IGF2019 – Day 0 – Saal Europa

High Level Internet Governance Exchange Plenary

Saal Europa ]

>> Dear ladies and gentlemen, a quick announcement. Is is

there any panelists in the room who haven’t taken their seats in

the first rows that are dedicated seats for you?

The panelists slated this day at 11:20. Please take your seat in

the first rows according to your colors. Thank you very much We’re going to start in a couple of minutes for sure. Thank you >> Dear ladies and gentlemen, would you be so kind to take

your seats all. Thank you so much

Dear Federal Minister Peter Altmaier, Excellencies,

Ministers, distinguished representatives of all take holder groups, esteemed guests, welcome to the opening Plenary of our High Level exchange on Internet Governance I want to extend a very special warm welcome to our keynote speakers Fatoumata Bâ and Joe Kaeser. I welcome you to this High Level gathering where we’ll discuss no less than the future of the global Internet We will enter into a multistakeholder dialogue on how to ensure an open and a free Web for all, how to create a reasonable and effective global governance framework and which information to take into account to pave the way together I’m a journalist based in Berlin, and I must say I’m very honored to be your host on this year’s IGF Following the understanding of an open sphere, what we are creating here, we have people all over the world out there in various remote hubs, and they are going to join our discussions, not only in this room, but over the next days So you all please feel very heartily welcome to join us And I’m glad to hand over the stage to our Federal Minister for Economic Affairs and Energy, Peter Altmaier. Very warm welcome on stage [ Applause ] >> PETER ALTMAIER: Good morning, everybody. I will switch to my mother tongue which is German immediately, but let me first of all extend a very warm welcome to all of you This Internet Governance Forum is perhaps the international meeting and Conference which is growing in importance meeting by meeting It’s not just because of 5,000 participants are so important, but it is because the Internet, the World Wide Web, is so important and is growing even more important for all the citizens of this planet [ Captioner does not have English translation ] — but that also villages in Africa and Latin America are

connected to the Internet but also rural areas in the Germany, France and the U.S So, yeah, we’re discussing fast broadband which is increasing in importance. How can users remain in control of their data and remain open for innovation, inspiration and the integration of new ideas What technical and legal framework do we need where the freedom of the Internet is respected but where our business and private data is also safeguarded. How can we make sure that the Internet does not become a place for hatred, crime, and slander, that it’s used as a driving force for innovation What will the Internet be like in 30 years? And what do we need to prepare today? I’m looking forward to all this, and I’m proud to be also moderating this exchange The High Level Internet Governance Exchange is the starting point for an IGF that will preserve well established elements but also set new priorities. Tim Berners-Lee asked a new and important question: What social Contract for the Web do we need? We can only discuss this by working together These are political, social, and economic questions and they’re all difficult questions but we cannot evade them and this is why I would like to present you a few ideas, what elements could be included in such a social contract Ladies and gentlemen, this is the first time that we are also trying to focus more on the interests of small and medium sized companies and we’ve also organized a few workshops beforehand Germany will present a Charter, because we believe that the Internet is only there for the academics, for large companies and citizens, but that the Internet is also there for all economic players, and it’s important for all of these players Ladies and gentlemen, if we want to create a new social Contract for the Web, then we need to look — we also need the legitimacy by, we need Parliamentarians to sign this off in individual Member States but also in different regions and I’m also happy that representatives of the German states are here today Germany feels obliged to also be constructive to provide the necessary funds, one million per year up until 2025, and we also want to listen to others to work out compromises and this is why we want to make this process an irreversible process, and that our Polish friends which will organize the IGF next year will be able to pick up on what we work on this year Ladies and gentlemen, we want to overcome silo they thinking. We want to make sure that we develop a common understanding, that we recognize the problems and that we also try to solve the conflicts. I think the multistakeholder approach is the right one. Everybody’s talking with one another on an equal footing We must ensure that it’s not the most powerful that dominate the Internet. That is a principle that we need to hold dear Only if there’s a very high level of flexibility will we

have the opportunity to keep up pace with the dynamics of the Internet and digitalization Last night I was at a dinner organized by Ambassador Ishinger, and I talked with Vint cerf and I said the Internet is similar to the big bang billions of years ago At the beginning you see development where you don’t really know where it’s headed and 50 years ago Nobody really, nobody was really aware of the potential that the Internet held and today, we’ve made seen a glimpse of the potential there is in the next decades and centuries, all of this potential that’s there for the citizens and we must not lose these developments We need to create a framework that we can continue to expand Many people today are asking how we can provide Internet access for everyone. Many think that it is something that we cannot provide and are despairing. In Berlin we had a wall for 28 years and this wall separated Germany and Europe and then we were convinced that we would never be able to overcome it and so it was not the policymakers but the people who believed that we must not restrict freedoms and it’s not possible to restrict freedoms for ever so they exerted their rights and they made sure that the wall fell and peacefully so the cold war is a thing of the past today But the hopes of the people now that the cold war is over, have not all been fulfilled. In many areas we’re still seeing disparities. We have different levels of access to the Internet but also to energy, to education and health care, and to life quality, and we will only be able to change this if we’re ready to use the new digital opportunities we have and ensure that many people can live a dignified and prosperous life And that’s what the founding fathers had in mind, freedom, emancipation and progress The Internet does not belong to one person or to one country It belongs to all of us. It belongs to humanity And this is why we also need to say that we’ve achieved a lot already but there are still big risks and threats. We can see there are attempts to exert control over the Internet or parts of it We can see that there are attempts to take a unilateral approach to shape the Internet to restrict the free flow of data, and to use filters, firewalls and to disconnect from the Internet Ladies and gentlemen, I am convinced, based on my experience, that all of these attempts will fail, but it really depends when we will realize that our future can only be realized in a multi-stakeholder approach. We need to look at the heritage of the people and provide free access to the Internet for people That is a physical issue of course. You need tablets, Smartphones, you need electricity and you also need also some education to be able to use these new opportunities I am convinced that Internet access has become a fundamental human right It is more than a right It is a human right in all countries of the world. So it’s not a question of infrastructure or technology It’s a question of our joint human values. It’s also a question of growth, innovation, and employment. Digitalization is the right tool to realize the Sustainable Development Goals of the United Nations, and this is why all countries, also the developed countries, emerging countries, should be interested in having the Internet available in all regions of the world so that their people will be able to realize their potential The Internet has the potential to

connect the entire world? Many are looking at the risks as well but I am convinced that the benefits of the Internet are far greater than the risks I am convinced that a truly global and interoperable Internet where we have a free flow of data where the individuals have the opportunity to use the Internet for their purposes, to move ahead in their lives I’m convinced that this Internet is a positive thing and that we as policymakers have the responsibility to develop a certain type of governance that ensures that everybody can share in the benefits So we need to avoid a po lit politicization that’s are with is vested interests. The Internet must not become a power tool for certain institutions, states, or regions So if you only think about the Internet in terms of spheres of influence, then this is not going far enough. If you try to organize the Internet alone, then you will miss out on many opportunities that other countries have, and this is why, ladies and gentlemen, we have a shared responsibility We have overcome the Cold War between states, and we need to make sure not to fall into old habits This is why we need a cooperative multi-stakeholder approach This is why we need an Internet Governance that represents what the IGF is all about: Openness, broad participation and the productive — and productive cooperation and different opinions The United Nations have asked us to take a coordinating role in order to implement the recommendations on the future structure of the Internet Governance and we feel obliged to this. We want to continue existing processes We do not want to create ever new institutions In Spring 2021 to present results and in autumn 2020, the United Nations will celebrate its 75th anniversary and this will be fed into the documents that will be released on this anniversary. We will think about which International Organizations, which Forums will also be included in this process Ladies and gentlemen, I think we should think about maybe forming an Internet 20 group, a Multistakeholder Advisory Group for the digital Ministers and Heads of States of Government We also need to be ready to talk with one another, to send us emails and text messages and to use the Internet also in order to work together at the political level Ladies and gentlemen, we all know what’s at stake. We have all come here, ladies and gentlemen, because we are convinced that the Internet will have a positive impact on our countries, on our world, that it will contribute to reduce poverty, foster education, and also protect health care and the environment, that it can also help us — it can also foster tolerance and peaceful co-existence of the people. And this is why I wish you an inspiring Conference. I’m looking forward to the keynotes that will be held shortly Thank you [ Applause ] >> Thank you very much, Minister. In your speech you just raised war at the beginning you raised the question how to frame a new societal contract for the digital era. With the Charter of trust initiated by Siemens, the company has been sizing for data security that was in February 2018, in cooperation with the Munich security Conference, and various High Level partners from politics and the economy. It has been backed by the Paris peace call for trust and security in signer space so the Charter of trust initiative called for binding rules and standards to build trust and cybersecurity and to drive digitalization forward so I’m very honored to introduce to you now the man who is not only behind this initiative, I’m sure there’s more to come in a minute, so please with a very warm welcome, welcome with me Joe Kaeser, the President and Chief Executive Officer of Siemens AG. The floor is yours, please, Mr Kaeser [ Applause ] >> JOE KAESER: Thank you very much for this very kind

introduction It’s always about a team, not so much about a Chief entertainment officer, who eventually then brings forward what the team has actually been capable of doing Thank you for your kind introduction on Siemens, too, and thank you all for the invitation to speak to the — in front of the United Nations, and when I look into the audience, as far as I can see, see — I always have a tendency to look for the next quarter so I try to look all the way to the back This is the world, it’s the world in terms of gender. It’s the world in terms of internationalism It’s the world in terms of technology When we talk about Internet Governance today here in Berlin, this ladies and gentlemen has never been that timely. It has never been that timely as it is today, not just because of the 30 years anniversary when the wall was torn down No, it’s timely because we are at the time that on the one side Nationalism calls for borders, for restrictions And on the other side, technology, technology opens up the space for realtime connectivity all over the world So there is a decisive moment in time, because we see people go this way, and we see other things go that way The question is how are we going to bring this together in a media called the Internet, which is extraterritorial by nature, which connects people and things all together So how do we do this? If we have nations who naturally, naturally are being used by territorial integrity, borders, laws, habits, cultures, they’re all territorial by nature, and so we need to figure out how are we going to do this, because 44 Zeta bytes, that’s the expected size of our digital University version by next year 2020 which is today already 44zeta bytes, that’s 44 with 21 zeroes behind it That’s a number 40 times larger than the number of stars of the observable universe today So that’s the amount of data we are going to deal with That’s what technology and the Internet, we are living in a hyperconnected world, with 5G, we are realtime connectivity with or without certain companies. It doesn’t really matter, the technologies is there and we will have it, and we will have more data being produced, more things and people being connected all over the world, and we need to find out how are we going to organize that? How are we going to deal with it? How to make sure that there is unlimited access to something which will be decisive for the 21st and potentially the 22nd century in a planet like ours? At the same time, of course, you need to understand how are we going to deal with cyberattacks, they have become much more common than they used to In Siemens alone, we have this old-fashioned company which really doesn’t have a lot to, let’s say, to hide, but still, we get about 1,000 cyberattacks each month I do know of companies which get 1,000 a day Maybe they are more fashionable, more interesting, I don’t know, but to look at it that by 2021, that’s not that far away, the world will likely spend more than 6 trillion, 6 trillion to avoid damages being caused by Cybercrime So there needs to be one way or the other and the players are not just some amateurs or some disgruntled employees, or some people who need some popcorn. Some are in an apartment and never show up in life. No, ladies and gentlemen, those are also very powerful nation intelligence sources, also in

the private sector, because believe it or not, know how has a value and know how is data and therefore people are after those. We need to think about how do we handle data, how can we support clear rules, and how can we help to correct global extraterritorial standards in order to deal with that what we call a free Internet and I believe ought not just to look at Governments and say, tell us what the law is, or wait and see No, I do believe that we do have a responsibility to work also together with the Governments all over the world because companies like ours, Siemens, we work in 203 countries, 203 Kown frommies in the world. We’re in China, we are in Russia, in Iraq, in the United States, Germany, France, everywhere, everywhere, and that means that we too have a natural interest on the free flow of data, all making sure that those data are flowing realtime, yet be protected on the other hand And therefore, we need to be really clear on how do we organize that And I very much welcome Minister Atlanta Myer’s approach to creating infrastructure in order to make sure we can protect what needs to be protected and that we also cause and create that they also cause and create competitive environments, so that we have something to offer. Ladies and gentlemen, that’s the good news. The other news is of course now we need to get to work. It’s got to be operational. It’s got to have content. It needs to be organized We already are very much looking forward also to what Tim Berners-Lee will be saying about the Contract for the Web which is being launched later today I’m really curious because this philosophy a very important voice has been one of the founders, the pioneers so his work certainly counts And for us in Siemens, of course, this is not about big companies It’s also about how are we going to include the small to medium enterprises into the value chain? Because everything is connected The weakest link in the value chain will be the issue so we need to make sure that small-medium enterprises have free access to our cloud-based Internet platforms so that they can use the protection, the realtime connectivity which we can offer as big companies We in Siemens believe many things have to be done but we have 6 proposals we want to make and we are working on First proposal for a free operational protected yet accessible Internet First one is we need to make sure, we need to make sure that the intent of any use of data has to be clearly defined and transparent I call it the integrity of the intent, integrity of the intent We’ve got to make sure that everyone who uses platforms knows what the data he or she is going to give are being used to, the integrity of data This needs be done. This is relevant and the integrity of the intent needs to be enforceable, ladies and gentlemen, by international law, because of the territorial nature of the Internet Second, make sure that the data owners are in control of their data Nobody wants to send photos to anybody anywhere and know the intent, that’s fine but think about data which have been introduced as know-how We spend about 7 billion Euros every year on R & D and that R & D has an outcome as cost, that’s IPR, that’s intellectual property rights, know-how Know-how is obviously well sought and people want to know about it. That’s why cybersecurity breaches are happening, know-how so with data are know-how, we need to make sure the people who want to use that data are going to pay, the

ones who have been curating that knowledge for billions and billions and billions of dollars in R & D and engineering and productivity Third one, cybersecurity. I mean, this is very clear We did discuss it time and again and we can talk till we are blue in the face about cybersecurity What we wanted to do and this is why Siemens has been initiating this Charter of trust, we wanted to make sure that we create a set of rules which are being applied to by all of our value chain contributors, our suppliers, our partners, in terms of ecosystem partners which we are going to work with, a set of integrity that if you follow those, you will have easier access to our supply chain. You’ll have easier access to go and get purchase orders as we do In the meantime, we have more than 16 of most international companies having followed that, and there’s going to be more and we are going include the small-medium enterprises which are not that capable, which do not have those many resources to protect their own data and their own value chain We’re going to be there for them because managing companies, doing business in the future, is about creating ecosystems by partnership and helping out the smallest for the greater good of the bigger ones. That’s also how things are going to work Next one, obviously, very important, practical and very important, co-creation. An ecosystem creates data People working together, universities, suppliers, customers, you all work together for a greater good of a better product of a better solution so if that is the case we also need to make sure that co-creation which creates so much value for society, for businesses, that this co-creation is legally possible and that means if we work together with competitors for setting standards, that needs to be looked at as a co-creation, as a positive way of giving greater good to people in society and not as a breach of European anti-trust rules, and fine companies for billions and billions of dollars, it’s outdated because it’s looking backwards Also those regulatory methods need to be looked at because co-creation in an ecosystem is the place to go in the future using the Internet Next one, data for the public good And I’m not talking about sharing messages, photos, or whatever you want to share with your friends and colleagues and the world and hopefully other places in 30 years, but doesn’t matter. I’m talking about data for the greater good of society. There are many. However I want to mention one, and that’s the method of health care Medicine, pharmaceutical research. Weave got to make sure that those tera, terabytes of data are being put together and analyzed by artificial intelligence so that we can defeat the human pains in the world If we want to defeat cancer, quicker than before, if you want to defeat critical issues like Alzheimer’s and the like we’ve got to work together. We need to use the data which is available. We cannot wait till some Governments or public sector people are getting their act together, till we can use those data for the greater good of our people That’s relevant. That gives us the opportunity to bring this world forward also in terms of diseases and other issues which we can help serve society Ladies and gentlemen, transparency can control, security, co-creation, shared data and sustainable values, those are the principles we’ve been putting together in this Siemens data Charter, Charter of trust and this is what we are going to pursue with all our partners in our value chain because at the end of the day, it is really important, at the end of the day we need provide some actionable ways of dealing with extratear roar territorial and in dealing with the Internet and with our partners going forward so it should be an inspiration, a motivation for policymakers to work more with the private sector on this so that we get the legal issues out of the way that you can have what we want, the Internet being there for everybody, data being protected as long as they generate knowledge and know-how, because that’s also IPR going forward And together we must, this is really

