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I’m Arnold Lehman. I’m director of the Brooklyn Museum for those of you I don’t know. And it is actually a very great honor, I think that’s the right word, and an equally great delight to have you all here today to celebrate something very important to the Brooklyn Museum Very important to the City of New York and I think very important to everyone who’s thinking about things. And that is the third anniversary of the opening of the Elizabeth A. Sackler Center for Feminist Art. Before I go any further, I just wonder if it would be an imposition to ask to those people scattered about there, if you would be willing to move forward. If you’re not, not to worry. But it just sort of is, it would just seem, it’s so much easier when a crowd or audience is together rather than scattered like this. We are, as you very well know because you got here competing with the most gorgeous day of the entire year Not that that’s a good enough reason not to be here. But I’m glad you all are. Today while we very proudly look back on three years of leadership and exceptional exhibitions, programs, and events, we also are celebrating feminism and its future. And what better way of doing that than by inviting some of the most significant voices in this dialogue from the past decade to join us here today, and looking forward and in envisioning feminism’s place in the cultural world of the second decade of the 21st century and perhaps even beyond. In a moment I will invite our trustee and great friend Elizabeth Sackler to introduce today’s speakers. But before I do, I’d like to take a moment to thank Elizabeth for her incredible vision and commitment to the realization of the Elizabeth A. Sackler Center for Feminist Art at the Brooklyn Museum. It hardly seems possible that it’s been, I don’t know if it’s been a year or a decade, since Elizabeth and I started brainstorming about building a center devoted to feminist art. From those earliest discussions when we both knew that we wanted to do so and to find a permanent home for Judy Chicago’s magnificent and iconic Dinner Party. Taking that all the way to the current installation of Kiki Smith’s Sojourn in the fourth floor feminist art galleries. No one could have had a more distinct, innovative or expansive conceptualization than Elizabeth of what needed to be done. The accolade visionary is perhaps too often used today to acknowledge forward thinking ideas. But in Elizabeth’s case, visionary is perhaps actually an understatement in describing what she has accomplished here in collaboration with the Brooklyn Museum and with those very many hardworking museum professionals who share this vision. And by this point in time after these years here, everyone in this museum I believe does share that vision. However, along with the word vision there could be no appropriate description offered that did not also immediately and necessarily add the words vibrant, engaging, powerful, and inclusive. While these might sound like the praise given to a new film in a newspaper, here they are the very essence of what the Elizabeth A. Sackler Center for Feminist Art was both meant to be and has to our enormous delight become. It is, again, with equal amounts of pride and pleasure, that I welcome our trustee, my very good friend, Elizabeth Sackler, to the podium. Every year it gets better and better. Thank you. Before you leave, I want you to stay here. This is

an anniversary. This is a birthday, in many ways. I don’t know whether or not we would call it an anniversary or birthday, but it does mark a relationship. It marks the birth of a new life. And on birthdays and anniversaries, we pay tribute to partners and to children, and we thank a person or people, without whom there would be no cause to celebrate at all So I want to take this opportunity, too, additionally, and publicly thank my muse, Steve Robinson, and of course the great Judy Chicago, each having actively participated at inception or conception, depending on how you look at what we have done. But, I have to thank the man, who I say has become the father of this great achievement of the Center for Feminist Art, and that, of course, that is Arnold Lehman So, for me, in gratitude to you, for your support, your enthusiasm, your coddling and cuddling, your disciplining, your unconditional love. I am going to say that, because you are, you are our biggest supporter, of what the Center is, what we do, and how we do it I’m going to present Arnold, which I have to duck down here and get, a very small token, and a personal token, of my gratitude, to you and to the museum, but to you, especially So, I’m ducking down here, I’m pulling out a white bag. Oh my goodness. And giving this to you, and you’ll have a chance to take a look at it more closely, but anyway, this is for Arnold. Oh, how beautiful. Yeah, well, you’ll see. OK. But I’ll help you down the stairs with it, maybe I can put it down there But I want to thank Arnold, and I think we should all thank Arnold. Because without Arnold, there would not be a Center for Feminist Art Thank you, Elizabeth. But it is Elizabeth Well, actually, it’s, this is, it’s pretty gutsy for me to do it, but it’s a monoprint, and it’s a monoprint that I made, actually, in 2008, in Portugal, when I was taking a workshop there. And, when I made it, I did it and I looked at it, and I drew, with a pencil afterwards, a little arrow that said, underneath it, To Find a Perfect Man. Arnold is the perfect man. If I may say one thing, we’re all friends here. I’m, this, came from that period of Elizabeth’s participation, instead of the boxing. Yeah, I’m a boxer now So, he doesn’t want to mess with me. So, for the scores of you, and those who aren’t here, who might be enjoying this beautiful day, I thank you for coming. But, you know that, my welcomes and introductions to all of our panel discussions and programming, always begin with my saying, The Elizabeth A. Sackler Center for Feminist Art is an exhibition space, permanent home of the Dinner Party, and feminist art space. We are an educational facility, dedicated to feminist art, and our mission is to raise awareness of feminism’s cultural contributions to educate new generations about the meaning of feminist art, and to host lectures and discussions on feminist activism. That is how I begin all of my welcomes and introductions, and today is no different than that. So, I’d like to welcome you. This is a panel discussion celebrating the third anniversary of the Center, and the Elizabeth A. Sackler Center for Feminist Art is an exhibition space, permanent home of the Dinner Party, feminist art space and education facility, dedicated to feminist art and you know our mission. And I thank you so much for being here to support that One year ago, it was our second anniversary, I introduced Catherine Morris, Catherine’s here, as our then new curator. Catherine, I just want to say it has been a real pleasure working with you this past year, and I’m looking forward to many more years of collegiality You have brought excellence, you have brought intelligence, you have brought grace and enthusiasm And I want to thank you for all of that, because

it’s really giving us enormous strength, and possibilities for the future. And your staff, including Sarah Giovanelli, is she here? Sarah, I just saw Sarah come in. Sarah’s been here, practically, since the beginning of time, with the Center, and I want to thank you and your staff for everything you do. I know you work tirelessly, and it’s very, very much appreciated. So I thank you. Radiah Harper, I don’t know if she’s in the auditorium today, but even if she isn’t, I say to her, what a journey. And I thank her, she’s head of the education department. I thank her for her love of our mission, she has come to support, and facilitate, our vision, and the mission of the Center, in a way that maybe, I couldn’t have anticipated three years ago when we began, and it has been invaluable. Charles, Kevin, Cynthia, Sally, Adam and the board of trustees of the Brooklyn, I thank all. We couldn’t exist without the commitment of all of those people. And I also want to add my thanks and my love for the team of security guards here I’ve come to know them over the years. We broke ground, I don’t know, seven years ago? And I know many of them, I don’t know all of them in the whole museum, but there are about a half a dozen or so that I have come to know, and they’re very proud of the Center And they love engaging, and talking with people who’ve come to visit, and I consider them to be a very lively part of the Center’s family So, I just want to say that. On the homefront, Rebekah Tafel, who is here, she’s sitting next to Catherine. She is with the Elizabeth A. Sackler Foundation, and she has been brilliant She’s committed to all that she does, she knows everything that’s going on, and she knows everyone who is going on with everything that we’re doing. And she’s fabulous to work with, it’s been a pleasure for me. She is the future of the foundation, as is her endless participation, assisting in the Center’s growth She works very closely with museum personnel, and it’s been a pleasure, and I thank you, Rebekah. This year marks the activation and organization of our Council for Feminist Art, which is a very, very exciting thing for us It’s a fantastic group, getting in on the ground floor to help with the Center’s growth, and to enhance the acquisitions for the Center, and, as far as I’m concerned, we have a goal And the goal that we have is to collect the most important collection of feminist art in the world. To have it, to house it, and to hold it for future generations. So, thank you to our charter members, and those of you who will, or might become members of the Council We’re gonna be coming up with different tiers, so we hope that we will be able to incorporate anybody who is interested in supporting different aspects of the Center. After today’s panel, we’re gonna have a toast of wine at the Center, for our third birthday, so I hope that you’ll join us. I’ve made a note here, and I wrote it this morning, and I think it’s true. That, with this Center, we have broken a glass ceiling And we have challenged others, other museums and galleries to do the same, and I am proud and pleased that today’s programming was shaped and organized by the Adult Programs team who worked tirelessly throughout the year, assisting and facilitating the Center’s programming And that’s sort of a first. I have been sort of responsible for putting together our anniversary programming, but this year Travelam Ong, and Elizabeth Kokay, who I’d like to thank very, very much for your activation of this program today, and they’ve been instrumental in it, and for Catherine’s participation, too. And so, today, we are seeing, as you know, Redstocking, Riot Grrls, and Right Now, Three Generations of Feminism and Conversation. Moderated by Jennifer Baumgardner and Amy Richards, featuring eminent panelists Alix Kates Shulman, Farai Chideya, and Marisa Meltzer. Amy and Jennifer have worked together on various projects since they met in 1993, as 22 year olds at Ms. Magazine Jennifer was an intern at Ms., while Amy worked down the hall in Gloria Steinem’s office And Gloria has been an enormous, a huge wonderful fan and friend of the Center. And it’s wonderful

to have both Amy and Jennifer here. In October, a book they cowrote about the state of the women’s movement, Manifesta, Young Women, Feminism, and the Future, was published and served as the platform for a national speaking tour which brought them to dozens of community groups, countless bookstores, and more than 200 universities and high schools. They founded Soapbox, Inc., I love that, Speakers Who Speak Out, in 2002. Their second coauthored book, Grassroots, a Field Guide for Feminist Activism, was published in 2005. Amy is the cofounder of the Third Wave Foundation. We have partnered with the Third Wave Foundation in many different ways over the last few years, and she is also the voice behind As Amy, an online column at, is it feminist.com or is it feminista? It’s feminista. Hm? Feminista. Feminista.com So, this is great, we have two. We have a feminist.com and we have a feminista.com So there are two dot coms that are rarin to go here. This is terrific. I’m sorry, I lost my spot. The project director of Anna Deavere Smith’s Twilight in Los Angeles, and the author of Opting In, Having a Child Without Losing Yourself. That’s to be read. I have to give one to my daughter, she just had my third grandchild. So I have to look for that. Jennifer writes for dozens of magazines, where are you, Jennifer, I’m just, there you are. Hi Including Glamour, The Nation, which we all love, Real Simple, and Harper’s, she’s the creator of the I Had An Abortion project, the author of Look Both Ways, Bisexual Politics, which was published in 2007, and Abortion and Life, which was published in 2008. She is currently working on a film and awareness project called I Was Raped. Amy and Jennifer live in New York with their families. And before I invite them to come up, I would like to just say a few words and give you some of my thoughts. I was looking at the cover of this, and the title of this, manifesta, and feminista, and matron instead of patron of the arts. Because when people say I’m a patron of the arts, first of all, I don’t consider myself a patron of the arts, but, I say, Well, if I’m anything, I’m a matron of the arts. And they say, Oh, you’re being so literal! And I say, Well, it is the literalness of words. Words are literal. All men are created equal, meant then, all men are created equal, and of course we know they meant all white men are created equal. In literature and in scholarly writing, the use of he and him meant he and him. The idea that no, no, no, it really meant she and her was sort of a way of getting around an embarrassment of what became a politically incorrect bobbedy bob debob, I won’t go on You all know it, but I think what the point is, how the ways in which language subverts equality. And we are so accustomed to that that we sometimes don’t even notice it. So, to my mind it’s not about fussiness. It’s really about accuracy. And I think, as we attempt to take back the night, we must forever be diligent about taking back our language as well as our wall space. So, with those few thoughts, please join me in welcoming Jennifer and Amy. Thank you so much. So, that’s perfect. That’s the way you’re supposed to say it. Right. I’ll be right there and, Amy’s on the stage right of us. I’m Jennifer Baumgardner It’s really a pleasure to be here. I’m going to introduce the panel and say a few words to orient you a little bit more to Manifesta, Young Women, Feminism, and the Future, which is celebrating its 10th year anniversary this

year. And there’s a new edition of it. Amy and I are really excited. It was a book we wrote. It was published in 2000. And when it was published in 2000, we never dreamed that people would still be buying and reading it. So, we feel very fortunate. I’m going to back up a little and say a little bit about who Amy and I are because I think it says a little bit about feminism and how integrated feminism is, just in the water, which is the phrase we use in Manifesta. It’s common in a lot of ways, and its power has been there so long we often don’t even know it’s there, even though we’re benefiting from it. That’s definitely true for Amy and myself. So, Amy and I grew up in entirely different kinds of families, at least, superficially different families, far away from each other. I grew up in Fargo, North Dakota, and she grew up in central Pennsylvania. The superficial differences were that my parents were a nuclear family My parents met when they were in 7th grade, got married in college. They waited until college. My dad was the breadwinner. My mom was the stay at home mother of three daughters Nonetheless, at a certain point in her life, basically, Ms. Magazine came into her life, but the largest thing was that feminism came into her life. There were all these social justice movements going on. She felt a little isolated from them in her home in Fargo with her three kids. Ms. was suddenly at the grocery store, and it magnetized a lot of the conversations and thoughts she had been having about her own life, namely, she wondered how much she had really even chosen that life. She grew up wondering, thinking she could be a teacher or a nurse. Her mom was a nurse, so she became a teacher. It didn’t even occur to her to not take her husband’s name. And while she left her family and her husband, she wondered if she had really tapped into all the potential of what could have been a passion for her What were her talents, and was she really expressing them? And so, I was born and raised by a mom who was actively trying to figure out her identity. Amy’s mom, on the other hand, left Amy’s father before Amy was born Amy has never met her father, and this was before there were MTV shows for teen single mothers, celebrating it. And so, Amy’s mom was a single mother at a time when it didn’t have that kind of, maybe, occasional positive or any sort of attention that wasn’t negative In fact, when Amy’s mother left her father, she was counseled by her parents and other people who were trying to do the best thing for her to arrange an adoption. There’s no way that Amy’s mother could raise Amy and do a good job. Amy’s mom said, No, I’m gonna raise her on my own, and she did. Our two moms who had women’s groups and read The Women’s Room and kind of were being affected by feminism at the same time. They also managed to express these two values of feminism that I think are very important of Second Wave feminism that are very crucial. My mother threw laundry strikes and refusing to pick us up when we called her and not making cookies, even though the mom down the street made cookies and I was kind of embarrassed that my mom wouldn’t make cookies for us. By making her labor, withdrawing her labor occasionally and making her labor visible, it was making the things that women do visible, traditional women’s work visible and maybe more valued and maybe more understood by her daughters. And while it was embarrassing to me as a child, I now look back, and I’m really grateful that my mom did do that and let us into her struggles Amy’s mother, on the other hand, showed that given the opportunity or the necessity women can do anything that men can do. She bought the house and paid the mortgage. She bought the car. If there was a mouse, she trapped it, and she put the mouse in the garbage There weren’t jobs that were gendered in Amy’s house because there wasn’t a man. And so that was a very liberating example in a lot of ways for Amy to grow up seeing. There were other things, other reverberations, I guess, of the fact that we were raised in these feminist households, and the one that is popping into my head right now about Amy is that when she was about five, her teacher asked her, asked the class if anyone knew how to sing the national anthem. Amy raised her hand, and she said, I am woman, Hear me roar, In numbers too, because her mother had told her that that was the national anthem. And in my household in Fargo for some reason we talked about abortion rights a lot, like at the dinner table. That was like a big part of our conversation. And the way it would play out in my life is that my Barbies were always getting abortions And I would go to school, and we would have to do speeches where people argue different sides for a speech. And I would argue the pro choice side, but I was the only person on my side. People were like, Why is that

fourth grader always talking about abortion? But, it was a reflection of these interesting feminist conversations that were going on even in our homes. When Amy and I got to Ms as 22 year olds, we were really both so thrilled to be there. By this point we consciously called ourselves feminists. We weren’t just kind of picking up on the reverberations We were really thrilled to be in hubs, feminist organizing. In a way, we were sort of thrilled to be the teacher’s pets of the Second Wave That’s sort of what someone called us once It’s sort of true. It felt really great for a while. We were the younger people in the room, providing the young feminist viewpoint For a while it felt so great, and it felt so powerful to get to be that one young feminist in the room or those two young feminists in the room that we kind of went along with the concept that, maybe, there weren’t that many young feminists. It was really just the two of us. We’re so great. But, as we matured, we started to feel like there was more of a conflict between what we were talking about in these Second Wave institutions that we were really, really happy to be a part of and what was going on in the rest of our lives The conflict was really that we saw feminism all around us, and in fact we saw our peers, men and women, living really feminist lives, whether they were using that language to describe it. And expressing feminism in interesting ways and, maybe, in ways that our mothers’ generation would not have imagined for us And so, the reason we wrote Manifesta was in many ways to reconcile that conflict, to describe the feminism that we saw around us and to document it for ourselves primarily, but for a generation, or to start doing that This wonderful thing happened when we wrote the book is that we got invited to go give lectures at lots of colleges and high schools and community centers. And we got to learn so much more from those conversations and from that touring than had even gone into the book. And so, the book had this life that went far beyond what we wrote, and this conversation about feminism just kept growing and growing and growing for us. That’s been really exciting and an honor to get to continue to learn by having these conversations and this relationship that feminism, knowing that you believe in feminism or trying to figure out feminism really can provide. One of the things that’s been sort of interesting that’s happened to Amy and I a lot as we’ve gotten slightly more prominent is that, I mean, we’re still not prominent, so I’m always like does that sound weird? Slightly more prominent, is that when women of the Second Wave who are older have died, like in the last decade actually, a lot of very prominent Second Wave leaders have died. Betty Friedan, Andrea Dworkin, June Jordan. Just a ton of very important people who were quite famous have died. And when someone passes we do often get calls from journalists saying, So and so died and they were so important for this one generation of feminism. They were leaders. And who are the leaders in your generation? And we always think it’s so, almost insulting because they’re calling us. But they’re like, We know it’s not you, but can you point us or give us the phone number of who it is? We always say, You’re right, it isn’t us because, and then we quote Alice Rossi from The Feminist Papers Because the public heroines of one generation become just the private citizens of the next And we can all be the Betty Friedans and the June Jordans of our community and of our lives nowadays. And that’s the wonderful thing But of all the progress that I think that we’ve seen because of feminism, and also it’s a challenge to go on and make something with that gift we’ve been given of a more feminist world. Now I’m going to introduce the panel I’m going to start with Alix Shulman who’s right here. The stage left person. For 40 years Alix Kates Shulman has been a feminist activist in Redstockings, New York Radical Women and other pioneering women’s liberation groups. And she’s a writer. An incredible writer. In 1971 her biography of Emma Goldman, To the Barricades, was named an outstanding book by the New York Times. In the following year she published Memoirs of an Ex Prom Queen A novel portraying the sexual and social predicament faced by young, middle class women in the prefeminist 1950s. It sold over a million copies and it was issued recently under the aegis of the Feminist Classics series. And I got to write the intro, which was a big honor. Besides four novels, she’s written three memoirs. Most recently, To Love What Is, a book that recounts caring for her beloved husband who’s suffered a traumatic brain injury in 2004. Besides being his primary caregiver and blogging about it for Psycology Today, she’s working on a comic novel, her fifth, about Second Wavers and their old age. Farai Chideya, who is to her right, or to the left if you’re looking, has combined media, technology

and social justice during her 20 year career as an award winning author and journalist She is a contributor to the public radio show The Takeaway. And I listen to that all the time. And a frequent lecturer and consultant on digital media strategy, corporations, universities and nonprofits. She recently and for quite awhile hosted NPR’s News and Notes, a daily national program about African American and African diaspora issues. She has won awards including the National Educational Reporting award, a North Stars News Prize and a special award from the National Gay and Lesbian Journalist Association for coverage of AIDS. She’s written three nonfiction books, Trust, Reaching the Hundred Million Missing Voters, The Color of our Future, and Don’t Believe the Hype, Fighting Cultural Misinformation about African Americans. She’s also the author of the novel Kiss the Sky. Marisa Meltzer is the author of Girl Power, which was just released. Or does it come out in May? No, it was released in early. Oh yeah, I was at the party. I’m like, I just finished breast feeding. You were double booked that night. That was a busy night. Girl Power, The Nineties Revolution in Music. And she’s the coauthor of How Sassy Changed My Life. Her work has appeared in the Wall Street Journal, Slate, Elle and Teen Vogue. And she attended Evergreen College, and currently lives in Brooklyn, New York So she’s always living in the really hip places She is working on tons of things including, she had to learn today that she has the first chapter of a novel on her blog Marisa, Marisa, Marisa. She writes about feminism for Slate And she most recently wrote about haul videos Do people know about this? That weird YouTube phenomenon where teenage girls do videos basically about what they’ve bought at the stores. So she can talk about that. And she posts ephemera to meltzer.tumblr.com, feminist ephemera, and she’s also working on a zine with Elizabeth Spiridakis, called First Kiss, and is an anthology of first kiss stories. So, that’s the incredible panel, and Amy Richards, my friend of 17 years, and collaborator of 15 years, probably, is going to vigorously moderate. Thank you. And, I’m just gonna start by saying, a little bit of how we came to this panel today, was in part the anniversary edition of Manifesta coming out, in part the celebration of the Sackler Center third anniversary, and have this opportunity to sort of say, where is feminism today? What does it mean, and as much as we’ve evolved in our feminism and we keep, sort of, refining our definitions, there are some staples that have sort of stayed with us. And some of those staples are people, and ideas, and the ideas that those people create. So when we had the opportunity to do with this, you had the opportunity to do this today, it was, I think you were all our first choice, and you could all do it, and you came, in part because you’re all stellar in your own right, but you had such an impact on us and what you were doing, and specifically, when we were writing Manifesta and we came up with the ideas of Manifesta in the mid 90s, as Jennifer said, we were, sort of the pets of the Second Wave, which is code for also, maybe we were just a little too obedient, and idolizing of the Second Wave. And Alix Kates Shulman was one of those people who was both somebody who inspired us, but also somebody who was sort of saying indirectly or directly, create your own feminism. Go out and do it. If you want, if you don’t see what you want to see, you have to write it yourself, and you have to create it. And so you were inspiring us then with that message, and continue to inspire us today. And Ferai at the time, was a friend and a colleague, and it was, as Jennifer said, we were in the offices of Ms. Magazine, in Gloria Steinem’s office, and I think feeling like that was like, the center of the universe. And Gloria Jacobs and Jeanann Pannasch are here, colleagues from those days at Ms. And Ferai was, at the time, working at ABC news. And there was a little bit of a, I can’t believe she sold out, I can’t believe she’s at ABC, why would she go to ABC and not work at Ms.? Or, why would you do something, why not work, of course, ABC has long outlived most alternative publications, but it was a wonderful lesson for us and it really became, in some ways, the premise of Manifesta, when we were asked to define feminism for our generation, was, how do you both sustain the vibrant alternative world that feminism has created and at the same time, have a foot in the mainstream, and try to shake up the mainstream? And Ferai was, at that time, leading by example, and though it was, initially, threatening, it turned out to be a great lesson and has, obviously, continued to inspire us in so many ways. And Marisa Meltzer, at the time, inspiring us, but everything she has gone on to chronicle, Sassy magazine, and the Riot Grrl movement, would, we wish your

books had existed, when we were writing Manifesta, because there were too few resources available that chronicle those worlds, and they were such a big part of what we were trying to say was feminism today, and how it was just out there, in the culture. And so the ideas that you’ve gone on to document so well, were in Manifesta and so thank you for writing that. And I just want to start by saying that, when Jennifer and I wrote Manifesta, we were a little bit sort of too dependent on how feminism was being defined by feminist institutions, and so we would sort of say, Feminism is the movement for the full social, political, and economic equality of all people. And that’s true, but once we started lecturing that, out in the world, we would get audiences of people that would say, Uh huh, and how does that relate to your life? And what do you mean by that? And how do you live a feminist life? And so we’ve had to kind of evolve on our definition, and when Jennifer was introducing us, by introducing our backstory, it shows the context of how we were, in many ways, and I think this is true for most people born after 1970, feminist from birth. Whether or not we were identifying, that, as the way to define our lives, we were born into a world that had so radically changed, as a result of feminism, and so we were the beneficiaries of that. And it was not until we were in college, where we started using the actual language of feminism, and saying, Oh, yeah, that’s right. That’s why my Barbie was having abortions, and that’s why my mom made me sing that song It was standing up for yourself, and it was about power, and it was about this movement, but it was not until, I think, we were in college, where we had a language, and then it was not until after college where we had each other to sort of say, Oh, yeah, that’s it. We’re not weird. Or at least, we can be weird together. And so, I want to start by asking each of our panelists, where you were when you started to identify, where you were in your life, when you started to identify as a feminist, and sort of go, in chronology Alix, if you don’t mind answering first, where you were, and I will just say to some of the panelists as well, that the title for today’s talk, as you know, is Redstockings, Riot Grrls, and Right Now, and though many of us know Redstockings and Riot Grrl, and hopefully Right Now, maybe not everybody does, so if your answer can maybe incorporate that, to also fill that out for people. Alix. Well, it’s so different from your lives. When I, I was very lucky, is this working? Is it? OK. I was very lucky to be right here in New York when the Women’s Liberation Movement was born, and even luckier to be able to get in on the very beginning of it. I was a 30 something year old housewife, mother of two I had had to, well, had to. I left my job as an encyclopedia editor when I got pregnant, because there were no options at that time for child care, and I felt as if my life was over. It was, from then on, I was just going to be a housewife, mother, and my ambitions in the world were finished. And then, suddenly, I heard on WBAI, some women talking about this absolutely newborn Women’s Liberation Movement. The ideas that they spouted were ideas that I had secretly longed for, but never articulated, and they gave the telephone number of a meeting. And the address. So, I went to my first meeting, this was before Redstockings had even begun, this was in 1967, and it was a life transforming meeting, because there were all these women who were a decade younger than I, who not only didn’t, well, I had been used to being dismissed from the world as this mother, that was all. I was this housewife. It’s hard, I’m sure, for people to imagine what the culture was like then And, here was this group of women, who not only didn’t dismiss me, but they welcomed me, because I was a living example, this housewife mother, of everything that their theories were talking about. And so, instead of feeling, thereafter, that my life was over, I felt as if my life was just beginning. And, indeed,

it was. That’s great. Farai, do you want to, and also, Farai, I know that you went to, was it an all girls school, from K through 12? Just high school. Just high school. OK, cause I say being in an all women’s college, which I was, it was definitely an experience where I had that turned back on me, and I remember my graduation ceremony, and then being at my boyfriend’s graduation ceremony a week later, where it was, And tomorrow he will go out and do this, and he will go out and do that, and, having never felt the invisibility, until I had the visibility, and wish I had had it so much younger in life. And so, I guess, you didn’t get to high school, either, so. Well, yeah, I mean, I don’t ever remember not being a feminist, because my mother very much is, and she’s a big influence, and my grandmother was, as well, in a very profound way, where she also had to fight too for her ability to be an independent woman. And, my grandfather, in fact, was just very negative about the fact that she wanted to work. And she put herself through college after she’d had six kids, and so she’s someone who just made it happen. And so, I don’t really remember a, sort of, coming into feminism moment. But I do know that, because of who my mother is, and who I am, and just because my family was very embracing of experimentation, I would get, like, a chemistry set, one year, when I was a kid, and then I would get a doll And then I would get an erector set. And then I would get a jewelry making kit, and a basket weaving set up, and all these things, like being able to experiment with all these roles And my sister loved Barbies, but what she really loved was mummifying them and burying them in the backyard. So, somewhere out in the yard, there’s all these mummified Barbies So, and I read a lot of comic books. Barbie’s looking for a new career, I’ve seen the bus ads. Yeah, exactly, Mummy Barbie. But, in high school, I started the debate club, and we would debate all boys schools sometimes, and that didn’t seem weird to me. We had an academic decathlon team, of course, an all girls team, because we were all girls, and that just seemed normal to me. In college, I was part of an improv troupe that was actually very gender balanced, it was, like 50 50, men and women, and it started my freshman year, and I did it all the way to my senior year. So, things like that, I think, the ability to experiment with roles, in play and work, is something that I’ve really gotten from my family legacy, which is one where women have had to constantly fight for agency. There’s many stories, including one where, not the most positive story, but, my grandmother’s grandmother married a man who was much, much older and already had kids. And he was so jealous of her that he wouldn’t let her go get the mail, she had to walk down the path to get the mail, and if she walked down the path, she might see a man, blah blah blah So, she’d gone and gotten the mail one day, and he tried to raise a hand to her and she had a pan full of hot lard, and she looked at him, and she was like, You want some of this, babe? And he was just like, totally straight after that. That was your influence It was just like, in many ways, subtle, and unsubtle, the women in my family have claimed their space. And I feel lucky that my time has been less confrontational in certain ways And I want to say, from the beginning, that our definition of generation is maybe a little out of whack. There’s not such a great range on the panel, and when Marisa got here, she said, I’m so excited to be the young one on the panel, because I’m often with much younger people, where they’re like, What was it like in the 90s? It’s true. I do remember the 90s I came, I think I always identified as a feminist, I have a feminist mom who has subscribed to Ms., and who took me to protests against the Miss California pageant, dressed as me, I think. Thanks, Mom. And she worked at Planned Parenthood when I was very young, so feminism was always a part of my life, and I also come from a very long line of divorcees, so independent women were also ubiquitous, in my family I think that, I was always sort of a weirdly gender essentialist. Growing up, I was always reminding everyone around me about the supremacy of being a girl. Like, I still, on almost a daily basis, feel sorry for men, feel kind

of like, god, I don’t know. I never went through a phase of wanting to be a boy. I always was extremely happy to be a girl, and expressed that in many ways, growing up, to my family And, so, I think, though, for me, that while I always identified as a feminist, I think that it really became personal in my life, probably in early high school. I happened to start high school in 1991, and that also happened to be about the same time that Riot Grrl, which was the, sort of, underground punk feminist movement, was coming to fruition, and so, for me, seeing pictures of girls with, like, halter tops, and slut written across their stomach, felt really different from my mother’s feminism. My mom only wears comfortable shoes, and keeps her stomach covered. Eileen Fisher. And wears quite a bit of Eileen Fisher, and Icelandic sweaters. So, seeing that kind of glittery, girly, young feminism was extremely visceral for me, and I thought, well, I want that And so that, also, was able to both be a personal feminism, and also a nice way of my teenage rebellion scene that fell through. Your example’s so refreshing, because I know in my own example, of coming to feminism, and I know this is true of many people of Alix’s generation, you first had to try out other social justice movements, because taking on gender felt too mediocre, or too self serving, I think there were different ways that people interpret it. But I need you to fight for civil rights in this country, and then it was through that where I was like, Oh, wait, and women are left out. So it’s actually very refreshing that you have been gender essentialist, not seeing yourself. So, yeah, so I ended up having a radio, my high school had America’s largest high school radio station, for some reason And so I had, like, an all girl radio show, and I organized a women’s history celebration at my school, because of course they had never had one. So, yeah, it just kept kind of manifesting itself in my life. And now, I write about it. Well, on that note, when Jennifer and I had to go back and update Manifesta, we were both a little nervous to read a book that was 10 years old, and feared that so many of the examples in there were gonna fall flat, and not be current anymore, and we were a little bit humiliated by how many times

