Is Anyone to Blame for the Pandemic? Chinese Citizens vs Americans | Middle Ground

and if we look at the ratio of the amount of people that got sick and then the amount of people that died that ratio will tell you that China’s numbers are not only false but they’re really false I would like to begin by announcing some important developments in a war against the Chinese virus notes from the US president’s press conference showing the word Corona crossed out and replaced with Chinese I think attacked China to divert the public’s attention from their own incompetence to control the Barrows I think the US government has not been focusing saving people’s lives we know there are many conspiracy theories out there conspiring to erode public trust I can tell you that there is a significant amount of evidence that this came from that laboratory in one this tweet from a Chinese government spokesperson claiming that the u.s. army brought the virus to Wuhan my current view of the US government overall is negative based on poor leadership lack of transparency and what I think is a really flawed justice and electoral system I’ve really let down to see what China became because it had a lot of potential to be something great and Xi Jinping came in and squandered it squandered it China has likely to come out of this any stronger position than the u.s. is likely to come out of this in a weaker position this may drive the US and China more deeply into a new Cold War my name is Eva I’m 25 years old I lived in Beijing right now but I just came back from the United States and I’m my own producer hi my name is each I live in Beijing now I’m 30 year old I’m a conference interpreter my name is Jehan I live in Shanghai I I’m doing research in machine learning my name is Melanie I am 30 years old I live in South Florida and I’m a glassblower hi I’m Eric 33 I live in Los Angeles California and I’m an executive assistant at a production company I’m Lola you can call me Lola I’m a bilingual event TV host but since this pandemic I do a lot of interpreting to help support myself my country has done a good job responding to the pandemic and if you disagree you can turn off your camera I actually just came back from the United States in March cuz I just finished my graduate studies there so and when I was there I was I have to like quarantine at home and not be able to like attend class like in person and now I’m back I start my new life in Beijing and everything is great is back to normal like shops are open like malls open and yeah people have to wear a mask but considering what happened in China like month ago so I think overall it’s being Reagan like the government has done a great job of course we had a really hard time in the past few months but at least we see hopes as long as we don’t have a second way so life should be go on like no more for the future my hometown only has seven people in toto impacted but the whole whole whole city was also locked down so quickly you know nothing happens basically beside wearing a mask nothing cannot like it’s different to me can they disagree Oz please join the conversation so the only thing I would ask you guys in analyzing whether or not your government did a good job of handling the coronavirus I’m not saying they did a bad job but I am saying that we don’t really know if they did a good or bad job or not you know China still has a huge chunk of its population that are old and they don’t understand the concept of germs and washing your hands and all this not to mention in Chinese public toilets you don’t have hand soap so the idea that between three and four thousand people only that number died from coronavirus obviously is completely false yes we have a lot of old people who are not that educated but they have they have kids and we don’t let them to go out and also you know because there’s a force up the whole lockdown and but my question though is not after the fact that when they announced that the thing was a pandemic I’m talking about in

December I’m talking about Leigh Whannell when he was I mean when he was getting depressed during that time the virus is spreading throughout the entire country and throughout the world all the pandemic into follows this curve and you can look at all the data how it has to follow this because this is how you spread so you know matching all the data that we have at the end now we have in the middle and when people spread so all those data are public and the science scientists can recover how they spread through models and this all are consistent because the scientists are obscured of your government the Kuna don’t say Shan town the Choshu Thai yeah well we can’t die yeah other Siamese from other country to draw comparisons with other countries like for example Italy that might also have poor hygienic standards that also might be a condensed population and if we look at the ratio of the amount of people that got sick and then the amount of people that died that ratio will tell you that China’s numbers are not only false but they’re really false as interpreter I always questioned that the Chinese government’s number because on daily basis I’m hearing those numbers and I’m hearing the challenge of those foreign experts about Chinese numbers as individuals we don’t have the ways to verify the numbers no one can but I think there’s something that you cannot lie about you cannot just hide those patients sorry once they’re infected they have to stay there until they recovered so how do I know about things are getting better in Beijing I actually had a surgery back in December and then my doctor called me saying that you cannot come back to the hospital we’re not opening so now I got a phone call about in March saying that oh okay it’s time to go now and though so because I actually went to Shanghai and Wuhan for the same problem I have so they also gave me the same call saying that now we’re opening business again there’s one thing we’re sure that things in China are slowly getting under control I just wanted to say a couple of things first of all I don’t believe it’s not a good job but for very different reasons than the ones that you guys are talking about illnesses that have been contagious that have gone out there that we didn’t lock down over and didn’t cause any more damage than this I really believe that the harm that was done because of the shutdown which in America we only had a very small amount of hot spots so it wasn’t that bad but then we have people killing themselves because they can’t