important, we must define those standards, rather than waiting till we are being defined We have been late in doing this, very late, but it’s not yet too late So if we don’t define the rules, somebody else will, and that’s the second preferrable option Second topic is, ladies and gentlemen, we need to make sure that we can organize the Internet in a way that the Internet is going to serve the people, it’s going to serve society, but make sure that it’s never going to be unfair, never going to be unfair, that the Internet also enables us to deal like human beings still: Respectful, telling the truth, be honest about what we want to do with the data, and then make sure that the human being, every individual, every company, every society, is not going to be let down by the power of some certain powers in this world And if I hear decoupling, if I hear decoupling, decoupling the Internet, decoupling societal values, decoupling the value chain, it’s terrible to hear that, decoupling Decoupling means dividing The wall, the physical examples on how to decouple two German nations has been something which we could see every day for many, many years till the wall has been built so we could see it But, ladies and gentlemen, decoupling the society and the Internet is invisible, is invisible and that’s why we have this responsibility that we integrate, we tolerate, we tell the truth about our intent, and what we want to achieve and at the end of the day, companies, ladies and gentlemen, are not there, are not there Companies are not being built for serving Wall Street Companies are not being built to serve society for the greater good of its people and that’s why we do need the Internet so that we can enhance the purpose going forward With that, I thank you very much. Different view from a different company, how to make it operational, so thank you for being here, all the very best for the United Nations Forum and I look forward to the discussion. Thank you very much [ Applause ] >> Thank you very much, Mr Kaeser, for this really highly passionate keynote. I’m now very happy to introduce Fatoumata Bâ to all of you in the room and out there who don’t know her yet, she’s a tech entrepreneur and VC investor Currently the Founder, Executive Chair of Janngo and the managing partner of Janngo capital Shall I stop now or go on? It grows and invests tech, with a very inclusive social impact and I shorten a bit. She’s a passionate leader, very passionate about leapfrogging development through technology in Africa. She serves on various boards and her commitment has been rewarded with several distinctions, including the World Economic Forum young global leader, economic leaders of tomorrow and Forbes Africa 30 Very happy to have you here, Fatoumata Bâ. Enjoy her [ Applause ] >> FATOUMATA BA: Ministers, ladies and gentlemen, when the organizing team asked me to come and give this keynote, I fell a huge sense of responsibility, because in Africa today, technology in general and Internet in particular is helping us leapfrog development On the global stage it’s already acknowledged that roughly 30% of the global economic activity which is $60 trillion, is transiting through tech platforms. And I was very happy that in the morning you were asked to bring your passport to go through security checks because you needed to come with me for the next 15 minutes and see in many African regions how this is actually already happening on the ground Today, we already have more Internet users in Africa than Europe or the U.S , and in 2050 it will be even more massive. We’ll have

actually roughly 1 billion Internet users by then which is twice as much as Europe and 3 times as much as the U.S. and basically the importance for us is critical because not only it’s creating an impact in terms of GDP and economic PowerPoint but most importantly it’s helping us find massive ways to bring inclusivity and by that I mean you all know that we have this huge demographic question ahead of us, we’re roughly 600 million Africans 30 years ago and in 30 years as I’ve said it will be 2.2 billion and basically we use technology as a way to have access to very fundamental needs such as Financial Services, education, health care, products for retails, agriculture and even services and I wanted to give you examples about how every one of these key services is today being accessed through the Internet in Africa. If I take Financial Services for instance, overall we have less than 20% of people who own a Bank account and have credit cards through traditional banking in Africa Yet because we have been witnessing a very strong technology and mobile revolution, you actually have today more mobile phones on the Continent than actually people And in a country like Kenya for instance, you have already today as I speak 50% of the GDP that is transiting through mobile Financial Services, and it’s acknowledged that by 2050, we’ll actually have up to 90% of people in Africa being able to access Financial Services through wallets and 60% of them having access to Bank and Financial Services through technology When we look at education which is also a huge question in terms of development ahead of us, we have to keep in mind that by 2025, we’ll have roughly 25% of the youth will be on the African Continent so education challenges are massive. If I take the example of a country that I know very well is which is Côte d’Ivoire, I’m investing in several companies, you actually need already today to build every day one classroom to get all kids to school. That’s very tough and that’s impossible taking into account we’ll be heading millions and hundreds of millions of kids and here also technology is a very powerful tool to bring knowledge to these kids and make sure they have access to the same opportunities and software education especially with young girls There is a third dimension which is health and health care Today on the Continent we have roughly 1 dock for for 100,000 habitants and 3 nurses and here as well we are increasing productivity for improving public service expenditures for Governments, I think with up to 60 billion Euros that can be served up till 2025, it’s actually vital and a matter of life and death improving access to hospitals, medical labs, improving access to information about quality nutrition, information about chronic disease, so beyond the economic impact the social impact is huge and massive There is another sector which is also very close to my heart which is retail and the reason is before becoming a venture capital investor myself I used to be a tech entrepreneur and I co-founded what today is the largest marketplace in Africa which is listed on Wall Street, and in a matter of 6 to 7 years we have created 5,000 direct jobs but most excitedly we enabled roughly 500,000 SMEs to leverage technology and be able to serve the customers giving them products in terms of choice, in terms of quality, in terms of convenience. It’s also very important because if you are lucky enough to be born in the U.S you actually have there today one retail outlet for every 400 inhabitants. In Africa today we have 1 retail outlet for every 60 thumb inhabitants so here technology also becomes a way to magnify access to goods It’s not only about selling Smartphones and very expensive Smartphones I was actually very proud to have some in black Friday 2015 when I was leading our company in Nigeria to have something that people they eat there being a top seller on the market so access to products has leapfrogged in a very strong way in Africa today and beyond retail you actually have everything around global trade and value chains. It’s always

very frustrating for me to see these numbers about Africa inclusion in global trade We’re actually less than 3%, 3 to 5% of global trade which doesn’t make sense and when I look at the reasons why, one of the aspects is because of the very high cost In the U.S usually it takes I think 6 to 7% of the cost of a product to move goods In Africa, in East Africa for instance it can be as high as 75% to move goods so how can you competitive to trade globally when it’s this expensive to move goods from one point to another? And with my venture capital friends for instance we have started to invest 18 months ago in a platform in Côte d’Ivoire, and the reason why was that basically you have so many farmers that don’t have the opportunity to sell their products because they stay rotten on the stem and in Africa you have as much food waste in Europe but it happens upstream because the products aren’t moving fast enough into value chains and they’re creating very bad impacts because environmentally it’s also producing rotten, socially the farmer has worked, has sweated and he’s not getting his incalm back and economically of course it creates a huge waste and one of the other portfolio companies that is very exciting to me is actually in East Africa called trigger foods and basically what we have been doing through the investment is to have SMEs and farmers in particular get higher wages because you reduce the number of territories while reducing the final cost to the end users we call it mom and pop stores, they are people that are selling on the streets fruits and vegetables and they started with bananas so it’s better for the farmer, it’s better wages, it’s better for the end customer and the SME selling on the street because the cost is better. It’s better for the planet. Because usually I think food waste in East Africa is across 45% of the production and here it was brought down to 15% loss so it’s really critical And beyond agriculture you also have of course every kind of basic services for Government because at some point you don’t have access to Internet and it’s all promise of democratization if you don’t have an ID In a country like Rwanda, I think 3 times in the last two months because I’ve been fascinated with technology happening there, you actually have 97 public services on line, so beyond a Visa or even as an investor if you come you can create a company in less than 6 hours through a Government led technology platform So this is really something very important and very massive that’s happening at scale. You should not think these Sectors are not Representative of development at all Oftentimes I’m told yes, but Fatou, how can you make Internet a priority when people don’t have access for instance to energy? That’s could be a fair question because in Europe you certainly need to have access to energy because before you can enjoy the benefits of technology services But let me tell you in Africa actually, accessing Internet and owning a mobile phone is helping you also access energy and there’s a startup for instance in Kenya that realizes that so many people were left out access to energy because they could not afford paying monthly bills and they needed to have something tailored to their financial abilities and capabilities so they developed a pay as you go access to energy scheme, and today they enable more than 200,000 people and households that would not have had access otherwise in any ways to energy. So even access to energy can be actually enabled through the democratization of technology Yet, I see so many times the conversation around Internet Governance being driven by fear and I can understand the fear We talked about risks, cybersecurity, data production and it’s true but I firmly believe we have all the common responsibility to be first enabling the massive opportunities and I could not agree more with Peter Altmaier when he’s saying the Internet is a human right today. In my Continent it is certainly one and beyond the civic rights it creates opportunities for SMEs to have access to markets. It creates opportunities for SMEs to access to working capital, to be able to trade globally, create jobs which is really something also not so acknowledged in developed countries We need 20 million jobs by 2050 to cope with our increase in

Africa and only taking into account the impact of economic platform, there’s a study by 2030 will create 3 million net jobs, so even with this, it is something that’s received as an opportunity and a benefit However, we should I think regulate for the good, taking into account how to enable the opportunity for the many, while mitigating the risks, and also learning from the past insights or mistakes to make sure that the increased access to many citizens of all massive and essential services that Internet has enabled in the past decades also is something that happens on the supply side When you have new coming into a market that competition can be fostered and also the cost of Internet can be brought downwards It’s really critical and is not always rational. I was in Kegali for a similar Forum but for Africa and I was very shocked to see that the cost of producing the same unit of data was $8 in Rondi They are a landlocked country and they don’t have access to submerged cables. Côte d’Ivoire has access to the sea so the role of policymakers is to see how to enable again all the positive and actually the development technology can help leapfrog while creating a competitive and affordable way to access Internet for the many, especially for emerging markets It’s really something that is critical and I hope that when you finalize your workshops at the end of the four days, that you will make a significant improvement in addressing these very specific points because again beyond unlocking an economic opportunity we have actually a triple responsibility, which is how to keep striving economically but also how to make sure that we drive the social change that is needed, that we don’t miss the opportunity to drive more inclusion and we also don’t miss the opportunity to have positive impacts for the environment Thank you [ Applause ] >> Thank you very much Thank you very much, Fatoumata I heard people whisper, I think you impressed us all. Thank you very much for this very strong impulse We are a bit over time so what we’re going to do now, you are spreading into your various panels you’re individually interested in. We have the panelists sitting in the first rows connected to the various colors I will show you now. You follow your interest You can choose two panels. That means you can go to one room in the first panel and choose another one in another room for the second panel. We will squeeze the panels down to 30 minutes each because we will — I’m so sorry Because we have to restart at 12:45 in this room again with Sir Tim Berners-Lee. We will have helpers outside with lollipops in your various colors so if you’re interested in data rights, please go to Room II This is Europe, room II and III are to your right if you go out If you want to go to room V and IV you follow the vertical and go straight so please make sure and all the press members will please meet now with Minister Altmaier in front, take the left door out in front to your left for his press statement, and please leave your headphones on the seats Please you will be helped with other headphones in other — yes, the hostesses, the helpers with the lollipops are just outside of the room and make it quick, please, the transfer to your room. Thank you very much for your attention [ End of session ]

Panel on Access and Infrastructure

>> Good morning everyone Sorry for the delay We’d like to start with our panel on access and infrastructure. May I ask the panelists to come up to the

stage please and everyone who would like to join this session, you’re free to sit on the first rows as well. There’s enough space everywhere so please don’t be shy, come into the front rows. And then we can start >> So we are complete, yes Evwelcome to the panelists, Ministers and Presidents and CEOs from the industry, we’re very glad to have you here and I think You don’t have to move to far away from Berlin to see there are also white spots on the landscape of digital access here in Germany and many other European countries but we all know there are other regions in the world that are underserved and I’m very happy to discuss this today here on the panel We will start with the introduction and short introductory note from the President of BREKO and everyone on the panel will have the chance to give a two or three minute introductory statement before we enter into the discussion and I hope that we can also have a short Q & A with you from the audience because that’s what Internet Governance and the multi-stakeholder approach is very much about, not only us here on the panel discussing things but also discussing with everyone who wants to participate in this topic So with this I’m happy to leave the floor to Norbert Westfal from BREOK >> NORBERT WESTFAL: I’ll do it from this spot here, you’ve done a perfect introduction Everybody thinks Germany, wonderful rich country there should be Internet everywhere Unfortunately it’s not the case Which is why from BREKO the largest German broadband Association of fixed line carriers is actually working on that bringing the Internet into the white spots At the moment we’ve got 200 members in our Association out of around 300 network operators in Germany and that might already be a small change or difference to other countries, because we’re not just relying on 2, 3, or 4 large Telecom operators but have a majority of Telecom operators in the Region or in cities We’re now on our way to build build fiber optics everywhere in Germany. Again it’s the smaller companies who are actually the front runners and not the big ones and this is why we have actually acquired more and more companies building broadband here in Germany and you mentioned the white spots, yes. Unfortunately, we have got a very good infrastructure in the cities, but further away even in the medium sized cities we’ve got problems to get the right broadband Internet to the population And this is why we are actually encouraging our companies to do that, and for the white spots we’ve got subsidies as well in Germany, so that should help to get fixed line broadband access to these villages Now you might say why fixed line. Why don’t you do mobile services in the villages? Unfortunately, what we’ve seen here is that the few mobile

operators were actually again concentrating on the urban areas, and did not allow or don’t want to allow for the future service providing for others So again, very few companies who are trying to make the money in the cities and leave the villages alone. We’re fighting against that and I think we are in a good way to reach that so that in a couple of years’ time we will have actually the same broadband capabilities in the villages as today in the cities Now, I think there’s no question we need fast Internet and we see the opportunities in the digitization and, well, I hope that in a few years’ time when we come back to Berlin and come back to Germany we will have really a good Internet everywhere, and let’s hope for that >> Many thanks and we hope you all can benefit from that when you come back to Berlin May I hand it over to you Ursula to broaden our perspective and Germany to more of the African perspective >> URSULA OWUSU-EKUFUL: Thank you very much I think it is important that we all prioritize access to the Internet for all our peoples and traditionally the companies would only go where it is commercially viable for them so we have utilized our universal access funds to ensure Government partners with the private sector which contributes to this fund, I think it’s about 1% of the revenues, their profits, to this fund and all of them are obliged by law to make that contribution, and then the Government also facilitates the roll-out of infrastructure to underserved and unserved communities, by, one, acquiring the land, if need be and taking care of all the permitting processes to remove the hassle from the companies extending their services to those areas. And we put up shared infrastructure which they can now co-locate their services to. Even that has been too slow for us and so Government has decided that, yes, we’ll still continue with that track of cooperation and collaborating with the private sector to develop the infrastructure that we need to extend services but Government would also go ahead and secure the funding to actually roll out the infrastructure to areas where the rollout plans would be too slow for us to achieve universal access and in the process of getting that funding so we hope by the end of next year, that 20% of our population that’s currently unconnected would all have access to voice and data telephony in our country In addition to that as well, our Universal Service Fund is utilizing a technology mix and not just focusing on infrastructure but also providing the digital skills which will enable the people to actually use that infrastructure in place, and providing devices as well for them to have full benefit of it and they’re providing training for even illiterate people, those ones using their local languages using technology as well. They’ve developed a keyboard which can provide training in about 30 different languages. We’re also providing training to market women, to farmers, to artisans, in addition to students, as well We’re looking at utilizing satellite to extend connectivity to hard to reach areas, as well They’re working with the electricity company to utilize aerial fiber also, in addition to putting fiber in the ground Now, we want to encourage infrastructure sharing to drive down the cost of accessing the Internet, and we’re hoping that with a combination of all these factors, we’d be able to even develop specific pricing models for our telephony project to those in our smaller towns can access the Internet at a cheaper more affordable cost. We’re looking at a differential pricing model for the rural areas as against those in the urban centers For us it’s imperative that we put in place that infrastructure, provide the digital skills and training and the devices for people to utilize them because the Government is determined to formalize our economy through technology

