? Do they really show us true Muslims who indeed live by God, who are indeed filled with this God’s Love? And how many of such Muslims are there? A lot T: The system sets people against each other… IM: By all means T: …and simply tries to disunite I: For sure T: It forces one not even to look in the direction of a different religious teaching, of people of a different religion… IM: And not just religion And in religion – all the more so, because religion – it is exactly tools of salvation overall And, naturally, it’s the area of satan’s enhanced interest He will do everything to make them divide, separate T: I’d like to show a video about what representatives of Islam say about Jesus IM: Let’s watch Excerpt from the video SURVEY: MUSLIMS ABOUT JESUS Full version is available on NUR channel Aidan Mamedova: A survey among Muslims whether they know who Jesus is — He’s a prophet of Christians, a prophet of ours (Muslims) He’s not a prophet… Yes, a prophet He was born in the land of Israel He is honored by Muslims just as he is considered to be a prophet of Christians, he is honored by Muslims as well

He is our prophet, too — He was a prophet, a messenger like our Muhammad A revered prophet. He spent many years in exile, endured a lot, and there was so much humiliation Exactly. And the last thing – they forced him to carry the cross to Calvary and hanged him on this cross Yes. It was for his call to the Almighty, to the One, to God’s Unity — Jesus was a prophet, he called people to monotheism This is what I know about him And also that people have distorted many of his messages. This is what I know — Jesus is God’s messenger In Islam, he is Issa With the help of Allah the Almighty, he raised people from the dead The fact that he had lived to the age of 33 years This is what we know in Islam — And how does He differ in the teaching of Islam and in the teaching of Christianity? What does He differ in? – He differs in nothing The fact is that all the prophets who came, who had been before Prophet Muhammad, they were teaching monotheism IM: Well, here’s the answer And if we ask, if we conduct such a survey among Christians, do they know who Muhammad is, right? T: And what One God they’re talking about IM: And what One God they’re talking about And here they say, “He is a prophet just like our Prophet.” Yet, will Christians say that Muhammad is a prophet just like our Jesus? No Why? Because our Jesus – he is God’s son But what did Jesus say in this regard? That all of us are God’s children Didn’t he speak about this very thing? And didn’t he teach this very point? At that, isn’t Prophet Muhammad a son of God? Well, isn’t it so? And what example did both Jesus and Muhammad show? How much time did Muhammad spend in prayerful practices, in spiritual practices during a day? And how much time did Jesus spend on prayers? Isn’t this an example? What opinion did they voice about other religions? And what did they say? And what are their followers saying? Here’s a simple question And I’m always amazed how, so to say, followers, relying on teachings of the prophets, of God’s messengers who… of God in Whom they believe, how they distort the words of their own prophets… And often, quite often, unfortunately, ministers of one or another religion distort the words of their own prophets, that on which their religion is built upon, and begin to interpret from their mind It’s clear that consciousness interferes, everything is clear But it’s not clear why people believe and listen? For this is an obvious divergence from what God’s messenger taught Well, isn’t it so? And they do know their holy scriptures, but still listen to their earthly authority, don’t they? One who says directly opposite things, distorting those very words, and they don’t admonish him and continue following him Here is the paradox Who is above all? It’s clear that God is above all But was God’s messenger, the one on whom a religion is built, was he less right? And in, God knows how many years, some person who doesn’t know God, but talks in his own way, is he higher and the one to be trusted? And so, the paradox is that consciousness believes, it makes people believe These are convenient ways for manipulating believers, specifically those people who are striving for God A convenient way of manipulation by consciousness Meaning, it takes its, let’s say, conductors, you can’t say otherwise, conductors of satan’s will, it elevates them, exalts them, and makes people follow a false prophet Well, and then people with such false teachers or authorities, or false prophets, whatever they are called, they run around in circles But still, they never get anywhere It’s better, as they say, to slowly limp in a straight line than to run around in circles with such authorities Actually, this is wrong