we mentioned Monica Lewinsky and Britney Spears And, though comforted by 10 years past, we actually had to define who Monica Lewinsky was for this generation. And we’re happy the Spice Girls broke up, although now we have Posh Spice, I mean, I’m sort of like, she hasn’t really evolved much in 10 years. And so there was the good and the bad. And I was personally reading, I thought, did we actually really know that at one point? Because, now I can’t, I mean, Jennifer can’t remember, she went to Marisa’s book party, I’m like, I definitely couldn’t write this book today But we had to write a new introduction, where we got to apologize for some of the things we didn’t do so well in the first round. But we end it, by saying that how we come to view feminism, 10 years after writing Manifesta, is to recognize our power to create social justice in our own unique ways. And we really wanted to put the emphasis on what we uniquely can contribute to this movement, and as Jennifer said, the Alice Rossi quote, there was so much attention to, Well, when are you gonna do the big thing? When are you gonna do the massive thing? When are you gonna, and we were sort of focussed on, Well, when are you gonna do the little thing? Because it’s all those little things knitted together, or woven together, that collectively add up to something And, also, we’ve learned, however many years it’s been, hundreds of years in this country, that people are very ambivalent about power sharing with women. Power is defined in a very traditional way, and so we might make more success if we redefine what power is Or reimagine power, in a way that is less hierarchical. And, when Jennifer and I talk to college students who feel eternally disempowered, we always say, Yeah, but you have access to, first of all, what the Internet is, and how to create a weblog, and you need to do all these things, and identifying that for them And their eyes lit up, they’re like, Really? I have power in this movement? And we all do have something unique that we’re contributing, and I’d like to ask all of our panelists, to say what you think your power is, or, how does Jennifer’s five year old say it? Your special ability. What your special ability is. I love that. That is good. And they say it’s also hard to ask this of women, because

women are always so humble, and say, Well, I’m not really. So I hope you can, if that was your instinct, to step out of that, and share your special ability with us. And why don’t we go, Faria, do you want to go first? Sure, I think that, at this point in time, like many people, my special ability is survival Economic survival, and cultural survival Right now I’m starting a new business. 15 years ago I started a blog called Pop and Politics. I was 25 years old, I was just starting to do political commentary on TV for CNN, and my career as a pundit took off, and the blog took off, and it, in some ways kind of overwhelms me, because I had no infrastructure to grow it. And I have, in many ways over the years, as I went through being a TV pundit, network news correspondent, TV host, did Oxygen during start up years, went into digital consulting, went into public radio, but Pop and Politics is something where I’ve always been running to chase this, it was first a no profit, an intentional no profit, with no advertising, and then a nonprofit. It exhausted me. And so, basically I never took a salary, I raised a ton of money for it, and if I had it to do over, I would definitely take a salary, because why not? But at this point in time, after sort of the show that I hosted for NPR was canceled during a wave of budget cuts that were painful, but not personally directed at me, three shows died during the span of one year, which is quite a lot. News and Notes, Bryant Park Project, and Day to Day were all canceled in one year. I was offered different jobs, and I just didn’t want them. And at first, I was sort of like, why am I not taking these jobs? And then I realized I want be an entrepreneur, and I already am. And so I’m raising, I would use the f word, a f load of money to. As, like, feminist is the word? An f load of money to start a dual

bottom line media company, meaning, with a for profit wing, and a nonprofit wing, and I’m taking it very seriously. And I have been hustling and doing consulting, and doing all these things that are not journalism in order to learn how to be a businesswoman, and I’m getting, really, pretty close to doing what I need to do. And that’s just, that’s a huge journey for me. Because I miss being a journalist I miss covering the news, but right now, I need to build infrastructure for media that’s inclusive, and diverse, and where you can tell the truth. Alix. Looks like if anybody wants to make an investment, there’s information later. It’s so wonderful to be here on a panel with one, two, three, four women who grew up as feminists. It’s so amazing to me. And I feel now at 77, well, almost 78, that my power has to do with looking back, that the writing I do can incorporate decades of this possibility that has come to pass. Where all of these women and generations are born able to assert their power, become entrepreneurs, organize, it’s just the most wonderful thing So, in answering your question, I think I want to speak about 40 years ago, when we women had virtually no power. We couldn’t have done that. There were, of course, the occasional exceptions, who were very annoying, because they said, Well, I could do it, why can’t you? But for the most part, women didn’t have power then, and what was so wonderful about the birth of this feminist movement, and particularly Redstockings, was that when you walked out your door in the morning, everything remained to be done. You couldn’t take a step that didn’t provoke you to want to make change The power that we had then was being able to see everything as connected. People now have many different projects, all, I’m talking about feminism, there’s such a huge array, and that’s the most wonderful thing, but the fact is that when we had nothing and had as a future everything to change, not one thing to change or a dozen things to change but everything to change the consciousness of an entire society, actually world, because it became a global movement. That was the most empowering thing I can ever experience, to be able to think, It’s up to you to change the world. So, I’m just very grateful, again, that I was born when I was into a movement that was just beginning. I think there was, just

to add and I wasn’t there in 1967, but I think there was some power in being an outsider that we’ve sort of lost today because it was new and nuanced. So that even though it felt so empowering, there was a power that came from this empowerment. And similarly what we hear, and I’m sure many of us in this room hear it, but when Jennifer and I are on campuses, it’s not that people don’t believe in the values of feminism. But they’re sort of kind of, Yeah, what do you want me to do? Because they take many steps before they see it, and then they need someone to point out to them, Oh, but did you think about this? Why are 80 percent of the tenured faculty male and 20 percent female? But, they don’t see that because they see the entire faculty looking more diverse. So, I think there is also the power in being able to have it so exposed to you, what was wrong or that non power sharing existed. I think it’s ironic that this person on the panel is saying this, but I think it’s nostalgia. I have this seemingly unlimited capacity for nostalgia, but I think that I’ve done a good job of being productive with it I hope that other people will take a cue and things like the Spice Girls or Alanis Morissette or Vita Girl. Those things all need to be written into history, and I think so much of that is up to us to do. I’ve always been able to reconcile my voracious, consuming pop culture by trying to parse it out and to write about it. So, I think that that’s a powerful thing. It’s all too easy to be drawn to culture and to feel like you should be doing political organizing or something like that. I think that the more that we see feminism in our culture in a really superficial way, you see where culture needs to change along with politics. I look at somebody like Sarah Palin which is like the rhetoric of feminism without any of the substance. To

me, that’s where culture needs to change, and we can’t just elect a woman. That’s not enough. But, yeah, it’s nostalgia in feeling OK about that nostalgia and acting on it and writing your own history and not waiting for other people to do it. The way you guys did Manifesta was so incredibly inspiring to me Well, I think what you’re saying, it’s not nostalgia to the point of living in the past It’s nostalgia to the point of. Although I do like to live in the past. How do we move forward? I’m not opposed to that. But, you like living in the near past. You’re not a Victorianist. You’re like a. I went through a very intense Victorian phase. I honestly did. I subscribe to Victorian, all the magazines Yeah, I know. It’s so embarrassing. True secrets of the feminist. Yes, yes. I want you to know there was a study years ago, and I was reading the study because I was helping Gloria Steinem with her book, Revolution from Within. It said that the more education women had, the lower their self esteem. And it’s because they were less likely to see themselves included in the text, the higher you got up that chain, the less likely women’s stories and examples were to be there, and I see that when we travel to high schools and colleges still, that women’s history, and non white people’s history, is still so, it really is in the margins. Or, it’s still sort of the class that not everybody has to take, and you actually have to do it on top of your regular course load. And, it still has not done a good job of being insurgent to the curriculum, which is why some people might say that the Sackler Center for Feminist Art, But why do you really need to put that there? You need to because it’s not yet completely in the rest of history. You just were alluding to this a little bit, both Alix and Marisa, in your answers, the sort of, generations, and how we can sometimes be too dependent on feminism in another generation, and, conversely, maybe too dismissive of how ideas that were put into place years ago have manifested, maybe not in the way that we always wanted them to. The writing of slut across your belly is maybe, for somebody, Gasp! Why are they

doing that? But it’s fun for me to be on a panel that’s labeled generational, essentially, generational feminism, and not have it be so tense. Because a lot of times when we talk about intergenerational feminism, we’re more often talking about the negative aspects of that, and how it’s manifesting negatively And I interpret that as, two sources to that problem. One, I think that young people are sometimes scared about either sounding dismissive or scared about taking on that power, and that responsibility, and that’s intimidating And conversely, I think, it’s very threatening for some older women to have younger women and younger men expressing feminism in ways that they weren’t able to. And that feels intimidating. And also makes them feel vulnerable And so, I don’t know, I mean, Alix, you represent, more clearly, one generation on the panel, but I don’t want you to feel like you have to exclusively talk about that. I know. I’m happy to. But why do you think, from, and your new book is sort of going in that direction, but why do you think older women have a hard time appreciating the contribution that younger women are making? Or seeing it? You’ve got me. I have no idea. I appreciate the contribution of younger women so much, I mean, to me, it’s the fulfillment of a lifetime, of effort, to, that we actually, what we did all those decades ago bore fruit, and I’m grateful for every single manifestation of younger women’s feminism. It thrills me. So, you’re asking the wrong person. And it really irritates me no end to hear feminists of my generation grumbling that the younger women aren’t the way we were. Well, thank god, they’re not the way you were! I mean, life goes on, you’re doing fabulous work. It is depressing, also, to note that, on the campuses, the work of women isn’t integrated, and, I mean, all the things that are still left to be done, which is, I suppose, in a sense, still everything in one mode or another. That’s depressing, but that’s not what’s wrong, isn’t the fault of young or old feminists, it’s the fault of the other people who aren’t feminists And I’m sure, because we’ve been in these same rooms together, where we’ll be in a room, sort of straddling those generations, and trying to be, in some ways, the translator, and when you’re in that role of translating

between the generations, what are you personally offering? Well, I’m starting a new book about millennial generation politics. And people define millennial in different ways. But, sort of at the lowest end people usually use, it’s around 18, and the highest end is, like, 33, and some people define it different ways But, I got contacted by an organization, not a women’s organization, to be on a sort of youth panel, I’m 40 years old. I am writing about millennials, and if you want me to be on this panel, I’ll talk about my work. But because I started doing media, I started doing television when I was 25, I think some people still think I’m 25, and I think that the best thing, and we have all talked about it, the most important thing you can do is stop pretending to be what people need you to be. If somebody needs you to be the young person, be clear that you’re not the young person, if you’re not that person, and know who those people are, have people you can recommend. So, I was like, I’m happy to be on this panel as a researcher or to recommend some other people to you. And don’t get overly invested in your own relevance. That’s important. Marisa, do you have anything to add? As the young person? As the young person? I think that sometimes there’s a language barrier, or the talking points are different, and I think that. Did you have somebody from another generation, from an older generation, talk to you about your books? And say, I learned something, thank you for adding clarity, I wasn’t sure why people liked Sassy in the first place Yeah, to a certain extent. Definitely. I think that people are, people are always pleasantly surprising me, that are older, with their curiosity for it, and their interest. Even my mom showed up to my reading with slut written across her stomach, under her shirt, but that was her, she was trying to bridge the gap for me and show her support. Some moms bake cookies, that’s not Allison. And you wore an Icelandic sweater, and your comfortable shoes. No, I actually wore something that she told me she thought was too racy. Like what? It showed some bra, but, anyway. But I think that now there’s, I see some of the generational pull and push when I look at some of the discourse online. I think that, we were talking about this before the panel, it’s so much of maybe, the Fourth Wave, whenever that is coming, whoever that will be, will definitely have something to do with the Internet, surely. And I see it on, like, listservers that I’m on, where I feel like there’s older feminists who are sometimes shocked or bewildered by the actions and rhetoric of younger feminists, particularly vis a vis, like, the way that

they use the Internet, and the way that they live their lives, which is certainly not specifically, a feminist problem. It seems to be a real generational problem, but I think that trying to sort of bridge those divides, is going to be a challenge for us. And I think it’s a really important one. I want older feminists to harness the power of the Internet, and I want younger feminists to be able to explain why they’re taking pictures of themselves, with their friends, or why they’re blogging about their abortions. When Jennifer and I wrote Manifesta, we practically put the Internet in quotes. It’s like, It’s probably not going to be around that long. Early news. I want to say one thing, that what Marisa said reminded me of, and that is, there’s this, when you said about your mom, kinda disapproving that you had some bra showing. Well, somehow, the parents generation is always assumed to be sexless, and prudish, but I just want to remind you that the feminists of the Second Wave were the ones who didn’t even wear any bras, and let our breasts flop around, on purpose, and we demanded abortion rights, which brought out into the public discourse, talk about sex, we wanted sex. Sex, sex, sex. Now, there were some feminists of my generation who were against pornography, and who were kind of puritanical. But there was a tremendous number of us who objected to that and who wanted to have talk about sex, and equal sex. We wanted to be able to go and get sex whenever we wanted, we wanted to do away with the double standard. We wanted to be able to talk about and use birth control. I’m just wanting to say that, just because we’re of a parental generation, doesn’t mean that we are, or ever were, puritanical. I agree with that. I’m just gonna ask one more question of our panel, and then we’d love to hear from everybody in the audience, for people that want to speak up. But the, one of the most successful chapters in this book is called The Dinner Party. And we were inspired to write that chapter, in part, because of Judy Chicago’s wonderful piece, and her ability in that piece to bring together, women in history, as we were talking, who otherwise don’t get to come together in history books the way men do. There’s not that story being told, there, it has to be an alternative story. And we also were inspired to write the Dinner Party chapter. Had the Sackler Center only been around then, we could’ve been even more inspired. We were inspired to write it because, for so many people, feminism seemed to be this extracurricular pursuit It was something you did at a NOW meeting,

or when you read Ms. Magazine, or something at the Y, or a lecture like this. And then it left people confused when they left those meetings, and those designated feminist spaces, of how to practice feminism, in their everyday lives, in more mundane ways. And so, The Dinner Party was meant to inspire people, by bringing people together and documenting something that we had done, which is to have dinner parties over years of, and using them as an excuse to just meet women that we wanted to meet. And bring them together, and to have conversations about fear, and what we’re scared of, and what we’re nervous about, and doing that in a relatively safe setting. So, being inspired by, being so close to The Dinner Party, what are the ways in all of your lives, that you more mundanely practice feminism? When you walk out the door, and it’s not so obvious, what are the ways you do, besides wearing your comfortable shoes, or writing slut across your belly, that make you, what are the feminist decisions that you make? I’m like, you don’t have to go first. I’ll just say for myself, I mean, besides sort of strategically doing these dinner parties, I have little kids, and little kids give you many great moments, where the neighborhood girl comes over and she’ll say, Well, I’m gonna be the cheerleader, cause I’m a girl, so I’m not gonna play basketball. And I’m like, not only do I say, Girls can be basketball players, I get out the book. And I say, look, here’s the New York Liberty, look, there are girls playing, and they’re professional, and they get paid. And so, there’s things that I do like that. And then there are other deliberate things that I do, and I can downright be an, you used the F word and the B word, where, if I just feel like I have shuttled the kids back and forth to school one too many times, I will just say to Peter, I’m not gonna do it today. And when my kids were little, and they would cry, Mommy, Mommy, and still today, I won’t go. Because not only do I want them to not be overly dependent on me as the caregiver, but I don’t want them to not see their father in that role as the caregiver. And so a lot of what I do is not do stuff, and not have things expected of me. I was just thinking, listening to Amy, I relate to that a lot, and one of the things, I think, the most important thing, I think, I do now is just, when people younger, people are, they’re usually younger than me, but if anyone reaches out to me by email, or calls, or needs me somewhere, and asks for something, if I can provide it, I do. And I always follow up, because it’s such a small thing, but it may, I know that when I first moved to New York, the fact that I could call you, or, I made these alliances with feminists that were inspiring to me, or just made me feel less alone, made all the difference, in terms of making me feel like I was powerful, and could make change Alix, you want to? Yeah, can I use my time

to tell a story by Judy Chicago and the Dinner Party? Yeah. Well, one of the early things I did as a feminist, when I became a feminist, was I decided to stop giving couples dinner parties for my husband and his business associates And I said, no more. And I, for about six or so years, I did not have a single dinner party. Everything was couples then, before the movement entered my life. And then Judy Chicago was coming to town to present The Dinner Party, it was it’s first opening, and I broke my rule, and I had a dinner party for Judy and there were ten of us, because my table could seat ten. And she was a friend of mine. Well, in those days, all of us knew each other, I mean, in the very beginning, the movement was so small that we all just made all these connections together. So, Judy and nine others, no, Judy and eight others, and I, all sat down to this table together, and it was a huge change in my life, again, because it meant I was now free to have dinner parties whenever I wanted, just with my women friends. I mean, I just think that right now, one of the things that I do that goes back to the translation role, is that I think that there’s a lot of intersectional drama between people of different races, people of different genders, people of different sexual orientations To the extent that I can, I’m trying to observe and inspire dialogue. And that’s, really, what the next book I’m working on is, and I think that that is something feminist, where you can observe how people act. And not constantly react in a negative way to other people’s negativity. I got into an argument with a cab driver last night, and I was disappointed in myself, because, it’s like, it was so avoidable He was, yeah, exactly. Exactly. He was just gonna be an annoying guy, and there was no point in me going there. But I see right now, a lot of times, when I think of Proposition 8, I was living in California during Proposition 8, and it was just a disaster. I mean, it was just such a disaster. I was at this, this thing called the Ballot Brunch, where a friend of mine hosts this brunch before any election where there are ballot initiatives and everyone has to study the ballot initiatives, and present recommendations. And so, as we were discussing Proposition 8, it was two white gay men and three heterosexual women, including me, and I was the only black woman, it was like a small little cluster of us, and we were all, like, Yeah, Prop. 8 is gonna pass, in part, because there’s been no coalition building, people who are against Prop. 8 have not been trying to really market to communities of color, we just saw the train wreck happening And then it happened, and people are still mad at it. And so, I think that one thing that needs to happen, it’s just like, is some traffic copping of different agendas, based on people’s identity. Because I think, the

good thing is that you can be whoever you want, but, the bad thing is, if you don’t communicate, then you can cancel out each other’s ability to make social change. And I think that right now, things are just too serious, for us to be for no reason, across different identity based lines. And so we need to pull it together, and so, right now, I’m watching, and then I hope to, play a constructive role at some point. I have a fair amount of teenage friends, for somebody my age, whether they’re friends from the Internet or whatever, and I take a great amount of pride in trying to curate the cultural and political choices in their lives, because they’re young, and so impressionable. And so, I do like to send them Manifesta, and old copies of Sassy, and everything that, Winona Ryder movies, and everything that shaped me so much when I was a teenager. But I also really loved hearing about their love lives, or, like, things that annoy them at school, and, and trying to plant as many feminist seeds, encouraging to call themselves feminists. One friend read my book, and then tried to get a feminist club started at her school the next day, which was so amazing to me. Her principal said no, but that’s a whole other story. And then, I also think, especially amongst writers in New York, who are women, there’s so much competition. I think the first instinct is often to see one woman do well, and to think that there’s no opportunity for you or something, and I really make an effort in my life to have a network of female writer friends, that are very real relationships, and to help each other, and to be genuinely proud of each other, and to realize that one person’s success is not gonna take away from yours. Just, hopefully, as an example, that that will catch on, because that’s something that bums me out to no end, that you see again and again women picking on women in the media, so. The movie thing, I just had dinner with a friend, and she got a Netflix subscription for three high school women that she’s friends with, and sends them movies, and then she, and then they can send her movies. And I was. That’s really good,

yeah. That’s such a great way to communicate, it’s like a modern day version of a book club Yeah,. Definitely. Even easier. So now, we’d love to hear from the audience, there are microphones on either side, if you are feeling lazy, or you’re feeling too trapped, we can just repeat your question. Hi, something came up, I’m really interested, because it’s a intergenerational group of women, about, Alix brought out with, puritanical view and sexuality and pornography. And I was informed my analysis of pornography came from Dworkin, and Susan Griffin’s Pornography and Silence, so I just didn’t, I was wondering about having it stay in the air, that the analysis of being concerned about how women are portrayed in pornography is not coming under the rubric of puritanical, and I was wondering to see what people would say about that. The first thing it makes me think of is how the seemingly competing tensions in that formulation is, do we care about the fact that there’s violence against women, and then does that, does dealing with that anxiety, or dealing with eradicating that injustice, do we have to give up freedom, certain freedoms in order to do so? And that’s been the conflict the whole time. I think the way it’s being the really painful debate that’s going on right now, is about sex work versus sex trafficking, and people talking about sex can be work, that a woman chooses, and it should be legalized and decriminalized, and there should be all these ways to have it be a form of expression and way of making money, versus, no we have to absolutely eradicate it because the potential for abuse has been just proven over and over to be kind of overwhelming, that’s where we’re at right now. So, I think it’s, I think the conversation has changed a little bit from being about pornography, and I know that that was an unbelievably painful split and debate in the 80s for activists, and I think we’re seeing it again right now, with people who are working around sex work versus sex trafficking. I think people thought, by changing the language, to being about sex trafficking, it would get them out of that debate, and sort of, that, what seemed like an intractable place, but it’s right back where it was. And I think it is really hard, I and, to Farai’s point about, kind of, being a traffic director, is, there are a lot of otherwise allies out there who aren’t able to come together and the consequence is gonna be that everybody loses. And yet I understand why they can’t come together, because they only see the other person’s position as a total utter compromise, and not something they can support. I mean, there are wonderful groups out there, and actually, you did a wonderful panel at Sackler about a year ago, on sex trafficking. But Dorchen Liedholdt, who’s at the Sanctuary for Families, has done a lot on this issue, and Equality Now, has done a lot, there’s other sort of, more localized groups. There’s a great film out now, called The Playground Project, and it’s about sex trafficking within the borders of the United States. And I think it’s such an arresting film, because, we’re more sympathetic when we see the Southeast Asian young girl, woman, we’re not quite sure, than it is to see the white 16 year old from Kansas. And we’re like, Wait, you chose that? You didn’t choose that? Where’s the, it calls into, so there’s a lot out there right now. And there was that movie, Trade, that was a more popular, so there’s a lot out there, and hopefully, that, by having those cultural moments, and things to hold onto, we can send them to our 16 year old friends on Netflix, we can have more of these conversations, and try to get past the intractable

place. Yeah, I think as far as pornography goes, I think that pornography, and so many other things that are related to sex acts and how we view them, really have to do with agency. And to me, that’s always the standard, is, does a woman have agency? Because I have friends who were in the fetish community, and their form of agency involves doing things that other people would consider humiliating, painful, oppressive. But, it is a form of their sexual expression. And, although I don’t choose the same expression, I appreciate that it is, for them, it’s their choice. And so, I think all of us have different reasons that we do different things, but I think at the same time, ultimately, when I think about the conversation, I think about agency. Do you have agency, in this decision. And also, is it an informed consent. Because you can consent to things verbally, or even on paper, and it’s not informed consent. So, I think, to me, when you think about issues like pornography, sex work, anything controversial, I always think of, what’s the level of informed consent, what’s the level of agency of the players involved? Hi, thanks. This is an amazing panel, and it was amazing to hear. I love hearing about the different milieu over decades, like, Alix, your stories about going to the meeting And then having the dinner party, are so wonderful, and then of course Marisa and I, pretty much share a milieu, we’re the same age and came up through most of the same cultural forces, and what I’m interested in that was harder to get at in this panel, because Marisa is the young one, is the Right Now aspect of the title, right? And that’s something that, I think probably Amy and Jennifer and Marisa, especially, would be really well equipped to talk about, because of either your speaking tours, or, Marisa, your extensive online networks We know that, compared to my and Marisa’s generation, the number of young women calling themselves feminists, continues to drop, right? Although, I talk with my friends who teach It’s actually, statistically, up. It’s up? Really? It’s up. And it’s always been up And younger people are more likely, the age range of 18 to 24, are more likely to identify as feminist than any other. And more likely, now, than the same age group 10, 20 years ago? 10, 20 years ago. OK. So, already. This is, there are many where people now, who, I mean, it’s also, too, that they ask the question of men and women, now? And they used to only ask it of women. So that’s some of it, although I think that’s, a huge percentage, but. I guess my question is just precisely about that. Like, what’s going on, feminist wise, with, like, the actual youngest people, with people who are in high school and college and around that age now. And how is the Internet affecting that? That’s my question. It’s interesting, too, with the whole concept of Right Now, because, of course, we’re all still living, so we’re part of right now, everyone in this room is part of right now, but it’s true that it does, you do sort of think, like, What about the kids who are born in 1995? What are they doing? And, I think, one of the things they’re doing that’s really important, is around abortion rights, reproductive justice in general. So, pregnancy decisions, and supporting all decisions. And one thing that I’m particularly excited about lately, is our projects, like the Doula Project, so these are women who are trained to attend births, but they also attend abortions, and they also attend adoptions So, they are supporting, they think that every pregnancy decision deserves support. To me,

that’s a really important exciting feminist thing that younger people are pioneering And Amy and I, when we do abortion related, like screenings of an abortion film and do discussions specifically around abortion, we have been seeing tons of younger women and men come in who are from the birth community, really trying to make that link between abortion and birth. All those pregancy decisions as being crucial, and truly linked. And then, similar to that, a much broader, or, more complicated, more nuanced understanding of what abortion, having a baby, or raising kids, or placing a child in adoption, of what those decisions might mean in an individual’s life And a lot more respect for how diverse, and how everybody’s circumstances are gonna dictate what that experience is, and not, really not using words like pro choice or pro life very much. Or saying things like, I am a feminist, but I am also pro life, and then going on to define what that means. And it’s typically not, And I bomb abortion clinics. It’s usually, like, And I believe that it is a life, and it’s taking a life and here’s how I practice my feminism to support that value system without taking away another woman’s opportunity to make decisions, meaningful decisions, about her life. I think trans issues will be really prominent in future feminist discourse, the Fourth Wave, whatever, however it’s going to play out. I think that we’ve already seen some bits of how it’s impacting all female colleges and I think in the way that when I was in high school, there was starting to be, it was becoming more common, maybe for teenagers to come out, and for gay straight alliances on high school campusses. I think we’re going to start seeing how trans populations will sort of change and get younger, and in high schools. I think that that’s something that will affect feminism for the next generation a lot. I won’t go into too much detail, but a friend of a friend, there’s basically a 10 year old girl who is already living as a boy, and very firm in her gender identity, and I think one of the things that that raises is just questions for parents. I’m not a parent, you two are parents, and I just think of how parents now, I mean, that’s a lot to process How you choose to, when your child has a gender identity that other people may not support, how do you, as a parent, navigate that? I mean, it’s nothing profound that I’m saying here, but it just strikes me that that’s a big burden. And you want to have, luckily she does have feminist parents, both her father and mother. But it’s just one of those modern challenges, that I think, I think about, like, in an intergenerational sense, every generation of parents also has to think about how they do and don’t critique the behavior of the children they’re raising. And sometimes there’s not easy answers to how you try to guide a child whose experiences are very different from yours. And I do think, though, that gender fluidity, just in general, is much more, I mean, we certainly see the moments when it’s not allowed, and it’s prohibited, but it’s much more acceptable. And you even see it, like, in snowboarding, I mean, I hate that Navyulum Vicks is, you’ve the female heat, and the male, because when snowboarding emerged as a sport, it was, you couldn’t tell the gender of the person. It was a sport that was just out there and available, and I think young people grew up watching that. I will see kids that put on tutus one day, and then they put the tutu on, and they push the dump truck. And I think that you just see that from a young age, and you see people being OK with that. I think, what they’re OK with is when both things are happening. I think it’s harder sometimes when there’s that sense of transitioning or abandoning, and you see it among sexuality, too. Early on, you can already hear kids being, like, Is that your girlfriend? Is that your boyfriend? And, even though there’s definitely still danger, and discomfort with same sex relationships, it’s much more likely that kids see that as something open to them. The other thing that I see with a lot of younger people, is, and this is, Jennifer and I host a, it’s a feminist summer camp in New York City, but we hosted feminist winter term, where we bring students from all different colleges, is more and more what I was, with years ago, is people, sort of, I’m a women’s studies major, and I’m a philosophy major, and I’m an art major. And bringing their feminist politics to these other disciplines, and starting from a really young age, and being an artist, but within the context of that, trying to explore what it means to be a female artist, and how to be a feminist, and picking up on that at a very young age You said, a young woman was unsuccessful in starting a feminist club at her high school, but we see tons of young people that are starting feminist clubs in high schools, and they’re often around things having to do with Women’s History Month, or we want to do AIDS Awareness Day, or we want to celebrate National Coming Out Day, they’re often linked to some sort of theme. And then, the other thing we’re seeing, which is, I think, more common, we host this, we go to this program every year that Barnard College does, and these 40, 50 students are just stellar, and they’ve already raised, like, 40,000 dollars for cancer research, and they’ve already painted a children’s wing of a hospital. But they’re just starting to have that moment, and these are high school juniors and seniors, of, Oh, that’s great that we raised 40,000 dollars for cancer, but what about women cancers, specifically? You can see the light bulb starting to go off, they have the instincts toward social justice, but not yet the gender awareness around it, and they’re starting to get that I promised this woman next, and then. Thank you so much, so much of what you said has been very thought provoking and has brought up a couple of interesting points. One was, Amy, the question that you asked about competition among women. I find that one trick that I have used, and it’s not a trick, it’s truly heartfelt, is to complement my students who, how do you say, outgrow me. If they have done something exceptional that I myself have not done, or even thought of, I do say, Thank you so very much, I’m so glad that I was a part of that process. And I do expect you to excel me in many ways. And I’m so very grateful to have been a part of you moving forward in ways that I will not. So, but, I guess that brought up to me, that I too was brought up in a culture of men competing, as opposed to completing. And, it’s for me to change that, that women who do outgrow me in certain ways are complementing my contribution Do you find, do you find that when you take the risk of saying that, that then somebody says, Oh, and thank you. You get more information? Not that you’re fishing for it, but do you get it? Well, I don’t get it verbally, but I see them relax and light up, and I see them so very grateful that I can take a back seat, even though I look like I’m in the front seat, I’m not. I’m in the front seat of what I’ve already accomplished. But I’m in the back seat of what they are yet to accomplish. And their whole attitude lights up, and that to me is their thank you. Not like, verbally, they’re able even to put it into words, they’re so happy I’ve said it. My question, because I’ve been dealing with this very harshly lately, is that I came from a background of art and healing and spirituality, where, not to be immodest, but I was, how do you say, thought of an exceptionally lovely woman. Lovely, and funny, and spiritual, and kind. And yet, those things were often, how do you say, connected with weakness. I haven’t changed completely, those things are still there, but I certainly have become more, how do you say, assertive, and clearer, and I don’t take crap when it’s put out at me in a rather obvious manner, and I, yet, still am around a lot of women who are not equal to the men in power, money, and prestige, that they are working with And I find myself, of course, needless to say, having to move on. But now that I’m in a position of having shifted my identity, into one that is, perhaps, stronger, a lot of attention is often viewed toward me of, well, am I, or am I on my way to being a dyke, or a transsexual, or otherwise generally much more obnoxious than I used to be. So, I guess, this is something that all of us have to deal with, this level of seriousness. The whole Second Wave stuff, and that totally taught me, but I’m a person who’s like, so fixated on culture, and I write about Holly and Marisa, you’re awesome. And I feel like now, 10 years after I’ve kind of, like, left institutions even though I’ve kind of dabbled in it, back and forth, I feel like once I discovered how to mesh my feminism with my kind of pop culture freakness, then I understood my contribution to feminism. Because I couldn’t do the whole institutional stuff anymore, just couldn’t do it, I was exhausted by people who were like, 20 years older than me, who had so much energy, and I was just, like, I have to take a nap. So, I just wanted to acknowledge, like, figuring out your little bit, and that’s OK, and how all our little bits are what makes it interesting, and redefines feminism, and now, that I’m writing about Hollywood and stuff, the most interesting people are the high school students, and the men who want to write about feminism in Hollywood, and they’re like, Why didn’t a woman win an Oscar for 82 years? and I’m, like, Because buh buh buh buh buh, and they’re like, Oh. And it’s not like, me, defining it, but it’s empowering people to ask the questions. So, I don’t know if I actually have a question, but the point I’m trying to get you guys to illuminate is, kind of, how the different pieces, like, sports has come into the foray now, in terms of redefining feminism and pop culture and music and things like that, in ways that weren’t necessarily acceptable earlier, because it was always about, like, dire, important, emergency issues, which are still vital now, but it’s kind of broadening the scope of feminism, so if you guys can talk about that. Well, I think, Melissa, that I feel like, there’s just this idea that we don’t just, we’re not just simply political creatures, we’re not bifurcated that way And we exist in culture, and we’re interested in TV, and the world around us, and we are also interested in politics, and the ways in which power is constructed in wars, and we actually don’t have to choose. And I think that that is what the daughters and sons of Second Wave feminism have been able to express a little bit more, spread that news a little bit more, or have jobs in culture where you’re the head writer, you’re Tina Fey and you’re the head writer of Saturday Night Live, or you create this incredible TV show that really expresses Third Wave feminism, because we grew up with a lot of things having already been changed. And there are moments when it is a little bit less dire. And it’s really important to attack the culture, too, not only because we need to see the visions of ourselves, as Amy was saying, all over the canon, all over the culture, but also because we need to keep archiving the work that women are doing. That’s why it’s so crucial that the feminists, that The Dinner Party was finally given a permanent home. Work that women do, whether it’s in songwriting, or creating an installation, or writing books, tends to go away. And, I mean, it’s important that the representatives from the feminist press are here, because that’s the same thing, it’s finally archiving women’s contributions to the world. And, so, I think if you’re doing it about pop culture, you’re doing really important work. And it’s political work. I’m just gonna jump to the questioners, because we don’t have much time left, so I’ll go to you, and then over there, and then you. I know you guys addressed your special abilities, specifically, but what I wanted to know, as was mentioned, that you are, the redefinitions of power, because I thought that was interesting, and also, how would a college student, like me, in New York, be active in feminism? I