support their families anymore it’s been developed yeah and yeah exactly it’s ruining lives when there’s really no evidence to say that the lockdown did anything to help and also there’s doctors who are speaking out that aren’t being given platforms because they’re not saying what the mainstream media wants them to be saying and they’re saying that lock guns don’t do anything China lied people died I mean China live in the beginning of it when they said everything was fine and over and over again they said everything was fine so certainly people died during that period that didn’t need to die things did not look good going into this pandemic for Xi Jinping it’s really likely that he tried to suppress it tried tried realized it wasn’t possible said [ __ ] it let it go to the rest of the world let it become a global problem this way I won’t be the victim of domestic criticism but the thing is that’s a problem America had a pandemic response team we had that okay Obama left that in office and guess what Trump got rid of it so if you’re asking me like I think the reason that this virus spread around the world is definitely on the Chinese government specifically Xi Jinping but the fact that so many Americans have died and it’s been so devastating to America I think that’s Donald Donald J Trump the reality is it’s true in sort of that I do believe that a certain amount of suppression and and lying or whatever you know definitely allowed the thing to grow but then to somehow put all of that on that single sort of central component feels like a massive oversimplification and frankly in my opinion just a political ploy to to remove any sort of blame or any sort of responsibility in like their response well I agree with sustain in the same way I agree that when Donald Trump lies American lives are lost the same back in December at the end of December I actually receive a message from my high school classmate who is now doing a PhD in biology in the States he warned us like our classmates about that there’s unknown virus going on in Wuhan and we all panic a little bit because it was stars like but later

on we saw on a new CCTV denouncing this rumor and then I was okay probably nothing and then went out my life traveling and I know many people include my clients will make total different decision if they knew earlier I have a client who travel to Han one day before the lockdown and he was trapped there and she’ll recently so definitely many lives are lost because the Chinese women life covered up in denial and silencing the doctor that’s for sure but I agree with Eric that saying that China is responsible for all the body counts this is just unfair I think our government is responsible for the life lost when they lie the same way you see people know where your mass because I see the American BP not wearing in the hospital because American media is saying that masses are useless and people inject disimpact into their body because Donald Trump says so so of course when the government says says and does something there’s consequences at the beginning you know you don’t know how effective it is if you are not sure you are going to cause really huge panic and caused a lot of loss and so later on while in January funded and then you know the difficult at is pretty bad and then you there two days later they lock down the whole city the other countries at that time only have several cases and you now understand everything of the virus that people have you know many people style and and many Santas work for you know for a month you figure out that you have all that information but the other countries do not do anything and then just let it spread I believe my country has a more effective form of government ah yah 3 when it talks about effective my understanding of effects effectiveness is that how effective you achieve your goals I know that Department has been a really bad issue in the past and before the CCP took over China you know people are having a really bad life and my many the the average what specifically what your attire well so I’m talking about like the 1940 and oh honey 78 to stuff got pretty bad you know between 1957 and 1976 III used to think in a way – but actually when I when I look at the data of the average people’s age increase even even in that time the average lifespan is has increased a lot you can affected so 40 to 70 million people that died during the Great Leap Forward by some killer not bad and nobody Chinese can I know what you said let me finish this this fact it’s important that the the average lifespan was 35 years old you know when the country was founded and before the reform and when we opened up the country it was 68 already so I agree with you on the fact that if we define effective at getting what you’re supposed to do done I think the Chinese government from basically 1980 up until 2013 i if it was 2013 I probably would have closed my video the Singaporean Prime Minister or whatever years ago lauded that said it was so impressive that the Chinese government had this ability to think in the long term you know anybody that studied economics you realize if you can manage your country in the scope of the long term of ten year periods you can actually do a much better job with managing the country if you don’t have to every four years worry about getting reelected and trying to convince voters that because you believe in Jesus as your Savior so you’re a good person that you know you can do a lot of better stuff but after she deemed young took over I’m not trying to say Xi Jinping is a bad guy I’m not trying to say he’s an evil monster I’m just trying to say he’s clearly not cut out for the job China has only gotten worse since he’s gotten office the GDP has gone down Xin Jiang you have that you have Shang Gong you have all these problems where you know people the world is turning against China the international society is turning against China and Xi Jinping has to accept responsibility for that if you centralize the power you have to accept the results of that you can’t like just blame all the fog to like one guy I don’t think like our Chairman is