I would compare this to… I’ll go back to the desert again, this is easily understandable People who are thirsty, who are walking in the desert under the burning sun, being exhausted, they come to the source To the source with pure water, and there’s enough of it to satisfy thirst, to stock up, and to keep moving… But here, an authority tells them, “No, don’t drink from this source Let’s go! There, you see, there’s an ocean on the horizon. We’ll endure a bit, but we will arrive And from the true enormous source, we will not only drink our fill, but we will swim in it.” Well, and people, following this messenger from satan, arrive at the ocean But, as we know, ocean water is not suitable for drinking So, there one remains This is sad, actually T: The subject of authorities also… It turns out that… Who creates… IM: People create, people… IM: No one creates, people themselves create authorities After all, they show their willingness to subordinate exactly by being supportive. How can it be otherwise? After all, it is obvious, it’s apparent who is filled with Spirit, and when one is filled And it is obvious who is empty And this is felt. How can it be otherwise? For example, if it were up to me, I would have stopped Andrei when he started talking about this, had I been there But I would have listened to him with pleasure when he talked about something else, that’s a different matter Isn’t it so? Isn’t that how believers should act? Shouldn’t they defend, regardless of who is in front of them, defend the truth before anyone? Right? And so, this paradox, it continues, and it can be observed everywhere And again, those same authority issues, management issues, they force those very believers, those very monks, to hide the AllatRa book T: Fear IM: Fear. Fear of whom? T: When life is at stake IM: Here’s the paradox. Certainly IM: They study it, they try to cognize it, they do cognize it, but they’re forced to do this covertly And so, when asking those priests and monks questions, I already said that they have come from many religions, but not all There are already many who speak openly, that they are not just reading it, but they also tell others about it, because they have already grasped this essence which is set forth in it And they understand that it doesn’t get in the way of their religion by any means, but on the contrary facilitates and simplifies this path And it facilitates precisely conveying the Truth to those very parishioners as well as their own comprehension And many are already using it openly and are not ashamed, are not afraid of this, and nothing terrible happens Well, of course, there were also those who, having come to someone else’s abode, tried to bring in their rules coming from the mind With the AllatRa book in hand, but from the mind Certainly, such ones must be driven out, no matter what they have in their hands This is also right T: You have also said such a thing that everyone… Well, it’s like, a faithful person… well, we might say that it would be right to act in such a way that at those moments when what’s being said is not the truth, to stop it But people don’t have an understanding of this truth… T: Or why does it happen? IM: There is comprehension, people feel, people really feel T: What holds them back? Is it this…? IM: Fear IM: It is just fear of an authority. If he is an authority, that means he’s right There can’t be such a thing. Verity and the Truth — it is one for everyone And again, a person who is striving for God at a collective… It is, after all, collective work that’s going on — like, the meeting What’s the difference? If he has appointed himself an authority, or if people have appointed him, then his responsibility is ten times greater than that of a regular person After all, he takes on the responsibility for other people as well And there’s no room for pridefulness here Isn’t that right? T: The question here is just what’s more valuable for you… IM: The Truth T: …increase of a flock or so that everyone… IM: That’s what I’m saying, the truth or profit? And here, much puts everything in its place, unfortunately But it’s all surmountable It’s all temporary. And it will surely pass T: I think that many people will later on just… Well, like…

smile when, having felt already, so to say, this very Life, thanks to the Knowledge… IM: And one should not smile, but should help A simple understanding that this very authority, being a priest or whoever he may be, but if he takes the floor, and he is broadcasting this word in front of people… And, all the more, he is teaching them, and at the same time, he is turning into an empty bucket, and begins to trumpet from the mind, from satan… Then their task as, first and foremost, like in this case, as Christians, is to stop this disgusting thing which is coming and broadcasting through the person After all, Andrei’s problem here is only in the fact that he has listened to his consciousness He has merely given the floor to satan And this is inappropriate Isn’t it so? T: What do you increase? Yes, what do you increase, bearing such a responsibility for the destinies of millions of people? IM: Of course. Of course If he even had an understanding, he wouldn’t have allowed this But he is simply defending his corporate interest as it is said But may an interest really be above spiritual salvation of any person? It seems to be a trifle But it’s not a trifle T: However, everything can change at any minute, as they say, God works in mysterious ways, and… IM : Surely T: How fast, well, how people… IM: Once we have already said that neither rivalry nor comparison should be allowed After all, he was speaking of comparison as well, that it’s intolerable. And one shouldn’t judge T: Loss of grace IM: Certainly, this leads to loss of grace Religions should be united spiritually And we should, at least, understand that if we pray to one God, then no matter how they call Him, others pray to the same God, then they, at the very least, they are our brothers T: Once you also said that unification of religions exactly in the system, it is impossible because it leads either… IM: Of course T: …to merger or to acquisition. IM: Surely T: But it is possible for every person within the limits, well, of his religion to come to… IM: There should simply be an understanding: if I pray to God, and you pray to God, I call Him by one name, you call Him by the different name, but God is one, then what disputes can we have with each other? I have my traditions, you have your traditions, we should just respect them And I will say, if there was a family in which… Well, there are actually such families in which, for example, right? Say, there are such families in which there are representatives of different religions This is really wonderful This is indeed wonderful. God is one, but traditions are different, and there are more holidays Well, is this so bad? In my opinion, this is wonderful T: Holiday of the Spirit – it is one more, well, as if, well, so to say, one more reminder so that… IM: Well, holiday of the Spirit, it should always be present, and it mustn’t be lost Whereas, ordinary mundane or religious holidays, joint ones, different cultures – well, this… this is interesting in actual fact. This enriches life Anna: After all, it is true, people, they use different… during prayer, they may say different words, and there are different languages, right? Different trends. But inside they do feel one and the same thing, internally they strive for the same How can a person do it so that not words would come first, but feelings? IM: But words don’t work In actual fact, you can utter “abracadabra” and mutter whatever you like But the main thing is feelings which arise in you, the feelings that come from the Personality And words are needed so as to deceive and to defeat consciousness So as to, just like a drop of water wears away a stone, in the same way the words of prayer, they, while coming from the Personality, they pass through consciousness and reach the Soul You see, they remove this very obstacle This is precisely perception through feelings happening Whereas, words, in this case they are like an understandable tool for tuning of a person himself, so that he… he would tune in correctly and turn the power of his attention in the right direction Merely for this. Here, if one speaks with prayer, then prayer is by no means, as we already said, a dialogue or a monologue True prayer – it goes without words True prayer, it is expressed through feelings Does Love have words in fact? It is the deepest inner feeling. Right? It is what makes one happy Well, here again, while giving this feeling the shape of words, we substantially diminish it