know it’s highly personal, but maybe some ideas about the redefinitions of power, and how to be active in the City of New York Well, I sort of add on Melissa’s special ability Because I do think that somebody’s, and this is related to power, some people are powerful working in institutions. Some people’s power is managing an institution, and making that institution make sense, and other people’s power is working on the outside of that institution, and I think the problem with power is that we see one thing as more powerful than the other. So those of us who don’t have that executive director title, are always a little bit, like, What do I do again?, and it’s because we’re still trying to fit ourselves into a narrow definition, but with more and more of us that have realized that what we uniquely contribute is the ability to make up our own careers, and to stand in a different place Hopefully we’re giving that example to other people who can say, Oh, wait, there’s not this neat job for me, but maybe I’ll do that two days a week, and I’ll do this two days a week, and so, if that’s something that speaks to you, I think being able to harness where you feel like you’re gonna be the most effective Yeah, I think that there are a lot of different ways to express feminism, and I think the most important thing for me as a person has been this sense of beginner’s mind and lifelong learning. And college is a great place to be someone who’s learning, because you’re learning on an interpersonal level, you’re learning about power dynamics, you’re learning from books and lectures and all this stuff, but I think that one thing that you can do as a feminist, is to observe power and understand the history of power. And, university bylaws, university practices, like hiring practices, the way that universities, I mean, universities are power structures, I mean, incredible power structures that anchor large parts of this society. And, one of the things that you can do is just observe what’s going on at your university, and have a sense of how the money that you’re contributing to the system of the university is being spent. I remember in college we had protests over women being excluded from these clubs, these things called finals clubs, and then protests over South Africa, and all of them had to do with, on some level, with university policy. About private space, public space, university dollars, I mean, it’s a great thing to observe, I think Over here. OK. Hi, I just wanted to congratulate the panel, we’re in such a wonderful place, and I also wanted to say, I saw your film, I Had an Abortion, and I loved it. And I think that one of the reasons I loved it is, you can’t have an abortion on network TV and not be sorry. So just talking about it, as one of your people said. And so, I teach here and every little girl loves The Dinner Party, and sometimes, they’ve seen it before I even take my classes there, so this is just a wonderful place to be. But I came from Planned Parenthood this morning, and speaking of train wrecks, I just want to say, we were just talking about Proposition 8 earlier, I just want to mention, the person’s name is Stupak in Health Care Reform. There are petitions to sign, put out by Planned Parenthood, this is going on this weekend. One of the interesting things I’m doing is investigating crisis pregnancy centers, and I hope there’s some journalists out here that can do it, and write about it. And, also, but what I wanted to do, since I’m in so many feminist organizations with the younger women, and you’ve talked about this a lot, is the difference of generations I’m seeing is the Internet. Like, I am on email all day, signing petitions. But then I’m also, actually, escorting people to Planned Parenthood and they are going past some stuff that you would not believe, is not a hate crime. For a doctor to be shot in his church, and it not be a hate crime So, I keep saying to the kids, like, we’ll have meetings, and everybody’s texting during the meetings, and I’m just wondering how we can sort of bridge that sort of cultural, I mean, I feel like an old lady, because I feel like saying to younger women, well, that’s rude, you’re texting right now, what I mean? I’m starting to feel like my mom. So I wondering if we can talk about the Internet and stuff Well, I definitely don’t know if there’s anything that we can say that will get texting etiquette standardized amongst teenagers or college students. I’m certainly guilty of it myself from time to time. I do think that the Internet can be a really powerful force, not just for things like signing petitions but for building a feminist community. I think a lot about how being a teenage feminist used to be sort of, unless you were lucky, a pretty lonely thing to grow up as. And now, it really doesn’t have to be because you can find people who are just like you online, and you can live a life in some ways with online friends and colleagues and have this really supportive cohort that you might not have in your family or at school or in your town. And so, I think that we need to be not so judgmental of people, particularly young people who are increasingly living their lives online because I think it can be a really powerful way to live. They can be texting about stupid things. I’m not that much of an optimist. I don’t think they probably were, but they potentially could be. I do think that it can be a really powerful tool, and it’s something that we might not all understand, particularly those of us who grew up before the Internet. But, I think it’s something that is inevitable and important And I think it’s more our job to adapt versus their job to go to our ways. Of course, the importance of activism in real life and showing up to things can be underscored. It sounds like you’re doing very important work, talking to them about that, but it’s a compromise Is it OK if I go over here to get this question? I didn’t see this one. Hi. I must tell you how thrilling it is to hear the words, Fourth Wave. And my question is probably not going to have time here for an answer, but I’d like to get it on somebody’s agenda in the future As a strategy for the Fourth Wave, what do you see the role of the male? And can we encourage people more male to admit to being feminists and to become spokespersons or role models or some such thing? I think in the Fourth Wave you’re already seeing this in the Third Wave. I think there’s going to be no conflict for a guy to call himself a feminist. He won’t be applauded for it. He won’t be seen as very unique, and he’s not personally going to feel so exposed by doing it. Even in just Amy’s and my travels, we never had an event where there weren’t men, and this is hundreds of events now. So, I think men see themselves as part of this, and in the same way that Amy and I and everyone on this panel was raised with feminism in the water and all these important changes from this Second Wave of women’s liberation Young men were raised in that exact same environment They were raised by single moms who gave them a Barbie and all that. They were raised with the same influences, the free to be you and me generation. You see it in how unneurotically men claim feminism as an identity for themselves And I think the next step and this is something that Amy talks about a lot is really expressing feminism as a man on your own behalf. So, not just as an ally to a woman, but what would it mean? How would it improve your life and the life of society to be a feminist? And what’s your special ability going to be and your contribution? Because it relates to the question about power because I think historically men have had the power, but I think we’ve seen in this generation that men have been as abused by that power as women have and specifically some men who don’t conform to traditional masculinity. And so, I think they’re becoming invested in changing the definition of power, too. Hopefully, that can be even more realized in this generation. That said, I just wanted this out. I’ve been in a couple of meetings where this has come up, and I used my Ask Amy as a little radar. When something comes up so many times, you’re like, oh. And is it so much the girl positiveness that has happened over the last couple of years is being used to put boys in a state of crisis? And, you see it with colleges. Most colleges, it’s 60 percent women, and then, how it’s playing out is at the high school level, and I was just meeting among some of the very elite private schools on the Upper East Side of New York, and they were all saying, Boys, you have to work, girls are taking your spots away. You have to, and, similarly, what we see at college campuses is people saying, Boys, you have to lose your wrestling program because we needed to keep the girls’ volleyball program. But the way Title IX is, it’s not tit for tat, it’s a dollar amount. And it’s like, no, no, no. The reason you had to lose the boys’ wrestling is to preserve the boys’ football. It’s not the girls’ gymnastics or the girls’ volleyball. But there’s a lot, I think, in the rhetoric right now, that is trying to say to men, women have taken away your power, but it’s in these very subtle ways of getting internships for college, and getting job potential. And now girls are, so, I think there’s something a little dangerous out there, too, that we need to pay attention to. And you very generously so. I was actually just wanting to ask a question about sort of, young women and their sexual expression, because you talked a little bit you touched on the idea about sex work, and the idea of agency in the pornography industry, and the split about approval disapproval with pornography, and Second Wave feminism. But I’m just curious as someone who works with teenagers, and someone who goes on the Internet a lot, I mean, there’s I’m just wondering, I feel like I haven’t, like, I read Female Chauvinist Pigs when it came out, like five years ago, whatever, and like, I haven’t seen a lot of sophisticated dialogue, in academia about how to, sort of, deal with Internet culture and the way that women are self representing their sexuality, and using sexually empowered, but where does that line get flipped around to where, it’s, in an insidious way, sort of disempowering, or their agency really isn’t there? Because, there are entire porn websites that just draw on MySpace and Facebook for their pictures of underage girls. And it’s like, I don’t want to speak to, and there is a lot of slippage about whether or not consent age really represents where our agency can be, and I don’t want to speak to that, the legal definitions are entirely where these ideas should come from, but I’m just not sure what feminism has to offer in terms of a critique of women self representing, and it may be not having anything to do with agency, always, or where that line can be drawn, and how that can be floored First of all, you can just be honest in the dialogue, and say, you may represent yourself one way, and other people will see it a completely different way. You may be standing against a wall, and someone may see you in a provocative pose. That doesn’t mean that you’re standing in a provocative pose, but people see different things. Likewise, a future employer of yours may see something very different. When they see a picture of you, it may not have anything to do, I mean, you kind of have to disengage the intention from the artifact. And I think we have to start talking about artifact culture When you have a JPEG, a picture, that goes up online, it may be virtual, but it’s still an artifact of a moment. But how people interpret that artifact is different. And I think people, then, don’t feel as judged. You’re not saying, that was a slutty picture, you’re saying, this picture is interpreted as slutty by these people. It’s interpreted as pornography by these people. It’s interpreted as fun by you and your friends, it’s interpreted as threatening by your ex boyfriend, it’s like, people can put all sorts of things onto the artifact But if you understand that artifact culture leaves a permanent record, and that pictures on Facebook are never deleted, and that huge amounts of Facebook’s budget goes to preserving all of the server space to maintain every picture you’ve ever deleted from Facebook, let alone the ones that are still up, then you understand artifact culture better. And it’s not about judging someone’s individual artifact, the intention behind it is about talking about the realities of it, and I think people get that. I think teenagers can get that. Well, thank you so much for coming Thank you for coming. And thanks Sackler, for hosting us, and the Brooklyn Museum. And now, we can continue this conversation at the reception, which I assume will be self evident how to find? Fourth floor, up one floor. In the Center itself. Fourth floor, in the Center itself, so hopefully we can continue talking there. But thank you

Coming to you from the Taube Family Auditorium at the Commonwealth Club it’s Week to Week, the political roundtable from Monday September 30, 2019. Now— and this is true — for the past three years every single week two week program I’ve gotten at least one question card from the audience saying when will he be impeached how can we get him impeached what will it take to impeach him well tonight’s your night and we’re in the impeachment era but even this might not turn out as planned the Daily Show’s desi lydic vented last week she said quote I’m mad because our president cannot even get impeached right he’s wasting is one impeachment on taking down Joe Biden Joe Biden will take down Joe Biden you only got one impeachment you got to do it right well I’m John Zipperer, your host for Wweek to Week, and on today’s program we are course we of course are going to talk about the impeachment and the process and the politics involved as well as other topics such as San Francisco’s streets the climate strike 85 and other things and of course we’ll end our program with our live news quiz everyone’s welcome at the Commonwealth Club so any opinions that are expressed up here are just those of the speakers and not necessarily the Commonwealth club itself now let’s meet our panelists for tonight at the far end of the stage is Carson Bruno he’s the assistant dean and assistant dean an adjunct lecturer at the Pepperdine University School of Public Policy and he’s on Twitter at Carson jf brno joining us for the first time is Tim Miller he’s the founder of light fuse communications he’s a contributor to the bulwark communications director for the Jeb Bush 2016 campaign the founder of America rising and so many other things I’m just gonna curtail the bio here but he’s on twitter at tim oh’ DC or Tim Oh Tim Oh DC how do you all go at that whichever way you want you can find it there so welcome to our panel and next to me is Melissa Kane she’s the political and legal reporter at KPIX TV and glad to have you back glad to be here I think you’re all veterans of this thing so you know how we do it there are question cards spread throughout the room write out some questions we’ll have people pick them up and I’ve already got some of them so I’ll work that into our discussion here tonight now so House Democratic leadership led by Speaker Nancy Pelosi has been resisting pursuing impeachment proceedings for a long time their fears either stated by them or surmised by observers ranged from worries that it would hurt vulnerable Democrats who had flipped the house by winning in purple districts all the way to fears that if the impeachment wasn’t a slam dunk in other words if a large percentage of the American population didn’t think it was valid it would be rejected by the American people it would not just be a political disaster but perhaps say an enduring political wound now then the president talked to the new president of Ukraine who and I’m not making this up is a professional comedian who portrayed an accidental Ukrainian president on television so president Trump reportedly pressed him to investigate Joe Biden and critics say he used nearly 400 million dollars in American aid to the hard-pressed government and government of Ukraine as a weapon to help hidden excuse me to help his campaign now let’s start first if we could just briefly setting the stage what happened last week and if I can start with you Melissa big question what happened last week well let’s see we got the trance so we we got the whistleblower complaint that sort of lays out what a certain person we don’t know who yet heard from other folks within the administration and then as a result we got this summary of a conversation of the conversation with President szalinski and then we got Democrats in a position to basically say we we can’t you know can’t fight this feeling anymore if I could quote REO Speedwagon they uh um they they were like you know at some point you just have to do this you have to move forward and to be clear they’re what they’re calling for is an inquiry not for an actual impeachment seating there saying we need to investigate what is in this whistle whistleblower claim we need to see the original transcript we need to sort of get to the bottom of all this there they’re saying basically looks bad but also it warrants additional information now weirdly they’ve got enough three committees I think looking into this which is just gonna be kind of a fiasco like it’s you know it would be better if they had just one maybe maybe one big

one but three little ones well you know gathering crumbs which which may cause some confusion but that’s essentially Nancy Pelosi has sort of moved over into the let’s at least try to go down that road column on on impeachment Tim what do you think was the deciding factor that made Nancy Pelosi you know put aside her reluctance and say yes we need to do this we need to look into this I’m gonna answer that I do just want to start with saying I heard some chuckles when you mentioned the Jeb part of my bio and I think I think that you all would be lucky to have Jeb right now as far as as far as Speaker Pelosi look I mean he’s caught red-handed I think is what happened basically her hand was forced I was forced somewhat by these kind of purple seat members that you mentioned in the intro who I think feel a lot more political stability about voting for impeachment against the president when the facts of the case are as clear as they were in the call and in the as you said summary not transcript with the summary of this call a summary that you had the president for some reason volunteered to put out because I think that he’s surrounded by advisers who are so conspiratorial in their thinking and so detached from reality that they actually thought that it was going to vindicate him which is insane and it’s in its own right and so you know look impeachment is a political process not a legal process you’re the lawyer here not me and so I think the what actually brought us to the brink of this was going to be a political necessity you know not a legal necessity and I think that the Ukrainian transcript to gave the speaker that Carson yeah I think it’s also important to kind of set the stage little bit broader too and the fact that Nancy Pelosi is also seeing a lot of Republicans starting to head off into retirement and so you’re seeing a lot of not just those who could be theoretically vulnerable in terms of the 2020 elections those who are in safe seats who would not be vulnerable even if the re-election for president Trump goes really south they would they would be basically assured reelection so the fact that the minority party in the house is showing that they’re not too enthusiastic about the prospects of regaining majority status also I think really kind of helps to shore up Nancy Pelosi in terms of making sure she’s not putting her vulnerable members that she needs to win reelection to maintain her status as Speaker isn’t is enabling her to really kind of move forward with something that could be a political roll of the dice because it still could be let’s not forget that impeachment is still not a popular thing the impeachment inquiry is yes popular now because of the unfoldings of the Ukrainian situation but the actual act of impeachment regularly goes well for those the party that is actually in the impeachment process you saw it with Republicans if you go back to the Nixon era it was not until basically Nixon’s polling went into the mid seventies the tapes is that smoking gun that were then the Republicans started to really kind of you know jump ship where you really started to see kind of proceedings really start to move forward so a there needed to be a smoking gun B there needs to be that kind of political assurity and a little bit of bipartisanship as well and the fact that some members of the Republican Party are in fact kind of saying you know what yes let’s actually go through the inquiry hey I think they’re protecting themselves a little bit too she was better than that but yeah there needs to be those two elements to it not just kind of not just a pressure from her own caucus and she’s been able to withstand that pressure since day one of the 2018 election remember too that you know impeachment is just sort of if you’re a DA impeachment just bring just means we’re gonna we’re gonna bring charges right so when the hell votes that majority vote to bring impeach tip for impeachment proceedings as we all know goes to then to the Senate and now there’s a whole lot of questions what does that mean does the Senate have to have a trial so because the Constitution just says the trial is sort of the purview of the Senate it doesn’t say there has to be one explicitly although some folks say it’s implicit it doesn’t explicitly say there has to be a trial there’s no timeframe on when it has to be right so we know Mitch McConnell who famously put off Merrick Garland’s hearings did not have any compunction about you know sort of doing away with norms to to push things out he could push it out till after the 2020 election and also what is a trial I mean could you just do it as sort of a something like on the papers you need to actually have witnesses and things like that could you just put together something and say well that’s a trial and so there now there are a lot of questions about how this could be weaseled out of

potentially even assuming the house goes through with an impeachment vote we know there aren’t the votes in the Senate but there may not even be a real sort of full-on trial like Bill Clinton had for example in 1999 you might not even see that that is another sort of pain point where you could have a you know kind of a crisis there’s some debate as to whether or not the Democrats should go very narrow very you know narrow and there there’s stuff the impeachment inquiry and potential charges keeping it very tightly related to this Ukraine call or someone had suggested nothing it might have been a never Trump or Republican it was a basically saying load it up because you will put all those Senate Republicans on notice of having to vote on all kinds of different things and they actually might find some of them they would vote for some articles any thoughts on that any Carson narrow it the fact that this happened over a phone call the fact that then of course the president and I say it’s talking to a lot of world leaders on a very regular basis does open up the kind of the the ability for the the house to start to explore other phone calls you know there there was a discussion about kind of getting the transcripts from all the Putin conversations of course talking with the Chinese there’s a long list that open him up for a lot of other opportunities that might even be more of smoking guns than this Ukrainian situation could play out to be again we don’t have too much detail because it’s just been summaries so far so it’s really hard to really kind of gauge the true timeline at this point but that’s I think that’s why Nancy Pelosi is going with the inquiry stage because it gives her the ability to really kind of lean in or kind of pull back as she needs to depending on kind of how the political situation rolls there was a news story that the u.s. intelligence I guess had believed that had concluded that Israel Israel’s government had put up some basically cellphone listening devices around Washington that would capture improperly shielded phone calls including the president’s Israel of course has denied this and others have said well everyone’s probably doing it maybe we should just go to Israel give us these calls someone writes from the audience in normal times wouldn’t this impeachment be a slam dunk I would actually argue would be more difficult in normal times because not being as polarized as we are now you would have even more people who’d be able to rally around the president we’re look I don’t have the numbers from memory maybe a political junkie and the audience does but I think that there were ten Democrats the one for impeachment for Clinton all right including a couple that are still around Colin Peterson rep out of Minnesota so you know look I do think that in less polarized times you sort and and with a Republican Party in the past that was more fragmented you you certainly would have I think a broader potential coalition for impeach impeachment and removal than you do now I mean because the facts are there so plainly and what’s happened I don’t know whether whether how normal or their normal is is the question here but but the parties have sorted themselves ideologically to such a degree that you don’t have like what you really did in the old days with the Blue Dog Democrats and the Rockefeller Republicans right that we have such clean ideological sorting that that you know I don’t know that you know we’re in abnormal times because the president is so extremely abnormal but I don’t know right but I don’t know that even once he’s gone whether you know that means that we’re gonna move back to quote-unquote normal times where there’s more kind of bipartisanship and comedy III think that even after Trump’s gone you know we’re in for at least a short-term medium-term period where this is kind of the new normal let’s talk about Donald Trump’s lawyer Rudy Giuliani has been in a courtroom he’s a lawyer kind of like I’m a basketball he’s he’s kind of been continuing his Saturday Night Live performance art and and just giving these interviews on TV whether it’s yelling at you know yelling at a Democratic commentator on Fox I guess air quotes Democratic commentator on Fox or yelling at I think he was yelling at a fellow of fellow conservative on another show but more seriously he’s the president’s personal lawyer and the president in this call from what we can get from that that summary was telling this foreign leader to work with Rudy Giuliani on you know this little side project of theirs that in itself would seem to be a problem right I asked the lawyer on the panel yeah when you really have so many

lawyers really we taxpayers fund a lot of government lawyers whether it be the DOJ the FBI the CIA the State Department I mean there are any number there’s armies of lawyers literally that he could have called on and so it is a good question and this week Chris Wallace tried to ask Stephen Miller I’d you know to answer this question which by the way was only one of many bonkers interviews that you should look up the line watching Stephen I’m sorry I it’s very opinionated but still watch that video it’s wow it was an interesting exchange and Stephen Miller basically said you know eBay he just refused answer the question really and so far we haven’t really gotten a decent answer I think Margaret Brennan asked Rudy Giuliani the same question you know why call you and knots you know one of any number other of attorneys that this is really on the up and up why are you involved in this instead of another another it’s her like a government attorney this is really like legit stay business why are we calling you and yeah and he didn’t answer so so far we haven’t actually gotten a good response from from the you know from the President or any of his proxies on this issue unclear doesn’t look good but I’m sure is is part of what is driving the public’s scepticism now or the public’s interest now I would say in an impeachment inquiry the White House kind of infamously emailed out their talking points that were intended to go to Republicans who would be defending them in media interviews and famously sent it to Democrats but someone from the audience asks now do any of these Republican talking points against impeachment actually carry any water so Tim any thoughts on any of the arguments they’re making against this well I’d answer that question two ways I guess the first question is I look I mean impeachment and as a censure is is one thing right impeachment and removal again that comes back to this is a big political question and I do think that there are you know some some not very many good faith defenses of what the president is doing which is you know we need to give latitude to the executive branch in foreign affairs and if all future presidents are worried that they’re gonna get removed from office if you know the details of some phone call leaks then you know that’s a slippery slope I think that that’s a it’s not my position but I think that that’s a good faith defense the specific defenses that they are giving against Donald Trump are all range from bad faith to drawn to completely insane I’m happy to go through this if you would like to as we as we move along Thanks okay Carson I’m when you’ve heard these in fact Kevin McCarthy came out and had an interview that did not seem to go well no and partly he seemed to just have difficulty explaining the stuff that he had been sent out to explain well I think it’s kind of – to Tim Tims point where there’s such divergence in the talking points themselves that it’s hard to maintain a level of professionalism as you’re being kind of hit with back-to-back questions especially in a one-on-one interview like bats where basically he had mean the the reporter had all of the text right there could just read it off and you really have nowhere to go because you’re sitting there and you’re just being peppered with questions and we’re not answering the question and it’s very easy then to kind of we ask the question in a different way so I mean whoever again whoever the comms person who put that he got it with Kelly with McCarthy is this well Trump didn’t really say that the favor was about Biden he said the favor was about CrowdStrike and and so Pelley goes back at at McCarthy says well he says but that’s the the favor though uh but here’s one favor though and record said he didn’t say though and probably said I’m looking at it right here and then and then it’s like okay well then let’s go to the favor he does X which is about crown strike and you know I wrote about this for the bulwark and you know we could spend all day on this and so I don’t want to bore you with this this completely insane you know otherworldly conspiracy theory that the president was asking the president of Ukraine about but the short of it is is that this conspiracy theory has bubbled up through Roger stone and the Internet and the idea is that the DNC wasn’t hacked by the Russians it was an inside job within the committee and that when the FBI went to investigate this the DNC rejected their efforts to invent to to look at the server and had a company called

CrowdStrike look into it and CrowdStrike is part of a international cover-up that involves the Ukrainians Jim Comey robert muller donna brazile who’s a fox news contributor now – this is a strange that she’s involved and the entire DNC where they covered this the fact that it was an inside job up and sent in evidence to the FBI that it was the Russians Trump seriously asked Muller our excuse me as szalinski about that theory to help him prove it that the Ukrainians were the previous Ukrainian administration was in on it so if your McCarthy you know and you’re stuck on this talking point we’re like well we didn’t ask about the favor about Biden you know then the follow-up is well let’s talk about crowds yeah it’s not the favor he did ask about and then it’s also I mean then they’re calling this memo a transcript they keep on roof they keep on repeating this it’s not transcript the trick the transcript may not exist actually because no one actually knows it doesn’t seem anyone really knows where the transcript currently is it’s a summary of the conversation by people who were listening to the conversation that all these conversations have summaries kind of attached to them so the fact that Republicans keep on calling it a transcript then kind of that doesn’t even help their situation either because it’s it’s it’s an someone else’s account of what the conversation was so since President Nixon no president wants to admit that they record their calls they must be recording them I mean I would I would I would think the deeps day would be no look our journalists here my people done a good job I think of being there with it with the information but I will say this and this is something that was a little disappointing when I was watching the sunday shows and I’m not saying when Republicans point to Joe Biden in Hunter Biden that that’s the same thing that that is you know equally as bad or anything like that but I think that among some Democrats certainly among some journalists the inability to acknowledge that hunter Biden getting 50 grand a month from a Ukraine natural gas company is gross and it’s just not cool and isn’t the same like it’s a problem you know like it’s you know like it was weird and bad and even if he was qualified which he wasn’t it would still be where and bad and why can’t you just say that and won’t say but we’re talking about this other thing which is again is not the same and I’m not saying the Biden got the guy part I don’t know if he got the prosecutor or fired for in you know for investigating the company the Biden 100 Biden was working at I don’t know but what I do know is that the vice president’s kid was getting a ridiculous amount of money on the board of this natural gas company in the Ukraine while his dad was dealing with issues in the Ukraine and that is ridiculous and terrible and people should just be able to acknowledge that and say what the president President Trump did if true is also really bad and I’m really frustrated with my people for not for just shrugging it off like well that’s cool you know like it’s not it’s not cool I mean I agree that in some sense but in another sense I agree with you in the sense that one hunter Biden seems like an idiot and that that the contract that he was getting was was gross but like the thing is hunter Biden isn’t running for president right and so Donald Trump jr. is full of gross stuff and so sivan Ken says what there’s no proof that Joe Biden did anything wrong and so and so to focus on hunter Biden III think that there’s a lot of journalists that you know in an effort to try to say well you know here the Trump’s do make this claim about the Biden’s and you know and it’s like about the Biden so it’s like well what did Joe Biden do that was wrong exactly because we have a lot of contemporaneous reporting about what happened this is not something to happen in ancient history this is not something that was not covered that Rudy Giuliani discovered through an interview while he was taking the scoobies meal be able to go interview people in the Ukraine like like everybody wrote about the firing of this prosecutor in 2016 I was I was around I was at the at the time was criticizing hunter by for doing this but but what what the reporting showed at all at that time was that this prosecutor was not investigating the Biden company was not investigating a lot of other companies he was involved in scandals where his subordinates were dealing diamonds and other you know and other in cash in bags and so then when he then went by him to resign like I was watching Stephanopoulos this weekend and it’s definitely and Rudy is just gaslighting him about what happened in