the the only person who control everything and given without you everything like it’s a whole system that it’s getting people to build a house where though as to dr. Ahn is to like all the community to check every person go in a country go into the community so it is the whole system that is working it and what we are talking about is if the system is efficient and I think like just like if you’re just talking about the pandemic it is definitely very efficient we all go back to our were like normal you know you are you are saying that she committed me China government less effective so now you guys is more effective so can I talk about you know not just like we are becoming worse but you know how you are I think it’s comparing [ __ ] to diarrhea I think America is not very effective and I think honestly I’m extremely effective I mean I think they’re both bad if you change the word effective to efficient now definitely say like Chinese government’s much more efficient than the American one but my understanding of the word effective is not only getting things done yes the Chinese government can get [ __ ] done quickly immediately but that often means unintentional like wounds and also many of them are self-inflicted so if you look at the long term and where we’re going I don’t think right now we are really having a very effective government I mean the core ideas like is a centralized government more efficient than a decentralized one right I mean I think there are many things that America does you know over the course of its history of time and and how its government has been set up maybe not in recent history but in the long term where it has been more effective but in certain instances we do see China kind of advancing in a more efficient ways than than others putting too big of an umbrella on like which government especially given the rapid change changes in government that’s happened in the last you know four to five years is kind of makes the question a little bit hard to stand very rigidly on one side or the other there are strong reasons to believe that the virus started in Wuhan lab I personally believe Bill Gates and Anthony Falchi have a huge hand in this because they are very set on creating a mandatory vaccine for the entire world and a microchip that’s going to put everybody on a database which they are incredibly vocal about I think that if you look into it you can see that there is a lot to be gained by Bill Gates and the people who are he’s associating with the CDC the WHO which he funds by the way there there there’s a lot for him to gain I think the only problem with that product that I have is the word strong I mean it could have come from the lab for sure I wouldn’t negate that but like it’s strong to me just makes me you know the the idea that one lab would deliberately design a virus like this and leak it just to remove people’s freedom it’s almost laughable because you know like see see p-value stability and economic development over everything why would they do this to ourselves I mean we are the first one to get hit right just before this was happening you were having some of the wildest protests I ever saw in my life in the streets and all of a sudden protesting became illegal like that’s I mean you can see that as a coincidence but if you looked at history we’ve seen tyrannical governments go time and time again trying to take away people’s freedoms and trick them into doing what is the right thing for people’s from pupil safety and security at the end of the day like all we have now is a stronger media a stronger and more powerful media that can manipulate people more easily there’s no reason to believe that governments are gonna stop doing what they did just because we live in the current era whether this is a design virus you know it’s not up to us to answer that we do have the knowledge but we should listen to the experts who understand virus and now if the scientists say that this looks like a design virus because it’s just way too hard almost a basically impossible for human to design such virus I just I just want to say I mean is that like the least possible offensive way I feel you guys are just so trusting like somebody said before trust the experts and it’s like these experts are the people who are owned by the politicians that have everything to gain by taking away your freedoms I think we should clarify is the whole bill gates is we they talked about using digital certificates with health records which is not the same as implanting microchips in our brain to track our movement to do all of that I mean if they really wanted

to do that there’s much more efficacious ways to do it oh I translate and interpret for the occasion and those were their their foundation I think when he talks about population control it’s more about first control as Malphite it’s not like wiping out half of the population by a pandemic you know also like ten or twelve years ago whenever the office was on NBC Dwight Schrute did say that there’s too many people in this world and we need a new pandemic so I don’t know Rainn Wilson guys we should investigate him I’m willing to sacrifice my personal freedom to combat the virus I think the key award is how much freedom right we we the people in trust or government to make a decision to find the balance between individual freedom and safety right so in circumstances like this in a pandemic I’m willing to surrender some of my freedom in exchange for more safety same way like when I go on a plane I’m I’m willing to to go through a security check have people checking my luggage or even the pat-down I know that wasn’t me that talks a lot about like how draconian the Chinese measures has been I think there’s a double standard here in the very beginning when Wuhan was first going to lockdown I remember very clearly I read on the news saying that oh look at this dictatorship they’re putting people in hell but when Italy went into lockdown the Western media praised them for you know being responsible for their people’s safety so this is really ridiculous do I agree that sometimes the Chinese government’s doing too much to violate freedoms and just to fight this pandemic I agree but it’s in the pandemic your freedom will be sacrifice for sure unless you want to like a zombie planet we give up our freedoms in so many other ways just to live in society right I mean it’s like like Rousseau says like we’re born free but we’re everywhere in Chains because that’s that is the social contract that is sort of like in order to exist in society we need to be governed and follow certain rules so if I were able to save a life if I were able to if that was on the line for me I I think my notion or my sort of you know idea of like freedom to give that up in exchange for somebody’s welfare I think for me is something that I would personally be be willing to give up you guys know my stance at this point