and we’re moving rapidly to even the payment of all Government goods and services to be done electronically and everything to be done on a digital platform If we don’t provide access to every part of our country it means significant portions of our population will be left out of all of the services that are being rolled out across the country and we don’t think that’s a useful thing. In a nutshell that’s what we’re doing in Ghana and and varying forms are being done in other parts of the continent but we’re using our model and others have come to learn from our experiences in this West African subregion, in Mozambique and eastern and southern Africa as well so we see how we can connect the whole Continent together. We have a lot of submarine cables landing on our shores Getting it to the Interior of the Continent has become problematic We do need to look at the means of linking up our systems in transnational manner sought that so we can connect the Continent. We signed on to the free trade area which will be largest single market in the world. For that to be effective we do need to use technology and without the infrastructure in the ground, and our young people being trained with the digital skills and having access to that technology, we won’t be able to succeed so that’s a little bit of what we’re trying to do in Ghana >> MODERATOR: Thank you so much and I would like to hand over Ha Sim to tell us about potential gaps in terms of Internet access in Pakistan >> MAKHDOOM HASIM JAWAN BAKHT: Thank you I think just to look at the future outlook by the time 2025 as for the latest data of mobile trends, we will have having 1.6 billion users added to it and Pakistan will be among the top five countries which will be contributing. In terms of our access, one of the things which we have seen and which an area of our focus has been that there are market efficiency gaps and there are also genuine gaps where the true access is also there so for that the Universal Service Fund has actually in Pakistan we’ve been able to take care of certain hard terrain areas and we continue to do so It’s very interesting because since I was preparing for this Conference and I come with the financial mind set since I’m the finance Minister, as looking at over the last years, the efficiencies which have been brought into the system by improving the access We are a highly populist country 210 million and forecasted to grow to 400 in the coming decade, slightly above that So the public service delivery has to match. We can’t add on brick and mortar We can’t continue to add more classrooms because the number of classrooms which are required, it’s an enormous task to do that so we’re all in different phases of the lifecycle of digitization and Internet Governance, and Pakistan has a unique opportunity to leapfrog and come into a better service delivery era and we’re able to do that if we go through with better access, and we have been able to do that and we’re continuing to do that There’s another aspect which I believe we need to attend and that is the skill component of it In addition to having access, it’s the usage of the Internet What we have seen in recent years is that we introduced citizens portal feedback so citizens were able to report back to the Government as to what has improved in terms of service delivery, what has not. And this has proved extremely beneficial because it has helped us streamline processes, take out bottle necks, resulting in ease of doing business, improving on certain procedural manner, and this was conducted by World Bank, a recent study, and this sort of an interaction, the Revision of the State and the citizen contract has actually helped us save enormous amounts of money, as well So I feel that the Government and the citizen — the convergence view is very much there to further improve on access and we will continue to do so. Thank you >> MODERATOR: Thank you very much. And let us move then to the very right side of our panel from my perspective,

may I ask you to give your introductory remarks? Thank you? >> Thank you. I talk in French I come from Chad [ Captioner does not have English translation ] >> MODERATOR: Thank you very much and may I ask the perspective from Argentina, please >> Okay I have some notes so I’m going to read them. Regarding infrastructure, this is a really hard task since most of the areas that are not yet connected are areas with really difficult access So but connecting them is not impossible We have new technologies and already certain ones and we have different ways of implementing them, maybe through Government, through private Government, Civil Society, technical organizations and joint projects between those actors also One example is technologies of these technologies are community networks which some of our members, I am managing LACTLD It’s an Association of CCLDs of Latin America and the Caribbean so our members are not really doing infrastructure or access They’re at the logical layer of the Internet but they’re kind of give back to their communities So this might be one way they help with community networks For example they’re helping develop them around their country Today we also have a double challenge since many of those who are not yet connected in general are communities that have preexisting economic exclusion, in addition to their digital exclusion This is a double challenge yes but a double opportunity, also In situations like this we cannot expect that simply by connecting them to the Internet they will become digital citizens, consultations and producers of content — consumers and producers of content You’d think once a town gets electricity, it will happen automatically and that will be not happen. We have to work on real digital inclusion that helps them take advantage of all the opportunities the Internet can bring to their communities and mainly for economic access and this goes far beyond communication Several CCLDs, they’re Top-Level Domains so many CCLDs are working towards digital inclusion. They’re doing both, they’re training people and also making these problems for their priorities Availability of content in the language or dialect of who we intend to include, and this is something that should be emphasized too While the area of our members as I’ve said is the logical layer of the Internet MCCLTs are working on IDN, international Domain Names so that registrants of Domain Names can no domains in their

own language with their own characters And finally affordability is another key point. We’re doing really well with equipment because you can buy really cheap devices but the thing is connection, how we can get cheaper connections. We have a great example that the Internet exchange point, they’re helping a lot. They’re making the Internet faster and cheaper for the ones that are connected to them M CCLDs are helping In Kosta Riikka, and Canada is building IXBs in remote areas not just in big cities Munich and Malaysia are hosting their IXPs, too. That’s it >> MODERATOR: Thank you very much I’d like to hand over to Paola to give you a perspective from Italy it >> PAOLA PISANO: Thank you very much It’s a pleasure for Italy to be here with you today to share with you a common challenge that also in Italy we are, as I have the opportunity to listen to all my colleagues and everybody are talking about more or less the same problem. So first of all, the connectivity. Also in Italy we have the problem of the broadband, the fiber, the rural part and try to convince the private to go in the part of the market that is not very available so what we can do together as a country I think that the moment is now the moment that we start to share how to approach this problematic maybe together, because in Italy, we have the problem of the creation of the connectivity We know a lot of list of different problematic, why our plan is not so fast For example, we have a problem of authorization, okay We have a problem of authentication. We never know when the private company, the organization, are putting the rollout the broadband in our country will do the work. So this is a problem for the Public Administration We have two different private operators inside our country, so again, this is a problem around the governance of our broadband Then we have a problem of technology, because we can bring broadband everywhere, so we need to think about 5G technology, for example, and create more tech technological infrastructure and it is one part so I think what we can do together now is try to share the solution and the problematic that a country has to face for the connectivity We have another problem, the digitalization of the service of the Public Administration, so we need to create a platform that — shared platform inside the Government in order to enable the digitalization The single ID of our citizens, so one citizen to have a single ID, has to have a single application to have the access to our services that has to be digitalized So but the citizen is only one, for example, and as a lot of services, and so we need to integrate between the services of the Public Administration and the services of the private part, and so it’s also important to create this integration, as the experience of the citizen has to be end to end the same experience and this is another challenge inside the Public Administration, and the higher challenge is the skill that we need to develop again, digital skill and skill for digital that is also very important So how to think our process inside the public, how to Engineer our solution

and how to reach the citizen in the same way that the private system reach them, and then the digital inclusion, so we have a project for the digital inclusion, the name of our project is digital Republic, where we put together the private sector and the public sector to create a project in all the parts of our country where we have a very strong digital divide, and we have a strong digital divide in the rural part, in the mountain part, so for this reason we have to keep together all the effort and to go to the connectivity, digitalization with a single ID and single application for all our services, and decrease the digital divide that we have in our country, put together the public sector and the private sector, and that’s it >> MODERATOR: Thank you so much. Would you hand over the microphone to the last but not least of our panelists here today? >> MONGI MARZOUNG: Good afternoon, everyone I’m happy to discuss with you this highly important topic regarding Internet access and inclusion Currently I’m working with Orange group on Internet — sorry, in Orange group on Internet and sustainable energy governance and I’m from Africa and from Tunisia I serve as Tunisia ICT Minister several years ago and energy Minister which partially explain the subject of my work today in Orange Orange has more than 20 mobile networks in Africa and enhanced connectivity is one pillar of Orange group strategy plan for 5 years As highlighted by many speeches, Internet is becoming a human right and should be affordable and safe In my brief speech I want to address two points First, where we are today regarding access and inclusion, facts and figures Is connectivity the main issue to access to affordable and safe Internet? The second point: What policies are recommended to achieve access and inclusion goals which are tightly linked to United Nations Sustainable Development Goals As you know, today around one-half of people are connected to Internet, but by end of 2018, around 800 million of people are living in area without Internet coverage, so around 3 billion of connected people are in coverage area so connectivity is not the main issue of access to Internet 51% of African people are connected through mobile Internet and in Tunisia it’s around 60%, and as you know, yes, energy is also a barrier to connection to extend Internet, but as you know, around 89% in the world are connected to electricity, so far higher than Internet connectivity. Sorry So the digital divide is far from being a connectivity issue The IGF community has identified five main dimensions and policy options for increasing connectivity The first one is deploying infrastructure. I had not to expand The second one, increasing usability application service and Administration service also The third one, enabling users through human rights inclusiveness, user

literacy, digital citizenship and so Fourth, ensuring affordability And fifth, creating an end point. I think this is the main policy recommendation in order to increase connectivity and to know affordable access to more people around the world. By the end of my speech, as you know, currently digital attacks is discussed at very world High Level policy organization and countries and for my opinion, it should be an opportunity to bring in particular financial solution to Internet access and inclusion Thank you very much >> MODERATOR: Thank you very much [ Applause ] I’m very sorry we have limited time but I would move into a discussion. Let’s move away from Europe. There are problems in Europe as well in terms of broadband infrastructure and all that but we have regions in the world where we do not have any infrastructure at all. We don’t have broadband and we don’t have mobility connections And something that is seen as a solution from a number of Associations is community networks, where people from some regions are working together They organize for example satellite access and then they can’t get connected to the Internet and that’s the very fundamental condition for solving other problems that everyone on the panel raised here. Do you have experience with these community networks? Do you think it’s a sustainable solution as well? Or is that something like a bridge technology? Who would like to speak about this? You would? >> URSULA OWUSU-EKUFUL: Yes, thank you We do have a version of community networks We build community information centers in areas without access to the Internet, and they provide three or four services to the community We provide Internet access using satellite to those centers, school children who don’t have Internet access in their schools can go there for training within the community itself They can utilize that as an e-Services center to apply for goods and services from those centers because there are trained people there who can assist them to apply for whatever services they want The members of the communities themselves can come to those centers for training because we have people there who can also assist them to use the Internet and the devices that we may not be able to put a device in every home, every school but if we find one central location that is properly fitted with the right devices, and with Internet access, we find that it even serves as an area for the community to congregate and that is one quick way that we have found to increase access to the Internet for people who would otherwise not have had it And so we have community information centers and Regional information centers, larger ones, which were even converted into quasi technology parks that can also help small startups also Hoan their skills there and utilize those centers We found them very useful and so we’re replicating them around the country. We’re even thinking of linking them up with our Post Offices as well so that where there are postal offices we can equip them with Internet access and provide a space for the community to also access services using those centers and it’s an easy way we find to extend connectivity to areas where they would otherwise not have had it and that’s a collaboration between the Ministry of Communications and the universal service entrepreneur. That’s one of the things we’re doing to quickly increase our footprint in hard to reach areas as well. It’s useful and the use of satellite has also helped us immensely because we have our own VSAT that we use to extend services It’s not just the community information centers but we find even Government institutions, schools, hospitals, in remote communities tend to rely on that VSAT backbone to get some limited Internet access and for those community information centers, the Internet services are free of charge so cost will not be a limiting factor to accessing the Internet and we find that’s a useful way of extending the

Government’s footprint Is it sustainable? We think so. We think it’s a worthwhile investment so the Ministry seeks partnerships from interested companies to continue to support us and if that is not forthcoming, the State itself will put its funding to that and utilize a Universal Service Fund as well so that’s a model we thought we could share with the audience >> MODERATOR: Thank you very much, so that’s really a part of your infrastructure. Are there other views or experiences? Yes, please >> For example in Latin America, there are many experiences I can tell you about for example in Argentina there’s a Civil Society organization called Altermunde and they help different communities to have their own networks and they help them in a way those networks are sustainable, because those community pays for the connection and they train them to keep them working, so it’s once the network is set, they won’t be needing anyone, no money from no one, no technical assistance to maintain it so it’s really good work Also they are working their own equipment They developed their own rotors and they are giving them away for them to connect Also in Honduras as I was telling you before, the locals CCLD is helping communities in the same way so the idea is they will be helpful if they are sustainable. If they aren’t, they won’t. They have to be sustainable. If not, it’s just a give-away for a couple months and they will be gone >> MODERATOR: Thank you Could you pass the microphone? >> Thank you. To add in fact for me the responsibility of the Government, in fact to low spectrum usage in remote area, to allow common network for all people to share infrastructure There are also responsibility that can be provided by communities for example local service, local usage We can also use universal fund instruments. In many countries you know there are more than 60 Universal Service Fund but not use it to contribute to universal service and affordable access to Internet >> MODERATOR: Thank you so much. In the remaining minutes obviously that we only have, I’m happy to open the floor to questions from the audience. Is there someone who has experiences with community networks? Maybe also with obstacles when you try to set up community networks? Or maybe only with your personal perspective on what we discuss here on the panel? >> Good day , I’m the Deputy Minister of Communications and digital technologies from South Africa I think there are similarities and codes of good practice between South Africa and Ghana, especially in expanding on access to Internet, especially in rural areas, using collaboration and partnership with telcos and ensuring that in our case, we do schools and hospitals and clinics for free wi-fi Initially it was 10 megabytes Now we go in 200 and it’s free so that those in that community are able to, so I think we’re learning from your service on the technology parks and I think it’s something that we can expand But the second thing which I think is a take-away for us as South Africa, it’s the differentiated pricing between rural and urban It’s something that we can take home and look at whether we can be able to deal with that. But where we are in South Africa, through our Ministry, we are now at the level we are ready to engage on the finalization of the release of spectrum as an attempt to expand on Internet connectivity and other related things But I thought one of the things that we should also leave the IGF with, especially as stakeholders, is that we have the SDGs

There was this 0 7 commitment by developed countries to assist developing countries We really have to look at it and ensure that that gross National income of companies really gets given to developing countries, for us to expand on Internet access in rural areas The other issues that we have, Africa has lots of young people, and women are in majority, and we have structures in the UN and the AU IGF and other structures, please reach out to young people. Let them be part of this Forum^ You know there’s a notion that says nothing about us without us, so let’s involve as far as possible youth and women You can see here we are an endangered species but you’re doing so well [ Laughter ] [ Applause ] >> MODERATOR: Thank you very much. And let me take that as the closing remarks, please Again, I’m sorry for the limited time that we only have. I would really like to thank everyone on the panel here or giving us insights about infrastructure and access from your Region, from your country’s perspective I hope we could kick off a little bit a fruitful discussion that you can follow up in the coffee breaks when you’re networking, when you speak to people. Thank you very much for joining this panel and have a very successful and fruitful IGF. Thank you [ Applause ] [ End of session ]

>> MODERATOR: Dear ladies and gentlemen, thank you very

much for waiting in this room and waiting on the remote hubs

We’re waiting for the Minister to come back I just want to apologize for the inconvenience of time this morning. I deeply apologize for that. We’ll try to do very much better tomorrow The only thing is, we have a big farmer strike tomorrow in Berlin starting at 8:00 a.m. till 8:00 p.m. in the evening with tractors so we’ll try to do our best to fix everything for tomorrow but there’s an analog world outside so let’s see. So thank you very much. We’ll start in a couple of minutes >> Very warm welcome to dig deeper

and contrast the contract of the Web by Sir Tim Berners-Lee in a

few minutes but I’m happy to hand over the stage back to our Federal Minister for Economic Affairs and Energy Peter Altmaier. Very warm welcome on stage [ Applause ] >> PETER ALTMAIER: Welcome back, everybody. Ladies and gentlemen, Excellencies and dear friends and especially Tim Berners-Lee. Thank you so much for coming. Thank you so much for presenting your ideas about the new contract, and thank you especially for inventing the Internet I had the honor and the pleasure — [ Applause ] I have the honor and the pleasure to meet yesterday night with Vint Cerf, one of the other fathers of the Web, and I’m deeply impressed by what you guys have imagined so many decades ago And it was, to be Frank, a technical revolution, but it is much more than that I believe it is perhaps the most important global innovation in the history of mankind. We all thought the invention of the wheel would be that historic invention, but as we realized when Latin and Central and South America was conquered by the Spanish 500 years ago, and they realized it was possible to live in an advanced civilization even without the wheel, and to have culture and development and a decent standard of living, but my personal conviction is profoundly that in a few years, we will realize it’s no longer possible living in an advanced civilization without access and use of the Internet And this Internet when it was invented, when it was rolled out, when it started to develop and to spread, it was a little bit like the big bang at the beginning of everything You could not, as a normal person, you could not imagine what it would mean after 10, 20, 30 years, and like the big bang, where everybody after 2 seconds would have said, if there would have been anybody already, would have said, my God, is it beautiful Nobody had any idea that this big bang would lead to planets, to moons, to people, to flowers, and to everything And today we have a glimpse of all the potential of the Internet, and we have not seen yet the full po then shall of it and it means it is extremely important for all of us to protect it,

to protect it against everybody trying to control, to destroy, to manipulate it. That is our task and we have to live up to the expectations of millions and billions of people desperately wanting access to Internet When I was a young politician, the social media were emerging and spreading like Twitter and Facebook and I published an Article where I said for the first time as a politician in Germany I’m totally convinced the access to the Internet in the future will be as important as access to clean water and food in my eyes it is not a legal but a fundamental human right for everybody around the planet and I still believe this is the case and today we know that the Berlin wall has come down The Cold War has been ended but other things in the world still exist and there are still people trying to build new walls also in the virtual world of the Internet And that is something that we have to fight, that we have to prevent, and therefore Tim Berners-Lee it is so important to have you as somebody enjoying this enormous reputation and recognition worldwide Together with many, many others, campaigning and working towards a new Contract Please explain us your ideas and your thoughts and be sure that we will do whatever we can to support you and to help you in this regard Thank you so much. The floor is yours [ Applause ] >> MODERATOR: Thank you, Minister. Almost, almost the floor is yours Let me just add a couple of sentences Sir Tim Berners-Lee is a scientist and academic and as you just mentioned he transformed our lives in almost every aspect and according to thyme magazine he’s of the 100 most important people of 220th century, may I add also of the 21st century so having invented the Web in 1989 and that comes back to the year when the wall fell down as you mentioned Minister in the working while working, he’s dedicating to enhancing and protecting the Web’s future. The Founding Director of the World Wide Web Foundation which seeks to be sure the Web serves Mu Hanty by establishing it as a public good and basic right. Before I welcome him on stage may I invite you to turn your heads to the screen May I now kindly invite you to the stage, Sir Tim Berners-Lee,