Ukraine and Stephanopoulos like didn’t read any articles about this he doesn’t know what happened so Rudy said that you know Biden pressure him to resign he resigned well kind of he resigned in February for a couple days then he came back fired his deputy who was the reformer that all of the pro-democracy groups wanted to be the prosecutor stayed on for another month and then had to be voted out by the Ukrainian Parliament two eighty nine to sixteen like job I don’t think Joe Biden was whipping votes and I’m not saying that Joe Biden did that a month again I’m not equating it but I’m just saying the fact everyone just sort of seems to shrug at this what appears to be and what I think especially like for example from one of trumps kids was on a board of a Ukrainian natural gas company people be freaking out like it’s to just be like oh well it’s fine it’s not fine and I’m not saying Joe Biden whipped Duma and I’m not saying you should be blamed for it and I’m not saying there should be any equation but I just mean the fact that that seems to be like totally okay over here and we’re just going to focus on this over here undermines what is otherwise I think a very legitimate the point is relevant though to what is happening at the president is the president’s asking a Ukrainian president to fabricate a fake investigation about Biden like that that’s the point so like whether or not you think hunter like hunter Biden’s gross sure I’ll give it and if the president wants to attack him in a campaign ad over that fine right or if you know of commentators of Republican campaigns that’s our that’s your job as a campaign guy to go after the other campaigns but when the president in a diplomatic call is calling the other president and asking him to fabricate a controversy about about Joe Biden that’s already been investigated that’s already been looked at that’s already that where they’ve already been cleared like I mean that’s just wrong and so for for journalists then to say what when you know when Trump defenders say well they’re just looking into this and for yours to say well you know that’s something worth looking into like that no no that it was looked into and and what Trump is trying to do is hold its hold 400 million dollars until the Ukrainian president makes up a fake investigation into Joe Biden and that’s the fact that we just kind of veered to Biden this is a problem though for Biden I mean look and it doesn’t fighting has to win a primary first he’s not he’s not the Democratic nominee yet so he has to convince the voters but more importantly the establishment and the party insiders and all especially the early states that he is capable of going up against and winning against Trump and at least for the initial part of the campaign yeah there were some some hiccups that could kind of be showcases of bigger problems but the fact that matter was he had the electability sort of argument kind of locked down for a good portion of that early the early part of the summer and into kind of this stage of the primary season the fact that we’re talking about impeachment all of a sudden we’re talking now about Joe Biden is a big problem for Joe Biden because if he can’t convince people in Iowa and New Hampshire or his kind of his savior state which is South Carolina to vote for him and make sure he is at least number two if not number one in those early states then his campaign sunk and he’s not going to be the nominee that’s bad news for him and his team well so CBS did a poll the other day shameless plug and it showed that 42% of Americans want to see an impeachment inquiry no I’m sorry want to see the president impeached I apologize so they want to see an actual impeachment 42 percent but 43 percent want Joe Biden and this whole issue investigated further right yeah and so yeah to your point it’s its problem and I think the biggest winner here to some degree is like Amy Klobuchar right so whoever who’s the other moderate right who’s not Joe Biden you gotta have to go down may actually find herself you know you know doing a little better on the polls depending on what happens with Biden if this really does you know it was play out in terms of people’s confidence that he can defend himself in so far he hasn’t he didn’t call for impeachment right away everybody else but Joe Biden called for each minute right away and he’s like oh let’s have an investigation and it just seemed like hey you know maybe he doesn’t want people to look too closely into this and and I’m not saying that’s the case but I’m saying it he didn’t come straight out with straight away and say this is nonsense you know we got to fight it and so you know it just sort of was like Joe get on in there and you know sometimes I feel like I’m more mad for Joe than Joe’s mad could have been could be still it’s not over it could be a moment right and it

could be a primary race re at a bait stage where somewhat someone yeah it’s Elizabeth Warren for instance or Kamala again who decides you know go after him go after him again because she needs to rise in the polling again and that’s when he just kind of just has his this I paid for this mica moment yeah I mean he’s like I was and here’s the difference about what happen is happening Hugh Crain he was trying to stop corruption in Ukraine he was trying to fire the crowd prosecutor Trump is being corrupt on his behalf in Ukraine like they were doing the opposite things right so I you know III think that if he could explain that clearly and forcefully this could be a chance for him but but he’s been he’s been kind of letting it happen quietly someone from the audience asks if actual impeachment is defeated in the Senate do you think that would strengthen or weaken Trump’s results in the 2020 election any thoughts I’ve given up trying to predict yeah look I would say this biggest biggest picture I could see it’s helping him you know there being some fatigue but but but that doesn’t that’s not a reason not to do it because you can’t game it out really and and and and and a focused campaign are not campaign but a focused inquiry and to what he’s been doing a day-in day-out news cycles on that does not help him because there is people don’t believe that these folks exist but they do there’s about five percent of the electorate mostly it’s conservative independents it’s some moderate Republicans who like actually don’t like him but just but just go with the CM is the lesser of two evils right and so you know Democrats don’t like talking to those those those voters Trump turns them off and so when Trump’s in the news all the time that’s why you see that little 5% dip in his approval rating and when he’s out of the news when AO sees in the news you see him going back up a little bit so if this keeps him in the news all the time I think on balance probably hurts him with that small very very small swing demo and that mean national polling is kind of meaningless in terms of this sort of stuff because again we don’t hold a national election so it’s really kind of what does Pennsylvania thinking what is Michigan thinking what is Wisconsin thinking was Florida thinking what is Ohio thinking you know what are those individual states thinking and kind of are there is there the movement happening there that then puts that electoral college victory in jeopardy and we’re way too early in the process to really be able to truly see that out and it also plays on the Senate side too you mean you start to see things starting to shift maybe in North Carolina Nevada some other states or I guess not Nevada but there’s a Colorado sort of Arizona then where all of a sudden you had these vulnerable senators really trying to win re-election that really make up the majority and do they start to really kind of think about kind of triangle ization in terms of the political side of this too in order to save their skin as well as then kind of the the election and the impeachment process overall so how do you take the temperature of Donald Trump’s feelings from his tweets yesterday he called for a representative Adam Schiff to be tried for treason he also said and someone in the audience asked about he said his impeachment would result in a new civil war does he think that’s effective there’s no doubt he made the decision also to release that summary let’s take that one okay yeah there’s I mean I won’t go into like the thousands of reasons why that doesn’t make any sense but but but if he really wants to scare people he wants to rile his base he wants to get people you know thinking and like into sort of a bunker mentality about you know whose side are you on even though you know it’s sort of block by block I don’t really know how like as a southerner like I don’t know the geography of this even a little bit so it seems like it’s some hyperbole some you know sort of dog whistling definitely sort of trying to get his people to sort of get behind him but it’s not clear it’s not clear that that that is working especially when we’re just talking about and I think it’s it’s it’s a it’s a smart thing for Democrats to say we’re going to just start with an inquiry right we’re just going to start by digging into does this whistleblower complaint contain information that can be substantiated can we get the actual transcript let’s get the best evidence we can and go from there and not you know moves like sort of straight to you know sort of try to overshoot but does he think it would result in a civil war I can’t imagine that’s something that he would enjoy you know Amy lives in him in a world that we don’t live in it’s very clear of that

it’s just a matter of how much more can the people around him take and how much more will Mitch McConnell and Kevin McCarthy take in terms of a lot apparently what more than I was expecting same especially for someone like Mitch McConnell who doesn’t care if he’s popular or not maybe Mitch McConnell could care less whether he’s popular I mean his polling in his own home state is terrible everybody knows he’s gonna win reelection because he’s a great political operative in that way but I just did not expect him to be able to want to go down that well when they find out that the whistleblower is Melania I think the ladies will blow off a bang so I’m going to since I we need to move on from the impeachment topic I’ll kind of meld a number of questions here one is it’s basically we were talking before about the Senate how Mitch McConnell might handle that whether he wants to delay it could the house in vote to impeach and then delay when the vote you know delay when it gets sent to the Senate or something like that or is that dude do we know enough about the rules even answer that question the vote to impeach in the house yeah it has never had like an addendum that says and the Senate shall vote on this in six months or something like that like a that’s not there’s no way to delay I don’t think or at least historically there hasn’t been a way to delay just sort of build in a timer into the house and say you’re gonna vote on this after the twenty twenty election when we take back all those sentences and much happier with what the Senate looks like so and so you know this whole idea I mean there are different theories out there about how long this is all going to take so the speaker for example has very been very careful again she’s got three committees Oh Lord you know and you know the the White House not going to turn over any documents and so it’s gonna be a legal fight legal fight and so we may end up you know sort of right up to the election and that could be I think both sides find that beneficial I don’t know who’s right but but it’s definitely going to take a while it’s not going to be a thing that is going to necessarily happen overnight although we had Marcus Olney on the other the other day congressman from the East Bay who said that he was anticipating an impeachment vote by the end of the year hmm so I was surprised if the speaker sorry just really quick if the speaker tried to jam it in not be eaten before Thanksgiving I mean I don’t think we should take anything off the table you know there’s a cost-benefit analysis it’s hard to game out there gets to be fatigued about these kinds of things you know you could lose put your popularity on this is is tenuous you know it’s moving their direction but it’s tenuous you know the benefit is you know maybe longer inquiry and there’s more things that you could kind of do both right and you could vote in December and then still investigate as long as he’s in there right and so I I don’t know that I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s the route that they take then just a few things hey there’s only that this has only happened three times and so in terms of precedent there it’s not much there and I mean not a relevant precedent so it’s kind of hard to say well this is how it works because a as Melissa T as you said it’s not really truly laid out in the Constitution like step one you do this step two you do this and then it’s in modern history it’s it’s really hasn’t occurred that often enough and to really make it a sure thing of this is what you do so it’s kind of hard to say oh this is what happened in 1998-1999 with bill clinton this is what the kind of was the result this is what happened with Nixon and it’s the result this is what happened with Johnson and this was the result I mean very tough to do that in a way I feel like the Nancy Pelosi would be smart to kind of just push through this through get it done with the polling is moving in her direction she has kind of the momentum do it and then if it kind of backfires on her she has then a few months to kind of deal with it in terms of the political ramifications or maybe then Mitch McConnell and the Senators start to thankful it’d be kind of nice to have a senator or a president pence oh yeah you forgot about that okay well let’s move on where you may well have this to talk about in future weeks weeks maybe we should do a special impeachment one I don’t know but we talked a bit about the Biden race and such so let’s talk briefly about some of the other candidates and such Kamala Harris twenty points behind Elizabeth Warren in California so she done there was an Emerson College poll that showed in California that it went I think Elizabeth Warren Joe Biden Bernie Sanders Andrew yang then calmly Harris behind Andrew yang I just let that sink in in your home state wait where’s Marianne Williamson Oh own strong a 2% in Xanadu god bless her she

makes his debates watchable no no I mean is she is she done I don’t know I mean at some point you know it’s you can only reboot your campaign so many times and and her latest thing went like I’ll give you an example so she rolls out her criminal justice reform package and it’s basically like 50 bullet points it’s and now things don’t have to be as simple as build the wall but it’s helpful to have something that’s not you know just sort of a list of you know priorities from a certain you know wing a political life and so you know she she rolls out and it’s just sort of like this it looks very much like Hillary Clinton had where it was just like here’s my hundred point plan to deal with this you’re going wow that’s a lot to take in so so she even that was kind of muddled even though she was like okay I’m gonna come out there and sort of you know rebut my you know my reputation by putting forth all this progressive legislation and it was just it just it didn’t go anywhere because it was just too much it was just a firehose of stuff that even if you’re thirsty and someone turns a fire hose on you like you’re not getting anything to drink from that right you can’t just do that and so and she’s hired a lot of former Hillary staffers I don’t know if that’s the issue but it seems like so far every time she tries to reboot it kind of falls flat and and she’s really suffering even in her home state she just I think yesterday of the day before opened up her Oakland campaign office and it was like okay so September 29 yeah you know eight months or nine months after stir after she launched she’s you know she opens her Oakland campaign office which clearly indicates she thought she had California in the bag not necessarily as a winner but as one of the top three for example and that’s just not happening and so now she’s sort of scrambling to you know sort of reconfigure and I’m just it doesn’t seem to me like anything really landing yeah I don’t I think that’s right I don’t have any special insight into the Democratic primary voter and why she’s not doing well maybe you guys some of you guys could give me some insight on that III do I think two things one just as a political observer you know my old boss John Weaver who’s John Kasich strategist always said in these sorts of things I always believe your eyes you know and the eyes the eye test right now says that Lizabeth Warren you know has the energy on the on their side and if you you know people say it’s early it’s early well if you looked at October of the past three four presidential cycles the person with the energy one you know I mean we just didn’t let ourselves believe that Donald Trump was gonna win because he was Donald Trump but he did and and Hillary you know I guess you could say Bernie did but ain’t Hillary had a big lead in October mit had a big lead in October he ended up winning Obama was behind but obviously had the energy you know so if you just had if you had to bet in October the person with the energy ended up winning that said this is a very fragmented field and I think that the one think Amla has going for a lot of the other second tier and third tier people don’t have is if if Ivan did collapse I mean you mentioned Amy earlier so the moderate is one part of Biden’s vote but black voters are the other big part right and so who is who is there that could win moderate voters and black voters and kind of recreate bynes coalition maybe comma maybe out there or Corrie subra lefty positions and I should kind of put her out of them moderate yeah may moderate was the wrong word but mainstream you know Obama Democrats so I I’m not ready to like put a gravestone up but but yeah I’ve always I mean the thing with Carla Harris is I I’ve always kind of just been curious or unsure about is kind of why what’s what’s what does she bring that that anyone else doesn’t bring that Elizabeth Warren doesn’t bring that Joe Biden doesn’t bring she doesn’t bring a lot of experience and turn 75 well okay I guess that’s one why no offense to anybody from the Silent Generation I mean other options mayor Pete is pushing hard on the kind of generational yeah and so like he has his Lane of kind of this I’m the true outsider generational sort of concept didn’t work for bait oh yeah it’s not working for bait oh but I mean so when she kind of surged it was kind of like it was more about Biden than it really was about her and so she’s kind of struggle to kind of come up with that why question like would support me I think what it might have been would actually might have been the reason for her surge was that she showed that she could take Biden on and Biden was kind of a stand-in for Trump right and so you

know I do think that the Democratic base wants somebody that can punch him in the nose yes you know on the debate stage and so and so chic so maybe she’s got a couple more debates to show that again well she’s also said her new thing is you know I’m gonna prosecute the case against President Trump but it’s like okay like that’s really boring like every Democrat is against President Trump like she gets on the stage in the debates and she’s like let’s talk about President Trump and it’s like yeah we know we know like we got it move on and she’s not what are you bringing like not the only lawyer you’re there I mean Lizabeth Warren was a lawyer as well so it’s so again that that kind of goes like why he’ll so at this time like I think mean Warren definitely does have the momentum both in terms of energy enthusiasm I mean she has a plan for everything also but her plans at least are – digestible and that you know what they are you get it yeah and she can kind of bridge that kind of Clinton Sanders sort of divide that so far no one really has been able to do yet so now the big there’s there are some question marks around Warren still whether she can kind of play to kind of a larger audience and a you know that be able to get that middle voter because while her polling has significant improved amongst Democrats it’s actually kind of stayed stagnant or gone down with the kind of the middle-of-the-road voter Republicans so she’s not really showing crossover ability quite yet so that there’s question marks there yeah here’s my question about Warren my question which is again so I’m an interloper in the Democratic primary all I want is for somebody to beat Donald Trump so I’m putting aside the policy and all that so this is just pragmatic there were three types of voters the reason Donald Trump’s president there’s there’s people like me that left the party because of Trump they’re not very many of us but but we’re about four percent of the electorate of them are sitting on the stage then there are the blue-collar Obama Trump voters we’ve talked a lot about them and then there are the african-american mostly but also a little bit of young and other people’s color voters who didn’t show up or voted for Jill Stein right so those three groups are going to decide the election right which one of those groups does Warren help with over Clinton I don’t know the answer color maybe yeah caller Obama voters yeah I think maybe but I’ll tell you this like I’ve said this from day one like and this is Obama for Trump you’re going back to Warren maybe yeah because they because they look look who can help us you know economically who’s going to protect us you know I think that there’s you know there’s the real deal I think you know at four of your Union worker and you know in some place and Trump has let you down you go okay well this person you know is also you know gonna look out for she sounds like us and I’ve says from day one and this is policy aside whatever you think of Elizabeth Warren’s policy I’ve always said I will pay nine ninety five for pay-per-view to watch her debate Donald Trump because whoever who can get in the mud with him I mean can you imagine right so remember I remember that that forum where Donald Trump like kind of walked behind Hillary Clinton and it was like what can you imagine what would happen if he did that’s Elizabeth Warren I mean I would pay to watch this and so I’m not saying that should be the way you elect people and that you should vote for her for that reason but I just think if you in terms of like who can take on the president you know sort of in a debate or whatever it may become a Harris of course but but I think Elizabeth Warren is somebody who also has that thing about her where people go you know what I think she would absolutely just you know turn America around be like what are you doing you know really I think I think she’d be somebody who could who would be just as good in a fight as some of the other folks on the stage okay let’s move on I wanted to talk a bit about the streets of San Francisco not the TV show but our actual streets of San Francisco those of us who live work or frequently visit the city know well about its reputation for streets that are full of refuse and people and needles and other things like that this does not escaped the the eagle-eyes of the Trump administration which has of course criticized the state and and criticized our leaders but I did want to talk a little bit about this because you know the major cities in San Fran in California are all democratic control I mean I yeah this one I’ve had the you know kind of liberals in the audience probably liking my Donald Trump take so I’ll maybe say something that might they might not like as much I mean honestly the people that are responsible if you if you’re unhappy with the streets of San Francisco which you should be if you’re unhappy with the price of housing in San Francisco which you should be the problem is pretty much rich liberals like not wanting to build affordable housing near them you know I mean it’s this is not a problem in Texas right

there building plenty of houses in Texas there’s no there are no unnecessary rules around it there are no environmental regulations at preventing people from building houses this is not a problem in Florida this is not a problem in Miami which has a lot in common with San Francisco this is a problem here and in Los Angeles and a couple other places where you know rich liberals don’t don’t want low-income people to be living in their communities they don’t want to build house they don’t want to build houses for them they don’t they want to keep the way the neighborhood is and I understand that but I mean you know I live over in Oakland and they were trying to build a big middle-income this wasn’t low-income housing middle income housing complex and here my house and and the City Council voted it down because there was a gas station that was a historic low key thing it was an ugly gas station on the corner you know in Berkeley similarly I said were so story like this where there was people that lived on a park and they were worried that the this was gonna be low-income housing if they were gonna build the shadow was gonna come over the park I mean this is insane yeah and the people that are being hurt are poor people that liberals claim to care about the most so you know and unfortunately Tucker Carlson this is the thing that proves that a broken clock is Right twice a day maybe only once for Tucker Carlson well it bring it to Southern California a little bit to it so the climate strike there you know that that just happened recently there happen to be one in Santa Monica as well that’s where I currently reside a great environmentally friendly place got a lot of support so much support that they’re carrying signs honk for climate change or honk for whatever the climate well you have people driving their luxury SUVs down Main streets honking at these climate strikers meanwhile we have put into place rules that make it almost impossible to really actually ride scooters around the city of Santa Monica why because the people who live of north of Montana which live in their beautiful mansions think that’s bring in the riffraff of riffraff into Venice into their communities and so they are have no problem jumping into their luxury Land Rover and driving around Los Angeles but and honking for the climate strike at the same time they’re not willing to kind of give up what they’re willing to give up because it incurred a change of lifestyle for them so it’s the same thing we’re seeing here it’s same things you see with homelessness the same thing you see with all these different policy that you have to be able to walk the walk not just speak the talk well you know you I hear from people a lot who complain about you know what we see on the street and and I always ask who’s your supervisor and most people don’t know now you all know because it’s come on don’t know uh who is the district attorney a lot of people don’t know and there are people who still think Avenue some is the mayor like I see him on TV all like so you know and really people have to pay more attention to who they are electing when this state changed the law to make it easier for like eight people in San Francisco to be conserved I’d like to be a member of conservatorship it was like eight to twelve people’s who that is how many people they estimated would be covered by this new law that would allow that to be a little easier so that people who you know not surprisingly crazy people who didn’t know they were crazy could actually be conserved by the city the Board of Supervisors here refused to enact it and they waited and waited and waited and wasn’t until a ballot measure was threatened a ballot measure that probably would have gone a lot farther west threatened that they actually finally implemented this this state law that allowed them to literally like a dozen people up doesn’t have like the really most you know vulnerable people right I’ll just bookmark that as a side note right now under state law in order to be conserved you have to be you have to be a number of things one of them is an alcoholic it does not cover drug use right which is actually the biggest problem we see out here so I know weird I said one of the yeah I know and so what the law did was it added sort of some drug use to that list and so that wouldn’t that was sort of put so perfectly reasonable why anyone would be against this I don’t know but some were and they were very loud and they went to the Board of Supervisors but this is what happens when you don’t pay attention to who you’re electing to your local offices and then all of this stuff happens on the street and you go how did this happen well this is how this is how it is outrageous that it took a threat of a ballot measure to get our Board of Supervisors to do the very very minimum required by a new state law that would allow conservatorship over

some people who have you know just such severe drug problems that they have been admitted to either hospitals or to the police like over more than a dozen times over a year what I think the loss is something like that but but again it’s not this is not a massive thing this is not a you know this is not a joke you know what Joseph Heller in a situation it’s just a it was a very minimal thing and even that ran into massive problems at the board and so anyone out here I I encourage you to when your friends complain about this talk to them about who they’re electing locally who is making the decisions that are affecting how we live it’s not just look it’s I mean I am a huge proponent of local understanding your local politics understanding your local policy issues because that is really where the things that affect you the most are gonna get done but it’s also about the state I mean there are some things that I disagree vehemently with with Scott Weiner but on SB 50 and a lot of his housing stuff he is right where the state needs to be and should have been about a decade or two ago and the fact that he is not getting the support that he deserves and on these issues it’s an environmental issue it’s a housing issue it’s a transportation issue it’s a public health issue as well and so you really have to kind of see the intersection around all these policy topics not just think of them as silos and not just think of them of how its affect my house or what whatever I currently am dealing with him at my point in time it’s much bigger than kind of just you and me speaking of state laws I wanted to talk a bit about a b5 you know have you heard about this law this would affect how companies label workers as either independent contractors or employees rideshare service companies uber and lyft were pretty much assumed to be the main targets of this but we’re finding this bill affects lots and lots of companies it affects nonprofits look at the Commonwealth Club – and I think a lot of companies are probably going to be finding they’re spending a lot more time and money in paperwork and and other sort of background stuff on people they they’re using services of maybe ten hours a week or less Carson do you have any thoughts in a b5 was it yes unintended consequences or is this maybe what the folks behind the law actually we’re hoping for a broad application like this so a little background for us a I’m not a labor lawyer so I don’t I mean I’m not gonna go too deep into the labor law portion of it all but there was a Supreme Court state Supreme Court case that essentially mandated this ABC test in terms of determining whether someone’s an employee or eligible to be an independent contractor and so it kind of set up this kind of massive limbo because it was kind of the courts deciding that the the setting policy per se and so the legislature decided to basically just enact the ABC test that the the courts kind of forced upon the states and so a b5 is that bill that essentially determines how you can be classified whether you have to be classified as an employee which then sets ablaze all that labor you know law and code associated with that minimum wage hours health care benefits all etc etc etc or whether you can be classified as a legitimate independent contractor which then labor law does not necessarily kind of associate with you as an employer as a worker um it became very much focused on uber lyft so much so much focused on uber lyft so much so that most people actually thought it was just a bill to go after uber and lyft to make sure that they’re making so that they could allow their workers to be employees there’s nothing preventing them from having their drivers be employees let’s just get that clear because I’m seeing polling out there saying that would you support a bill that would force that would allow uber and lyft I think it’s the Emerson poll that you quoted earlier that would allow uber and lyft to prove to have their riders or drivers be employees know that they could do that under previous law that was perfectly permissible what does is essentially force them to have their drivers as employees which definitely changes the economics of the situation both drivers as well as for the companies but the bigger thing here is it’s not just a uber lyft bill it affects every single person who is an employee or at an independent contractor in the state of California nail salon tests hair stare stylists people who deliver your beer your newspaper truckers I mean the list goes on we don’t really know truly kind of all the industries that it affects yet because it affects pretty much every single industry there’s a sizable group of people and growing and say California who who either chose or were independent contractors for employment purposes and so it’s definite gonna have wide-ranging effects the problem really is the fact that a lot of

industries realized that it’s gonna have a problem for them and they made a convincing case to the legislature so they got carve-outs out of a b5 and you’re gonna see lots more carve-outs occurring but that policy by carve out means that your policy is bad because if you’re constantly make exemptions for certain people that means then you’re something’s wrong there and what does what does it do it allows you to really just if you’re politically connected if you have money if you have the ability to write op-eds like the editorial boards of some of the biggest newspapers and the state did and all of a sudden they got a carve-out it really sets up a political political ization of labor law which is not a good place to be I don’t care what side of the aisle you are on unions unionization or non-use ation on labor it’s it’s not good position for California to be in and it’s gonna set up a big problem moving forward well that’s a one group that’s actually not carved out weirdly not carved out is political operatives so those folks with the clipboards outside the grocery store who lie to you about what they want you to sign people not carved out people foam Bank for certain candidates not carved out weirdly pop you know politicians rely on non employees a really lot and so but these folks again strangely not carved out and I kind of like this because here’s the thing politicians often get to pass laws and then sort of walk away and go okay private-sector you deal with it you deal with this like mishmash of nonsense that we can’t figure out and so the fact that they might now actually have to sit down and read some of the stuff that over the years they have passed and try to implement it among their own staffers is going to be kind of amazing but that’s just an example of one of the group’s that’s not lyft or uber drivers that are going to be covered by this and that the implications of which are we just don’t know yet we’re gonna have to start seeing it and to be clear this court case and this law are retroactive they are not like they don’t just like begin in January of 2020 they’re supposed to sort of clarify existing law so it’s not the case that on its on a certain day everybody’s got these rights the law says everybody already has these rights and so the litigation that might result is you know it could be serious so while like you’re gonna see a lot of probably inside game in Sacramento around the carve-outs continuation but there’s also gonna be a ballot measure on this a referendum on a b5 guber and lyft already put in I think 30 million each I think it’s 30 million each into a campaign to basically overturn a b5 which would then throw kind of the whole situation into another limbo because then it is there has to be some sort of law to determine what is a classification versus employee versus independent contractor so while there’s gonna be a lot inside game you’re gonna be you’re gonna see lots of commercials about it okay before we get to our nose I want to give Tim last chance to talk about college athletes Gavin Newsome signed a bill why don’t you I was so happy that Gavin Newsom did something that I like I’m just glad you gave me just one minute to talk about it it’s crazy the way that college athletes are treated treated it’s been I’ve had a shoe for awhile I tried to win Jeb over on it he rejected me did it end up mattering look I mean I think that a lot of times people debate this like they should be students and they go to class and and you know they’re already getting paid through that or oh they’re gonna go be famous in the pros and make money anyway but the problem is there out of people in the middle that are getting that are getting kind of screwed right where college is their best earning time a lot of times it’s poor kids right so you know look I’m a fan of LSU football so here’s my example if you’re like the 10th best player I’m sorry best player on LSU you know you might go to the pros but but everybody in Louisiana knows you right now and and so everybody’s making money on you the coaches the universities make good money and you CBS is making money off you you know I’m going to the games paying a hundred dollars a ticket having to watch commercials and and this guy it’s the 10th best player on the team who might have come from a poor family he think he’s getting nothing and and so you know it’s really a broken system and I didn’t Gavin is on the cutting edge of a good solution that keeps them student-athletes but lets them you know if that guy wants to go do an ad for a car dealership in Louisiana right now to make a couple extra bucks he can do that that should be allowed any other students allowed to do that already and I think that’s a fair way to do it knows a good answer forget oh yeah

– [Female] (bleep) give me that necklace – Please – You got five seconds to give me my dog tags – Go ahead – Five seconds? – Five seconds to give me– – Count ’em off, let’s go (drumming) (upbeat music) – [Miley] Did you get that jacket at Top Shop? – [Liam] Mm-hmm – [Miley] It’s cute Turn around in the back real quick, jump out real quick – Just pull up behind – Okay (upbeat music) (banjo music) – Oh my God, babe! Babe! – Got it, locked it down – Babe, there’s two (bleep) naked people getting in my car right now – [Liam] What? – I’m not even kidding you They jumped in the backseat of my car and now I’m locked out of my car Swear to God dude – [Naked Male] Do you see him? Do you see the big guy? – (bleep), wait! – [Naked Female] Um, hi – [Miley] I don’t know who the (bleep) is in my car – Wait, get out of the (bleep) car! Get out of the (bleep) car, alright! (bleep) get out! – [Naked Male] Listen, okay – [Naked Female] Sorry Sorry – [Naked Male] Okay, listen – Open the (bleep) door – There’s a man in the neighborhood that’s chasing us – [Naked Female] Do you have any clothes that we could borrow? – Sir, ma’am– – [Miley] No, babe There’s cops coming (sirens) I don’t have my phone Don’t, please don’t touch my phone – What’s going on? – This is our car here Two people just jumped in it, they’re naked I was getting money out – Come around the front Go around over to the front – Whose car is this? – This is my car – Whose car is it? – My wallet, my phone – My girlfriend – Everything – What’s going on? – I don’t know Two people just jumped in her car – Two people jumped in my car, he was at the ATM – I was just getting money out My girlfriend just (bleep) ran out and then there’s these two people in my car – Okay well just relax a second My partner will take a look here – We got two nudes in here – Um, hi – Hey – Why are you guys butt naked? – I have underwear on actually – She has underwear on – Good God Do you have no underwear on? – No I was wearing a watch – What’re you guys doing in somebody else’s vehicle? – We were at a party We got a little unsafe and we’re here right now – We needed to take refuge in somebody’s car – What kind of party has you guys with your (bleep) out? – An adult party, if you wanna know It was a (bleep) party – Hey hey, honey! – It’s okay – It’s a private party officer – Wow – There’s a huge guy that’s chasing us Do you understand? He wanted to do things to my (bleep) that I didn’t want done – Are you guys a couple? – Yes – Oh yeah, yeah – I’m engaged – Gonna be married next summer – Do you know these people? – No, we don’t – Did you see any weapons on any of these people or anything? – No but they’re cuffed – That’s making me nervous – Two (bleep) naked people in the car Understand how I (bleep) feel – Let’s go, get out of the car right now Get out of the car – Alright – Don’t touch anything Don’t touch me, this is disgusting – I’m sorry – Come on man Get up – Alright, okay – Cowboy boots and granny panties This is how you go out? – This is not, these are not – Get on the hood – What? – Let’s go big areolas, on the hood, let’s go Hands on the front of the car guys Hands on the front of the car – Oh my God – Good God, fix your underwear Miss, fix your underwear – They’re up my– – It’s all the way up your crack – I gained weight recently because I have a thyroid problem – Well looks like you’re retaining a lot of water – I just find this– – So ridiculous Look, I find it as stupid as you do I’m telling the honest truth Do I look like I’m (bleep) lying? Do I? – I’ve never met you before, I detect an accent Where are you from? – I’m Australian – Okay, do you know here in California if you’re caught with somebody naked in your car, it’s a felony dude – I bet it is – It is – I don’t know ’em so I didn’t do anything wrong – Do you know these people behind you? Do you know them? – Yes – You do? – Yep – [Liam] I don’t (bleep) know them I don’t know them I’ve never met ’em in my life – Where do you know them from? – We were partying with them, they’re really great They’re great at partying – You know who this guy is? – Yeah, he’s the one who brought the snacks to the party – Do you know these people? – I don’t know these people – For real, do you know these people? – I do, I just told you man I told you a hundred times I’m not talking anymore – Babe, babe, stop – Like I said, this is a crime my man – What have we done? You’re doing nothing This is (bleep) ridiculous – [Miley] Babe, don’t raise your voice Babe, stop Babe, stop – Hey my man Get back over here! – [Miley] Babe! – [Liam] What’re we doing about this? – [Miley] Oh my God, babe Babe, babe – [Officer] Hey, hey, hey hey, hey, hey! – [Naked Male] That’s him! – [Officer] That’s a lot of chocolate – [Miley] Oh my God – [Naked Male] That’s him! Officer that’s him – You just got Punk’d bitch! (Miley laughing) (rock music) You just got Punk’d baby (Miley laughing) – Yeah, that’s funny Dammit! – Babe – Good job everyone There’s another one, another guy (man yelling) – So (bleep) up I’m Liam Hemsworth, I just got Punk’d by my girlfriend You were awesome (upbeat music) – And um – You don’t have quarters? – No I don’t actually but it’s like not working What the (bleep) Dude this is our (bleep) spot – No it’s okay, if it’s out of order they can’t charge us – (bleep) (clatter) Oh my God – Better than the slot machines