I think freedom is incredibly important I think that yes there are certain laws that come into play yes we do sacrifice certain certain things for the greater good but at the end of the day at least in America we have the Constitution and we have very specific things that are defended and we are seeing them trampled on more and more as we go into this I also am NOT speaking about my freedoms it’s not like oh like I don’t get to do this I don’t get to do that it’s not a selfish motive it’s I don’t want to see a precedent happens that justifies taking away the world’s freedoms that brings the society into a collapse like I’m it’s like a bigger picture thing I mean you can see it you can like in China when I first went to China in 2009 again in 2011 and again in 2012 I could talk to my professors about Tiananmen Square I could talk to him about Tibet I could talk to him about Taiwan I could talk to about anything and you know what they could criticize the government openly if they wanted to that was how it was and then over the last you know seven years basically China has progressively bit by bit given up little freedoms that have now put it into an age where it’s much more similar to North Korea and much less similar to Singapore which it originally aspired and was so close to being was because not once you gave up your freedoms it was bit by bit by bit the other side is misinformed I believe that anybody who doesn’t see this as a deliberate ploy to launch us forward into the New World Order is misinformed and hasn’t done the proper research that’s my personal opinion nothing against anybody I know we’re all doing our best but I think everybody people are throwing like message to each other as a weapon it’s not I mean I need you to know this this is that so we’re just using this as weapon to attack each other and to be empowered for our side coreos that we exist in a world where we have a bias we have a strong point of view we have these things and they’re reinforced by the media that we consume and honestly I think that we don’t generally consume media that we don’t

agree with we don’t consume media that we have a strong opinion against it’s a lot more for us just easier honestly to just say all those people are misinformed all those people are just not or not woke they’re not like this they’re not that and I think it’s just a lot easier for us to just go give give me the information give me all the give me all the data that backs up my point of view because who wants to just go in and look at the world as a thing that it’s like I’m gonna I’m gonna look up [ __ ] that is that totally [ __ ] my worldview and totally no challenges me nobody that’s gonna everyone me and make me agitated and pissed off right exactly it’s like everyone’s like everyone if you do read it it’s just to ridicule it it’s just to be like oh this is [ __ ] I said I disagree because one my to say that you guys are misinformed because I myself might be very misinformed well my experience living in Hong Kong the US and other parts of the world really changed my opinion about media because I know how miss boom we can be like if I only read American news I’ll be too scared to come back to China but the same way if I only read Chinese news I would never choose to study in the u.s so I think probably the truth kind of lies in between I have learned something from the other side you what comes to me the first is actually how the lands of the western people via China has depend not necessarily depend but like it’s very strong it’s not strengthened it’s gotten much worse yeah and actually some of the stuff is is not accurately in the way that for example that criticize absolute government Wow in the pandemic there are many events are because of society criticized the government a lot like annually on the reason why you know it because we criticize it to get the government and what’s kind of ban is trying to dis invalidate the legitimacy of CCP you know that’s okay right now on way bla post a picture of Winnie the Pooh and say I think it looks like Winnie the Pooh you’re trying to say the Communist Party only gets upset when you question their legitimacy guess what you were right 10 years ago not anymore because now you have a leader that bans Winnie the Pooh the prompters I have learned something from the other side so if you want we can restart if you disagree you can be honest and turning off your camera but if you agree please talk about what you have learned from the other side I think what I’ve learned honestly just even in this conversation that seemed like it was kind of Dee railing is that how much culture and where we come from and how we’re brought up really affects the lens in which we we view things that we look in very monolithic terms you know like ideas like freedom like truth I think for me what I’ve learned is like going for it to view that in a way to not just read something like they’re taking this away from me or everybody’s that’s fake news this is that it’s more just like looking at it sort of as a spectrum instead of you know just very rigid or binary things there’s a lot of things that I’m sure Luna and I agree on and then there’s a lot of things that we probably would harshly just really disagree on and the fact that that can exist that we can have parts of our mind and our the way that we view the world that are so similar but then their parts that we just like completely disagree on just goes to show you that there’s so many different shades of human psychology and to me I think that’s the interest of life I think that that is it that’s why I like this idea of this show middle ground I know the idea of thinking and extremes makes the world simple yes or no right or wrong you’re with us or you’re against us but that is oversimplifying a world that is much more complicated than that in the world beauty is in those details actually I don’t think this other side because for example I disagree with my sites too so you know it’s not found like China versus us all right I agree with many points of each and every one of you and disagree on many points as well so I don’t really see it as this bipolar debate for example I love Melanie’s great um passion about freedom like actually in China we need more people to root for freedom because we have too many people rooting for the establishment already we could have become friends and keep communicating with each other down dude I got videos all over that thing that talk about subjects that you would definitely be interested