to mark the launch of the Contract for the Web [ Applause ] >> TIM BERNERS-LEE: Thank you. Thank you for that introduction Thank you Minister Altmaier for your words this morning, now as well as also your wise words this morning so it’s a pleasure to be here with you all back in Berlin. I’m going to talk to you a bit about the future of the Web and how I need your help to help safeguard it Yes, 30 years ago this month, the wall that divided this city, divided this country, began to fall The world had been designed to keep Germans apart and split families, partners, friends, and colleagues, but it wasn’t just a physical barrier to separate people It was designed to keep ideas from spreading. So when the Berlin wall came down, not only did the bricks fall, so also did the barriers to human connection and collaboration in this country and on this Continent That same year in 1989, I began designing the fundamentals of the World Wide Web At that time, the plan was for that space to be an open permissionless one where ideas could be exchanged I wanted the Web to be a tool to bring people together If for example someone in one part of the world had one-half of the solution to a problem in their Head and someone else in a completely different part of the world had the other half of that solution to the problem in their head, then how could we connect them? How could they find each other and solve the problem? If we could connect them, so many great things could then happen When the Web first started, it was the interpret Web, 1989, Internet, 1969, so — so 20 years earlier, the Internet had been designed, and it had been designed as a space without the concept of countries. On the Internet, countries weren’t a thing Initially in fact it was hard to know which country a web site was in and it was hard for a web site to know which country its users were in, so it was therefore a common assumption that as the Web grew, it would become a very positive, collaborative space, and naturally it would then break down the borders between nations and cultures Today, 30 years later, it’s clear that the Web has opened up our world to knowledge, creativity, and connections on a scale that I could never have imagined It’s unlocked incredible scientist advances It’s given a home to the world’s largest crowdsourced encyclopedia It’s created indeed new international communities which are not based on which country or neighborhood you grew up and it’s empowered companies whose voices had been suppressed, marginalized or ignored. In the past, sharing ideas was hard Civil Rights campaigners in some parts of the world would hand-type a small number of pamphlets to advance their cause and pass them on to other people, other activists who would in turn type them out and so through their labor, their ideas would spread physically across citizen countries Now the Web has given people new powerful tools to make their voice heard and to challenge injustice, typewriters have been replaced with blogs, social media and online messaging. The Web powers social movements, political causes and ground breaking journalism from the me-too movement to the Panama papers and political uprisings across the world But never before has the Web’s power for good to be under more threat. Just as in the offline world we’re seeing walls go up on the Web The starkest of all is distinction between those who have access on to the Web and those who don’t. We only just passed the 50/50 threshold when

half of the world’s population is now online Of those who are online, also many do not really have a meaningful connection, one that allows them to download at fast speeds, connect consistently to the Internet and use a device, whatever device they want to use for the task at hand. And then of course there’s the 46% of people in the world still unable to access the Web at all. We need to get them online as quickly as possible There’s a deep digital divide threatens to be one of the greatest sources of inequality in our world. We have to close it fast Just as more people come online, there are some in power who want to stop people connecting with each other and want to divide humanity. When Governments successfully shut down access to the Web, they violate people’s fundamental rights to communicate, organize, and debate When a technology company fails to halt the spread of misinformation on its platform or its algorithms, push us toward hateful content, then the world becomes more polarized, more dysfunctional And this also undermines our trust in information, sews division and damages Democracy. When Web users take part in activities that scam or abuse each other they make the Web a more divided and threatening place The Web is at a tipping point If it is to be a force for the good, we must act now If we fail to tackle the threats that we face, we risk a digital dystopia We cannot leave the next generation a Web and a world that is darker than the one we have today. The challenges that we’re facing on the Web today are familiar to many of us here For example, in the United States, more than 1/3 of children between 12 and 17 have been bullied online We haven’t found a way to close the glaring gender gap online which is so much more acute in the Global South. The reality is that women globally are still 30% less likely to be online than men And at least 45 democracies there is evidence of politicians and political parties amassing fake followers or spreading manipulated media to win support And back to the U.S., the majority of people are concerned about the way their data is being manipulated by companies and by Governments. For all these challenges, we know that the Web has the power to drive problem-solving, collaboration, and scientific breakthroughs that we need to solve the world’s biggest problems Climate change, the breakdown of Democracy, and the deepening inequality, economic inequality There are two short stories I’ll share with you that sum this up for me The first is about an ex colleague of mine from Cern who found me a few years later when I was developing the Web. He took me out for a burger. After he diagnosed his son’s severe health condition using the Web Doctors misdiagnosed his son The drugs they had described weren’t working, desperate to help his son the man researched online and came across a web site that explained the Distinguished Delegates the doctors don’t diagnose, hypoglycemia so he went out and bought a glucose measuring device. He confirmed his son’s condition within hours and put him on a low sugar diet and the symptoms were gone in a few days. Happy story The second story isn’t as happy. In 1998 Dr. Andrew Wakefield published now notorious research suggesting there was a possible link between the measles, mumps and rubella vaccine and autism Medical science has since proven that’s completely wrong, and yet the Web served as a playground for misinformation spreading the thoughts of Dr. Wakefield’s research Many parents became terrified of vaccinating their children and the vaccination rates dropped leaving thousands unprotected The World Health Organization has found that as a result, measles rates in Europe have hit an all

time high An Article published last year shows that not only misinformation about Dr Wakefield’s research, it is on the Web but it’s been promoted by networks that masquerade as real people. The extent to which a small number of groups were able to exploit social media and promote misinformation about vaccinations should shock us all These stories show the two sides of the way the Web can be used or abused And they foreshadow the possible future Webs. One where information is shared for the benefit of humanity. The other where research is manipulated by a few bad actors to mislead people online, to take actions that are dangerous and damaging That’s why I set up the World Wide Web Foundation I launched it here at the IGF 10 years ago. Happy birthday, Web Foundation, because I believed that the world needed an organization dedicated to fighting for a Web that is safe and empowering for everyone I used to believe that more access to the Web should be our goal. Now I realize the challenge is so much bigger That’s why today, we’re launching the Contract for the Web First-ever global Plan of Action to protect and build the Web we want A year ago, at the Web Summit in Lisbon I called for Governments, companies and citizens across the world to work together to build a better Web We launched 9 founding principles as the basis of this Contract for the Web Since then, experts discussing and debating in Working Groups have turned these principles into a plan that lays out a vision for the Web we want and provides a road map for those policies and actions we need to get there. Today marks a milestone as we publish the first version of this Contract for the Web. The contract sets out new standards to make sure everyone can connect to the Internet all of the time, to ensure that data is protected, to reduce online hate by strengthening community building online It takes steps to prevent deliberate malicious misuse of the Web such as state sponsored hacking and attacks, criminal behavior and online harassment The contract identifies ways to improve the design of systems to eradicate perverse incentives, for example revenue models that commercially reward click bait and the viral spread of misinformation. It suggests actions to tackle the unintended negative consequences of design, and how to create new norms to improve an online discourse that has become polarized and divisive Created by experts and citizens from across the world, the Contract for the Web is a plan to make sure that the online world truly serves humanity. The level of support we’ve had since I called for it has been wonderful. We built a Coalition of some of the biggest thinkers and influencers and influential organizations in the world Huge thank you to everyone who’s been involved I failedI am thrilled to announce as we launch the contract more than 160 organizations have endorsed it By the end of today I suspect there will be more. It includes Civil Society organizations from Africa, Asia, Europe and the Americas, large and small companies, leaders and experts from around the world I also am very glad to say that the number of governments are committed to continued engagement of the process, including the German Government and especially thank again Minister Altmaier for his leadership and for being here when we launch the Contract for the Web The contract also critically calls for people everywhere to join the fight for the Web Because the best way to challenge the priorities and actions of those in power is to speak up from every corner of the world and demand the Web we want. My goal for the Web originally was to design a space that fostered collaboration and broke down the barriers between the existing systems, and between all people. I wasn’t

just trying to build a system to connect information but a whole new world where different systems and perspectives could co-exist and be interlinked. That vision is critical to getting the Web back on track as a force for good The Web’s challenges as complex — are complex and can’t be solved by any one party We need to rethink laws, regulations and technology design, and human behavior That means everyone, Governments, companies, Civil Society, and citizens, must cooperate in this fight for the future 30 years ago, the course of history changed when the barrier that divided the city was pulled to the ground In another 30 years, we will be judged by what we do today I want to underline that this is all about commitment and accountability. The Contract for the Web provides everyone, individuals and organizations, with concrete actions that they can and must take to build a Web that works for all humanity If you work in Governmental policy, use the contract as a road map to laws and regulations you develop Be a leader in building a Web that upholds citizens’ rights and allows their creativity to flourish. For those of you who are developers, I want you to build platforms for Democracy and civil debate, build systems that are accountable and hold people accountable Think about creating revenue models not based on data collection, and make sure the goals of the contract are embedded in the systems that you build. Companies, show that you’re committed to building technology that will support the best in humanity, not the worst Put safety and privacy of your users first Assess the impact of your tech on human rights and on society Employ a diverse work force that can design products that work for everyone, not just the few Live up to the commitments you’ve made today And if anyone uses the Web, be thoughtful and positive about what you post, share, and like Most importantly, back the Contract for the Web Galvanize others to come and join us, and commit to taking action for a better Web We all have a part to play And we have to act now. If we dare to create the Web that we want Now, I’m going to Tweet, a single Tweet from may account which has the hashtag for this Conference so you can find it with the hashtag for the Conference, and then I would like you to reTweet it with — add your name, reTweet it, send the link to your friends and your parents and your children Write the URL on the back of your business cards Contract for the Web.org Contract for the Web, one word, org, and help us all come together to build the Web that we want. Thank you [ Applause ] >> MODERATOR: Thank you, thank you very much, Sir Tim. I hope we have a good algorithm in the back who is counting how many people will have signed until tomorrow. I thank you all for your great attention span this day. I wish you a wonderful connection moment outside at the social hubs, with this wonderful global community I hope to see you safe and healthy again tomorrow. And thank you very much for this invention spirit that you kept on going for the last 30 years and thank you for inspiring us Sir Tim at the end of this session Thank you all very much, and see you again. Thank you [ Applause ] [ End of session ] >> Algorithms for health management. We heard it this

morning that of

course we all see the huge opportunities we have, data

analytics, prevention, for example, of diabetes and so on

But, the big issue is that this data

needs to be analyzed correctly, and is very susceptible to bias

and prejudice and then it doesn’t work anymore and then we

will just transfer the prejudices we have from the

analog world into the digital world

And this is something we need to be very

aware of, and really work very hard that this is not happening,

again, by creating the awareness notice digital realm So, in short, I think it’s important for an industry player for what we all want to achieve and has the chance to access 60,000 employees, for example, and bring the digital information to them to ensure that we have the educational platforms and that we do, across the world, we all have the same standard in our production site so there’s no difference whether I produce in Germany, in the U.S. and Africa, in Vietnam, or in India And that we ensure that our employees are not worried, do not fear these transformations. That they feel safe and strong to also be created If we are aware of these tasks, I think, then, we have great opportunities, and we are very strong if the industries join and take a strong lead forming partnership with governments, with NGOs, with different organizations to move forward and see that we can shape the internet, we can set the frameworks and we are not defined by it. Thank you very much (applause) >> MODERATOR: So, ladies and gentlemen, we now come to our

next speaker and our next speaker is Ms

Su Kahumbu

Staphan

anau and she’s the CEO, the floor is yours and we’re glad to hear more about your country >> Thank you Dear federal minister, Peter Altermeir, excellencies, ministers of all stakeholders Good afternoon I feel very honored today to present this forum or innovation and my opportunity to share with you how my constituents use the internet, the big gaps My name, as mentioned, is Su Kahumbu Staphanau My company has been building — to offer small holder farmers a very verified and reliable agriculture center available 24/7 on their mobile phones Our platform is available to the farmers through a service called iCOW and covers all aspects of the farmer system Life stock, crops, soils, insects, disguises and even farm and family health We’re farmers building for farmers with farmers. Or ethos is six. We care about each individual and aspire to give them access to best practices across the multiple microvalue chains they support and we do this against the tied of big ag farmer pushing capitalist irresponsible practices like the sale of pesticides in Kenya that are banned in Europe We take our responsibility seriously, iCOW was built for low end basic feature phones accessible through a code. Farmers follow features which lead them to the content of their choice and this content then delivered to them as SMS in their preferred language. We love SMS. This is very shareable and it’s contributing to a great multiplier effect Our first build was for low end feature phone because these are the devices the majority of our target market own. The internet is not on the horizon for many Team iCOW and I are building this service to ensure that small holder farmers across Africa do not get left behind. To ensure there’s a level playing field for our future irrespective of device or technology and to ensure that we’re prepared to feed and nourish or growing populations on the continent that are set to double over the next 30 years Our USSD version of iCOW is currently used by tens of thousands of farmers in Kenya, thanks ania and Ethiopia and researchers have shown that within a year, farmers double their yield and profitability There’s no magic involved We simply help farmers optimize their — we also connect them to relevant experts on the ground and to a virtual farmer to farmer marketplace called iCOW Sokhov We found the top three investments made p by new farmers with revenues are feeds, improving and expanding farming activity and their homes In effect, it’s creating prosperity and wealth capitalizing from the ground up We’re also seeing increased purchases of Telco product and services, air time, smartphones and data We’re seeing a slow but sure uptake and increasingly enough, most farmers who do buy smartphones continue to use feature phones at the same time Each phone purpose or type is based. Current studies are underway to determine the effect of iCOW on nutrition as well as its current

and future contribution to national food. If The reason the internet is not on the horizon for many small holder farmers is largely due to the devices The feature phone is the preferred device in the farming communities because it’s affordable, it’s reliable, it’s robust and it can stay charged for days at a time Availability of electricity influences the types of devices farmers purchase Absence of electricity at home, charging a phone costs between U.S. cents ten to 20 sentences each time and requires a farmer to leave his or her farm or send the phone to a place before it can be charged Many charge their phones on market days when they’re off farm in market days The gap between feature phones and smartphones is significant In addition to being more expensive and having short battery charge intervals, other configurations of having smartphones include internet costs, as access, quality, robustness of phones and repair and maintenance costs The gaps, however, are slowly being filled with new operating systems and affordable hybrid smart feature phones These phones have all the benefits of feature phones and can access the p internet and they’re comparable in price to feature phones at 20 to $30 a piece They do, however, have their limitations but a great bridge across the digital crevi vass We’ve recently built a new app where farmers have access. We have a small but growing number using these from the following countries Nigeria, Zambia, Tanzania, Sudan, South Africa, Rwanda, Morcioa, Meritania, Uganda However, until the proliferation of these across Africa, many farmers will still use feature phones One of the barriers to rural communities is the cost and the bulk of this cost is SMS Over the years, we’ve learned that the model farmers are paying is not satisfactory and in fact, this model contributes to increasing the knowledge gap and the digital divide as not all farmers can afford to pay and those who can’t afford to pay are the most in need In 2018, my team and I committed to ensure that the iCOW platform is available to farmers for free We were lucky to have 1Telco to agree to this Safari Com in Kenya where 108,000 farmers currently access 3 million content-rich messages each month for free. In a country of millions of small holder farmers, though, this is not enough and on a continent of tens of millions of farmers, this is insignificant Our aim is for access across Africa The levers to social enterprise driven scalable USSD services are the mobile network operators, the Telcos of. Most on the African continent, are, however, commercial entities existing in cut throat competitive arena yet they are the highways for USSD compatible solutions. They are the only highways I family roomily believe the Telcos are an integral piece Without them, I fear we should fail in nourishing Africa. The process of this is unthinkable Today, almost 60 million children under the age of five in Africa are stunted. We’re the only continent where this number is increasing At home, in Kenya, it’s estimated that 10 million people suffer from malnutrition That’s a quarter of our population In 20, 2050, in 30 years, the population of Africa is projected to be 2.5 billion people, double what it is today Within that time, we could, if we continue agriculture the way we have today, be looking at an infinite number of cropping seasons. The things have to change Business cannot be as usual The first rung on the ladder toward internet inclusivity for millions of small holder farmers in Africa starts with enabling farmers to increase their wealth and I believe the door for transformation through millions is built on USSD solutions, built on the devices that they have in their hands And as such, I would like to end with four takeaways One, we must begin to think of USSD