– Oh my God – Wait – It’s so heavy – Oh my God – How did you knock this? – Here, hold this Right here, hold this, hold this Can you actually hold this? – Okay – Sorry, don’t let go, I don’t have it Okay – Let’s put it in my car No I’m not stealing it I’m just gonna go eat first – [Officer] Put that down! Ladies, what are you doing? – Oh thank God – We were about to call – We were just calling you – Our quarter wouldn’t go in so we went like this to try to get the quarter to go in – How were you calling me? – What? – You said you were trying to call me? How’d that happen? – There’s a number on the back– – Oh my, put it down Could you please just put it down, please? – So sorry – Can someone tell me how this happened? – I put a quarter in the meter and it said out of order So we just gave it a little shake so the quarter would drop – A little shake? – And then it fell off – Yeah it was already unstable It was already wobbling – It was already wobbling – It takes more than a little shake to knock a meter off – No it was already unstable – I was just around here about 20 minutes ago and this meter looked just like all the rest of the meters – No it was wiggling – Is this all the change that was in there? – Yes, it was! – Alright, are you the one that pushed the meter? – Yes – Please come here, ma’am – No – Wait no You’ve got to be kidding me – It’s just to make sure– – I didn’t do anything wrong I’m not going anywhere, I promise you – Wait, wait, what’s the offense? – This is procedure, this is procedure, okay – Procedure? – If I came down to your work and something was messed up and vandalized – But I just, all I did was tap it I didn’t do anything Wait hold on! – Is this for stealing the meter? – Are you calling the police? I am so (bleep) humiliated right now – You walked by when this happened right? – Yeah, I walked by I was walking by – You know what? I’ll talk to him, can you tell me exactly what happened? – Well all I saw as I’m walking by and I see these chicks look like they were banging on a meter then money falls out and then they started, looked like they were scooping it up – Dude! You are totally out of your mind! – But it don’t seem like a way– – No we have, he’s an unreliable witness – I got better things to do – We have other witnesses – Oh I’m unreliable? I’m not the one banging on meters trying to get money – I’m not sure this is legal – That’s definitely not legal right there – We didn’t break the law! – I saw you holding the meter – She was holding the meter – And you was gonna carry it to your car! – ‘Cause we were trying We were trying to look for the number on the back so that we could call the authorities – Why wouldn’t you just call 911? – Why would we call, this is not an emergency! Why don’t we just like settle this person to person? – I’m gonna run you guys up for destruction of city property, okay? Because there’s no way to explain this, okay? And this is a potential theft – Call the real cops right now and see– – Hold on! – See if they’re telling the truth – They’ll be here soon – Let them come! Let me talk to them about the meter – I am a real cop, I work for the state – Alright, I didn’t mean to say you weren’t a cop – Here you wanna use something, you need to use a payphone? – Sir, sir, don’t touch that! – I’m just gonna give them a quarter – I think we need to book him – Back up from that, back up from that – I was giving them a quarter to make a phone call I’d like to see hot chicks for once get arrested in this town, for once It’s about time, you (bleep) always think you get free drinks, free this, (bleep) – Okay, officer – I’m not gonna say it again – Officer officer, in quotes – Now we’re being assaulted and you’re putting her in handcuffs? She’s trying to help you by picking up the meter to get someone to fix it He’s calling us (bleep)– – Where are you guys? – This guy’s the one who belongs in cuffs I’m sorry I’m not gonna allow this to happen This is absolutely illegal You have no reason to be doing this – That’s really funny that I walk by during like a felony and I deserve handcuffs – But sir, sir, hold on – Why’d you throw the book at these bimps? I didn’t call them a (bleep) – Hey, that’s unnecessary There’s no need for that – You all heard (bleep) – So sick of these bimps, man! – Sir, sir! – This is typical Hollywood BS These girls always get (bleep) and they get Punk’d! – Oh (bleep) (laughing) I did not see that coming – Bingo – How we doing tonight? Can I see your license, please? Just pull it right here By this brick curbing right here There’s an intercom right down there You just get out of your car and just press the intercom and they’ll let you out – Thanks (upbeat music) – (mumbles) – Hello? – Yellow? – Yeah, I’m trying to get out My truck is here, I’m trying to get out – Excuse me? – My truck is here and I’m trying to get out Can you raise the gate please? – Yellow? – Hello? Do you need me to press this button, hello? – East gate – Thank you – Leave it up (bleep) Somebody gon’ have to go tell them Hey man, they’re getting it, hurry up man – Can you please open the East gate?

– Pardon me, the East gate? – Yes, keep it open, the East gate – You’d like me to keep it open? – Yes – Okay The gate should be open – [Kaine] Yo you got to move (beep) (laughing) – Guys, you gotta hustle! Show some effort, come on! – Yo man– – Hustle it up (cars honking) – [Kaine] Trippin’ man (cars honking) – Guys, come on, what’re you doing? What are you guys doing? Go forward, the arm’s up! Green means go, guys, come on! – I don’t give a (bleep) dog – You’re killing me here Green means go guys It’s up, that means you go – They keep mashing the thing, man You need to get up out my face like that dog – [Kaine] (mumbles) Can you open the gate? – Tell them to keep it opened up – Hey man, you need to get up out this car like that – Hello? – I’m not on any car man, I got places to be You guys are dally (bleep) – This is the gate, can I help you? – (bleep) – Come on, guys! – [D.Roc] Hey man there’s a better way of talking than all that yelling you’re doing – I’m not talking anything, I gotta be somewhere! I’m sorry man, I’m just in a rush man – [D. Roc] Well quit (bleep) attitude! We can’t make the gate go up – Is there an issue with the gate? – [D. Roc] I don’t give a (bleep) what it is! – Alright man, I’m sorry, I’m sorry dude But green means go, guys – [D. Roc] I’m just saying! That we can’t keep the (bleep) gate up! Shut your (bleep) mouth! – Can I help you? – Get the gate open! Run with the gate Go, go, go, go, go! Go, go! And I want you to run, go, move! Everybody dip! (bleep) – Yellow? – Aye, someone just knocked your gate down We still sitting here at the gate – You just knocked the gate down? – No – Somebody else did! – Someone behind us, we got witnesses and everything – Why did you knock the gate down? – They didn’t knock the gate down! Somebody else did! – Excuse me sir, you can’t be hostile with me – What the hell is going on here? – We asked them– – Son of a bitch! It’s my gate! Who did that? – Sir if you would listen I’m trying to explain to you what happened – Who else is in that car? Who broke the gate? – A blue Ford Explorer – There’s no Ford Explorer! I see you guys and I see this broken! My gate is down, I see you guys I don’t see any Ford – (bleep) right here! If we hit it– – It broke right here! – Look where the truck at bro! We didn’t move! – Excuse me, is there a problem at the gate? – Clearly, clearly somebody came through here! This is the first piece of this metal! This truck is no where by here! – Why are you yelling? Why are you yelling? – ‘Cause why you trying to play us, man! – Are you a police investigator? – We didn’t, are you? – Do you need assistance at the gate? Do you need the gate open? – It would’ve broke by here bro – It broke right there – It would’ve broke on this side! Look where our truck at, man! You telling me we lying? We up here on business I ain’t got time for this joke – Aye look, we got all night because I got people coming down here I need an ID – Yellow, can I open the gate for you? (laughing) – Get the (bleep) out! We got Punk’d! – Okay so, where’s Jess? – She’s meeting us there, she had some conference call or something like that – So wait, are you going to go get Martin? – Yeah – [Ashley] But you wanna go that way? – [Man In Car] No no no, he’s at a different address – Alright here they go, they’re pulling up (suspenseful music) – Let me wash your windows – No, no Can you tell that guy no? – No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no Dude! – Sir, sir, sir! – The van is dirty – Dude, no! Omg, what the (bleep) – You want some flowers? – No – These are good flowers – [Man In Car] What is going? – Do not open the (bleep) car – Let me go to the back, hold on I’ll wash the back, hold on – Just drive, just drive – [Man In Car] I can’t – Don’t open the (bleep) window, he’ll come to me – Is he, what is he doing? – Where the (bleep) did he go? I’m scared of him dude Just keep driving – Was that not the weirdest thing you’ve ever seen? (Ashley laughing) – We got flowers – (bleep) crazy – He’s on drugs dude Dude, oh my God! He’s (bleep) underneath the car! What the (bleep)! What the (bleep)! Oh my God, oh my God, oh my God!

This is not (bleep) cool! Oh my (bleep) God! – Hey, you alright man? – What are we gonna (bleep) do? – I’m gonna call 911 – I’m calling (bleep) Martin – I’m on Citrus and Fountain Someone just got hit by a car – Oh my god – Alright, thank you – Dude, what the (bleep) – Just to make sure he’s alright – This is so (bleep) crazy – Is he okay? Are you alright man? – What happened? Did you know he was hanging on the back of your truck? – Did you see him? – No, no – Just sit, have a seat, sit down – What were you doing? – I’m gonna throw up – Did he, was he washing your windows? – I don’t know He was washing the windows and we said no We said no – Okay And then what happened? How did he get attached to the back of the car? – Oh my God, I don’t know, I don’t know – Wait a minute He said you guys asked him to wash the windows? – No, no, no, no, what? – He says you asked for the flowers You asked for the windows to wash – No we didn’t! – And then you didn’t tip him That’s why he was hanging on the car to get his money – Dude, I feel really sick right now – So wait a minute, wait a minute You asked him to wash your windshields and then you didn’t pay him? That’s just rude – No dude, this is not funny It’s (bleep) scary – That’s fine I see you with all your fancy clothes on and all your jewelry I’ll take my little broke ass and I’ll pay him off for you Look at that, here’s a five sir, take that Here’s two more – Dude, no! We need a (bleep) ambulance for him! – Hey! I saw you hanging, is everything okay? – No – He just wanted some money – Here man, you want this? Take some money? – I’m not gonna give him money I don’t think I have anything on me – I know you rich! Look at this escalade you riding in! – Oh, I know who you are! (laughing) Are you Ashley Timsdale? – Dude, this is so (bleep) weird – Who’s Ashley Timsdale? – Hold on, wait a minute. No dude – Oh, photo op, photo op – Put your phone away bro – Let me get one photo – Stop with the photo man I’m trying to be nice about this – I’m not taking a photo I’m taking a video real quick Let me get one little video for TMZ TMZ will pay huge money for this – Guys can we just like focus on the situation that’s happening, just so you know – Alright, Ash, I’m just I just wanna get a small video – Why are you in the car right now? – TMZ, this is gonna pay my bills for sure This’ll probably pay off my Hyundai – He’s losing this shit, we gotta get out there – Hey, hey guy, come here You wanna get a picture with just me and her? – No, no, don’t, don’t, don’t! Please please don’t, please don’t, please, no Please put it right there – Come here, let me get you away from these guys Just come with me, I got you You just got Punk’d! – I hate you, oh my God! I was just crying! I thought we ran over somebody! (cheering) – This is Kevin – [Kevin] Hi – Kevin, that’s Ashley – Nice to meet you – I’m so glad you’re okay – I got pads on – Hey I’m Ashley Tisdale and I just got Punk’d again (clapping) I cannot believe I fell for the second time (suspenseful music) – Hey dude, could you get us some 40’s? Come on, come on man, I mean just anything I got 20 bucks dude Tightwad, I mean come on I got 20 bucks man, I mean seriously, come on – Punk ass! – You could have the change – Bitch! – It’s cool dog, it’s cool – Alright, yo knock it out (rock music) – Get the back, get the back – The big one, yeah The 47, yeah (rock music) – Alright they’re paying right now Alright here they come, here they come (rock music) – Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa! – Whoa, whoa! – What the (bleep) do you think you’re doing? (clatter) What the (bleep)! – I got him, I got him, I got him, I got him, I got him! – What’s going on? What happened? – Ah, dude! I didn’t do (bleep)! – I got him man, I got him What’s going on? – Get the (bleep) outta here! – [Kid] No man, I didn’t do it

– You have (bleep) paint on your fingers – [Kid] That was from their kids – It’s from holding the can – [Kid] I was just holding the can – That’s $100,000 car, dude Do you think you’re not going to jail? How old are you, (bleep) 10? – What kind of car? – There’s a sign right there though, man That’s your responsibility – We asked you to buy us beer and they got pissed – (bleep), oh my God – There’s a bunch of cars here Why is your car? Do you think it’s ’cause it’s a Porsche? – A (bleep) eight year old kid asked me to buy him beer and I said no so he spray painted my car – [Security Guard] Is that true? Did you ask him to buy beer? – [Kid] I didn’t ask – [Security Guard] That’s why I always just buy ’em the beer You never know what the hell they’re gonna do – Where’s his friends at? – Where are your friends? – I don’t know I met them just a couple hours ago – You were (bleep) hanging out with them over there! – What is your name? – I met ’em a couple hours ago! Don’t touch me, I didn’t do it! I didn’t do it okay I didn’t do anything okay – When you saw, when you came out there How many kids were there? – I don’t know man (bleep) – [Man In White] My clipboard’s wet, my clipboard – Your clipboard? – [Security Guard] Your clipboard’s not important dude Do you see the (bleep) car? Do you see this car? I feel like this is my fault, I’m sorry This is my lot This is our lot – Oh you’re doing a wonderful job with the lot buddy – You don’t have to get sarcastic with me man – Your job is to watch this lot? You’re doing a dynamite job – Dude, we got a video monitor so we got proof so I can – Oh great, I’m sure we’ll track down the (bleep) 11 year old kids that had spray painted my car – You shouldn’t drive a car you can’t afford to fix though I mean – [Security Guard] Where are you going? – Trying to find a cop! – Hey, get the kid over here I can’t have him off my property What the (bleep) are you doing? – I didn’t do (bleep) – Is this your regular deal, you just vandalize? – I don’t vandalize, I didn’t do it! – That’s vandalization! – I’m 14, it doesn’t matter (clatter) (rock music) I’m not gonna go anywhere, I’m not gonna go anywhere – Look, I saw the whole thing to down and I got these two (Ashton laughing) – Oh my God! (kid laughing) – [Ashton] That (bleep) wipes off my man! – Oh my God, (bleep)! Oh my God! You (bleep)! I can’t believe I almost beat up a five year old on national television Oh my God! That better (bleep) come off! You got me, man You’re so (bleep) dead, you realize that? I got Punk’d – We custom make most of our pieces right here at the store – Yeah, I see a lot of nice things going on here too – Right? Would you mind if I looked at that, the cross? – It done been through everything I just came from a shoot – Did you? I can clean it for you – Please, please – I’ll clean it up right now, beautiful for you Do me a favor Take this in the back, clean this up real nice for me please – Okay – Okay? And then bring it out Yeah I mean this is one of our top pieces It’s just, hey how you doing? – Here for a pickup – okay – Here for a pickup, I was told to come back here – Yeah, I gotcha – That cross that I got – Uh huh? – It was given to me so – It’s right in the back, right back there, okay? Look at this cross right here I mean, I don’t know if the Lord meant for– – Yeah – His cross to look like this but you know, in the end of it all I’m sure he’s happy Look at this – It’s hot – This is beautiful, right? – That’s hot – Which one? – That big– – That one right there? Can you handle that one though? I don’t think you can handle that one I mean I’ll take it out if you’d like to see it – Oh nah – Let me tell you something I’ll put that on right now and people will notice me, you know? – Oh yeah – That’s just the way I roll Okay? Come here, let me put this on you Look at this It looks perfect in your hand If problems arise, it’s like almost half a brass knuckle, you know what I’m saying? – Yeah, yeah – I love it, I love it I get excited, let me see that – Little different from the norm – Let me work it, let me work, you know? I love it, I love it – How’s that look? Are they clean enough? – Oh this not my jewelry – [Woman] That’s not ours – This not mine – That’s what they brought – I was like– – [Woman] It’s like a red gold – A red gold? – Yeah – [Woman] Cross and a dog tag – Okay– – We got everything all set? – [Woman] Steve, that’s not hers but they said that that’s what she was cleaning – This is what you gave me to clean – This is not what I gave you, Jill – I’ll go and check – Can I explain something to you? Can you, alright The piece that she gave to the courier just got sent out Missy, come here for a second Do me a favor? If you can just sit down for one second and look – Y’all got my piece back here? Y’all got my piece back here? – Well did you give it to the? That’s not what I gave you, Jill You need to bring it down a bit, okay? – Don’t think you need to put your finger, your hand back Put your hand, bring your hand back to your chest – You’re inside of my store – You have my jewelry – And I’m getting your jewelry back – Okay, you have my jewelry

– I’m gonna get it back to you Do you understand that? – Get that – I’m getting it back – Call the carrier – No, no, no We had a miscommunication We got a switch up at the package No you’re gonna send it back? Right now? Hold, wow – Give me my dog chain – Okay I’m going to get your dog chain back but can you do me a favor and please get off the stool? – Give me my dog tag dude or we about somebody gon’ get hurt I’m a big girl and once I jump up on this glass it ain’t gon’ be nothing nice ‘Cause I’m too big to be standing on the glass – Yeah – And once they go once one of ’em break, we leaving out with the jewelry – Unbelievable (bleep), please – You got five seconds to give me my– – Go ahead – Dog tags – Five seconds? – Five seconds to give me my dog tags – Count ’em off, let’s go (bleep) – Don’t break the glass! – Exactly Yes thank you much! This jewelry store was about to get real upset ’cause I’m too big to be standing on that glass (dramatic music) – Let’s go Shut the gate first (high tempo music) Get the forms in there Now get the concrete truck in there now (high tempo music) (Ashton laughing) – Alright man, take it easy Good seeing you brother You guys be safe – Alright, they’re getting ready to leave right now – Man, what y’all doing man? – Where are these guys going? – We’re going that way, buddy – [Construction Worker] Where you going? – What you mean? I need to leave (bleep) – Don’t you see the concrete here? Where you going? – How the (bleep) am I gonna get out then? – I don’t know, didn’t you read the sign before you came in? – The studio is not closed – The sign right here says we’re gonna be working We’re doing this – I gotta get my car outta there So can you make a path? – I hope the car can fly because you can’t get over this thing – Hold up man Let me come closer so you can see my face man – I mean it says right here guys Lot will be closed – I don’t give a (bleep) what it says man Aye yo, you can point at the (bleep) sign all day man I’m telling you I gotta get my car outta here man – I feel for you man I want you to get your car out but this is wet cement Watch your feet guys, don’t wanna scuff up your shoes New Jordan’s or whatever, you know what I’m saying? But this says right here we’re gonna be here today – You’re telling me that my family gotta stay right there? – For tonight – Nah – Well where’s it gonna go? Does it fly like the back to the future car? I mean what do you want me to do? – Yo are you trying to be a smart ass? – I’m not trying to be a smart ass sir I’m just trying to get this job done so it’s dry by tomorrow morning and if that car comes blazing through here I’m screwed – Then you gon’ be screwed man – Your car’s gonna get jacked up – I don’t give a (bleep) man but I need to get out – You should’ve parked over here I mean they got valet next door, you pull in here? – I park where I work – I mean you didn’t read the sign though? I mean that’s pretty, it’s like an eye test Read the top line, C-L-O-S-E-D – Ian, come on in – Yo, what the (bleep) are you doing B? – My name ain’t B, my name’s Mike, alright? I already got a problem with this guy – How am I supposed to get my car outta here man? – Pitch a tent, get some sleeping bags You’re gonna be here all night – I’m gonna build some kind of ramp man – You gotta be out here? Tell you what Ill do the genie thing for you, you’re gone How’s that? – Yo, you’re a– – Come on man Help me out – How long does it take to dry? – It’s gonna take overnight – I can’t stay here overnight – [Construction Worker] That’s why we closed the lot We closed the lot so we could have it dry – Yo, y’all better build some kind of ramp man – I’m not a ramp builder, I’m a concrete man – If you don’t build a ramp, ima start building a ramp – You’re gonna build a ramp? Well I’ll tell you what, Evil Kenevil, get on it – Alright – If you mess up my concrete we’re gonna be very upset What’s that gonna do? (laughing) That’s not gonna get your car across I’ll tell you what, I can make a (bleep) hole Why don’t you give me your cell phone – (bleep) trying to play us B – I don’t own that Do you own this? – This (bleep) trying to play us yo Why you trying to (bleep) play us like this? – I’m not trying to play anybody – You gon’ be doing this shit all night – Yeah I guess so Hey you know what? See what else you can find over there Got a kitchen sink? Yeah the broom will help you (laughing) I’ll catch that one Oh, yogi bear style You’re not helping me at all guys – Pull The Game to the side and say I’m gonna pull my car through – Help me pull this (bleep) out Ima drive over this (bleep) Help me take this (bleep) out B Yo help me take this (bleep), come on Yo ima drive through this (bleep) – I mean that was a beautiful thing – Help me with this (bleep) – [Construction Worker] Thank you – I don’t give a (bleep) about this – Hey, repave this As soon as they pull the chair out – Yo dude, help me with that thing Just get (bleep) out the way

– Hold up, time out Can we just calm down for just a second? – Nah, every time you repave it ima throw something back in it (bleep) – Ima drive through this (bleep), alright man? I can’t stay here tonight – I got a GED, you know? I work, this is what I do I’m not an idiot He’s the one that’s gonna drive his car into cement – Yo this is a rental, I don’t care about this I’m getting outta here though, I’ll tell you that You crazy – Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa – Yo look at your man – I’m going through this (bleep) yo I’m not staying here, (bleep) this (bleep) – No way (tires screeching) – What are you, nuts? (laughing) (tires screeching) – Congratulations That’s awesome Cadillac stuck in concrete, fantastic Oh – (bleep) man Yo fix that, now what you gon’ do about that? – Fix what? – Repave that – Guys, was this your idea? I mean you guys are morons to the highest degree – Step over this concrete and call me moron – I’ll step over concrete and call you moron today, tomorrow and next week or anytime Let’s do this Turn around for a second I’ve had it with this, turn around – How the (bleep) am I gonna get out of here? – You (bleep) – [Ashton] How am I gonna get outta here? You can’t Punk me! – Aye I told you though man – Don’t talk to me– – You gon’ get me while I got my (bleep) While I got my cast away going man Look man, he got me, alright? I been Punk’d man You got me man – Good time for the concrete guy (Ashton laughing) – Thanks Ashton, you got me man (bleep) Man I been Punk’d man He said he was gon’ get me, he got me man Now what the (bleep), what the (bleep) did I do? You’re next – Oh my God I’m sorry – What are you doing here? – Hi – Oh my God – What’re you doing here? – Kelly and I– – Is Kelly here? Please don’t say anything, please, okay? Please don’t say anything – I, oh my God, this is – Just please don’t ruin what Kelly and I – You’re ruining it – I mean, we were just, she was here like Hey, how you doing? Come here – I know but I’m supposed to surprise you – There’s somebody here, I’m sorry There’s somebody here – Julia’s here I called Julia ’cause I thought we were going to dinner so I called her to come over – [Julia] Hey, what’s up? What’re you doing? – [Man] Come on – [Julia] Are we going out to dinner? – No, no, they were Sorry Kelly – Are you (bleep) kidding me? – What’re you talking about? There’s nothing going on – I’m sorry I’m not your friend, I’m hers – No, no, no, Kelly – When he came out, sitting there – Kelly, come here Kelly, wait, wait, wait Come here, please real quick, real quick, one second Come here No, please, please please It was nothing going on Are you okay for a second? For just a second? – It’s not what you think – [Zoe] What’re you talking about? – I don’t know what you think you saw What did you tell her? Okay, I just wanna make something really clear Nothing happened – I know what I saw, okay? You were sitting on him and you guys were making out – What, what did you see? – You okay baby? You okay? – Actually nothing was happening So we were sitting there– – Kelly, give me a break – She was sitting on him – She was sitting right here and I was sitting right there So how could she be sitting on me? – Are you calling me a liar? Would I (bleep) lie to you? – No you wouldn’t – Exactly – You’re not supposed to be here until after 9:30 That’s what you told me – Kelly, let’s leave – No listen – I know what I saw and I will not do this to you – Zoe, what are you? That’s not– – Go (bleep) yourself – [Man] I’m not that person – Go (bleep) yourself – [Man] First of all – Yes, I know what I (bleep) saw Have more respect for this lady, okay? – I do, she’s the most – Okay alright, wait, wait, wait I wanna know one thing – He begged me to keep this between us because he didn’t want me to mess this up That you didn’t need to know Baby, baby I would not lie to you This is not worth it baby, it’s not worth it – But I really love him – What? – I think he’s the one – What? – He (bleep) asked you to? – Yes, he did – Listen, I swear Zoe’s seeing things – Why out of nowhere would I walk in and make this (bleep) up? You are worthless and I don’t even (bleep) know you – I can’t believe you’re freaking out and making this up – You were straddling him and you were (bleep) making out

with her (bleep) man Don’t (bleep) tell me that – Zoe, can we just sit down Can we sit down? – No, (bleep) you Do not even address me – [Kelly] I’m talking to her right now – You begged me to not say what I saw He was sitting here, she was on him like this and they were – You told me he had erectile dysfunction Why would I be with him? (suspenseful music) – Kelly, sweetie, listen – Just sit down for a second for me because I need to say goodbye to this (bleep) ‘Cause you and I are over – He will pay this eventually Life always comes back to you – Oh I’m not gonna pay anything, thank you – Zoe, Zoe, I have something to tell you – What? – You’ve been Punk’d – Oh my! (laughing) Oh my God, get away from me! Where’s Ashton? I hate you! This is horrible I just been Punk’d (high tempo music) – Hey Yo, yo that’s my space We were waiting for the space, what’re you doing? – What am I doing? – Yeah, we just – I’m parking there – We were just waiting right here We were waiting for like two minutes – So what? – So what? It’s rude – What you mean it’s rude? – We were waiting right there and you just saw us – So what? – [Woman] Wow – What do you mean so what? – So what? – What do you mean so what? – You’re too slow – Too slow? Why do you gotta be like that? Why do you gotta have an attitude about it? – What you mean, what you mean? – [Driver] We waited for the other car to get out so we could pull in We were waiting for another car to come out so we could pull in, we were right back there You didn’t see us? – [Driver] We waited for the other car to pull out – Yeah – [Woman] Babe, babe, babe, babe – What’s up dude? – [Driver] How you doing dude? – I’m doing good, you doing alright? Sorry about that brother, next time – Why are you patting me for? I’m not a dog – What’re you patting me for? – Because you were too slow – I’m not too slow, I was sitting right there You just moved in, it was a rude move – First of all, I didn’t know you was waiting for the space – It was sitting right there – Yeah, I saw you sitting right there – Whatever, you’re gonna be like that with the attitude – Maybe another time – Yeah, yeah, just waltz into town again and take spaces – My town man – Your town, really? I thought it was South Beach? – Both – Yeah, both, really? Oh you’re playing for two teams now? – Yes – Wow, you’re that big – Yeah, oh yeah – Yeah that’s great man – Alright, see ya – Sorry – It’s alright – Perfect, perfect (high tempo music) – [Ashton] Here comes Shaq Shaq just came out, get out of there (high tempo music) – What was that? – What was what? I’m sorry, I didn’t see – You saw that, right? – Saw what? – I’ll go get the manager – You’re in trouble brother – I didn’t do anything, what’re you talking about? – I’ll go get manager, sir – What’s going on? – You got insurance? – I didn’t do this I didn’t do nothing – Alright – Who did it? – I saw that – Karma’s a bitch man – Huh, it is? – (mumbles) manager – Is there a problem, sir? – (bleep) (foreign language) Who was that, that was you that let the air out my (bleep)? – I didn’t do that, I didn’t do that – (bleep) it’s like that? – You think I’d do that to you? Are you crazy, you think I would do that? I wouldn’t do that – Sir, sir – How stupid would I be to do that to you? – Guys, what’s going on? – He thinks I slit his tires (foreign language) – Who was it? (foreign language) – [Worker] I went to the bathroom I went to the bathroom – Alright, call the cops right now – [Manager] Okay, hold on – Bad Karma, I didn’t do anything – Yeah you did, yeah you did ‘Cause I saw you You and him – I did not do that (bleep) – Yeah (bleep) you did – Why would I do that to you? – ‘Cause you’re a (bleep) – I’d be insane You stole my spot but I wouldn’t do that – I didn’t (bleep) steal your (bleep) spot – I was waiting– – I didn’t take your (bleep) spot (laughing) – I got no idea what you’re talking about I just tried to (bleep) a parking, dude – Go, go, Andrew, go – Yo, what the (bleep) at anyway? You wanna (bleep) go to court? – I’m not gonna hurt you – Huh? Huh? You want a (bleep) lawsuit You’re (bleep) in LA now, pal (rock music) (bleep) – I’m staying back here, I’m staying back here I’m staying back here (Ashton laughing) I can’t get Punk’d, I can’t get Punk’d! I’m staying back here

Who got you, who got you, who got you? What happened, what happened? Did you get Punk’d? – You got me – Bam! – You got me I admit, he got me (Ashton laughing) – That’s assault, that’s assault! – I appreciate, you got me I told Ashton last night that he couldn’t Punk me and it took him less than 24 hours to Punk me I’m a Punk