Well, and we not just diminish it, but we make it less valuable and important Why? Because there are too many interpretations of that very happiness and that very love, which consciousness has fragmented and uses where it likes, right? But genuine Love – it is the only one that can evoke the deepest feelings, and it is the only one that fills with the Holy Spirit Anna: And this Love – it is what every person, who truly feels, comes in contact with… IM: The one who sincerely seeks God, in spite of everything and everyone The one who truly seeks the Spiritual World It is simple T: I would like to say that… speaking for myself… to express profound gratitude, of course, to those thanks to whom this Knowledge has come into this world, because IM: It has come only thanks to God IM: Everything happens according to His Will T: To those who truly serve Him… IM: No one would have brought it, and no one would have done anything There is no one except Him, in this case, let’s say, as in many other cases, when this Knowledge has been brought Where is anyone’s merit? T: Yes, and it is the choice of every person to accept it or not, but anyway… Well, to remember, of course, that this consciousness always gets denser on the path to the what is genuine, and one should simply trust the feelings, trust one’s inner self… IM: One should not just believe… T: But know… IM: Faith… Faith – it is good, of course It is better than emptiness, but Knowledge is much better IM: It’s better to acquire experience T: To verify IM: Today, as it turns out, we have a day devoted to archpriest Andrei After all, he has gained an experience And this experience has guided him through his entire life Yes, he has, just as all people, questions regarding, let’s say, relationship with consciousness and in matters related to service But, nevertheless, he has gained the experience. Isn’t this valuable? After all, it is knowledge It is knowledge that this does exist Now he has faith and hope that he will acquire it, let’s say, not as a one-time occurrence, but that he will acquire it forever This is faith. While that is experience, that is knowledge And, having right tools and a right approach, he would have gained the knowledge that he has acquired it, not that he will acquire it some day Right? Is it complicated? It is not complicated at all And if this is accessible to children, then for adults even more so In general, I wish that, of course, people would grow up Grow up in a spiritual sense Well, this is everyone’s choice And here, of course, one can see the biggest justice, and it can indeed come only from God – the freedom of choice which is given to every human being A person chooses whom to serve: God or satan, a person chooses to Live or to die Everything is in his hands And, again, it is in the hands of people whether to unite or to separate, to be good or to be evil – everything depends on a person If a person wants it – he comes to the side of God and resists satan, and serves God If he wants – he serves satan and resists God. This is his choice Well, he won’t be able to resist God, but it is possible to resist the spiritual And this is done by some people quite successfully And the last thing I would just like to say is that in reality, a person himself is a creator of his future And this life is given to a person in order for him to make a choice, for him to build Life Eternal for himself or to dig a grave for himself This is the truth, and you can’t get away from it T: God grant, Love will triumph IM: Love – it is what every person should possess There should be plenty of it in everyone That’s the point Then it is an ideal society

And it is possible So, let’s love each other. It is simple