services as a strategy toward event you’ll internet inclusivity and develop new policies and incentive to encourage the Telcos, the MNOs to participate with partners in developing this first rung Stable transformative solutions over USSD. We need to invest in developing partnerships and ecosystems to make this happen Two, we must continue to invest in rural electrification across Africa. Internet connectivity is impossible without electricity Three, we must invest in developing mobile phones and operating systems that are farmer appropriate. Phones that are duable, repairable, that add values to farmers and other stakeholders Maybe since base phones, microwebber stations. And four, finally, we must ensure Africa farmers have access to free, sustainable education 24/7 as soon as possible. It is our collective ethical responsibility to ensure we leave no one behind. We must act quickly and collectively, like there’s no tomorrow. Thank you for your attention (applause) >> And then the Telco has capacity, you

can do tradeoffs and so these are the things we’re looking to

do in Ghana where you can Mary connectivity and electricity

>> Thank you, panel. We appreciate your time today, and

I hope you found that useful

Remember, it’s about coverage and you can’t fight poverty

without electricity. You can’t deal with anything without it

So, let’s bear that in mind as we build

>> Okay. Thank you >> And just for your

information, there’s a live document that’s going to be

published online where all this conversation will continue generically and we look to have as the document before Friday So, this is going to be published on two sites and it will be tweeted so thank you, everyone. So, with that, that’s a wrap Apologies to the next session >> Anyone who is here? (applause) Please do stay for the next session. We’re going to be talking about the convention of the rights of the child and its relevance to the digital world bit late, I’m actually going to start absolutely on time and I’m

going to let my colleagues introduce themselves >> BOB: To start with, I’d just like to introduce myself, imbibe an kid Ron, I’m the leader and founder of an organization called frights and it’s been my opinion that it has not been on children’s rights and that we felt it would be transformative I know the committee, that we are very fortunate to have a member with us and we have They had been thinking about, what was it? What would be the value in undertaking? Now, I am very, very proud of the people on the panel for today. They are a very expert group, and they are going to take you through a number of things that we’re doing on the journey to creating a general comment on the Convention on the Rights of the Child and I’m going to start by asking Jutta to tell us what a general comment is, how it impacts on the Convention and why it’s such an important document >> Jutta, if you have a problem, just step up >> JUTTA CROLL: No, it should work. So, I prefer to sit here with my colleagues together Thank you, Beeban, for giving me the floor and for the kind introduction. I had a bit to rewrite what I wanted to say because we already had a session this morning in the high level internet governance exchange would be safety and the right of protection, and we got some additional input on that as well, discussing whose responsibility and whose liability it is also to keep children safe But, firstly, I would like to speak about why we are in need of a general comment right now Those of you who are familiar with the IANA Convention on the Rights of the Child will know that a week ago we celebrated the 50th anniversary Thirty years ago, the same year when the UN went public, the internet somehow went public That was the moment when Tim Berners remade it accessible for the public so the internet was made accessible to everybody But, nonetheless, nobody could imagine 30 years ago how fast, how quickly and how broadly children would take up on the internet and make use of it So, what has changed over the last 30 years? I would say the perception of children has changed. The perception of children as having agency, playing an active role in society and also being perceived as autonomous actors You just need to look at the Fright is for Future, and you will see that children are making use, are exercising their rights It’s not the time and the place to discuss here whether these developments are related and interconnected with each other But, still, I do think we need some more research in this regard What we can say now, and what makes most pressing that we need the general comment on children’s rights in the digital environment now is that the internet has a huge potential for the realization of children’s rightses Usually, clustered as rights to freedom to protection, and to participation or you could also say protection, provision, and participation In each of these areas, we have rights

where the impact of digitization is most obvious For example, Article XVII, access to information. It’s obvious that children have access to information now via the internet Or take Article XIII, freedom of expression. Of course, the internet is the means of exercising freedom of version nowadays. But, also, we have Article XVI, the right to privacy, and article XV, freedom of association Again, I’d like to refer to the fighters for future where we with can see that children exercise these rights In all these cases, digitization empowers students to access their rights. But, I would say, we can do Berlin. Not all children are in the occupation to do so and not all stakeholders are aware of the opportunities digitization offers to children So, that’s also a reason why we need a general comment now to make people aware of these opportunities And last, but not least, I would like to mention article XII, which is my personnel favorite in the UN Convention. That is, the right to be heard But, being heard only can be harnessed, the potential of this article can be harnessed if, when, what is heard is also be put into action So, we need to ensure that children’s voices are heard, and that their voices are taken into account when decisions are taking As article III, in all matters, that affects children And I do think there is no doubt about that the internet is something that affects children and most obviously many children We know from research that Sonia has done with several colleagues that one of the things used in the internet development world are under age 18 and it comes to one and two when we look at rest of the world So, nobody can deny that the internet affects children So, therefore I’d like to advocate that we use the general un comment to unearth the potential and the general comment will be a big step towards that goal. Thank you >> BEEBAN KIDRON: Thank you very much, Jutta. I think it’s worth saying that the journey of creating a general comment is a complex matter and that already, you see us when we’re about half of the way through the process So, we’ve already had a public consultation which over 200 organizations around the world and we’ve also had a worldwide consultation with children which you’re going to hear something about in a bit And we’ve had an expert group in London on, people from every possible corner of the earth coming to give their opinion But, as you will all know that the digital is a very cross-cutting issue and this is a very high level document so I’m going to actually call upon Sonia to both introduce herself and explain the process since she is leading the charge in the authoring of the general comment >> SONIA LIVINGSTONE: Okay Thank you, Beeban and colleagues. It is lovely to have a chance to explain this process and not so much to a child rights community, though, I know that many here are from the child rights world, but in the context of an internet governance forum where a number of us will know that over recent years we’ve been working together to try to bring questions of children’s rights to more visibility within the internet governance world So, my colleagues have kind of explained what we’re doing and I’m here speaking as an academic, as a researcher, and my project Global Kids Online has produced a lot of the evidence about how the internet is bringing both risks and opportunities into children’s lives across all continents and increasingly, all countries So, it’s, there are many challenges in trying to write a document. For those who don’t know, a general comment is 10,700 words, give or take about five, but not more than that It’s not very long for an academic It’s quite long, perhaps, in some policy terms But, we’re trying to pack a lot in because the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child already has 41 articles with detailing many important dimensions of children’s lives. And the digital environment touches all of those And their lies a challenge

And as Beeban Kidron just said, the digital is very cross-cutting and very fast-moving in its impact So, I think it’s really important to say that we already have lots of human rights as they apply to children that we are dealing with We’re not here in the inventing new digital rights. The question is, how do existing rights, fundamental rights, important human rights apply in the digital world and how do we apply those to children? And it will already be apparent to you that the world is a very diverse place and there are many parts of the world where access is the key issue and when we consult children, as Amanda will say, access is absolutely critical And then there are other parts of the world where access is already taken for granted but some of the cutting edge technologies are posing new and different kinds of challenges And what’s interesting in relation to both of those, access and the cutting edge developments is that often it’s discrimination and the right not to be discriminated against which kind of comes to the fore, and some, one issue that we’re thinking hard about is how to ensure that the right to not be discriminated against also includes not discriminated on the grounds of age So, the general comment is going to offer guidance, it will be a document coming from the Committee on Rights of the Child, so, we are, as you say, ghost writing in their name And it will offer guidance with implementation beginning with the four fundamental key principles on the Convention on the Rights of the Child which is, as I say, nondiscrimination. The question of the best interest of the child which interestingly in relation to the digital world really requires that we always keep in balance children’s right to protection and their right to civil rights and freedoms and we always think of them as rights holders and as agents but with specific vulnerabilities also The third fundamental principle, the right to survival and development, I think, is inspiring in a digital world in the sense that article 29 says the child has the right to their fullest development And we must ask ourselves in a digital world, what does that look like? And the fourth, which Mason and Amanda will talk about, is the right to be heard, which is not the right to be consulted but the right to have what you say acted upon, to be heard and acted upon And then, there are many other rightses rights as Jutta has already mentioned that we will be interpreting So, for example, article XV The right of privacy. In the digital world, this is translated into data protection regulation and that works and it doesn’t work and we need to kind of think through, how do we make that translation from a fundamental right to the practical tools that are available to states? You wave at me — Okay I think there are many challenges, and I’m sure the challenges for states are already apparent to you. Perhaps the biggest is the challenge of the commas. The challenge that the digital environment is underpin by the operation of enormous corporate infrastructure, which is often beyond the capacity of many states small and large, rich and poor, too, as it were, to bring to account It’s also a challenge to rely upon parents and caregivers and this might be the state’s kind of normal go-to hope that in relation to particular areas of children’s rights, the parents would play a role. And parents want to play a role in relation to the digital environment But, they feel profoundly disempowered in ways that they have not so disempowered in many other areas of their children’s lives I have to say, that writing a document for states, I think a challenge for child rights organizations is that sometimes the states themselves are the problem. In relation to children’s rights in the digital environment And states, too, around the world, can violate children’s rights or be overly restrictive or fail to support the rights of children and we hear especially when we hear from children in different parts of the world, we will hear that call both on companies and also on states And there are a number of contentious areas there around surveillance, partner children as political actors, around children’s rights to Secretary-General information and education about provision

for disabled children and whether we should ban mobile phones in schools There is a long, long list of issues in which states are both problem and solution So, perhaps just to end by saying that when we held the consultation, it was very heartening to receive many responses from around the world and perhaps from some of you in this room. We receive twice as many responses as we were expecting and they were full of quality ideas, suggestions, evidence, consultation with children, and overwhelming emphasis on the importance of balancing children’s rights, civil rights and freedoms with the importance of child protection And really being sure that we find a way of phrasing the general comment such that some rights of children are not prioritized at the expense of others What will happen next is that the committee on the rights of the child will review, revise, and release the draft for a further process of public consultation and I think my last point might be to say, we would really love those in the innovation community to get involved — Internet Governance community to get involved >> BEEBAN KIDRON: Thank you, Sonia You can see why we’re well informed. Now, our next speaker informed me this morning that he can only be considered a child for three more days, technically. But at moment, he is our spokes person on the right to be heard. I just want to say, and I hope he’s going to speak about this a little bit himself. But I first saw Mason and some of his friends at another event where they played a film about a podcast that they had invented and that they were creating and that they were putting out and it was the most moving and touching film It was the moist moving and touching, not performance , but sort of auth or authoritative statement about how they felt they were not being heard so I am very pleased that Mason has chosen to join us. The floor is yours >> MASON RIKARD: Good afternoon Thank you so much for having me here today. My name is Mason Rikard. I’m 17 years of old and I’m part of a youth organization called the gifted young organization. Now, we meet on a weekly basis, both myself and my peers and we talk about what it’s like to be a young person in modern society. Now, not only do we talk about the positives, we talk about the negatives, the successes, and the failures We don’t just want to talk about this on a specifically perspective, we try to delve deep into the tab boo topics which many young people p struggle to express in public With that, we really wanted to create a vast platform and reach many people and as a result, we created a podcast service called Thrive which I think is quite self-explanatory in the title what we want to achieve. Part of this project was to attend an expert consultation which in London, recently, which aimed to add a general comment to the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child And we spent the entire day surrounded by legal experts , and it was fantastic to see how passionate these people were to fighting for young lives and the protection of them online And it made us realize that just the event happening in itself, lots of different people, experts from across the globe coming into one building to talk about this, shows that we’re already winning this battle. Our voice has been heard And as a result, we have now taken the first step into improving the rights of the child And this all links back to the right to be heard, article XII Which is just so important and it really does reflect how young people who account for one-third of the population not only physically, but also online, one-third of the population And the fact that our voices are now being heard is fantastic As you mentioned, Beeban, I will be becoming 18 in eight days’ time and as a result, despite being very daunting

perspective, I will no longer be considered as a child and that made me reflect recently and think about my life as a young person and my childhood And it made me think, should 18 year-old Mason have the same rights in the digital environment as ten year-old Mason? Now, ten year-old Mason has just received his first iPad for Christmas. And with that, he’s about to discover the world of social media, of the internet, and of the digital environments But, the issue is, ten year-old Mason lacks the maturity to understand at this stage what the digital environment entails He doesn’t have the full education yet to understand what is right or what is wrong online. Not only this, but he doesn’t have the experience of making errors online and rectifying those mistakes So, as a result, coming back to the question, should 18 year-old Mason have the same rights as ten year-old Mason? No Because they are different and because by the time ten year-old Mason becomes 18 he will be able to make the decisions himself considering the morality of these without having to be sort of, having his rights per se purveyed by a major tech giant which is really important When we’re talking about this as young people representing one-third of the population in events like this, the IGF. I look around and I see so many adults. This entire event, most of the panelists have been adults, but what really gets me is that this is also about young people and young people need to be heard, they need to have this representation , which I think it’s fantastic that I’m here today But we need more. We need more young people This links back to what we need to do with regard to the social legislation. Whether that be the next general comment, that young people’s voices are heard Thank you (applause) >> BEEBAN KIDRON: I’m looking forward to the 21 year-old and the 25 year-old and beyond Mason Thank you so much, that was fantastic. Now, Mason was not the only young person we consulted. In fact, we consulted many more and I’m going to ask Amanda to come and talk about the children’s consultation that she staffed >> AMANDA THIRD: Thanks and good afternoon And it’s a terrible, terrible honor to have to follow a young person who speaks so competently without notes. I am going to use notes because I do want to stay faithful to what the children in the consultations told us You know, I guess in this field, in the lead-up to the development at this general comment, we have held, since 2014, a series of extensive consultations with children internationally, and in fact, in over 40 countries Is and predominantly, in the global south To better understand their experiences of the digital age and their hopes and aspirations for a future that’s mediated by the digital Building on these insights, between May and September 2019 this year, this general un comment team with funding from the 5Rights foundation in west everyone western Sidney University undertook with children to directing in the drafting of the general comment I’m very excited to report that over 600 children from 26 countries on six continents have participated in these consultations and their insights have been embedded nearly half of the first general comment So, I want to just briefly share some of the things the children have told us I will just gesture these things very lightly but please be aware that we are in the process of creating an in depth report which will be available in the first quarter of next year So, regardless of their level of access to technology, children are very, very enthusiastic about engaging in the digital environment. They’ve got very high hopes for the digital future and they point, for example, to the role that digital media can play in leveling the playing field in terms of education and opportunities for work They’re really excited about the potential for technology to be leveraged to tackle the very serious social, political, and environmental issues that our planet and their local communities face They see the digital as vital to enhancing their capacity for decision making

tendencies both now and in the future. Unfortunately, because we often emphasize this N I — because we often dismiss this, I want to emphasize that children say that the digital environment provides them with a really crucial opportunity to enjoy themselves, to have fun and play Children have told us they’re ready to play a role in making the internet the best it can possibly we and they want states and businesses to provide opportunities for ongoing dialogue about how to realize their rights in and through the digital environment But, there are very real obstacles that stand in the way of children maximizing the benefits and minimizing the risks of harm associated with being online And children are calling, indeed, they’re imploring adults to solve these challenges And they’re very clear that states and businesses in particular have key responsibility for overcoming these obstacles For many children around the world, as Sonia just did a moment ago, despite the massive growth in children’s uptake of digital technology internationally, particularly via mobile phones, access remains the outstanding challenge. Their access is limited by unreliable or inadequate infrastructure, by socioeconomic factors, by government legislation, for example, around censorship, by geography, by education, gender, and things like the rules that parents put in place Barriers to access are particularly acute for those children who, for example, live with disability, or who are street children, or who are in conflict with the law children also draw attention to the need to support their digital literacy and literacy of their parents to enable them to manage, for example, untrustworthy information or what’s being labeled fake news Children are hang angry, actually, that there are not simple ways of understanding who is collecting their data and how that data is being used They draw attention to a double standard at play. Namely, that adults tell children to do one thing on the internet and then do another thing themselves They’re calling for those adults, adults from heads of state and business leaders right down to teachers and parents to better role model appropriate technology use for children And they rally against adults’ negative portrayals of children’s digital practices They say the ways adults talk about their digital practices in fact stands in the way of children making the most of their time online and of course, we can’t forget that children are worried about a host of potential harms online In short, a quick snapshot of this consultation shows us that children have an awful lot to contribute to our debates and our decision making relating to the digital. Their contributions to the process of drafting the general comment remind us that we must listen ever more carefully and consistently to what children have to say After all, they are the ones who will take charge of the internet into the future If we want to realize the kind of internet that Sir Tim Berners Lee called for this morning, then we have to commit for envisioning that world for everyone in partnership with children. Thank you (applause) >> BEEBAN KIDRON: So, obviously, a general comment is a theoretical document. It sets out what should be done. But, there’s always this bit of a problem about how it should be done So, it is my great pleasure to invite Alpesh from IEEE to come and tell us a little bit about from theory to practice >> ALPESH SHAH: So, first off, I’d like to congratulate those visionaries that helped pull together 30 years ago the CRC You see, when you think about something that’s lasted that long, and has led to ongoing conversations of the type we’re having today, that’s not an easy thing to do. Actually, that requires great forethought but it also requires the ability to realize what you can and what you can’t do. What you understand and what you don’t And that’s where we are today when we think about technology and when we think about the implications of technology Both overarching, from a human rights perspective, and specifically from a children’s rights perspective And to me, the other duality element to CRC is not only in terms of what it’s helped us realize, but it’s also helped us understand that moving forward, there are a