[MUSIC PLAYING] DANA HAN-KLEIN: Hi everyone Welcome to Talks at Google Today it is my pleasure to welcome The Lonely Island for “Popstar.” ANDY SAMBERG: Yes DANA HAN-KLEIN: Thanks you guys for being here ANDY SAMBERG: Thank you for having us DANA HAN-KLEIN: Could you tell us a little bit about the film? ANDY SAMBERG: Akiva, why don’t you just tell them a little bit about the film? JORMA TACCONE: Yeah, you do it AKIVA SCHAFFER: OK It’s a movie It’s a musical movie ANDY SAMBERG: Yes AKIVA SCHAFFER: It’s a mockumentary ANDY SAMBERG: Yes JORMA TACCONE: Accurate so far AKIVA SCHAFFER: Yeah, all the pop-umentaries like Katy Perry, “Part of Me,” or Bieber, “Never Say Never.” ANDY SAMBERG: Classics SHAFFER: Or One Direction, “This is Us.” ANDY SAMBERG: Yes AKIVA SCHAFFER: I could keep going That’s the genre it’s in Do you want to get deeper? DANA HAN-KLEIN: It’s up to you ANDY SAMBERG: We were looking for an idea for a movie that we could do our comedy songs inside of and make it feel natural So we were talking about maybe doing one of those pop-umentaries as the genre Then Akiva had a general meeting, inside term, with Judd Apatow And Judd was like, I think it’d be really funny if you guys did like one of those pop-umentaries And he was like, I had the same idea, we were just talking about that And Judd said, if you guys write it, then I’ll produce it So we started writing it JORMA TACCONE: Two and a half years later, the movie’s coming out AKIVA SCHAFFER: Here we are DANA HAN-KLEIN: You made it AKIVA SCHAFFER: Can I ask a question, real quick? Does everyone here work at Google? Do you all work at this campus, like this building? Not everybody does Got it So Mountain View AUDIENCE: Boston AKIVA SCHAFFER: Boston, nice ANDY SAMBERG: Represent Bean Town Righteous kill AKIVA SCHAFFER: That’s a thing we say ANDY SAMBERG: We say righteous kill a lot AKIVA SCHAFFER: You guys can spread it around if you want DANA HAN-KLEIN: We have no means to distribute information here AKIVA SCHAFFER: It just kind of means right on, essentially JORMA TACCONE: I have a follow-up question Do you guys have any nicknames for Google? Like do you call it “Big G” or anything fun like that? AUDIENCE: Papa Googs JORMA TACCONE: Papa Goose? SHAFFER: Googs JORMA TACCONE: Papa Googs, Papa Googs All right, well it’s great to be here at Papa Googs ANDY SAMBERG: Kind of like Papa Roach AKIVA SCHAFFER: Yeah, it’s very similar JORMA TACCONE: But better DANA HAN-KLEIN: Things we aspire to, to be like Papa Roach ANDY SAMBERG: So how do you guys feel about the Hooli thing? Do you feel, like, fuck those guys? DANA HAN-KLEIN: If you want to talk about mockumentary versus documentary, I feel like that is the most accurate documentary there is That’s just me, though ANDY SAMBERG: Fair enough AKIVA SCHAFFER: So you think it’s accurate? DANA HAN-KLEIN: I think it’s pretty accurate ANDY SAMBERG: When are those guys at Pied Piper going to get it together is what I want to know It’s like they’re right there on the brink of greatness, and they just can’t get out of their own way JORMA TACCONE: Anyway, “Popstar” is great Really good movie ANDY SAMBERG: Yeah, it’ll be on HBO eventually Maybe DANA HAN-KLEIN: Speaking of “Popstar,” in terms of the process, how did you guys sort of find a balance between writing the songs and the plot? Was it a chicken and an egg scenario? ANDY SAMBERG: It was a little bit of both once we decided that this was the kind of movie we were going to make We started writing songs and brainstorming the script at the same time pretty much So we had a lot of ideas for songs that were kind of free of the story that we just thought were dumb and funny And then we’d sort of shoehorn them into the plot But then as we started writing and the story started taking shape, we would then pinpoint moments where we were like, oh, there should be this kind of a song for this character Or like we knew there was a montage sequence that was going to be about two characters getting to know each other, and maybe if they made a song together it would make more sense there Stuff like that So kind of both AKIVA SCHAFFER: That’s true JORMA TACCONE: Yeah, accurate AKIVA SCHAFFER: I’ll just fact check When they say something, I’ll fact check it DANA HAN-KLEIN: You can Google it When you guys were writing, did you take a different approach to writing the songs in this as opposed to when you’re writing like, as properly the Lonely Island? Like, musical style wise? ANDY SAMBERG: A little bit of both But a lot, yeah, because it was more specifically in character AKIVA SCHAFFER: But he could be ignorant in different ways than maybe we could as ourselves ANDY SAMBERG: But I mean similar to say, like the “Dick in a Box” dudes There is an untrustworthy narrator thing happening where my character, especially in the movie, is a bit of a dumbass So his perspective, like he was saying, was able to be inappropriate because you don’t forgive him it, but you’re able to laugh at it because you’re like, well they don’t think that The people writing it don’t think that AKIVA SCHAFFER: It’s some of both though So like, “Throw it on the Ground,” you’re obviously a character in the past ANDY SAMBERG: Mhm AKIVA SCHAFFER: And then “I’m on a Boat,” we’re ourselves But not for any real reason ANDY SAMBERG: (CORRECTING) “Threw it on the Ground.” AKIVA SCHAFFER: I’m not a big fan, I guess I don’t know the names Thanks for fact checking SAMBER: I know, I was was like, fact checker just got fact checked DANA HAN-KLEIN: Akiva and Jorma, how was it being both behind the camera and in front of the camera on this one? AKIVA SCHAFFER: It was exhausting JORMA TACCONE: Yeah, we wore so many hats

Let’s talk about it No, it was great We’ve kind of developed, all three of us, a real style over the many, many years of working together So we kind of, our short-hand is very short And then we would just get to trade off who gets to say, action, you know Like we would say, OK, your turn And then he’d be like, action And then I’d be like, cut AKIVA SCHAFFER: We’d Ro-Sham-Bo for it JORMA TACCONE: Yeah, we did a lot of Ro-Sham-Bo AKIVA SCHAFFER: It really took a lot of hours out of the day JORMA TACCONE: And people would be like, you guys And we’re like, we’re concentrating on something, shut up And then one, two, three, action ANDY SAMBERG: So it was a mess DANA HAN-KLEIN: It came out well, so it worked Is this movie like a weird, healthy way for you guys to sort of live out a parallel universe where you get to get angry at each other and creatively pick a fight? AKIVA SCHAFFER: Yes ANDY SAMBERG: Yeah, sure DANA HAN-KLEIN: It seems like a healthy, expensive form of therapy ANDY SAMBERG: It’s really the most expensive therapy there is, I guess, making a big movie Yeah, well, Kiv has been describing it as the characters are us if we were not self-aware So any roadblocks in their paths that are challenging, they kind of make the wrong decision JORMA TACCONE: Whereas we will always make the right decision All three of us ANDY SAMBERG: Always JORMA TACCONE: Always DANA HAN-KLEIN: You heard it here ANDY SAMBERG: Kiv, always AKIVA SCHAFFER: Yeah, always guys ANDY SAMBERG: Yeah JORMA TACCONE: Fact checked ANDY SAMBERG: Consensus DANA HAN-KLEIN: It’s important AKIVA SCHAFFER: Are there guys on the roof that don’t do anything? DANA HAN-KLEIN: Here? AKIVA SCHAFFER: Yeah DANA HAN-KLEIN: Yeah, I’m sure there are Yeah, there are AKIVA SCHAFFER: Are they up there lounging? DANA HAN-KLEIN: Yeah, you can check Just getting a tan AKIVA SCHAFFER: That’s awesome ANDY SAMBERG: Sweet DANA HAN-KLEIN: You guys probably had your choice of guest actors and musicians for the film Who were some of the people you were most excited to have, and was there anyone who was unfortunately unavailable for it? JORMA TACCONE: We were all pretty excited that Nas, we got Nas the rapper He used to be called Nasty Nas, now he’s just Nas Nasir Jones AKIVA SCHAFFER: He only changed it like 18 years ago, so thanks for the update JORMA TACCONE: Yeah, I know Just for the heads out there But you know, we grew up listening to him and so that was a really cool person have on set Talking about us and how he was a fan of us growing up And then Mariah Carey was another person that I was really excited to have AKIVA SCHAFFER: It wasn’t just us, it was our characters Hold on a second, we were acting and pretending, so he wasn’t a fan of us, it was our characters JORMA TACCONE: No, I felt like he was, deep down, a fan of us, as Lonely Island AKIVA SCHAFFER: We’ll talk about it JORMA TACCONE: Yeah, anyway Who were you guys excited to have on set? AKIVA SCHAFFER: Ringo ANDY SAMBERG: Ringo Starr was pretty crazy JORMA TACCONE: That was cool ANDY SAMBERG: He was in this group called The Beatles JORMA TACCONE: Yeah, they had a couple hits ANDY SAMBERG: Yeah, they were a pretty cool boy band back in the day Yeah, lots of cool people A$AP Rocky, DJ Khaled DANA HAN-KLEIN: I mean, you guys are clearly ridiculously media savvy ANDY SAMBERG: I thought you were just going to say ridiculous DANA HAN-KLEIN: That, too ANDY SAMBERG: You guys are clearly ridiculous, why don’t you go jump off the roof? DANA HAN-KLEIN: No, there’s people up there ANDY SAMBERG: RIght, we don’t want to disturb them DANA HAN-KLEIN: Don’t disturb them But I think you guys use like, social media, and like, the use of the internet in the film, really, really well But was there ever a concern that things would become passe by the time the film actually came out? JORMA TACCONE: Because of the editing process for this film, we were kind of adding to it while we were editing So that kind of changed as we went Honestly, a lot more Snapchat stuff got added as we went DANA HAN-KLEIN: What would have happened if, like, TMZ went down? ANDY SAMBERG: Oh, we would have had to make some cuts DANA HAN-KLEIN: Would it be fair to say that a lot of your notoriety and success is because of the internet and how you guys sort of were discovered? JORMA TACCONE: That would be fair ANDY SAMBERG: Yeah, I think so We always say that we were incredibly fortunate that we got on SNL kind of right when streaming became actually possible for video Like, forever, we had a website and it was a big deal that we had videos posted Or you know, you’d have to submit your video to a site that would host it And even when we were first getting it going in LA, we would tell agencies and producers and stuff we were meeting with, oh we have a website, and they were like, cool, send us a VHS tape Because it just didn’t exist yet So basically YouTube became a thing right around the time that we got on SNL and did “Lazy Sunday.” So it was very good timing for us DANA HAN-KLEIN: When “Lazy Sunday” came out, at what point did you realize that it was something special and it sort of, I feel like it changed the way that traditional TV produced for the internet Suddenly it was cool to have web shorts and it was cool to have extra content that isn’t for broadcast, necessarily ANDY SAMBERG: Well, we sat down before we wrote it, and we were like, let’s change the way DANA HAN-KLEIN: And you did just that JORMA TACCONE: We were like, people don’t say the word viral enough ANDY SAMBERG: Yeah, that is one of the funniest parts

AKIVA SCHAFFER: That’s such a negative connotation ANDY SAMBERG: For so many years, we’d meet with people who were like, we want you guys to make us a viral video where, blah blah blah And we’re like, you can’t predict if it’s going to– you can’t just say it’s viral JORMA TACCONE: So, extremely popular ANDY SAMBERG: We’d always be like, yeah, we’ll make a video, and then maybe people will watch it AKIVA SCHAFFER: I have a follow-up question to this Do you guys still have the It’s Its that are organic, but then they made them for you Like the vanilla It’s It ice cream, but the ones that are made for Google DANA HAN-KLEIN: There are some fancy It’s Its AKIVA SCHAFFER: For you guys, the ones that they made just for Google ANDY SAMBERG: They’re made for Papa Googs AKIVA SCHAFFER: No, do you not have them anymore? Do you know what I’m talking about, some employees that were here? So they don’t do that anymore ANDY SAMBERG: No Discontinued DANA HAN-KLEIN: You can get them through catering AKIVA SCHAFFER: Well, glad I asked JORMA TACCONE: Those are the Nasty Nas-heads They still exist, but not the ones that have the Google logo and are made with different organic ingredients and stuff? ANDY SAMBERG: No AKIVA SCHAFFER: No ANDY SAMBERG: It was a big deal for us because we used to get It’s It at school, they had them at our junior high AKIVA SCHAFFER: You could buy them in the cafeteria ANDY SAMBERG: And we’re like, whoa, special edition It’s It AKIVA SCHAFFER: I know, I was excited to come here for that, but whatever JORMA TACCONE: Now we’re just excited to see you guys But first it was the It’s It thing DANA HAN-KLEIN: If you can’t have It’s It, this is an acceptable second ANDY SAMBERG: Yeah, this is totally chill as well DANA HAN-KLEIN: That’s great to know Speaking of sort of earlier in your career, it’s been almost 10 years since “Hot Rod” came out What were some of the lessons that you learned from that film that you applied going into this one? AKIVA SCHAFFER: Has it been 10? I’m just curious DANA HAN-KLEIN: Not quite JORMA TACCONE: No, it’s nine AKIVA SCHAFFER: It’s be next summer JORMA TACCONE: Wow, that’s almost 10 AKIVA SCHAFFER: Next summer What were some of the lessons? ANDY SAMBERG: Just believe in yourself AKIVA SCHAFFER: Yeah, it was a lot of that ANDY SAMBERG: That if you find something funny, then eventually a lot of people will tell you they also find it funny JORMA TACCONE: They are very different films, obviously There’s a ton of music in this one, there’s less motorcycles crashing as well But it’s a totally different format AKIVA SCHAFFER: You learn something from everything that you make From even a small internet video or whatever So I wouldn’t, each thing presents its own challenges JORMA TACCONE: Even like a good Snap You know, we learn, oh man AKIVA SCHAFFER: I learn so much from a great Snap ANDY SAMBERG: No, no DANA HAN-KLEIN: What were some of the perks of doing a longer form thing because you guys have done, you’ve both done features before, you’re on a sitcom, not sitcom, but like television, 30-minute format ANDY SAMBERG: You can call it a sitcom It’s like a good sitcom DANA HAN-KLEIN: Yeah, it’s a really good sitcom Award-winning maybe ANDY SAMBERG: Yeah, once DANA HAN-KLEIN: So what were some of the challenges of adapting and what were some of the perks? I’d assume like a big budget, maybe AKIVA SCHAFFER: A good part is that you get to plan Like at SNL, we were just throwing together so much so quickly that we would never get to even location scout or plan ahead We would kind of go, it needs to be at an office and then you would just show up with the camera crew and the actors and go, OK, I guess this is our office And we’d just kind of make it up on the fly And on a movie, you get to take things a lot slower Location scout, then you could go back to location a few times before you actually shoot and build sets And I don’t know, by the time you’re shooting, it’s actually very calm because you have planned it Right? JORMA TACCONE: Yeah One of the huge advantages is to have turn around of just like you have to give the actors twelve hours and the crew twelve hours so you can at least go home and sleep Whereas at SNL, we would routinely make things and have an hour to sleep before we start editing something because it was going to be on air So that was a big advantage AKIVA SCHAFFER: Just getting to sleep is a huge difference ANDY SAMBERG: Not just in film, just in life JORMA TACCONE: Yeah, it’s really important you guys And drink water, too AKIVA SCHAFFER: Oh my god, about a life hack ANDY SAMBERG: Yeah, they don’t let you have water at SNL JORMA TACCONE: Got to save a buck or two somehow DANA HAN-KLEIN: The rumors about Lorne Michaels are true But no, he seems nice So, they say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery Has there been anybody that you sort of parodied or taken inspiration from that has turned around and revealed themselves to be a big fan? ANDY SAMBERG: Wow, what a nice version of that question JORMA TACCONE: Yeah, I thought that was going to go way darker ANDY SAMBERG: I was like, here we go We got to talk about how much we love Bieber again Which we do Who is somebody? Well, Nic Cage, for me was a crazy one I was doing him on SNL a lot, on Weekend Update And it basically came about that he was enjoying the impression and liked how psychotic it was And got the joke that it wasn’t literally him, I just found a weird character and called it Nic Cage And he came on and did it with me at Update, so we did twin Nic Cage’s Which is what SNL does

And he was really, really nice It was fun And right after we did it, the crowd cheered really loud and we walked off the Update desk stage, and he turned around and he was like, pleasure doing business with you And then just disappeared into the darkness, didn’t come to the party, no one saw him again after that moment I was like, was he ever there? JORMA TACCONE: Like, picturing that he threw a smoke bomb down and just disappeared ANDY SAMBERG: Yeah, it was awesome DANA HAN-KLEIN: I’m sure he’s hunting treasure ANDY SAMBERG: He’s out there doing something, something compelling to watch DANA HAN-KLEIN: Just very important things So well, speaking of encounters like that, you guys have clearly proven yourselves capable of entertaining yourselves at press junkets What’s been, aside from the Jimmy Fallon thing, what’s been some of your favorite sort of fan and press interactions? ANDY SAMBERG: Well, we went to Miami and went to the Latin Billboard Awards this year, which was rad It was a totally new, the whole show was in Spanish, and we speak un poquito JORMA TACCONE: It made for some awkward interviews, for sure ANDY SAMBERG: Yeah, but we did like the whole red carpet, and I presented And it wasn’t like us entertaining ourselves, but that was certainly the coolest and most different experience we had this time doing press It was really fun DANA HAN-KLEIN: What was it like, sort of living out, because you shot these huge concerts, what was it like sort of getting to live out that pop star fantasy? AKIVA SCHAFFER: We got to– ANDY SAMBERG: It was fun AKIVA SCHAFFER: It was really fun JORMA TACCONE: Super fun AKIVA SCHAFFER: During pre-production, Maroon 5 was nice enough to let us go to one of their arena shows, like a sold out arena show And two minutes before they would go on stage, they let us run up on stage It was just me and Jorm, just with mics, like– JORMA TACCONE: Hi, guys Hi, 20,000 people AKIVA SCHAFFER: We were like, Andy’s about to come out He’s dressed like this guy, his name’s Connor Someone literally booed when I said that Boo! JORMA TACCONE: Already? AKIVA SCHAFFER: They wanted him to be called Andy, and I was like, so call him Connor, and he was like, boo But we had cameras there and it was kind of just almost a camera test But then a lot of the footage we actually put in We just shot Andy in slow-mo for two minutes just running around, acting like a superstar It kind of gave us a true image of what it should look like if it’s a full arena, because it is And the footage is like the trailers and stuff Was that neat for you, Andy, to run out there and slap 5? ANDY SAMBERG: It was super-neat It was two minutes of pure heaven DANA HAN-KLEIN: But there are a lot of, sort of, absurd moments within the film during the concerts What was sort of the level one of one upmanship because some things that happened to both your characters are, I don’t even know how to describe them ANDY SAMBERG: Comedically awful? DANA HAN-KLEIN: Sure, let’s go with that ANDY SAMBERG: Comedically awful That’s the review of the movie JORMA TACCONE: I was going to say like, outrageous, but I guess comedically awful Yeah, I think that we were pleasantly surprised when we were screening the movie that a lot of the crazier jokes were getting the reaction that we had Because we obviously love sort of more over the top kind of bits And so that was pleasantly surprising and there are some things that, one incident that you’re referring to that you’re kindly not blowing the joke for, but yeah, is quite outrageous And comedically awful AKIVA SCHAFFER: Andy had to shave everything ANDY SAMBERG: I shaved every inch of my body for this part AKIVA SCHAFFER: It’s a kind of DeNiro, Brando-level commitment ANDY SAMBERG: I would say that’s a fair comparison JORMA TACCONE: And if you want to spread that around, you can ANDY SAMBERG: Yeah JORMA TACCONE: Anybody could say that ANDY SAMBERG: It doesn’t matter who said it first Whether it was our camp or your camp DANA HAN-KLEIN: It’s the internet, nobody actually checks ANDY SAMBERG: Yeah, exactly It’s just words, just words JORMA TACCONE: There’s no time to fact check for real ANDY SAMBERG: But yeah, I don’t highly recommend shaving every part of your body Your spouse doesn’t like how it looks DANA HAN-KLEIN: Were there ever any points where you guys were just like, this is too much? Or was it just sort of, did you keep plussing all of it? AKIVA SCHAFFER: You just decide in editing JORMA TACCONE: Yeah, but no we didn’t pull back at all really We pulled back on one joke There’s quite a few DVD extras in this movie, there’s about an hour-and-a-half of extras It’s maybe more than the actual movie DANA HAN-KLEIN: A full feature worth of extras JORMA TACCONE: Yeah, it’s a full feature DANA HAN-KLEIN: I’m going to ask this question just because it’s been in the news a bunch But there’s talk of the junk in one of the shots I hope I’m not ruining this for everyone JORMA TACCONE: Oh, that’s what I thought you were talking about earlier DANA HAN-KLEIN: I’m talking about more of his scene earlier ANDY SAMBERG: There’s a wardrobe malfunction scene that she was referencing, but then there’s also a limo scene with some junk DANA HAN-KLEIN: Whose junk is that? ANDY SAMBERG: Well JORMA TACCONE: We are not going to say DANA HAN-KLEIN: Because some people have claimed that it’s their junk

ANDY SAMBERG: Well, we’ve heard that it got out that it was Judd Apatow’s And we’re not really allowed to confirm or deny that AKIVA SCHAFFER: I think you should ask him I have a feeling he’ll say yes To be fair though, we do want to, we should go on record saying that he didn’t want it to be nepotism or just because he’s a producer He’d been sending us the audition pictures in our email for weeks, even before we had written the scene ANDY SAMBERG: It was unclear whether or not it was like– INTERVIEW: He was just planting the seed JORMA TACCONE: Yeah, the subject line would just be like, better lighting ANDY SAMBERG: Might have been just a dick pic sitch AKIVA SCHAFFER: Yeah, he just wanted us to see it in different lighting, different scenarios, where he had different shirts And then what it would look like pressed on glass, all kinds of things ANDY SAMBERG: Yeah AKIVA SCHAFFER: So he would just send us those and then he said, just throw this in the mix Put it in, take my name off it, put it in with all the other pics you guys are going to be looking through And he wanted to win the role naturally, based on talent, and not based on just because he’s a producer And then he won the role JORMA TACCONE: He did DANA HAN-KLEIN: I think that shows a lot of artistic integrity AKIVA SCHAFFER: Exactly ANDY SAMBERG: On all of our parts JORMA TACCONE: He’s a great producer AKIVA SCHAFFER: On all of our parts On us especially ANDY SAMBERG: Definitely on our part, too DANA HAN-KLEIN: I’m glad it worked out We’ll take audience questions and if people want to line up All right, so you guys are from the Bay ANDY SAMBERG: Hells yells AKIVA SCHAFFER: Correct JORMA TACCONE: Yeah, Berkley ANDY SAMBERG: How about them Dubs? Ooh! [CHEERING AND CLAPPING] DANA HAN-KLEIN: If you could go back in time and tell your Berkeley High selves one piece of advice, what would it be? ANDY SAMBERG: Don’t change a thing JORMA TACCONE: Don’t change anything Your sense of humor at 12 will be your sense of humor at hecka old ANDY SAMBERG: Or like that one time, you don’t have to take quite that many shrooms [LAUGHTER] DANA HAN-KLEIN: You’re not going to go with don’t ever shave? ANDY SAMBERG: It will still be fun without that extra few JORMA TACCONE: They’ll kick in eventually ANDY SAMBERG: Yeah, just wait Just wait, it’s coming DANA HAN-KLEIN: Stay the course ANDY SAMBERG: Yeah, stay the course AUDIENCE: Hi, I’m Courtney It’s actually my 21st birthday, and this is probably the best present I could ever have ANDY SAMBERG: Happy birthday JORMA TACCONE: Today? AUDIENCE: Yeah JORMA TACCONE: All right ANDY SAMBERG: You know you can drink now? AUDIENCE: Yes ANDY SAMBERG: That’s so wild AUDIENCE: Yes, though I told my parents that I’d probably be more, it’d be more likely that I pass out from meeting you guys than drinking today AKIVA SCHAFFER: Do both [LAUGHTER] ANDY SAMBERG: But drink responsibly Who’s looking out for Courtney tonight? Who’s designated driver? You? DANA HAN-KLEIN: That’s what self-driving cars are for ANDY SAMBERG: Come on Oh yeah, you can just Uber it JORMA TACCONE: Yeah, just do that DANA HAN-KLEIN: No, we have the self-driving cars AKIVA SCHAFFER: The Google cars ANDY SAMBERG: Oh yeah, the Google cars AUDIENCE: So, I love you guys ANDY SAMBERG: Those are safe, right? Unless there is a red light AKIVA SCHAFFER: Those ones do it Those are the ones that just drive all over the place, right? ANDY SAMBERG: Do they? AKIVA SCHAFFER: Yeah ANDY SAMBERG: Kiv, well, do you want to tell it, about your Tesla? AKIVA SCHAFFER: I mean, I have the Tesla and it will just run a red light ANDY SAMBERG: It’s only what’s in front of it So it’s not like, hey, check out the signage AKIVA SCHAFFER: No, you’re just texting and doing whatever you want because Barry’s driving That’s what I call it, Barry JORMA TACCONE: But to be fair, he’s got a real lead foot AKIVA SCHAFFER: Barry has a bit of a lead foot And he’ll just, he’ll float through that sucker ANDY SAMBERG: Anyway, sorry What was your question? AUDIENCE: So I love you guys and I love “Brooklyn Nine-Nine,” Andy It’s the one show that I always bug people to watch ANDY SAMBERG: Awesome Thank you for that AUDIENCE: So I was wondering when is the rest of Lonely Island going to be on “Brooklyn Nine-Nine”? JORMA TACCONE: Oh, hard-hitting question ANDY SAMBERG: There was talk of Jorm being on last season, but he was so busy with this movie that it didn’t work out But I’m sure in the future he will And Kiv doesn’t really ever want to act JORMA TACCONE: But he could AKIVA SCHAFFER: Now that I’m in this movie, guys, I have caught the bug ANDY SAMBERG: He’s constantly doing like vocal exercises and body movement stuff AKIVA SCHAFFER: I’m very into movement ANDY SAMBERG: Very into movement But yeah, hopefully AUDIENCE: And since Jake was kind of based on you in the beginning, how do you think Jake is kind of differed from you since he’s kind of become his own person at this point? ANDY SAMBERG: Well, aside from that he’s a cop, and you know I ain’t no pig [LAUGHTER] I don’t know, he’s got like dysfunctional family stuff that he’s working through, and he’s much smarter than me as well AKIVA SCHAFFER: He talks faster ANDY SAMBERG: He talks way faster JORMA TACCONE: The main difference ANDY SAMBERG: He’s kind of like the Cumberbatch of the comedy world, I guess AKIVA SCHAFFER: I have noticed you guys usually have the same haircut ANDY SAMBERG: Yeah, me and Jake? AKIVA SCHAFFER: Especially when you guys are shooting ANDY SAMBERG: Jake and I usually have the same haircut What are you doing for your birthday tonight? AUDIENCE: I don’t really know yet I’m mostly working here for the rest of the day

JORMA TACCONE: Guys, take her out ANDY SAMBERG: Just cover your ears for a second (WHISPERING) Is there a secret cake? (SPEAKING NORMALLY) Cover your ears (WHISPERING) Is there a secret cake? Is it made of It’s It? AUDIENCE: Thank you so much for answering my questions ANDY SAMBERG: Happy birthday JORMA TACCONE: Absolutely, happy birthday AUDIENCE: First of all, thank you guys for “Lazy Sunday.” I think, this is my personal opinion, but I think YouTube is what it is because of that video So thank you ANDY SAMBERG: Thank you AUDIENCE: Not on behalf of YouTube or Google ANDY SAMBERG: I think they probably would’ve figured it out But, yeah AUDIENCE: I’ve read that you guys met in junior high or camp, I’m not sure which one it is Maybe both AKIVA SCHAFFER: Junior high, for us AUDIENCE: Can you tell us your meet cute? Like, do you remember how you guys met? Can you tell us some stories about that? AKIVA SCHAFFER: Well, yeah Well, me and Andy were chatting up some girls, and then we saw Jorm and he was being bullied [LAUGHTER] JORMA TACCONE: You guys, don’t laugh Bullying is like a real thing AKIVA SCHAFFER: We were like, ladies, hold on, put it on ice for a second They were cool, they chilled JORMA TACCONE: They took their sunglasses down AKIVA SCHAFFER: Then we went over there ANDY SAMBERG: And we were like, we got a problem here, fellas? AKIVA SCHAFFER: And obviously, they backed down JORMA TACCONE: Obviously AKIVA SCHAFFER: And Jorm was like, (FAKE STUTTERING) f-f-fellas, thank you ANDY SAMBERG: T-t-thanks, guys JORMA TACCONE: Where are you guys g-g-g-onna eat lunch? ANDY SAMBERG: Do you want to share Lunchables? JORMA TACCONE: And then we all had It’s Its together ANDY SAMBERG: So you should probably mention, we’ve been paid by It’s It to be here JORMA TACCONE: All right, we’ll go with that AKIVA SCHAFFER: All right, thank you AUDIENCE: Hey guys Thank you for the digital shorts They’re brilliant ANDY SAMBERG: Thank you AUDIENCE: Jorm, you’ve been on the set of “Girls.” Does Lena Dunham ever wear any clothes? JORMA TACCONE: Not in one of the scenes that, one of our longest scenes No, she was wearing just a mesh top the whole time And it was maybe more impressive, seeing her direct simultaneously and then act and readjust her lines So she’s like rewriting, directing, and also being nude at the same time And you’re just like, this, she’s incredible, she’s really incredible Yeah, but she wore clothes the rest of the time AUDIENCE: Hey guys, thanks for being here I’m also a big fan of the digital shorts and I was hoping you could talk a little bit about your writing process Like, how do you go from like, we should write a song about banging each other’s moms, to actually deciding which ones to carry through? Are there any you wish you’d done? How do you go from idea to a full-length video? Any you wish you hadn’t done? ANDY SAMBERG: Right, right AKIVA SCHAFFER: Plenty ANDY SAMBERG: Most of them Well that one, specifically, was because it was Mother’s Day AUDIENCE: Naturally ANDY SAMBERG: It was the Mother’s Day episode JORMA TACCONE: Trying to give a gift that just kept on giving ANDY SAMBERG: It happens all kinds of ways I mean, that was a rare case where it was actually motivated by something “Dick in a Box” was the same, it was the Christmas episode AKIVA SCHAFFER: Specifically at SNL for those ones– I mean, we knew something had to be on TV that Saturday and it would be Tuesday And a lot of times we’d stay up all night, and if we were really lucky we would have come to it But a lot of times we wouldn’t JORMA TACCONE: That would be really lucky AKIVA SCHAFFER: And then a lot of times we’d stay up all night Wednesday, and we would then stay up all night Thursday until basically challenging ourselves to think of something better And sometimes, like for instance with “Motherlover,” the idea was cracked on Tuesday and we kept trying to make it better No, I guess on that one we settled down We settled on that on Tuesday JORMA TACCONE: Yeah, the “Golden Rule.” AKIVA SCHAFFER: The third one, we had the idea Tuesday but didn’t trust it and kept trying to top it Until eventually, like on Wednesday night, all right we’ve go to do it JORMA TACCONE: And Timberlake kept saying, guys we got it ANDY SAMBERG: Like, that’s a great idea, let’s just do that We’re like, no, no, we’ve got to be sure He was like, no, do it, it’s funny AKIVA SCHAFFER: Yeah, but that’s our basic process ANDY SAMBERG: And then once we say like, OK, that’s the premise, then we put the beat that we’re going to record on on a loop And we just sit there with pads or on our computers and write as many joke ideas as possible Or like little pieces of verses and read them to each other out loud and go like, help me finish this line I have this set-up that I think is funny, what’s the punchline, what rhymes with this? And sort of cobble it all together AKIVA SCHAFFER: Then we put it all together like, who has the best first line? Oh, actually your line would be good first and then we should do this one of mine So we kind of group write it at that point ANDY SAMBERG: Then we just light a bunch of candles and I just let the harmonies flow AUDIENCE: Well, thank you ANDY SAMBERG: Thanks JORMA TACCONE: Thank you AUDIENCE: Hi, thanks again for being here I love “Brooklyn Nine-Nine.” ANDY SAMBERG: Thank you Very cool AUDIENCE: I think my dad might be Captain Holt’s long lost twin, but– ANDY SAMBERG: Nice AUDIENCE: We can chat about that later ANDY SAMBERG: Is he that dry? AUDIENCE: Yeah I’m also wondering, really my brother’s wondering, when will there be a “Hot Rod 2”?