number of gaps. A number of gaps that we don’t fully understand or appreciate. And this is important. This is probably the most fundamental important element of what the CRC has allowed us to understand and recognize And I share this as someone who works for an organization whose mission is to advance technology for humanity. I work for an organization, a global one, known as IEEE And like everyone else, we see the upside of the technology and technologies as they come Right? When you think about all the hype words you hear, IoT, blockchain, AI, all of a sudden, you start buying into it But, as a number of speakers have said both on this panel and others earlier today, we really need to understand, what is the problem we’re trying to solve and not just that, we need to understand the potential implications And it’s not just ease why I to do when all you hear is, blockchain will provide you the trust that you need. Don’t worry about it. Awill solve your problems. It will lift you up and change your economy. But how? How does this work? R when when he think about new technologies and bringing the practical nature from theory or as we call it from principles to practice, it’s quite important that you have representation from a number of different parties but more importantly, or I would say, as importantly, you need the right governance mechanism to allow for it. One that allows diverse viewpointses to be engaged. You heard Mason describe the importance of being involved and we fundamentally believe this is important And you’ll hear much over the next several days about the global south and I don’t think anybody would disagree with the increased for their representation as well So, what type of process would allow for this? Yeah, you’re talking quite large, many diverse viewpoints P. exactly who want, but, at the same time, how do you manage to get it done And then, beyond this, when we talk about these technologies, all the haves and have-nots, economically speaking, this is a power story When we talk about AI and ethics, when we talk about all of these things, it’s a story of power It’s not a story of technology So, from our perspective, and I should say, specifically, from my perspective, technology is good, technology can be bad. It’s malleable The piece that makes technology powerful powerful is the ideas. It’s the ideas that help the technology work. It’s what makes it useful You heard Mason’s story about the use of podcast but also the more important part to me of why it’s so great is he’s pulled the community together. That’s the advance element behind it Everybody is in podcast But, no one has given the forethought to what they’re doing to have these intellectual conversations but then start to discuss, how do we turn this into practicality What they’re doing is a great example of this I think there’s another element that’s important as well when you talk about applying principle to practice It’s very easy for us to judge companies I would share that as a formal small business owner One of the challenges I had was when new challenge companies came about, and how could I keep up with the cost of it? It’s not easy It is my estimation that probably 85 percent of the companies out there are quite interested in abiding and doing the right thing. It’s difficult to do when you’ve already started going down the path And for the new ones that are just starting to merge , your focus is around economic viability You latch on to the juggernauts So, how does this work? And what we think about here is, number one, let’s invite

organizations to be part of the design bros That includes small and midsized businesses as well There’s more to them than the large size If we use them as an example, Silicon Valley is a mechanism for large institutions Incentivizations payoff. It’s something to think about when we think about a lot of this When we think about, how do we bring folks along on our journey. Let’s help these organizations achieve the outcome that we want to see Let’s develop sandboxes from a policy perspective as well as a technology perspective that allow these companies to experiment, and so we can understand the implications If your immediate return is driven by shoaled value over the next quarter, you have little invent — shareholder value over the next quarter, you have little incentivization to do things in small stages. You’re better to say, we’ll get to it eventually That’s tough Offering the ability for these organizations to work immediately with both governments as well as children and young adults in this specific case offers an opportunity to take a very much of a design first process here By putting the practice right into the theoretical And I don’t know about you, but when I was in college and even in prior to that, I learn best through application. I didn’t learn, you know, in theory, if I showed up for class because everyone learns differently Everyone takes information in differently. We all see things differently. Yeah? And so the implication of putting something out there that a diverse group of individuals can’t understand, a diverse group of stakeholders can’t understand, sets it up for failure It sets it up to be too much of a challenge, and it results in greater litigation, greater waste, greater inability to realize the future that we want to see Finally, I’d add that none of this was probably shared this morning in terms of my talk and I’m terrible with going off script but I will say that standards, open source, both from a philosophical perspective as well as a framework perspective start to demonstrate mechanisms that can be utilized in multi-stakeholder platforms There are different things one can take advantage of to realize successes For example today, the baroness has a framework for children. P39 We’ve got a host of activities around ethics and AI including certification proof concepts because we realize that simply just telling folks about this stuff is going in one ear and out the other. They’re great paper weights but they don’t do much else So, I’d like to just end with the fact that number one I represent a fairly large and substantial technological community We’ve got over 430,000 members in over 127 countries and global reach in these areas Let us know how we can help support the success of both the CRC as well as another initiatives you have because we have a ton of folks that have really good understanding and appreciation about short-term and long term view but we’re only a piece of the puzzle And the last point I’d add here is that, it is incredibly, incredibly, incredibly important that from this point on, we include children and young adults not only in the design process, but they should have a direct voice in the development of the policies because if you leave it to the filtration system, a lot of things get lost when it finally comes time for it to go into law. Then you are only designing it for your needs, not theirs. So, it’s time for us as adults to make a decision If we can’t do the job, then let’s shit or get off the pot Thank you (applause) >> BEEBAN KIDRON: So, I am very much

hoping that you will have some questions but I have one last speaker who was not planned, but we are hugely privileged to have a member of the Convention on the Rights of the Child with us today And with that committee and with that committee’s commitment to — without that committee and without that committee’s commitment to this idea, we would not be doing the general comment and this work would not be undertaken so, please, would you welcome, Gerhart. P >> Thank you very much, Baroness. I’m very glad to be here this afternoon And after listening for, to the eloquent presentation from the potential general comment from the previous speakers , I would say, as it was said Five days ago, we have celebrated the 30th anniversary on the Convention on the Rights of the Child Of course, all of you knows about the Convention Yet, it is the largest Convention in the whole world in terms of the number of State Parties to this Convention. 198 states are party to this Convention. No other Convention in the whole world has this big number So, states are putting the rights of children as a priority to them. What have we done after 30 years. Yes, there are some achievements. Slow. But, there are They are not as rapid as the development of the digital world That’s what we want to see, at least within the next ten, 20 years So much talk about digital world and digital environment and the development Yet, there are many children who still have no access to internet There is a digital divide between developed and developing countries And our aim and goal in the committee is to emphasize the importance of access for all children to internet Because, there is much benefit for children when they have access on the internet in terms of knowledge, in terms of education, and many other aspects in this respect And the most important issue here is also the benefit yet the protection of children Because there are some drawbacks from using the internet, and we have seen it at the committee, when we have seen that children are being recruited by terrorist groups, extremist groups, and recruited for sexual exploitation Bullying on the internet and so on and so forth How to protect children while they are using the internet. It is the responsibility of all the stakeholders, but, above all, the responsibility of states And this has to be underlined because states are the party to the Convention They have the priority responsibility in order to establish laws and regulations And laws and regulations for everybody. For the companies For the internet providers For parents, for schools For healthcare providers and so on and so forth The first step is to put guidelines and guidance to states of how to use the general comment and how to develop an environment that is beneficial for the children Safety and liability. Safety for children Liability of all stakeholders that are involved in providing the internet, involved as, who is violating the privacy of children? Everybody. Parents. States Providers. The internet

And schools. Health services Even, sometimes, children themselves are violating the privacy because they don’t know how to protect themselves And this is a very important issue, that the general comment is it also providing for And I think I may stop here, and listen to your questions. Thank you (applause) >> BEEBAN KIDRON: So, I do hope that you do have questions This is a fantastic panel and I hope that you understand the seriousness of the thinking that is going into this general comment and the breadth of who has been consulted So, does anyone have a question? And I haven’t worked out — excellent. I’ll come to you Can I — Mason, you can hear him? Thank you >> Yeah, hi, my name is Amitab I work on digital parenting in India and I have an organization called Media Matters. Actually, my question is for the panelist who has run away with the mic >> BEEBAN KIDRON: Oh, he’s coming back, don’t worry >> So, yeah, it’s to Mason and everybody else as we saw from the points that you made. Where do you see the role of the parents? It was very clearly said that they feel very disempowered and in India, because of the digital divide, it is even disempowerment of a very high state. So, what do you think? What does ten year-old Mason think and what does 18 year-old Mason think? >> BEEBAN KIDRON: Actually, I’m going to ask this lady to give questions, too, and then everybody can answer >> Thank you very much, indeed, my name is Aria Clapenburg and I’m actually the representative of the European Parent Association My question goes in the same direction How can we actually empower the parents to be the best parents possible and to help their children found their way through the internet because what we see very non our surveys is that, well, well, the children know better than we do and we find out that’s not the case, actually. So, I think we need to educate the parents in this aspect. That will not be the case for the generation after us, I guess They will have been brought up that way and they will probably have more knowledge but for the time being, I think this generation still needs to be educated in order to take on this role And the other question that I was going to ask is, how do you see how the states can actually help the parents? This aspect? Because we are doing this from parents organization sites so, this is voluntary work We are trying to provide our parents with the necessary tools and instruments they need but I think that the states could do a lot more in this aspect >> BEEBAN KIDRON: Fantastic I’m going to ask Mason to answer, Sonia to answer, and Amanda, also, in that order >> MASON RIKARD: Thank you for those questions. I guess, with regards to parents, as a young person, I’m always around my parents. I’ve not left home yet. And I think on reflection, there’s a lot to do with this stereo type with regards to the internet, the fact that your parents are older, so it seems that they have a more traditional view or that they may not understand this up and coming rapidly moving source of technology And it’s all around us And as a result, there’s a lot of confusion, I personally believe, around what the parents’ role should be But, just in general, I think one of the main improvements, an easy and simple improvement between parents and children is communication between the two Making sure that one understands what the other is doing. They understand what they’re giving them. For example, as I use my knowledge of the iPad Christmas present, understanding what that actually entails and what the child can use from that sort of technology And yeah. I think communication is the big one, for me. Yeah >> BEEBAN KIDRON: Sonia? >> SONIA LIVINGSTONE: Yeah, I absolutely agree. Communication is the key I’m going to disagree that this is a generational problem and that it’s going to go away. I actually think that as long as technology is with us, which is all we can foresee, there will be the next challenge and the next challenge and today’s children will be tomorrow’s parents and they will have new challenges upcoming So, yes, communication is

crucial, and yes, we want to do all we can to mobilize parents and inform them and make them feel competent and so forth But, they are facing an enormous task and there has to be responsibility of on both States and businesses to ease that task, both in they having and making sure that things are interpretable, that the digital world is, as it were, legible, manageable, but, also, in putting real choices before parents so that, because, at the moment, they, like their children, are faced with the choice of either going online and take your risk and face it, or being excluded And this binary, this incredibly stark choice is very difficult for parents as well as for children. And we have to have, we have to evolve a more graduated nuanced world in which you can choose to be part of some parts of the internet and not parts of others or you can be part on some terms, let’s say, to participate with your friends, without losing control over all your data in perpetuity So, we’re living in a world of stark choices at the moment, and it makes everyone feel disempowered and that’s, I think, what states and businesses have to work together to change >> BEEBAN KIDRON: I’m going to ask Amanda and then Jutta to answer this question but anybody who has the next question tell me, and brilliant, Amanda >> AMANDA THIRD: So, well, not a lot to add after what my colleague already said except to say that I think that States and businesses can think much more creatively about the way that they provide for parents And just to give you a quick example, sort of pulling off Mason’s comment around communication, some work that my colleagues and I around western Sidney University have done where we put parents and young people in front of a piece of technology and they’ve worked together for scenarios that the young people have designed for parents have provided opportunity for the kinds of very, well, b first of all, for some amount of skills transfer between young people and parents and I think many parents feel their skills are not up to scratch and we need to develop more creative ways for developing those skills but more importantly, those kind of strategies have opened up ways for young people and parents to have conversations about what it means to live in the difficult wouldn’t. A conversation where they with recognize shared experiences Parents have walked away saying, oh, I didn’t realize that I do the same thing young people do online. We just do them in different places So, I think creating opportunities to breakdown these conversations and to give young people and adults of all kinds and I don’t just actually mean parents but politicians, business leaders, whoever it might be to actually create some common ground is really critical but that requires thinking very creatively about how we make that happen >> BEEBAN KIDRON: Jutta? >> JUTTA CROLL: Thank you. I just wanted to remind you to bear in mind that not all families are the same, not all parents are the same and we also need to consider families living in low socioeconomic status, not well educated, or so they might be willing to communicate with their children about the digital world They might just not be in the position to do so. They can’t afford their daily life so they might not have the time to talk to their children and so when we are talking about what is the role of parents, like Sonia said before, they have a lot of tasks. It’s a huge burden. And we cannot expect that all families live in that ideal world where they can communicate any situation to their children So, also, bear in mind the disadvantaged children >> BEEBAN KIDRON: Can I just also put one other thought in your minds about parent situations? We are in a situation where sometimes the platform or service or thing that the child is using knows more about the child than the parents and this is something we have to think about, about where the knowledge lies They might know where they are or how long they sleep for or what their burgeoning sexuality is from some of the data things going on so we have to put the platform in this conversation about parents and children. You can’t just leave parents and children alone in that conversation Which is something, I think, that gets missed. There was a gentleman over there who has a question >> Yeah, I guess this is potentially a controversial question further down the line How would you consider the definition of a child as it is right now? It’s quite arbitrary. I believe you might just be, Mason, specifically, you might just be behind the cutoff to vote in the next election. Is that the case? >> I made it

>> You made it Congratulations So, ages, quite obviously, one of the easier metrics to decide upon and I feel like maybe it’s a bit old-fashioned to consider 18 as the threshold. Should you be classifying children as subclassifications? A young child? An adolescent? Is that something that’s relevant? And is age the only measure What Jutta just brought up about socioeconomic status. Mason, I’m assuming you’re from a fairly well educated private school. Judging by your build, it’s either cricket or tennis Could be wrong >> Completely wrong >> Okay. Good. Because that’s what I wanted to hear. Because at a lot of these events that I’ve been to, it’s, you know, even when they’re representing children, it’s privileged children You know, it’s children who I feel just don’t really know what it’s like to be a poor kid growing up. So How should we classify children? >> BEEBAN KIDRON: So, I think it’s a really interesting question Everyone is burning to answer it but can I say from a 5Rights perspective, we do not work with private schools. We work with all public schools and the people who represent us are hugely mixed in every which way >> Yeah, I just do want to clarify because I think, you know, you’re making a really valid point. It’s a very important question And as we think, you know, about the numbers of children coming online in the global south, for example You know, we really need to center those children’s experiences So, I just wanted to underscore that in relation to the development of the general comment, we have reached out to 26 countries in, you know, the majority of which, I think, 95 percent of which, are in the so-called global south And we’ve sought to work with child-facing organizations who work with very vulnerable children in some circumstances, to really try and understand their experiences And what’s more is that we haven’t been satisfied in this consultation simply to do a kind of tick the box consultation You know, hey, kids, do a survey. But we’ve spent time Three to five hour long workshops with children where we use creative participatory methods to really explore their situation in a much more in depth way to explore the architecture of very informed children to inform this particular document And I think what’s very interesting coming out of that is that there are some instances in which those children’s experiences are very different from a child who lives in the global north and comes from a middle class background but there are also some very strong commonalities So, as we go forward, we need to be particularly mindful of making sure that our initiative s very much target the children who most need support whilst also thinking about how to gain the greatest possible benefit for the greatest number of children around the world So, it’s a very difficult job, I think, to balance that task but certainly those children are very much on our radar and very much driving the thinking behind the comment >> Sonia, will you just do the definition of a child because I think it’s a really important point >> SONIA LIVINGSTONE: So, in the Convention on the Rights of the Child, the article, the child is defined as between zero and 18 Of course, it’s arbitrary. Of something has to be said But, arbitrary is not, it’s still useful. And it’s useful because it says there are a third of the world is under the age of 18 That’s a lot of people, and as soon as you begin to think, how do we provide for their rights and ensure the realization of their rights, you immediately face all of those questions you think about So, article 2 of the Convention is the right not to be discriminated against In other words, to take account of all the ways in which children, people, are different So, immediately, run 92 that diversity, and then a very important article is that children should be addressed according to their evolving capacity and if you try to make a rule that says they should have this at ten, and this at 17, whatever. Evolving capacity is annoying because it doesn’t give you a single guideline but if you’re trying to think, how do we do the right thing by children N all their diversity, recognizing that their capacity is both developmental and cultural and contextual, then, it’s a really, really important principle. Because it says you cannot make a blanket rule, as, for example, the General Data Protection Regulation just did in Europe because children are different and that is precisely what the Convention says you have to address I don’t say it’s easy but that

is the driving princip>> BEEBAN KIDRON: Is there anyone who is — yes, Gerhart is going to speak. Is there anyone who is going to ask a question? Can I see a hand? Yes. Okay. Thank you. You go first, we’re just getting the mic >> Well, as it’s said, Article I in the Conventions Yet, I have been on the committee for eight years now and we usually meet with children during our consideration of State party Eight years ago, most of us in the committee were of the view that voting age for children should be 18 and not less than 18 Or vote some children, we have met were asking to lower the voting age for them to 16. But, we refused Yet, just two years ago, continue meeting with children, we discovered that children are getting more and more mature Why? I think because of the digital world. Because of the internet Because of the knowledge they are getting from the internet And we came to the conclusion at the committee that we are going to promote lowering voting age to 16. Because of that So, it is an issue of maturity Of children They are no longer to be left not to listen to them It is the most important issue as has been said many times, the right of children to be heard Coupled with this, it’s the responsibility of adults to listen to children. And listening to children is the most important aspect, and again, again, we, every day, we discover that children are getting more and more mature Sometimes Sometimes, I would say, much more mature than some adults (laughter) >> BEEBAN KIDRON: Thank you Actually — >> Yes, me. Is it working, yes? Hi, my name is Suzanne and I run Kids Past around not yet the world, but hopefully, one day, a global manifestation for children and I created this in Sarajevo after the world to bring communities together So it’s a nonformal educated event somehow and we were getting into the question of the internet and the dangers because what you all said is the benefit, the huge benefit, r and the huge danger, and the parents who are confronted with this question, and so, what we did in our festival was running workshops for the police on these two points, the benefit and the danger for parents and children, but, there’s one point that maybe you could address. A third point which me as a mother, made me very uncomfortable, and that is privacy Because I want to protect my child I have to check on the time and the content of its internet So, the best way is obviously dialogue, communication with your children if you have the time and right mind-set but sometimes it’s not really possible because children are feeling ashamed of what they did on internet Or surfing at midnight when they should be sleeping So, how can we the address this conflict of privacy and protection within keeping the usefulness >> BEEBAN KIDRON: Thank you Who wants to — who dares tackle that? Yes? >> Yeah, it’s a difficult question and I think, many parents and children are wrestling with exactly that. I think what we hear from children and young people and Mason may or may not agree, is we cannot infanti lize children and keep them safe until their 18th birthday and thin say, now you are free to make all your decisions. We have to find a way somewhere between zero and 18 in which we trust as parents they have learned and are resilient And I recognize it’s hard, but parents are used to doing this in relation to rote safety, they’re used to doing it in relation to strangers in the real world, they’re used to doing it in relation to advertising and

other media We have found ways in history of doing this. I don’t say we always do it well. Many bad things happen to children. They do get killed on roads. It’s not straightforward. But somehow each parent has got to find that balance because if the child doesn’t trust the parent they will not tell them and they will deceive. And if the child doesn’t grow up to do it by themselves, you have a disaster on 18th birthday plus one so it’s got to be faced >> I also want to say that not all dangers that we know about really cause harm to our children so we need to differentiate between the risk of harm and the harm that happens to our children so that’s the danger that’s much more than really happens. I don’t want to diminish that but still we have to keep that in mind And also, like Sonia said, you you also learn by experience Children learn by experience And we also need to take the providers and companies into account because they also need to guide this process. The children growing up learning how to experience Facing risks, being empowered to be resilient against these distant harms, it’s a curve like growing up and then becoming more and more confident, more and more resilient, and being able to cope with present dangers >> And I think Mason wants to >> MASON RIKARD: Yeah, just quickly, there’s a lot to do with trust in this situation And it’s all about, I think, finding a compromise because all families differ, the relationships between the parents and the child. With that, you can’t exactly create a set guideline as to how it’s going to be regulated, how the internet use of their child will be controlled And I don’t like to use the word controlled because it seems almost as if the parent is oppressing the child whereas the child should have the right to use online platforms. But, it’s a lot to do with compromise and a lot to do with finding a middle ground twin the parent and the child which — between the parent and the child which I think is really important >> I think most important is the trust. Build trust between parents and children. And it is the responsibility of the parents to establish such trust When we talk about children have the right to be heard, where did this right start? At home? This is where it starts at home When parents listening to their children. Giving them the opportunity to express themselves freely Not telling them like most of us did with children At certain point in time, you’re telling them, Okay You are still small. You don’t understand. You will understand when you grow up It is not the problem of the child To continue to be patient for the children. Listening to them, just listening to them even if they are wrong. Only listening to them give the child confidence that there is somebody listening to him or her That they are being heard And it builds this confidence Then, they won’t have as many secrets from their parents if they are used to talk to their parents freely Now, there are, unfortunately, some technical tools where parents can monitor children activities on the internet Without the knowledge of the children If the child would know that, it is becoming a serious problem But it happens

And because parents are worried about their children, and they continue to be worried and I can’t blame them if they are worried but they have to do it in a way to gain the confidence of the child and make the child, give the opportunity to then to talk to them And parents to listen to them >> BEEBAN KIDRON: And can you both speak quickly because I want one more question >> I can. Very quickly Children around the world say they want nothing more than to be trusted by the the adults in their lives. That’s parents, teachers, and every other adult they come into contact with and I see that is really very crucial to their capacity to use the internet well And the other thing that I would just underscore is that, again, the point around role modeling for children. And this is not just about parents in the parent child , as my colleague said earlier, we do place a lot of — on the parents. States and institutions and organizations need to be modeling these things for children you, explaining things, the implications what happens when their data is used I can’t say this strongly enough. The organizations and institutions that govern children’s lives need to take responsibility for showing children how to do this well So >> ALPESH SHAH: So, I know I just spent a good amount of time saying let’s be careful with technology. But, when I was growing up, we had about 15, 20 people living in our house. And for us, we always had someone else to speak to instead of our parents if we wouldn’t comfortable talking about something You know, uncles and aunts always served as good folks you could bounce off of but they wouldn’t judge you and what we see occurring more and more is the evolution of AI agents starting to play this role of intermediary even between parents and children And this becomes an interesting element because children feel more comfortable sharing information o online. There are organizations that really take into account the importance of privacy and security. Working with BBC and other companies based out of Geneva and I’m happy to talk about that at a later time I will say to that, we will start to see more technical interventions coming into play where there may be additional augmentation opportunities to support the parent/child dynamic? >> BEEBAN KIDRON: Is there one more question? We would love to have one more question? No Okay. I’m going to say something and then I’m actually going to ask Sonia so close for us. But the one thing that I’m struck by some of the questions, and one of the things that has happened in our journey is that a lot of people talk about this as a binary As if, how it is now is, it’s a great opportunity but there’s a lot of harm and actually our experience from children themselves is a little bit more nuanced and they say we love it but couldn’t it just do this? And they actually are more demanding of the system itself a little bit the way that was just explained by Alpesh They want the system to be, to afford them more privacy, more choice, more authority, and I want to just give you one example is, you know, one of the things that we brought into and I speak as a parliament airian so I’m taking on, what should states do piece of the question Is that one of the things p that we notice actually a lot of services Now, understand it’s in the best interest to show real life location at that exact moment. And mostly, the wherein it’s happening is to do with — or something else or something else but not thoughtfully thinking about the children so one of the things that the general comment can do and one of the things that Sonia’s comment is doing is actually really thinking about what the needs of children are, yeah, and where the interference is A little bit better would actually give parents a great deal more agency and give children a great deal more agency. But children tonight don’t experience it as a binary We don’t experience it as a binary And I think even unless they’re very, very desperate parents, don’t experience it as a binary Anyway, with that, I’m going to thank all the other panelists but I’m actually going to ask Sonia to close conversation Thank you >> SONIA LIVINGSTONE: Well, then, I’m going to thank you I will, so, to take it up. I would thank you very much for being here and part of our conversation today about

children’s rights in relation to the digital environment and I want us to, as we leave, to think about transcending a different binary The events are very important But, also, the binary between the child and the adult And I say this thinking that when I first came to the IGF, which is some years ago now, there was somehow a sense that the internet is really a place for adults not only is it designed for adults but it sort of should be a space for adults and that anyone talking about children is somehow trying to infantilize the internet or kind of shoot its knees so that it becomes less than it could be And that is absolutely not what we’re here to do. And we’re not here to pitch child rights, child protection against adult freedom which is how the binary has been kind of framed in the internet governance literature discourse doer quite a long time P the question is, how do people live together. Offline, children and adults live together not always well but more or less rubbing along More or less in the better interests of children. We’re still finding ways to do that online and so I invite you as you go out from this room, which, I believe, cares about children’s rights, into all the other sessions of the IGF in the days to come, to think, where are the children, is someone here thinking about how children could be part of this discussion, and part of these considerations, are they designing a world in which children are somehow unwelcome or unheard, and how can we make it better that everyone lives together online? Because the internet is not, the digital world is not an option And it’s not an population for children anymore now than it is for adults. And it’s not a matter of turning it off for them or putting them in a safe cotton wool space somewhere where they don’t live, they have to live in this world and even if they themselves don’t have access, we as adults, as stakeholders are digitizing children. We are putting them into that world and for all of those reasons, I hope you go out and ask awkward questions about children’s rights in the days to come. Thank you. And thank you so much to the whole panel and to you (applause) >> Thank you very much (Session was concluded at 5:08) *** This text, document, or file is based on live transcription Communication Access Realtime Translation (CART), captioning, and/or live transcription are provided in order to facilitate communication accessibility and may not be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings. This text, document, or file is not to be distributed or used in any way that may violate copyright law *** >> This was done by DARPA That’s the research facility for

the U.S. Army and they trained a system with

pictures of tanks and in the second

picture that you see in the center,

it was manipulated by, they added a little bit of green and yellow Hughes there hues there and by only changing a couple of pixels in this picture here, it threw off the AI system and it classified the picture as a British ambulance Obviously, that’s a horrible mistake but it just goes to show that it’s very, very important to have a robust asystem. Otherwise, there can be like grave consequences Here are a couple of examples So, it’s not only about, you know, visual recognition or recognizing pictures or videos It’s also about recognizing audio data or tabular data, voice recognition stuff, and all that stuff because it may, in the background without you or anyone, any user noticing, it might attack the AI whether it’s in the smart home or in a drone or just in any other computer machine learning system And that’s why it is very, it’s just very, very important to increase the robustness and ensure a system’s robustness and it’s still, it’s absolutely shocking to me that it’s not, that this is not a bigger issue Basically, there are three types of quality parameters when we talk about aquality. Number one is robustness And this is a, well, these are two pictures of an asystem that we were able to hack So, in Matt, we don’t, we do not create neural networks, we don’t

establish our own asystems, we get access to other organizations’ asystems and we just take them apart We hack them and we’re always able to get into the system and we’re always able to either make things disappear or add things or just show the user that their system is not safe In this case, this was a camera that was deployed in a car of a very large OEM and the picture on the top is the AI system in operation, operating properly, it recognizes the streets, the signs, and the pedestrians And then, we were able to hack into it and we just make the pedestrians disappear. Now, that did not go over well. They did not enjoy that when we did that. But, on the other hand, they were very happy because it just showed them that there’s a group of people who are able to get into our system In a very short amount of time and it’s just a little scary because if the car doesn’t recognize the right things, it’s just bound to cause an accident. Number 2 is comprehensivability and that is about investigating the decision tree. Why is it making this decision instead of that decision? Are the decisions being made in a transparent way? What’s the coding behind all of this and does the company want to be held accountable for the decisions being made by their system so we do have a couple of mechanisms to make sure that the decisions that the system made is, basically, in sync with what the company wanteds it to make but also , if you use this for analyzing somebody’s credit score and your credit score is lower than your neighbor’s credit score and you want to challenge this, the company who rated your credit score has to allow you access to the data or at least to the decision making process and this is why that is also important Number three is the functionality of this system So, when we talk about a, we usually talk about machine learning components. With machine learning, you train a system with, you know, hopefully properly labeled data. But, in the process, in the course of its lifetime, it keeps learning and if you, if it encounters certain data with certain results, it may end up running its own agenda and it might end up practicing fraudulent behavior, which, obviously, b the company may not want or does not want So, you have to make sure that the functionality of the system is actually what you want it to do and you have to take care of its free of any bias, any racial or agenda discrimination. And it’s operated in a fair way Without trying to answer the question, what’s fair, and all that This is a picture of the software that we’ve developed This is a bit of an outdated software because we’re working on it every day. We’ve got patents on it. We’re able to use it or we’ve been able to use it over the past 12 to 18 months but our goal is to actually maker it use year friendly and deploy it in the Cloud and have a Cloud service and so that companies who want to check their AI quality can just plug it into this program that will be called eight kit and then you can run your own tests and see if you’re AI system is robust and if it’s doing what it’s supposed to do We put together an industry consortium, let me say it this way. And we put together a technical standard and the heart of this standard is what’s picture there had in the center It’s the AI life cycle and we got together with larger organizations so this is not just a group of start-up dudes who decided that this is the right way of looking at it We got together with Microsoft and SAP and Bosch and continental and a bunch of others, a bunch of research organizations as well And then we decided that, you know, this is the way to basically look at it. So, you

have to look at the model. You have to look at the data. The training data. The input data The output data. You have to look at the platform So, the actual hardware of the car or whenever you’re going to implement your system and the environment so this is where we start our analysis. So, if a company wants us to check the hardware of their system, we always start with the environment. We can do credit models. We can say, what are the likely scenarios this system is about to encounter once it’s deployed. And then we simulate these scenarios in the software and we attack the AI system with those simulated situations I’m not sure, let me see, yes So, in the literature, there’s, there are a handful of attacks There are like 70 hand made tailored adversarial examples or attacks. And so, then, what these companies do is, they have an AI system, they create an attack, and they launch the attack on the system and had then they fix the system right there And then, the system is basically protected against that one particular attack And so, this is what this graph on the left is supposed to show. Like, you know, you fix your system individually, but, of course, if you think about a traffic situation, there are millions of scenarios that can pose a threat to a car or to a pedestrian. We looked at all of these individual attacks, s we took them apart and we realized there are certain mathematical building blocks around each attack and we took them apart and reassembled them and added more attacks So, we looked at like the threat model analysis, what can happen to any given system. Is there fog, is there snow? Is there rain? Are there shadows on the street? All of that stuff and we simulated this mathematically and we ended up with roughly 10 million of these adversarial attacks and just to ensure that if you have an AI system and we hammer it with just millions of attacks , we will find weak spots and we can identify the weak spots and also make sure that it doesn’t happen in the future So, we build a firewall around it in order to ensure that the system is safe This is part of — I was, I’m surprised by this slide right now But, it’s just a vague summary of what we did in the past and why the whole discussion about AI safety is just very, very important to us but also important to basically everyone else who wants to implement , what we do and why we think safety and security is a major, major issue when we talk about AI. Thank you (applause) >> Okay. Thank you You want to take a seat? We have half an hour now left so, I might skip the first part that I have planned >> Well, I think, any questions? I think I covered a lot of ground. I don’t know if there are, I mean, if you have any questions about, you know, the ten, 15, 20 slides, I forgot You can feel free to ask >> I’ve got a question about, I guess, the marketplace, when you say there’s no one else out there doing that, have you also considered existing intort firms that are developing their own in-house AI improvement mechanisms? >> Sort of There is one company in Silicon Valley also talking about robustness. We’re not necessarily talking about intortor improving intort. I know there are a lot of organizations that talk about that But, we are specifically talking about robustness and specifically gearing our

service toward companies that want to deploy AI systems in cars or in medical devices or in the aircraft industry where it’s really absolutely necessary that the systems are running in a safe way and that they cannot be attacked easily So, that’s why I think, you know, they, there’s just no one else who is as focused on robustness at this points The other company is called Calypso. They’re in Silicon Valley. They have an awesome website. We do not. That’s where it ends It’s a very cool website They talk about robust things But they do not have the tools that we have >> Okay. One more questions and then maybe the others will get afterwards so we can get in the discussion >> Thank you How easy is it for human beings to comprehend how a particular system, machine learning system, arrived at a particular decision, especially considering that the general data regulation requires that any decision should be interpretable so a human being can explain how the decision was made How easy is it to those decisions and be able to say how they were reached? >> Impossible. I mean, it’s a very short answer. It’s impossible That’s what I was saying in the beginning You cannot check a system’s quality by code review You have to have a tool that can basically speak the language of the AI that can take it apart in a sense This is also one of the reasons why it is absolutely shocking to me that we don’t talk about quality because we as humans do not have the capacity, cognitive capacity to look at these algorithms and at these neural networks of, I don’t know, 20 million layers and find errors It’s just impossible And that’s why we need tools that we can rely on, and the tools, then, you know, have to really check a system’s robustness and functionality before we deploy it I mean, you know, that’s the whole point. We can’t You can’t just look at a system and then decide, oh, this, that thing is safe. It’s just impossible And if you look at, you know, the handful of incidents that has happened to the Tesla drivers, Tesla refused to let people look into the black box, and see why did the car make this turn, that turn? Why did it change the lane here, and not there? Why did it run over a runner? They’re not going to let you look into the thing but it should be in their vital interest to, you know, run a couple of safety checks And they actually, so, if you own a Tesla and you park it at night and you enter the car the next day. There are a handful of software updates And you, as a driver, nobody asks you, do you want these updates or not? Nobody runs a test to see if the quality of those software updates is okay It’s just not done. And it’s crazy I mean, it’s just weird >> Okay So, one of my questions would have been , so, you guess you will have work for the next 50 years, or are we done at Montgomery County and say, now, we got to a solution and now it’s safe — done at some point and say, now we got to a solution and now it’s safe? >> We had an appointment with Google two weeks ago and when we talked about this and it was a very, it was a fairly short conversation And after two minutes, they said, you will have enough work for the next 50 years So, we did not speak before this so it’s funny that you mentioned this. They said, you will not run out of work because this is going to be the number one issue for the next couple of years But, it’s just a little bit difficult because there are so many