JORMA TACCONE: Yeah, when? ANDY SAMBERG: 1990 never? JORMA TACCONE: When pigs fly I mean, not like we’d be opposed to it, but it’s not like that made a killing in da box office AKIVA SCHAFFER: I mean, thanks for the question JORMA TACCONE: Good answer AUDIENCE: Thanks for coming, guys Could you tell us about how you were able stick together through your whole career, particularly like through auditioning for SNL? How you got them to take all three of you? JORMA TACCONE: Just the money, right? We just want money? ANDY SAMBERG: Woah News to me No we’re– AKIVA SCHAFFER: No, I mean, we got very lucky at that moment That’s probably the closest we’ve ever come to having it be that we would have really been on different paths, was when we were getting considered by SNL and they had met all three of us But then Andy auditioned and then there was a moment, basically JORMA TACCONE: Four days where he was hired AKIVA SCHAFFER: Where we kind of knew he was hired and we weren’t sure if they were going to say, hey, we have one writing position and it can be one of the two of you There was no way for them to know we turned in a writing packet, but all three of us together had written it They didn’t know us well enough to be like, oh, we want that one or that one So it would have been kind of arbitrary So I think they knew they either had to hire both of us or none of us JORMA TACCONE: But I mean, they didn’t have to And then we had a little pact, that was if two guys got hired, the second guy, who is as a writer, would not take the job so that the two of us could continue to work together AKIVA SCHAFFER: Because the worst would be for one guy to get left So we made that pact But also we weren’t going to like hold Andy back if he got hired from going on his own ANDY SAMBERG: And you never did AUDIENCE: Hey guys, huge fan I actually took the day off to be an extra in the movie JORMA TACCONE: Oh, have you seen it? AUDIENCE: Yeah me and that guy in the front JORMA TACCONE: Did you make the cut? Was it at the forum? AUDIENCE: So that’s what my question is, did I make the cut? AKIVA SCHAFFER: You’re all over it ANDY SAMBERG: What was the stuff? AUDIENCE: So it was at the Englewood auditorium So I was in the Bin Laden one, so I was like this up against the stage ANDY SAMBERG: Yeah, definitely AUDIENCE: Recognize me? JORMA TACCONE: We’ll go back through the footage ANDY SAMBERG: Oh, yeah, yeah AUDIENCE: Yeah, thank you ANDY SAMBERG: Yeah AUDIENCE: I know, I was also holding the sign that said, I love kid contact ANDY SAMBERG: Oh, yeah That might be in JORMA TACCONE: That part did not get used ANDY SAMBERG: No, that’s not in AUDIENCE: So that was the second part to the question is, I know that we filmed like a lot of songs Did all of them make it into the movie or is there just going to be just Criterion release? JORMA TACCONE: That one did, so yeah, your odds are better And you guys, go see the movie to support her Really important AUDIENCE: I’m expecting my check in the mail, too ANDY SAMBERG: Yes No, not all the songs are in the movie But they are all on the soundtrack, which is chock full of extras AKIVA SCHAFFER: It’s kind of going back to an earlier question ANDY SAMBERG: Yeah AKIVA SCHAFFER: We wrote many, many, many songs Then we whittled them down ANDY SAMBERG: Yes JORMA TACCONE: How many songs do you think we wrote? AKIVA SCHAFFER: I think we wrote 40 songs, let’s say JORMA TACCONE: OK AKIVA SCHAFFER: Or maybe 50 even, then we whittled it down to like, our favorite 25 And then we shot 15 of them And then of those 15, well there’s about 15 in the movie, right? In one way or another But then the soundtrack has 25 JORMA TACCONE: But there’s a song with Akon that we shot the whole thing and we loved, and it just didn’t work plot wise so that is not in the movie AKIVA SCHAFFER: I would say there are four songs that would be among the strongest songs that just couldn’t fit story wise DANA HAN-KLEIN: When it comes down to cutting songs like that, do you guys tend to agree or is there ever a sort of discord amongst you? Are there tiebreakers? Aside from Ro-Sham-Bo AKIVA SCHAFFER: There are strong discussions JORMA TACCONE: Yeah, strong discussions ANDY SAMBERG: But generally, it’s to do with what serves the story best And there’s something freeing about knowing that there would be a soundtrack where they would live so we wouldn’t have spent time on something that we really liked and know that it would just disappear JORMA TACCONE: Usually if one of us has a problem with an idea, there is something slightly flawed about it And then us all discussing together and fixing whatever that problem is just makes it better at the end DANA HAN-KLEIN: Aw JORMA TACCONE: Thanks Democracy rules, you guys DANA HAN-KLEIN: We’ll take our last two audience questions GOLDIE: Hi guys, great to meet you, I’m Goldie I’ve been a huge fan of yours since “Awesometown,” which had the best song intro ever Any plans for “Awesometown” the movie or the musical? JORMA TACCONE: No, that’s the other question we get a lot Which, it’s very nice that people like it, by the way that song was completely ripped off from “Fraggle Rock,” even the “clap clap” kind of thing But just changed enough so we wouldn’t get sued No, there’s no immediate plans for “Awesometown.” AKIVA SCHAFFER: No ANDY SAMBERG: Our kind of, our real lives are kind of “Awesometown.” AKIVA SCHAFFER: Aw JORMA TACCONE: Aw

ANDY SAMBERG: Fuck you, Kiv AKIVA SCHAFFER: That’s fair AUDIENCE: Thanks for coming in today Aside from It’s It, are you guys excited about anything else being back in the Bay Area? ANDY SAMBERG: Besides the Warriors? I was at game seven with my dad, it was fucking awesome Yeah, just coming home and seeing our families and smelling dat good air JORMA TACCONE: We’re Gordo Taqueria guys Arinell’s, in Berkeley You’re talking about food, right? Like other food that we like? AUDIENCE: Yeah, anything Thanks DANA HAN-KLEIN: So are you guys ever attempted to expand into other sorts of mediums? Because if you did a Broadway play, you could theoretically be the first people to EGOT because of a song about a dick in a box ANDY SAMBERG: That’s true DANA HAN-KLEIN: Is there a temptation there? ANDY SAMBERG: Well, who should we get to do the Timberlake part on Broadway because he’ll never do AKIVA SCHAFFER: Stamos? ANDY SAMBERG: Stamos [LAUGHTER] Done DANA HAN-KLEIN: Great ANDY SAMBERG: We’ll make the call DANA HAN-KLEIN: We look forward to it I think my last question for you guys is, if you had to each bring one album with you to a deserted, lonely island, what would it be? ANDY SAMBERG: It’s so hard to say without sounding like a dick AKIVA SCHAFFER: For me, just like a sound effects CD Just like goofy sound effects, just to make me giggle JORMA TACCONE: Like fart sounds and stuff? AKIVA SCHAFFER: Yeah and just city sounds, like the sound of a door slamming JORMA TACCONE: That’s actually kind of probably smart You know what I mean because you’ll probably miss civilization AKIVA SCHAFFER: Comforting sounds, you know There you go That’s what I was trying to say ANDY SAMBERG: Maybe like “Blood on the Tracks.” JORMA TACCONE: I don’t know Probably Yo-Yo Ma Just best of DANA HAN-KLEIN: He just out-classed you guys ANDY SAMBERG: Just best of Yo-Yo Ma? JORMA TACCONE: I like what I like AKIVA SCHAFFER: Just the hits ANDY SAMBERG: You know, the one that he does JORMA TACCONE: Just the ones that get me hyped ANDY SAMBERG: So basically, just like the “Crouching Tiger” soundtrack Well I mean, that’d be one of them AKIVA SCHAFFER: Just the number one’s DANA HAN-KLEIN: Well thank you guys so much for joining us today “Popstar” will be in theaters, everyone should go see it ANDY SAMBERG: Thanks, guys This was super fun [APPLAUSE] [MUSIC PLAYING]

it’s so good to see everyone here at a live church that’s a great day and I’m glad you’re here welcome other campuses as well twin peaks and those of you Church online I’m so glad you’re joining us as we continue this series you know I want to start this weekend by saying thanks to a group of our guys our campus pastors and a couple of tech guys we had a lightning strike here on Thursday night in the middle of night and destroyed a lot of the stuff that would make the services happen and they probably put in 80 to 100 hours the last two days just to make get us up to about seventy percent of what we normally are ya thanks guys you’re awesome a great group of guys you know what’s funny is they didn’t even let me know about it until I happened on them down here working I’m all you guys doing and there’s just a good group of guys and I appreciate that so much so we started this series last weekend called SNL salt and light and we start out by talking about the church that we are a big deal not a live church but the church we are and we don’t want to forget that that we’re a church part of the church and it’s a movement that started back because of Jesus resurrection now I have this engine up here and I mean any excuse to put something like that on the stage with me I’m digging it but I put this up here and we started talking about how you know there was this muscle-car movement the starting in the 60s the v8 engine is what allowed that to happen if it weren’t for the v8 engine I mean in this a cool engine guys I love it I had to find I got a friend that he’s got three engines and I was I went over his place and this one happens to be rebuilt it’s for sale and everything and I really didn’t want to Ford but it was the only one that’s clean enough to put on the stage so oh come on you guys are Ford people you need to really pray about whether or not you’re in the right Church oh god save us so the v8 engine allowed this movement in this movement the muscle car movement is continued today I mean we’re still doing the retro look and you know even though we’re going toward more economy it’s still it’s incredible but well the church movement is a movement two started with the disciples speaking about jesus resurrection and what’s different about the church then today is they were speaking about something that happened just a couple hundred yards away as Peter starts the the first message of the church and it’s a big deal Jesus walked among them and that day 3,000 people become followers of Christ a few weeks later 5,000 men and within a matter of a few weeks nearly twenty percent of the population became followers of Christ just within weeks it’s a big deal it’s a powerful movement it’s bold it’s kind of like the v8 engine it’s just got power and muscle and that’s who we are we don’t want to forget that we don’t want to forget that we said last weekend that the message of Jesus Christ is always one generation away from extinction and so that’s the importance of this teaching that’s the importance for us as a church in the church is that this movement now we are stewards of this movement it’s in our hands to see it continue I’m so glad that these guys the disciples did a great job getting it out of the first century now it’s our job to continue on and as we look at this we’re talking about salt and light we said last weekend we are salt and light jesus said that we’re salt and light we’re the picture of moving this movement forward called the the church in Jesus resurrection I want to talk this weekend about how do we make a difference as we do that as stewards now if you have your phones take them out I’m going to ask you a question I want you give me some feedback which it text me Twitter me facebook when you guys can write it right there in the chat room and I’m going to read the answers here at the end and this is important to really show and one of our points this morning and what we’re talking about and how we feel here’s the question now what you know right away this is a real insight or question and I’m doing that on purpose usually we don’t do things like this but I’m doing this on purpose because that’s something I’m going to be talking about here in a few minutes so are you a tuner or a gearhead and some of your going what what is that and that’s why I’m asking that question that way and I’m sorry you feel left out but I want you to feel left out because that’s what kind of what we’re talking about today tuner or gearhead some of you guys right away you’re like I know what you’re talking about some of you have no idea how many had no idea yeah cool that’s

great so what are your tuner or gearhead now I kind of teased last weekend some of the especially the next generation I said yeah the only way you can get smoked out of your tires muscle cars man it’s going straight down and power the only way you can get smoked out of your tires just to slide sideways you remember that and that ties into the tuner I’ll tie didn’t hear a few moments but it’s called drifting and actually I’m a fan of all motorsports so I I really do like drifting and I think the guys who drive in drifting are incredible drivers but a lot of you again are clueless you’re like we have no idea what you’re talking about drifting so i thought because i’m gonna use drifting as my illustration this morning I thought I’d better show you what drifting is so that you can understand what tuner is you guys ready for it here’s drifting what’s this yeah right i mean out care who you are you shall clip like that i’m going to that church so that’s what drifting is it’s a big sport movies fast and furious made it very popular over the last several years that’s drifting very skilled drivers and i’m going to talk to you a little bit more about drifting in our lives and as a church now we know drifting even in different ways for instance we would probably say I understand drifting more this week I was actually driving down the highway i 10 goes through our city and i was passing a semi truck and as i’m passing the truck he’s drifting into my lane y’all know talked about yeah he wasn’t drifting on purpose like the guys are in the sport drifting he’s just kind of well he’s fading drifting into my lane was he dressed guess what i do i’m drifting out of my lane yeah forces me to drift so we’re going to talk a little bit about really purposefully drifting because as a church as individuals as far as a christ we kind of get we start drifting one way or the other so let’s choose how we’re going to drift and that’s how we make a difference now what we’re talking about today if you have your Bibles turn to Acts chapter 15 this is really the reason that most people leave church or quit church give up on Church some of you have had family members who tried you hear them say things like I tried the church thing or the god thing it just didn’t work and they quit church some of you you’re back and you’re trying again and this may be the reason that you or your parents your family members they quit church this is a big deal and it started happening clear back in the early church we’re about 20 years after the resurrection Acts chapter 15 and we see this problem starting to arise in the early church and it still is a struggle for us today John chapter 1 verse 14 i want you to see the words of Jesus before i get into acts 15 and you guys have this one so let’s read this together out loud all of our campuses the word became flesh and made his dwelling among us we’ve seen his glory the glory of the one and only who came from the father full of grace and truth say that last line again be full of grace and truth now I want you to see this it doesn’t say that Jesus is balanced in grace and truth because honestly when we read that that’s what we tend to think of but I need a little more balance in my life of grace and truth that’s not what Jesus was he was full of grace and truth you see in our lives it’s kind of like the battle between grace and truth Oh too much grace too much truth you know too much law too much just God’s grace and you can think you can do anything you want no it’s not a battle it’s a unity of grace and truth he wasn’t one or the other either or he embodied grace and truth in other words I’m not cleaning up my life before I come to Christ I’m allowing him to clean up in my life it’s not that I’m lowering standards so that everybody can come to Christ no that’s not it it’s it’s not that forgiveness is dumb down it’s not that grace is dumb down one or the other it’s not that even moral imperatives are dumb down it’s the unity of the two and that’s hard for us as human beings we tend to live in one or the other so how do we do this this is what it will make a difference for us this is what takes the movement forward it’s how we make a difference I put it

in your notes this is the kind of the key for the day live how Jesus lived love how Jesus loved do what Jesus did and if we’ll do that and we do it with grace and truth in fact I put at the end of that statement that’s how we do it is the unity not one of the other but the unity of grace and truth read that statement with me now you’ve written you filled in the blanks of three together live how Jesus lived love how Jesus loved do what Jesus did how do you do it in the unity of grace and truth not one or the other not even a balance of those two but the unity of those two and I know even as I say it’s let me go yeah I’m a little more grace than truth or some of your little more truth and grace and I understand that and even as I’m preparing I get that for me my wife night after this teaching last night she twins were going home she goes yeah but one’s really easy for many other I know that’s the way we are but this is what we’re to live for this is what we’re to strive for the unity of grace and truth not butting heads it’s like this I have young pastors all the time you know any time you succeed a little bit and we’re not some major success but you succeeded something and and and whoever’s coming behind you says why what makes that work for you so even in speaking I’ll have younger pastors say what is it that you drink on stage maybe that’s the key to making this work for us I have a very special formula that I drink of liquid during the teachings it’s it’s a it’s a it’s a mixture of two parts hydrogen one part oxygen h2o you know here’s the deal what makes water is not hydrogen it’s not oxygen it’s the mixture it’s the unity of those two in fact one of my smart staff members this week we’re saying did you realize that it’s hydrogen and oxygen they’re just your breathing them in all the time and we all start sitting around talking about that would be like you’re out in the middle of desert and you don’t have any water you could say we’ll just breathe deeper you’ve already got the hydrogen oxygen you should have water although some of you you’ve lived in places where the humidity is enough you feel like you’re breathing in water right well it doesn’t work that way it still has to be that special unity of hydrogen and oxygen to part hydrogen one part oxygen and already some of your taking my illustration too far it’s two parts grace or two parts drink I’m not saying it’s the unity of the two that makes water it’s not one without the other without them being unified all you have is hydrogen and oxygen without grace and truth being unified you don’t have a picture of Christ that’s us we are to unite grace and truth in our lives so here the early church was wrestling with is I’m gonna give you a couple things and we’ll just look at Acts chapter 15 you have your Bibles open they’re always drift toward outsiders talking about drifting or by remembers what drifting is right yeah okay remember it’s like the semi-truck you’re getting out so we’re gonna choose always drift toward outsiders avoid drifting toward insiders say that with me always drift toward outsiders avoid drifting toward insights Varner’s research shows that after somebody has been a follower of Christ for six years the average American Christian has zero people in their lives that are no longer Christians or don’t within their church they’ve become very insider focus the average Christian Church in America once it’s 14 years old quits growing quits having new people come because they’ve become very insider focus it is by nature built within us that we just become focused on us we need to choose and say we are always going to drift toward outsiders why because that’s what this movement is built on that’s what the movement of Christ and His resurrection is built on his Jesus came to seek and save the lost acts chapter 15 here’s what’s going on in the church it says this while Paul and Barnabas were at Antioch of Syria now here’s here’s what’s happened so we’re several years after the resurrection the movement has started a followers of Jesus followers of the way now Paul has gone out to start other churches and if you’ve ever seen a map in the back of your Bible if you have a still if you don’t use you version you have a physical Bible there’s maps back there and sometimes you flip through what are those well it shows where Paul took his missionary journeys and two of them shows that he planted churches and he traveled by boat he went from country to country and he’s in between now his his missionary trips while he’s out planting starting churches there’s this controversy that starts brewing back where the church is started and that’s where we’re at in Acts chapter 15 and

this really this controversy really again it brings up the question of why do people lead to church the question that they asked was really who can be a part of the church so here we go on in X 15 1 and 2 some men from Judea arrive and begin to teach the believers unless you are circumcised as required by the law of Moses you cannot be saved what are they saying you imagine men that all set your follow Christ for a couple years and now all the sudden they’re saying hey guys by the way we’ve got to tell you about the surgery you have to have you know unless you’re circumcised you see the law before Christ came with grace there were 613 laws that you had to keep in order to be a godly person somebody who followed after God that’s why we live in grace 613 laws and one of the signs the Covenant sign that you were a follower of god was that you had circumcision that the menu had circumcision can you imagine the membership class at church I mean I’m thinking about that we do it its Discoverer alive and I’m thinking man it’s just the women and children and the guys are sitting out in the car going I’m really having to think about this babe I don’t know you know so that’s the question is saying really we have to keep the law what they’re saying here is now not only do if you’re going to follow Christ you also have to follow Moses by the way we do have a class that will help you understand how you can be a part of a live it’s called discover live the next one is Sunday October fifth or october seven second 5 p.m. i’d love to have you and I promise you there’s no surgeries involved okay and just come and be a part I’d love to get to know you on first-name basis and show you how you can connect with us living how Jesus lived loving how Jesus loved doing what Jesus did in the unity of grace and truth that’s what we’re about now it’s all about continually drifting toward outsiders that’s why we do things if you were here last weekend like the investment invite card several of you filled this out last week you have it again this week pull it out if you would just right now if you didn’t get a chance to fill this out I want to encourage you to do it right now all of our staff started two weeks ago fill this out ourselves last week there were about 200 people filled in three names of three names are about 200 names that we were given and we are just praying for people and what we’re saying is names of people you want to invest your life into that either are not followers of Christ or don’t have a church home and we’re going to join with you and partner together and we’re having a big deal here in a couple weeks as we start this series called courageous to go along with the movie it’s going to be a big kick-off deal and we’re saying let’s invest in their lives and invite them that weekend to the beast feast y’all remember that bees face is coming up we got a couple of things for the kids that day it’s going to be a fun day but that’s why we do things like this because what I know about you is every time you invite a friend or loved one that you’ve invested your life into to this church and they walk through those doors you look at what we do very different you see if you’re starting to think well that’s all about me then all of a sudden you want us just to keep you happy this is too loud or but when you bring that friend for the first time that you’ve invested relationship in that we can you are hoping we are spot on and suddenly you see the church very different through different eyes that’s why it’s important that we continue to drift toward outsiders not toward insiders if we’re going to live like Jesus lived love like Jesus love and do what he did living in the unity of grace and truth second thing always drift toward grace everybody said grace avoid drifting toward legalism you see the longer we follow Jesus hopefully the more we’re growing to be more like him to live like he lived love like he loved do what he did living in unity and grace we have to purposefully though drift toward grace even last night as we’re going home Kathy said you know what though it’s so nice just to have rules because that’s easy you know if you did it or you didn’t do it I said no wait a minute honey you guys think about that there were 613 rules I said what you’re saying is it would be easy to live if you and I could make up the rules we would come up with three rules but I said somebody’s going to come along and say wait a minute we need more rules we need different rules I said who’s going to make the rules it’s not easier it’s impossible and that’s what’s happening in Scripture here purposely drifting towards grace acts 15 here we see it this is what they’re saying now they’re wrestling with who tis to be a part of the church God knows people’s hearts read that line with me God knows people’s hearts who knows people’s hearts god I don’t you don’t you don’t know my heart I don’t know your heart here’s what you know here’s what I know

I know your habits I can see what you do I see what you look like I can see your attitude I see what you say I see how you dress I see what you put on your body and that’s how we judge people who am I thought we weren’t supposed to judge yeah that’s great see that’s how we look at it but only God looks at the heart this may surprise us sometimes we forget this but God can clean a heart long before we clean a life that’s an amazing thing and I’m glad he did that does that with us he goes on so God knows people’s hearts and he confirmed that he accepts Gentiles wait a minute these Jewish people they’re going he accepts the Gentiles but don’t they have to there’s got to be some rules here we had 613 how can we go from that they got to do some things here and we see a picture that Jesus with the woman that was caught in adultery they bring her to Jesus which I’m always questioning how did they catch her in the act of adultery those guys it’s that’s pretty bad leadership already they bring her Jesus and they throw her at his feet they say here’s what the law says she’s supposed to be stoned she’s supposed to be killed what do you say Jesus because he’s already talking about grace and truth and faith combined together what do you say Jesus you know what Jesus says to them he says whichever one of you you have no sin in your life you throw the stone first this incredible sound happens it says that they all begin by the oldest all the way down to the youngest begin dropping the stones and walked away Jesus looked at her and said where are your accusers nobody condemns you neither do i wow it’s incredible grace but wait a minute what if she goes and does it again Jesus I know that’s where we start doing the Battle of grace and truth and Jesus’s go and sin no more he lives us out this unity of grace and truth he accepts the Gentiles and he goes on and says by giving him the Holy Spirit just as did us he made no distinction between us and then for he cleanse their what hearts God knows the heart he cleansed their hearts through faith so they’re wrestling with this well how can that work don’t they have to follow some of the laws to follow Christ so we see the answer Peter now he’s won it gave the first message of the church and thousands of people came to Christ that first time acts 15 10 here’s what Peter stands up says he says why are you now challenging god you’re challenging God by what by burdening the Gentile believers with the yoke that neither we or our ancestors were able to bear in other words what why are you putting this on them guys none of you kept 613 laws and now you’re trying to put that on them we believe that we are saved the same way by the undeserved grace of Lord Jesus Christ say that with me we believe that we are saved the same way by the undeserved grace of the lord jesus christ aren’t you guys glad for his undeserved grace and yet they’re still at that point but what about the laws what about the rules there’s gotta be some and that’s what these early apostles who walk with Jesus are judging now here’s the real clincher James who’s the brother of christ is getting ready to give the answer to who can be a part of the church now I think he’s the clincher because i want to tell you james grew up with Jesus anybody who grows up with a brother and he’s still proclaiming the brother to be God you can’t fool a brother I I have a teenage daughter right now and her younger brother if you got her up here and said Christy tells us who your brother really is she’s not going to say he’s God and no amount of money in the world could convey sir that he’s God you know i mean really i look at this i’m gone surely somebody pulled James’s i’d say come on really James did he SAS his mom you know what was he good clean his room I mean what did he ever have a bad attitude surely he said a curse word or something you know they’re they’re testing it was it he’s God and James is the one who gets up and says here’s the decision for the church to move forward here’s what grace is all about X 15 19 20 he says so my judgment is that we should not make it difficult say that with me not one more time not for your friends your loved ones those who you think are the worst sinners in the world they don’t look like you think a Christian should look they don’t act like it their lifestyle doesn’t even measure up right now don’t make it difficult for the Gentiles who turning to God instead we should write and tell them now James says okay there’s a few things that they need to

do three things they should have stained from eating food offered to idols why is that so important well that was one of the big hang-ups with the Jewish people and he said don’t offend them by that is this is no big deal so just don’t do it don’t eat that food then he says tell them to abstain from sexual immorality well James can you give us give us a few rules is this sexually immoral is that know just what I’m telling you it’s just avoid it altogether and right away some of us are going yeah but I need to know as that is or that it you know what this is a relationship if you’re worried about it being sexually immoral err on the side of grace and say God I want to live as close as you as I can I’m not trying to get close to sin I’m not trying to push the line say I’m going to live as close to sin as I can and still living great no God I’m living under your grace and I’m gonna live as close to you as I can if I even think that’s a hint of sexual immorality I just don’t want to be a part of my life help me not to do that oh come on there’s got to be a rulebook James’s know that just listen to avoid sexual immorality and he goes on and avoid eating the meat of strangled animals and from consuming blood that’s it come on don’t we need a policy on how you can be a part of the church we we need we need some rules we need to know what people look like who go in at in church no this is it everything else you’re just making it hard and difficult and Jesus is about the unity of grace and truth really that’s it you see we would like policies and a policy says well we know that you’re a good Christian when you get to this standard you’re living this out and no for Jesus it was a conversation a conversation is messy it’s a relationship but that’s the way Jesus lived that’s how he loved yeah but can’t there be no the standard is grace and truth the unity of those two and in that there’s a lot of messy conversations there’s a lot of people on different steps in the journey that’s the picture grace and truth live like Jesus lived love like Jesus love do what Jesus did not grace and truth fighting one another but the unity of those two I asked you earlier and I’m about to wrap up here and i’ll give you this third thing here just a moment to wrap up but I asked you earlier your tuner our gear head I told you it’s a very inside question some of you have no idea what that is well the tuner if you’ve ever seen the movies fast and furious that’s kind of the new movement if it starts out in Fast and Furious where you got the muscle car racing against the the foreign car the foreign car there though that’s called the tuners and gear heads or the muscle cars and some of you like well why do you ask you an inside question I want you to get that that’s how the church tends to live the church tends to become very inside and we use all these words and we do all these things and we say all these things and people come in and they feel like I have no idea what you’re talking about tuner deer head I’m clueless and we make it so hard for them to be a part of the church so I asked you and those of you who knew somebody said gearhead my favorite show is Top Gear British version I don’t even know what that movie is you guys must’ve been a real hit gearhead mo mo part anyone and again there’s another insider language some of you say what’s mopar that we got to be careful as the church we’re not using inside language you know we use the language of the Bible we make sure that we are clear and explaining it and then standing it somebody else a gearhead I love this p they’re all gear heads I love turning wrenches on v8’s blown v8 power is king again there’s some inside language to go what’s up blown v8 and I’m sorry don’t have time a tuner for sure here we go somebody a Subaru love baby representing the chicks afore valued alive whew and I was trying to give you some props and there we go bose i love the bill but it takes a special ear to hear the engine to make adjustments Ford Ford Ford Ford Ford i say to you sin sin sin sin sin that’s terrible you know what I’m probably end up driving a for now guys going to give me a Ford and I’ll have to get him sell it or give it away gearhead even our virtual pastor question text number says forward Oh 30 to the text number is 302 it’s a Ford Boston and there’s a 302 and they said speed speed speed i love that for 351 cleveland it’s for sale i’m telling you this the only reason i was allowed to get it up here so forward man it’s terrible you guys come to the discover live and we’ll walk you through why you need to get set free from ford it’s good actually I my wife had needs a car and I’ve been looking at phors I’m so embarrassed by that that’s my confession so grace and truth now again those were some insider questions and insider comments and I did that on purpose I never usually do that we avoid that kind of stuff but I wanted to see as a church we need to always drift toward outsiders be careful some of you felt clueless that’s how your friends feel if we’re living this little bubble

if we’re not bringing them and helping him and associating with them and connecting we’ve got to always drift towards insiders always drift towards grace avoid drifting toward legalism will give you one more thing always drift toward advancing avoid drifting toward preservation you see it’s easy once things are kind of established for us as a church we have a building we have staff you have good services it’s easy to start saying you know what why do we push to go forward anymore we’re kind of comfortable that’s a dangerous place to be that leads to death the movement of the church would have never gotten out of those first century had the guys felt that way there are still people who are far from God and people who are not part of a church that need that in our lives this is not about us it’s a big deal it’s about the resurrection of Jesus Christ it requires that we’re bold and that we take risk now remember I want you to remember this teaching and I’m going to go back to this water illustration it’s not grace or truth it’s not hydrogen and oxygen and all of a sudden if those two are present we have water no it’s the unity of hydrogen and oxygen that makes water in our lives at followers of christ as the church it’s the unity of grace and truth that allows us to live like Jesus lived to love like Jesus loved and to do what Jesus did that’s how we do it and any time I find myself drifting toward one without the other I need to come back to god you gotta change my heart give me your heart the unity of grace and truth that’s how we make a difference of salt and light now if you would take out your next your connection cards with me you’ve already been asked to fill these out and our next steps on here is something I’m going to ask you if you’re a follower Christ you have to play along than this okay now if you’re not a follower crash and you’re just checking out this god thing or Church you can you know talk among yourselves for a minute i guess i don’t know but this is for you know if you’re a follower of christ you got to play because this is who were called to be would you read this with me the first next step one of them there is about joining life group we’re doing lifegroup some courage you get in life group right now but it says this let’s read it out loud i commit to being bold now you guys are afraid to make this commitment come on play along everybody I commit to being bold erring on the side of grace and remaining open hint one more time let’s read it together I commit to being bold erring on the side of grace and remaining open-handed father we are just going to close in prayer here and as we do we want to tell you that we want to make that commitment as we look at the struggle the early church had with this very thing that still today the church struggles with we are making commitment as your followers and as church that we are going to be bold in our witness about the resurrection of Jesus Christ we are going to always err on the side of grace we want the unity of grace and truth in her life but we know Lord that we tend to err on the side of truth in rules and regulations we are choosing and committing right now to err on the side of grace and we’re going to remain open handed we want to see this movement we want to see the truth of your resurrection the truth of your grace go through the next generation to our kids our grandkids we do not want to live in a society that knows nothing of your good news that’s on us so we tell you we’re committing to being bold erring on the side of grace and remaining open-handed with what we have and going forward as we’re praying would you just make that your prayer if you’re full of Christ make that commitment say lord help me do that I’m committing to do that use me that way help us as a church to do that and we give just a moment as we’re praying if you’re here and you’re listening to my voice you’re on church online or one of the other campuses you said Jeff I’m not a follower Christ this is good news for you and if you’re a Christian I want you to pray right now for those who have never made this decision the good news is that God’s grace is for you and some of your saying yeah but my life is such a mess if you knew how messed up it was hate the good news is that God will clean up heart long before a life is clean and he wants to do it right now for you just pray this prayer god i invite you to clean up the guilt and sin on my past fill me with your presence let me begin a relationship with you today i want to live the life you have for me the life that you died for on the cross for me to have now as you pray that prayer the Bible says that Jesus came to give you abundant life the enemy wants to kill steal and destroy you but Jesus came to give you life and that’s what you’re receiving it you begin a relationship with him God changed us as individuals in it as a

church as we go forward let us be salt and light we want to make a difference in Jesus name Amen god bless you guys on the turn the service over to campus pastors please drop those connection cards in the offering plates that go by in just a moment as well as the invest invite if you haven’t done that yet our leadership our elders our team we’re praying for those names individually and we’re going to all invite and invest invest and invite them in courageous we have a warrant for your arrest so where are you men of courage I believe every father should step up and answer the call good to say I