different domains of where you implement your AI system and we’re not the expert in like the medical domain or the expert in the aerospace domain so we have to rely on the expertise of others I was showing a picture of Volkswagen, so, they’re working with us because they know, they know all about cars. We don’t understand cars But, in order to get into all the other domains, we have to work with other organizations, that are active in these other domains And it should be in their own interest to, you know, IP sure safety of their systems >> And I have one last question for you, and then I would like to open the discussion to you, basically, looking at the technical dimension, but, when we talk about a, mostly, the yeah, ethical dimension comes into discussion Would you say it’s possible to disconnect these two dimensions or how do you deal with it in your work? So, is, I mean, you said that you talked about fairness in functionality. You wouldn’t want to say what is fair and unfair. But would you really want to disconnect these two dimensions? >> Yeah, I don’t know. I guess you can make sure that your system is trained in a certain way so it doesn’t have a certain bias in it but when it comes to these typical examples that were run by MIT, if a car, if an accident is unavoidable, should the car run over a kid or run against a tree. I guess these are ethical questions that I don’t know how you can put these answers into a neural network. I don’t know how to connect those two dots Yeah. Sorry >> Okay. Thanks. So, now I wish to open the discussion. And I would like to start with a question. In Germany, we are having a discussion right now whether it should be , whether there should be a labeling obligation for products that use AI So, whenever there is some AI used in the product in the application , it should be stated somewhere So, just a quick check with you Who would appreciate this? Or who would say, — so, it’s not >> That’s only five out of, I don’t know, 30 people? >> So, the others are tired or would say, I don’t see the point in knowing when AI is used? >> There’s a famous Google video, well, it’s actually just an audio thing, where, a person is calling a restaurant to make a reservation. And I don’t know how many people have heard about this. I guess no one But, so, this is like one out of three So, it’s just an audio tape and it’s two male voices, I believe And one is saying, I want to reserve a table at your restaurant, Saturday night, 7:00 PM, five people for two hours And the person on the other end of the line is like asking the right questions, you know, what time? How many people? Vegetarians, blah blah b. And it’s just a friendly chat. I don’t know, it takes like a minute or something And then, at the end, Google said, okay, this was our latest AI thing. And it just gave me the chills because it was really, like you couldn’t tell that this was like a computer It was pretty impressive And you know, as a private person, I don’t know if I would want that. You know, — >> Want to know? >> Yeah, no. If, like, if I want to have these interactions without knowing that I’m talking to a robot, or like, an ML, really So, yeah, I’m a little torn but I’m only torn because I’m working for an AI company But, I do think most people are a little not too happy that there will be these interactions in the

future >> So, maybe we stay with making a restaurant reservation. Would that make a difference Would you want, whenever you do a survey or whenever you call a hotline and they say, this call is being recorded if you don’t want this, please tell me now That would be a way in AI in these situations to have the choice? >> It’s unfair because we’re the only ones with microphones >> No, I’ll get to you whenever you >> Thank you very much In Germany, we are very good about creating labels for everything We did get 20 different labels Some of them are real labels Some of them are just labels of some retailers and things like that And things like AI, there is no real cooperation. It’s not like, this is AI, and this is not Making a phone call with a restaurant and having it voiced that is nearly human, this is AI, right? But, if a user search engine and it’s just somehow guessing based on my typos what is the right thing, this is also AI and actually, this is the part of AI that I really like So, labeling the things, it’s, I don’t think that this is the right approach. People should get used to it like they get utility to cars, tealike they get used to internet, like they get used to phone calls 200 years ago. So >> Okay. Thank you I would say maybe to give you an answer to this, if people don’t inia that AI is used, how would they get used to it. If you drive a car you know you drive a car and then you can get used to it whenever you do it. But if you don’t know whenever ais used and that’s how today it is , that could be a problem >> Actually, there is a lot of electricity in the car right now. Most of the people are using it already, things that keep the car in line. This is not really AI. Just a couple of sensors, measuring some distance and stuff like that. And things like this bring more benefits to the human being than avoiding things There was a story that was brought just a year ago or so A car driver said, was in the Court because he hit the buy cycle and he was just like — bicycle and he was like, no, I wasn’t speeding. And they go to the car and they check the computer in the car and they realized this guy was driving 70 kilometers per hour in the city So, that was the reason why I got to jail This is why he got to jail. This is the reason we already have it will in cars. It’s not really AI But things like this are already in cars and most people aren’t aware that every single meter of your car you drive is measured today already without AI >> There were two comments right there >> Yep >> I’m MP from DRC So, me, on the part of knowing that AI is employed or not, I think we should be informed Because as a customer, we have to make a decision If I want to be served by AI, if I have the choice to choose either AI or human, or if I don’t have the choice but at least I should be informed, because AI is not only the car, it will go on all the field. Maybe tomorrow, you go to the hospital, and the surgery been AI So, you either choose to be, to go to surgery with a normal doctor, human doctor, or AI doctor You have to choose that one I think making it clear that this is AI product should be very clear, precise And there’s also a legal consent concern on that. Because AI, it’s still a machine. A machine

can have a bug. It can be hacked So, if that machine makes a mistake, will we face the justice, will it be the creator of that machine? The company of that machine? Because at the end, that machine will not put it in jail You can only shut it off So, we need to sort of see the legal part of AI >> Okay. Thanks. I would, yeah, I’ll get to you I’d say we should definitely talk about this legal aspect, but maybe not now. So, I would like to focus on this first part, so, did we need a label? And as I understood what you said, you would say, yes, the consumer needs to be informed and needs to have the choice whether to use this AI product or a human in the background, so to say >> Hi, I’m Klaus. When the discussion started, I thought about the label made in Germany, which when it was introduced was to scare people off from buying product However, later within time, people appreciated the quality Though, I think being clear about that AI b is being used, it should be mentioned. Could be labeled. And maybe in the future, even a certain trusted AI or something like this could be developed to ensure a certain quality and being, going along with code of conduct or human rights and certain things that are implemented into >> And this, sorry, just to comment on that for just a second. That is something we’re working on. We’re working on, well, not working on it, but we’re talking to organizations that do certifications on, you know, just like checks your car and elevators and God knows what else We are trying to get to a point where we establish technical standards so that we can define certain requirements in AI should meet And then, there should be like a third party that can check your system with their test, with their standards and you can kind of b get C level approval and as a company, you can advertise to that. You can say to your customers, look, our AI system has passed all of these tests and it’s safe and always updated, et cetera This is not done today but I think that should be the future Like I said, we are talking to a certain certification companies in order to get that done and the government is talking about it, actually. At least the German government is talking about it I’m not sure about other companies but I think that is the future and that has to happen at some point. Anyway Sorry >> Hi, good evening. My name is Gabon Swift I work with Lat Net which is regional internet from the Caribbean But I’m just entirely interested in this from a personal perspective and I wanted to play devil’s advocate in asking why is it important in certain situations to know whether you’re dealing with AI or not? I mean, given that we have the equality assurance issues dealt with, if I’m making a reservation at a restaurant, maybe in that scenario, and in other commercial context, it may be better to be served by AI because there will be less of the hesitation There will be better solution finding from an AI than from a physical person. Now, I think there’s a distinction to be made when you think about it from an ethical standpoint So, of course, aligned to the type of information or data you shared So, sensitive data dealing with your medical records, your political beliefs, those sort of things you should know. So, there’s a need to have a label in that sense that if you’re sharing this type of data, you’re dealing with an AI person but in the majority of other cases, buying something, I need support from a hotline, making a reservation at the hotel, why should it matter? I think you might actually get a better level of service. You might actually have a hot of things that are solved that a human won’t be able so solve and I think you would just be happy If I were a company using it I would just have it deployed to make sure my ratings and my reviews go up >> Okay. Thank you Okay

We have another >> I’m not sure this current question has to do about AI and Democratic services but I’m from Belarus and we’re entering another phase of discussions supporting integration are Russia and Russia has an ambitious plan to use AI for improving economic behavior of its citizens and for monitoring more of its activities Social activities And I just heard about research at the University of hum bottle in Berlin that basically results in AI algorithms being able to determine a person’s sexual orientation and many other demographic parameters from just two or three sentences of text or just a short bit of text written by this person So, if the trust in AI is basically increasing, that kind of gives the permission for the total airian governments to use more AI technologies to be watching more. So, if the AI is better served people will trust it more and give more information. I don’t know. Is there a way to avoid this? I’m not sure >> One, you don’t disagree with the raft two comments, not at all. As long as it’s not safety critical, it doesn’t really matter. But the other thing, this is a whole nother can of worms we’re about to hope is what’s going to happen to all these jobs if you don’t have any call centers anymore. There are millions of jobs involved in this and they are very low paying jobs What’s going to happen to all of these jobs. This isn’t safety related But, it’s just another part of the discussion that, you know, is bound to happen when governments talk about, what are we doing with millions of people that are now unemployed. So, it’s, you know, it’s not only reduced to like safety issues, but it’s also about like, you know, social, economical discussions that I think every, you know, every company or every country, rather, has to address sooner or later >> Thank you very much. It’s a very interesting discussion we’re having, I think. I want to come whack to something you just said My name is Clisan, by the way I’m with the government of Canada. You talked about certification to verify that a product is reliable. But, in this case of AI, you described how you start your car in the morning ; Tesla has sent an update So, how does the certification work in the case like that? Because the AI evolves completely. When you start doing machine learning, it learns from itself so how do you certify that it’s still, you know, like what’s the certification process there? I just don’t technically understand how you keep doing that because technically, when you get to machine learning, you have to do it every instant that a new bit of data enters into the system So, if you can elaborate on that, I’d be very happy to hear it >> That’s a very, very good question. And obviously, you cannot do it in realtime because it takes, I mean, it takes gazillions of servers to run all these operations You know, to check a system’s robustness. But you do have to check it on a regular basis Now, if you, you know, just like you have to check your car your car brakes and taillights and everything else on a regular basis but in this case, it has to be done online. The only question is, what are feasible intervals? I mean, how much leeway is there between the updates and the checking and the rechecking, rather? I don’t have the answer. We don’t have the answer to this, to be honest But, it is something we have to talk about. I mean, me, just as a pedestrian or, well, rather, I ride my bike most of the time. I would like to make sure that the cars and the you can interests that I encountered on the street are, you know, being operated in a safe way So, I think every company that runs these systems, it’s got to be in its own, in their own interest to have these safety checks every once in a while. But, yeah, the online certification, that’s a big one. That is going to be a big one. For sure >> Okay

I would like to, as we have only ten minutes left, I would like to switch the focus and I’d say in Germany and maybe in Europe, in general, we are, when we talk about AI, we are often saying that we are here to slow and that we are to, that we are all protecting our data and so we cannot proceed with AI and that other countries and other regions are much faster and are not so afraid I would be interested how maybe you have another perspective on it all if you are from another region, how this topic is discussed So, I wouldn’t say that we are feared or that Germany and Europe are feared to be left behind but somehow, this is the tone in which it is spoken So we are always saying that in China and the USA, everything is much faster and things are just being done and we might might be able to get along with this development Is that o he Is that? >> So, hello, I’m from Italy Even though I’m from Italy and I move to Germany, between Germany and Italy, I can see the difference I find that Italy itself is left behind in Germany For example, one time, here, I called health agency and yeah, they asked me if like I allow them to record my call and I was surprised. Wow, what is this? You know So, I can’t imagine like, that’s true. Europe is left a little bit below and maybe southern Europe is even more behind than the rest of Europe So, I can say that, for example, Spain, Italy, are not the same technological level of Germany or Scandinavian countries. I don’t know, it’s my personal experience, though >> Okay. Thanks So, I take from this, I shouldn’t speak about Europe in general, but, there’s also differences in between those countries. Okay So, the, yeah, to look even further, so, not only Europe, but is this discussion also taking place in other regions, so, — >> I’d be curious to learn how Canada is dealing with this I’m sorry to put you on the spot. Apologies for that But, you know, from my point of view, this buy bipolarization between us and the U.S , there’s like very, very market driven, definitely less regulated than Germany or Europe, for that matter And then, there’s China, where you have like the top down government programs that, you know, they just, by pure force, put a ton of money into research and they enable companies to produce product and to be innovative And in Germany, we’re like, we’re neither here nor there You know, we talk about a lot of things, and we’re very, very good, at coming up with every concern you might have So, that is disabling us a little bit but I’m very curious to learn how the situation in Canada might be >> Well, thank you for an opportunity to show case my country. I always like that Actually, it’s very strange because there’s one province in Canada, Quebec, where 25, 30 years ago, the government had this policy of, just investing in research. Just pure research And so, it’s so happened that a couple of Universities in Montreal focused on, you know, computer science research, and we ended up attracting a lot of academics to Montreal to work on AI And some

of these people would have had opportunity to go work for Google, for a criteria of reasons but for a variety of reasons chose to stay in Montreal because they had variety and work there and a University funding research adjust for research sake So, this group of people They’re there. They’re very dynamic and for some reason, they have a very strong bias in terms of , okay, we’re developing this AI and want it to serve society So I can’t say we have huge AI companies coming out of Montreal and going to be the next start-up, the next unicorn but they’re all working on stuff to use AI to improve society in some way, shape, or form so there’s a declaration on responsible use of AI that comes from Joshua Benjio who is based in Montreal so they’re working on that so even though the environment is very permissionive and the government has not particularly regulated that space, the pool there, we must use this AI to do good for society As a government, I’m from foreign affairs, not necessarily from the industry department, but our take is that strepping AI with ethics in mind is not good. We want developers to have human rights framework in mind because ethics will change depending on your culture, your business culture might be, my hedgics is I need to provide profits for my shareholders, but if you say you have to provide AI based on the existing human rights framework, you’re pretty specific about what it is you’re allowed to do and of course in human rights law, it’s the government’s responsibility to promote and protect human rights But, there is the guiding ribs for the UN for private sector where companies are encouraged to abide by what the human rights law says and to make sure that what they do commercially does not harm human rights in any way, shape, or form and to be mindful about human rights in the conception, development, implementation, testing phase, deployment phase and so this is the kind of conversation we have with our private sector on AI So, I don’t know if that answers your question but kind of in a nutshell is what we do. So, neither the U.S., neither Germany, neither Europe. We kind of have our own space Thanks >> Excellent. Thank you.Ness back there >> Hi. Good day, again. Kevin Is he kit have Latnet. I find the topic very interesting that you say in Europe everything seems to be going slow We, at Latnik, we are also the Secretariat at Lat IGF, the regional process Internet Governance in South America and Caribbean and we just celebrated our 12th in this year in Bolivia and I would say despite all of us knowing that this is a very important topic for the region, for the very first time in this IGF in the very last session before the closing, we had just a very short discussion about all of 13 minutes on decision making with AI and the ethics around it But, it’s interesting because whereas you recognize it is an important topic, we are still at the level where we are really more focused only things like community networks, access challenges, protection of human rights online So, without knowing, we always look towards Europe to say, okay, that’s where the forefront of the activity is As a matter of fact, I did a scouting exercise last year looking at trade associations, all sorts of entities and where events on artificial intelligence were happening and 95 of the 100 plus events I found were happening in Europe So, it’s interesting to hear this comment as the way you feel so you could imagine how we feel when we had three days of IGF process and in the last sector when many people had already left on gone sight seeing, we started to discuss the ethics around AI >> Okay Thank you >> But I guess that just goes to show that we really enjoy talking about it while other countries just keep developing it, developing, developing >> Okay I know that you have to leave just in time. It’s a quarter past here. I have more

questions here that I would have loved to discuss Yeah, if you are also interested in further discussing, you can stay here I will stay here for a while, and I guess, we can maybe not in this huge room, but in a smaller circle, keep on discussing this topic that’s probably fill enough room until Friday and the end of the IGF But, yeah, at this point, thank you for being in the session and discussing with us And stay here if you like And if not, have good evening and get home safely (applause) (Session was concluded at 18:16) *** This text, document, or file is based on live transcription Communication Access Realtime Translation (CART), captioning, and/or live transcription are provided in order to facilitate communication accessibility and may not be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings. This text, document, or file is not to be distributed or used in any way that may violate copyright law ***