(upbeat music) (laughing) – How are you? – I am, nice boots – Thanks Okay, I, I love Lady Bird so much I’ve also been obsessed with Greta Gerwig for a very long time I was so excited to see this movie You are amazing in it Brilliant, I like was in love with you before, but I really, really, really love this movie And yeah, I would love to know how you got involved – That’s a great question – Thanks, I thought about it by myself – A few minutes ago? – Mhmm – Thank you, I’m glad you enjoyed it – I loved it – I got involved in Lady Bird about two years ago now So I signed onto it about a year before we actually shot it And I was the same, I was a huge fan of Greta Gerwig’s and the first time I had seen Francis Ha, I had just moved to London, was living on my own, had my best friend come over and we watched it together and I just completely fell in love with her And so when I got the script I was, even before I read it I knew it was something that I probably wanted to be involved in And I read it and then we Skyped and we had, we were just like, I don’t know You know when you meet those people, you just know you should definitely work with? – Yes, yes – And we were really sort of like giddy straight away and we were sort of like, I have so much that I wanna say to you, so much I wanna say to you And so it was this instant thing And then we met at Tiff a few months after that and we read through the whole script We spent like two and a half hours just reading through the whole script next to each other And she read all the other roles, and I read Lady Bird And it was one of those things, I don’t know if you have it, but when you’re essentially auditioning for something and you’re trying to read the other person’s face, I was sort of like, is she into it? Does she like it? I didn’t know, so I really didn’t know how it had all gone And then a few days later they got in touch and they said that they wanted me to do it – [Kristen] That’s so cool – So it was great because we had so much time to actually get to know each other at that stage – Which helps because sometimes when you’re reading it can be, like you said, you do feel like every word, it’s still sort of like an audition – Yeah and when it’s one scene as well, you’re sort of like well this is it It if I don’t get this right, I’ve screwed it all – You look amazing What the hell is in the duffle bag? – Don’t worry about it, geez – My grandmother will love that dress – Okay I’ve watched Downsizing, which I love Alexandra always comes up with these incredible ideas and stuff How did you get involved in that and how did you get involved in Mother! – I met with Alexander a long time ago Like I wanna say, a year plus before he even started shooting and I wasn’t even quite sure what the project was, but I was already like, yes I’ll do it I’m just such a huge fan I think he’s you know, one of the best film makers of our time and I love all of his films And that was the same sort of thing I met him and we had tea and then you leave and you’re like, why did I say that? You know, because I was kind of nervous to meet him and I wasn’t really sure what the project was and it felt just sort of like a general meeting And then I hadn’t heard anything for a long time and I guess a few months before we started shooting I met with him again and I– – And you knew what the project was at that stage? – Well I read the, yeah I read the script – Oh you still didn’t know? – No, no, no, no, I had read the script at that point and when I read it, I was like, I mean you know, it’s so rare to read something like that and seeing the movie, you can imagine the script And I was just like, I’ve never read anything like this in my life and how are they gonna do it and I knew Matt was doing it so I’d already pictured him And he’s so great and yeah I really didn’t have to like, I didn’t do a lot of thinking about if I was gonna do it or not – When he writes, because his worlds, like even with things like Sideways and things like that as well, they sort of feel separate almost Like this other thing It’s very real, but in other ways, I don’t know, it’s got like this unusual kind of quality to it Does it feel like that when he’s writing Is he really descriptive when he writes? – Yeah and there’s definitely a rhythm to his writing and it’s, you don’t mess with it You respect the commas and the periods, and the the’s and the and’s because you know that they’re there for a reason and it always feels better when you say it the way that he’s written it And this one’s so different from him because it’s sort of sci-fi future, not just a story about something that happens in a small town or something – You could also kind of see it happen Like when I was watching it I sort of thought, this could happen

I mean, it kind of makes sense for a certain amount of time – Yeah – Until it takes that turn And even like with her decision not to go, I think it’s really important that you’ve got that Oh wait, is that a spoiler? Maybe I don’t know, just her thought process I guess and the way she’s sort of reasoning with whether it’s the right thing to do – You kind of understand – Like you can totally understand how somebody would have that questioning – Yeah because when I read it I was like, she’s doing such a horrible thing and I knew the audience was gonna just hate my character and it was important to me to find some likability You wanted to know why Matt’s character was married to her and there had to be a sadness when it was over, but also you wanted him to move on and find something else So it was kind of tricky to, it was a little bit of a dance to try to portray that relationship – [Woman] You will undergo the permanent and irreversible medical procedure commonly known as downsizing And that following the procedure, your bodies will be approximately .0364% of their current mass and volume – Yup – Do you find that you’re drawn towards characters that are, say a little bit more unlikeable on the page or flawed or something like that because then it gives you a bit of work to do? – I definitely think flawed characters are more interesting to me and just how– – More real – Yeah and how I play them and how people play off you and just in any situation You just kind of know when you’re reading a script You just like, for me I know so soon Like page three, I’m like, I can kind of just tell I’m already into it – You can tell as well, I don’t know if you do this, but I start to actually say the lines out loud and I start to actually imagine that I’m that person like as soon as I’m reading it And I think because it is one of those things that you can over complicate it and you can say, well it’s good for my career or it’s good for this or that, but it is just sort of like this gut instinct that you have – You feel it, yeah – It’s a connection you have to something – Yeah and it goes the other way too There could be an amazing opportunity or something that everyone’s, you have to do this thing and you’re like, I don’t know, I’m not, I am not feeling it – I found that with Lady Bird, I knew I was connected to her, but I hadn’t figured her out yet So like, she– – It’s hard to figure out – She’s hard to figure out and actually through the whole shoot, I sort of spent a lot of my time going, who is this girl? From one scene to the next, she’s a showman and then she’s you know– – [Kristen] Like insecure – Riddled with like self-doubt and insecure and all that And then the next minute, she’s really confident and feels like she can do anything and go up to the guy in the supermarket that she likes and just go, hey I’m Lady Bird And I really admire her for that, but it was, because she’s so different from moment to moment, it was, you’re kind of like shifting your idea of who this person is And I realized afterwards, I just finished the job and I really wanted it to be great for Greta, just because she’s put so much of her heart and soul into it, like you can tell And I would say to my mama, like months and months afterwards, God you know, I don’t know if I did her justice and I don’t know if it was good enough And I hope I don’t ruin it because everything, it was like Alexander Paines’ script for you, I’m sure You read it and the pace of it was there and the story was strong and every character was so well rounded and I didn’t wanna let that down in any way And she said to me, you know, I think the fact that you you’ve got this uncertainty about it is probably the best thing when you’re playing a 17 year old girl who’s about to leave home for the first time And it’s funny how like, it can come from another place, your connection to it It’s not intellectual at all, you know It’s not like thought out or anything I wanna go where culture is like New York – How in the world did I raise such a snob? – Or at least Connecticut or New Hampshire where writers live in the woods – You couldn’t get into those schools anyway – How did you get involved in Mother! – Well it’s not exciting of a story I think they told me that he wanted me to do this part and I’m, Darren is just like, he’s such an amazing story teller, artist, visual genius That was another one when I read the script, I was like, what? It was so unlike anything I have ever read and I’m sure you know You get sent things and a lot of them can be very similar, especially female roles And you know, it was just this sort of quick part where I came in and out, but the script was so interesting I had always wanted to work with Darren Aronofsky and Jenn Lawrence and yeah it was just like, it was just kind of an amazing time I felt really lucky to be in it I wish you would’ve told me about this turn out

– Have you met my– – There she is The inspiration All right, I have to be honest, I was a little worried about him being holed up here with you I was nervous you’d never write again – [Man] Of course not – Have you found it tricky, I suppose or like it’s a bit of a – Yes, no – Yes – I didn’t know what you were going ask – No do you think it’s a bit of a hunt still to find just great roles in general I mean yes, obviously for women, but I think even just all around I think like, I know I went through a stage, well we still do, but when I was about 18, it was such a weird, it was like an in between age and I remember only being handed scripts that either had the coming of age girl or the older sister or the girlfriend or something like that And it really, when you find something great like those projects and like I did with Lady Bird, it’s sort of, it’s so precious to you But it does seem like it’s hard to come by – It is, especially with comedy Comedy scripts I find, especially for women, you know, and it’s funny too like when you do something and then you become known for one thing That’s all you just keep kind of getting And I’m like, but wait, I already did that Like I remember after I did Knocked Up which was one of the first things I had done, I kept getting these scripts to play these bitchy business women and I’m like, wait I wanna do something else I just did that in that movie – Do you write then? Do you think you’d like, is that something you, I mean obviously you write, but I mean, is that something that you thought more about like if the parts aren’t coming to me, I’m just gonna write my own? – I do feel like with comedy it’s very helpful to write in your own voice And also the parts I mean, female parts are, you know, they’re hard to come by and a lot of time in comedies you’re the wife that’s like, where are you going? Get back here and that’s not that funny – You’re late – Exactly So I do hope that changes now that they’re hopefully allowing more women to come into the fold as far as writers and things like that, but we still have a long ways to go – You know like, you have helped that so much Like I think over the last years you, Tina Fey, Amy Peohler, like I always say having grown up doing drama, it’s the women in comedy that I feel like have done such great work, especially like you, in the last few years And honestly I think that that’s sort of like, you know, crossed over into dramatic film And I think because you guys have done so well and like, Lena Dunham, people like that, you’re making your own stuff, you’ve got your own shows or movies and the success is down to you guys and I think that’s made people notice and it’s made people kind of go, okay maybe I can do that too and maybe we can do that in movie too because I’ve definitely seen since I started, that there’s been a shift in the type of roles that you get offered as a dramatic actor And I do think it’s because of women in comedy – Oh that’s in interesting point Thank you for saying that – 225,000 chance that the procedure could result in injury, permanent disability, or death – Yes – Yes – So Kristen – Yes (laughing) – Quick question for you I was just wondering, also I’m sure you know by now because anyone who knows both of us has probably told you, Bridesmaids is my favorite film in the whole wide world and I quote it daily Literally daily And I remember watching that and I had never seen anything like it and it’s still the film that I mean, it’s like one of the films I’ve actually bought on Itunes because I wanna watch it all time – Thank you, that means so much to me – But it’s the best And it’s the best because you’re also fuckin’ funny in it, but also it’s about friendship And Chris O’Dowd is lovely and charming in it, but it’s very much about you and your best mate and all these other girls and how, the dynamic of that and stuff And then to work with some of them again on Ghostbusters, how was that to work with so many chicks on the set? – It’s, I mean, you can’t beat it I mean, that’s why when Annie and I wrote the movie even from the conception of it, we were like, we know so many funny women and why can’t And it’s funny how like it was a little bit of a, we had sort of like to explain that having

a movie about female friendship is enough And I know guys have their friends and they mean a lot to them, but there’s something about female friendships and that family we create and those are the people we turn to and there’s just like, that’s your crew And things happen with different friendships And we grow because of them and we– – If you’re growing, you’re changing – Yeah, exactly And you know, we just learn about ourselves And we learn about boundaries and I just feel like my friends have taught me everything I think having a movie just about those dynamics is interesting to a lot of women – It’s interesting to watch It’s great to watch – And I’m not saying that our movie is interesting I wasn’t saying it like that – No, but it is But it’s that whole idea It was even great for us to get to do that in Lady Bird as well Like yes, there’s two lovely boys – Their friendship, oh my god – But the friendship is the thing and her relationship with her mother – I know, I loved watching you guys, yeah – And to see, Greta always says, Greta Gerwig always says that to see myself and Beans, Beanie Feldstein who plays Julie – [Kristen] She’s amazing – She’s amazing and she’s hilarious and we’re just in the back of the church eating wafers and we’re making each other laugh – I know, I mean I was in from the beginning Again, I just love the movie so much But when you guys have your feet up on the lockers and you guys are laughing, I was like, okay – They’re not consecrated – Oh my god, it’s so good Just to see that dynamic of two young girls just laughing and having a casual non-writteny conversation – Well that’s it as well And knowing that that can be entertaining, that is actually really interesting to watch – Yeah because we see guys do it all the time, yeah – Yeah and it’s also great to watch It’s just great to see two people get a kick out of each other I wish there was more of this, but parents and their children especially around that age and how complicated that whole dynamic can be – Your relationship with you mom– – [Saoirse] Laurie – She’s so amazing – Isn’t she amazing? – [Kristen] Yeah, she’s great – Laurie Metcalf, Laurie Metcalf for the record – I know that you started in this business at a very young age Have you, I mean obviously your perspective and your perception of what this business is has changed a lot How do you feel like you keep yourself sane in this crazy business? – What it boils down to is my mom is the best – Oh that’s really sweet – My mom’s the best and she’s always been with me up until I was 18 she came away with me and she was my chaperone And it’s funny going to all these parties now with the minute and the events and things like that It feels like it’s all sort of happening for the first time because I really wasn’t a part of all that when I was a kid I do think there’s also just more pressure put on kids now I don’t know if it’s just me, but I do think there’s more pressure put on kids who are actors or in the public eye to be on social media and promote themselves And none of that was around even when I was a kid But I think I was fiercely protected by my mom and my dad And I think it’s also helped not being in L.A I think you can come here if you know yourself, you’ve got your friends, you’ve got your group of people, but I think it’s very important for me to just personally just sort of physically have separation from this world So it means that when I’m not doing this, I’m very much somewhere else in every way And it just means that you grow up having the right sort of priorities like great friends, great female friendships Like my best friends and my mom and the people, and also the people that I work with That’s what’s important to me So I think it makes it easier then when you’re doing press and you’re doing weird stuff like this It kind of helps you to go, oh okay I know what the real world is because I’m a part of it And I think that, I don’t know if you’ve found that as well If it’s been important for you to like– – Very similar – Take time for yourself – And go away – Go away, yeah – And really truly unplug and take breaks I didn’t do that for such a long time Being on SNL for most of the year and then I would shoot in the summer and then on those few weeks off, then I would be doing press for the things that have come out I didn’t re– because that’s like when and where I started so I didn’t know that was not normal And I remember actually talking to Bean’s brother, to Jonah Hill, and I was saying that I was finally gonna take a break And he was like, oh how long are you?

And I was like yeah, I don’t think, like for two weeks I’m just like, I’m not doing anything – Such a long time – He’s like no, you have to take like two months off You have to like go away And I had not taken, I don’t think I had taken a week off in I mean, I wanna say like 10 years or something – What? – It was crazy – Because I was thinking about the SNL cast the other day and I was like, you’re writing during the week, you’re doing the sketches on Saturday Then you go back in on– – Monday – The Monday, right? I remember reading Amy’s book, Amy Poehler’s book about SLN and she’s like, people would just get us McDonald’s and we’d just like eat crap and keep writing and working till the early hours like that That must have been, it must, was it weird then when you finally stopped? I’m sure it must have been so sad But was it weird to kind of go like, oh this is the real world? – Yeah, it was like someone took an IV out of my arm and I was like, I just felt like I was breathing different air Because you’re just, you’re in this world and you’re with the same people and– – Right, you’re in your bubble – 30 Rock, you’re just like, you just live in the building And even on the weeks off, you’re still hanging out with each other in New York And then yeah, when it was over, I definitely went through a period where I was like, who am I? Lost in the streets with my bag – Do you think then, that’s actually made you more likely to take breaks because you know the effect it can have when you just keep going? – And also when you don’t re-fuel you end up doing things like this and then crying in the bathroom – Right – Do you know what I mean? – Who am I? – Who am I? – Who am I? – Exactly, yeah You have to and you’re not gonna do a good job and you’re not gonna feel centered – You can’t do your best work – You can’t So I did learn that lesson the hard way, but now I know how to take breaks – You know, it’s great to have this perspective on what we do in the industry and then real life and all that sort of stuff But even still, it’s unpredictable It messes with your head You don’t know how long you’re gonna be working for All that sort of, like it’s a very unstable sort of environment And when it’s good, it’s good, but have you found in the times when it’s not so good, how have you dealt with the disappointment, I suppose, and the unpredictability of the nature of this business? – I kind of like the unpredictability-ness of it Again, with SNL and was there for like seven years, I didn’t really worry about what I was gonna be doing because I had a job And afterwards I had a few things lined up and stuff I don’t know, I haven’t really worried about the next thing coming And that doesn’t come from like, oh I know something will I don’t know, I just have always had that outlook that like things will come Because all of the things that I feel like have been the best things in my life have come out of the blue so I kind of feel like why plan and expect things I know something will happen whether it’s a break or something fun – And it’s right for that time – Yeah And also I try not to be too involved with like internet, social media stuff I’m not on social media And even when films come out, I don’t read anything It’s just not, I don’t – You don’t need to, really – You don’t need to because I feel like the experience of the film is what you’re gonna remember anyway and if you go down that rabbit hole, you’ll look back on things you’ve done and you’ll remember the bad reviews You won’t even remember the three months of fun that you had shooting it – And it’s also, it becomes very superficial then Like whenever I work and I don’t look at the monitor I don’t look at a cot, I really don’t like looking at films that I’m in Lady Bird was the first time I actually was like, yeah it’s good I had to say it because it’s that great, but like, I’ve just found, and it’s funny because people can make you feel guilty about it as well for not wanting to enjoy watching yourself on a massive screen It’s like really, but that’s not normal And I just feel like if that’s a part of why you’re doing it, the image or the way it looks or even to be honest, how other people perceive or react to it, for me, I just think I’d be doing it for the wrong reasons – Yeah and you become so self aware I have said this before When I was on SNL, I never watched the show I never watched the show from the moment is started until the moment I stopped because I didn’t wanna be aware of what I look like And like if I looked in a mirror before I started talking to you, I would know what you were looking at and I think I would be more aware of what– – This is my face – Does that make sense?

You know what mean? And now I have no idea – no, no, no, absolutely – And I won’t watch this – You look great You look fantastic If that’s what you want me say – That is, thank you All right now we’re drinking– – I mean I don’t know what I look like right now, what do you think? – I don’t know I just can’t tell – How do you feel, how do you feel? But do you like me? – I want you to be the very best version of yourself that you can be – What if this is the best version? I truly loved you on SNL, obviously – [Kristen] Thank you – And there’s so many characters that are beloved by the nation But my question is, which one was your favorite to do on Saturday Night Live? – It’s so hard to pick because I mean, I have a special place in my heart for the Target lady simply because I did her at groundings before I got SNL and I did her in my audition and I remember being so nervous having the sketch at the table read and thinking to myself, if this doesn’t go well then how am I gonna do on the show because this is like what I did before So that one I think always, I will love her And I really like doing Sue, the surprise party lady because it was such a high energy character for me to play and I don’t normally do that kind of stuff – Jumping through walls – Exactly, so I just, I kind of liked, I kind of liked doing her – You’ve played so many different kinds of roles, they haven’t been, they’ve all been very diverse Do you have something that you wish, do you have a character in your mind that you kind of wanna play or do you have something coming up that you’re exciting about? – Good question I just played Mary Queen of Scots, which was amazing And it was one of those things where I took time off beforehand I knew this was the project I was gonna do next so I took like six months off – Oh my gosh, that’s amazing – I traveled, I went up to Scotland and did my research, started to horse ride, learned some French – [Kristen] Oh my god, that’s a dream – It was an absolute dream and so it meant that when I went into this environment and I was playing someone who was real, who was in power, there was such a sort of expectation There was such an expectation for her as a person when she became queen anyway, but it was something I had signed up to when I was 18 – Really? – I was on it for five years – Oh my gosh – And then it finally happened this year So it was a big one for me and I know now that I need to take the time off so that I can, when I go back to work, I can put all my energy into that one person because I’ve had time away from this, do you know what I mean? But I think one thing that I’ve always wanted to try, well there’s a few things actually, I’ve always really liked the idea of playing a man, of playing a boy or a man since I was a kid I think as well, I never really played girly roles when I was younger They were always quite tomboy-ish or very sort of intellectual and things like that And that’s something, just because of the physicality of a guy and their voice and how they hold themselves, things like that, I think it would be a really interesting thing to do And I’d also like to do a silent film where I just don’t talk because I just prefer to not talk in films I don’t love lines Some lines are fine, but I find, I don’t if it’s the same when do it, but do you just like cut, cut, cut all the time? – You mean like cut things out of the– – Like cut your lines or make them– – Like maybe I don’t have to say this – Yeah and like maybe I should just stand in the background Do you think, is that good for you? But yeah I’ve always found that I’ve been more drawn towards, I don’t know I guess like using my face

– So hello, everyone, and welcome I am not Julia Stasch, I’m really sorry She’s not able to make it tonight and she sends her regrets I am Jen Humke, I am a senior program officer in MacArthur’s journalism and media program And I have been the person who’s been leading and organizing this event, so that’s why I’m up here tonight But yeah, so thank you for being here and joining what promises to be a really compelling conversation about how the media and storytelling influenced the way that we think about citizenship and being an American Our two guest speakers, Rami Nashashibi of the Chicago-based Inner City Muslim Action Network, and Jose Antonio Vargas, who founded the national organization Define American, are two MacArthur grantees doing work to recast public norms and perceptions about citizenship and belonging to this great American experiment we are all part of So, I know Julia would want me to say a little bit about the journalism and media program, which is easy, because I am part of that program So MacArthur has invested in media for more than three decades The first grants were made in the 1980s, focused on supporting independent and diverse perspectives on broadcast television and documentary film, and this was done to ensure that there were a multiplicity of voices and viewpoints contributing to public debate and represented in the media And of course over the last 30 or 40 years, the media and the world has changed dramatically and evolved, introducing new opportunities, and at the same time, new challenges But you know, MacArthur, through our grant making, and as an institution, we continue to hold strong to the fundamental belief that a high-functioning democracy is dependent upon well-informed and engaged American public And today our journalism and media program makes grants totaling a little bit more than 25 million each year to support non-fiction storytelling, investigative and accountability reporting, and participatory citizen-made media And I use that, the term citizen, in the broadest sense of the word to include everybody who lives in the United States So in the cultural sense, not in the legal sense Investments are designed to strengthen our democracy by supporting just in inclusive narratives that inform, engage, and activate Americans to build a more equitable future And a priority in this grant making is to ensure that all Americans, especially those from historically marginalized groups, are able to have their voices heard and help us work towards a more inclusive and pluralistic American society So now I’m gonna really channel Julia, because I know she’s gonna wanna, she would want me to say a little bit about why we’re thrilled and we think that it’s really important to be having this conversation here in Chicago, and now in this moment, so Over the past 40 years, well, and I should say, so Chicago is of course our home town, and Chicago is also, it’s another grant making priority of the foundations And over the last 40 years, we’ve invested more than $1.3 billion in Chicago organizations and individuals to strengthen the city’s civic infrastructure and build more vital and healthy communities And we think that this conversation in the city right now is timely, relevant, and really not accidental Chicago residents have been at the center of a number of efforts, pushing for new norms and narratives around citizenship So Chicago is where the Dreamers Movement advocate for the rights for the rights of undocumented youth took root Chicago has been front and center in the national movement to change the narrative about gun violence in the unfair and often false media representations of the communities most effected by that violence And as a sanctuary city, Chicago is part of a national movement to recast the negative and inaccurate \narrative about undocumented Americans from one in which they are cast often as criminals to one that includes them as contributors to our communities and neighbors that we count on And this weekend, of course, and I know Jose is gonna talk about this a little bit, and you should have a flyer in your programs, but Chicago is hosting the Define American Film Festival And I’m sure they will get into that and talk a little bit about it But it is, I encourage all of you to go They are gonna be really digging deep into many of these issues over the weekend There’s no doubt that this work and these conversations are messy and often difficult, but as an institution, we truly believe that it’s an important part of living in a democratic society, especially one that is rapidly diversifying and always changing And I’d like to thank Jose and Rami for leading us in this very important discussion tonight And I’d also like to introduce our moderator for the evening, Melba Lara So you might recognize Melba as the host

of Chicago Public Radio’s All Things Considered, and the voice that moderated our recent gubernatorial primary debates And when she speaks, I know you’re gonna really recognize here. (laughs) So Melba has been a journalist for more than 20 years, spending most of her time at WBEZ, Chicago’s NPR affiliate, and other public radio stations across the Midwest She was born in the Dominican Republic and grew up in Chicago, so Melba has personal experience with tonight’s topic So I wanted to thank her for taking on the responsibility of guiding us through this important conversation And I wanna thank you again for being here tonight Thanks, so Melba, I’m gonna turn it over to you (audience applauding) – Thank you so much and thank you to Jen and the MacArthur journalism and media program for sponsoring this amazing conversation that we plan to have with you tonight And thank you for joining us on Facebook Live with the hashtag CivicMedia, and after the program, we’ll have a Q and A as well, so we’ll get to hear some of your questions for our guest tonight Before I introduce our, give you more details about our two amazing panelists, I just want to let you know what we plan to talk about, what we don’t plan to talk about tonight One of the things we cannot do tonight is talk about immigration reform We couldn’t dream to have enough time to actually fix all the problems in this country about immigration But what we do want to talk about, as Jen mentioned, is changing the narrative around immigration, giving people their own voice, how do they change the public discourse about immigration? What is an American, how do we define that? Who gets to define that? And what is the role of media and the public? So that’s the direction that we plan to go to tonight Before I tell you a little bit about myself, I did want to ask, is anyone here with a group that actually works with immigrants? So we have a few Is there anyone here who in their private practice or in their line of work works directly with immigrants? Excellent, do we have any people who volunteer to help immigrants or refugees? Excellent Do we have any students here from other countries? A few? Excellent, terrific, well welcome We’re really glad and we really are looking forward to you being an important part of this conversation So as Jen mentioned, my story is pretty common for immigrants in this country I was born in the Dominican Republic, and that’s that island that shares with Haiti, Hispaniola And my family came here when I was two years old My father and my mother were trying to escape a dictator who had been assassinated And in the chaos that followed in that country, the United States had to send troops to restore order and try to plant seeds of democracy The good news is, it eventually worked But it took a while And in that chaos, my parents dreamed of a safer, better life for their kids, so they came here My father came first, like many immigrant fathers, and we followed three months later My interest in journalism and immigration is very piqued because of my own experience with my own family and where we came from So let me tell you a little bit about these two great guys that are on the stage with us tonight First let’s start with Rami Nashashibi, who is founder and executive director of the Inner City Muslim Action Network, or IMAN For over 20 years, he’s led that nonprofit, working for social change on Chicago’s south side IMAN’s numerous programs include a community healthcare clinic, a training initiative that helps ex-prisoners get job skills, and IMAN also produces an arts and social justice festival called Taking it to the Streets, which draws thousands of people to Chicago’s Marquette Park And the organization has just expanded now into Atlanta Rami grew up the son of a Jordanian diplomat, and he has deep connections to Chicago, his mom was born here He first came to Chicago on a college scholarship and later got a PhD in sociology from the University of Chicago He’s been named one of the 500 most influential Muslims in the world, and was named one of the top 10 Chicago global visionaries He’s also the recipient of several prestigious awards, including a MacArthur Fellow So please welcome Rami Nashashibi (audience applauding) And next to him is Jose Vargas, a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist and Emmy-nominated filmmaker and founder and CEO of Define American, as Jen mentioned, that’s a nonprofit organization that fights anti-immigrant narratives through storytelling Some of you may know Jose’s story, he won a Pulitzer Prize while working at the Washington Post while covering the Virginia Tech shootings in 2007 He also did some reporting here in Chicago when he worked for the Washington Post He’s received numerous accolades and two honorary degrees for his work featuring undocumented narratives And one of the catalysts for his work began with a group

of dreamers here in Chicago, we hope to hear about that In 2011, while working as a journalist, Jose revealed in a groundbreaking piece for the New York Times that he was undocumented He was born in the Philippines and came to the United States when he was 12, and unknowing entered the country on false documents when he was sent to live with his grandparents So please welcome Jose Antonio Vargas (audience applauding) So Jose, for people who don’t know your story, here you are, a young man, looking to get– – No, I’m 37, not young (Melba laughing) – Here you were a young man, looking to get your driver’s license And what happened at the DMV? – Yeah, so I was listening to Boyz II Men and Alanis Morissette on my Walkman (audience laughing) And you know, I was 16 and my classmates were getting tired of driving me around So they said, hey, get a license, so I took the green card that my grandfather gave me and my Mountain View High School ID, and I went to the DMV And then when I went to the counter, the woman took my Mountain View High School ID and then my green card, she flipped it twice, and she lowered herself in the counter and like whispered to me, “This is fake,” right? The first thing I thought of was, oh, she thinks I’m Mexican – Which happens a lot to you – But, because I grew up in Mountain View in Silicon Valley, and whenever anybody said anything about fake papers, the newspaper, the radio, the television, all they said was, this was about Mexican people And I actually said to her, no, I’m Filipino, you know, we just have Spanish names, I’m not Mexican (audience laughing) And she looked at me, and like, “I don’t care, this is fake “Don’t come back here again.” And you know, without even realizing it, she was really the first part of like, you know, I’ve been calling it, and I say this with a lot of respect to African-American history, I was an African-American studies major in college You know, she was kind of the first member of this underground railroad, right, that, she could have reported me, she could have like totally called somebody And she said, “Don’t come back here again.” I thought she was lying, as I said And when I got back to my house, my grandfather was there ‘Cause he would work the night shift, so he was always around during the day And he confirmed that it was fake And then that’s how I found out that I was sent here illegally, that the guy who took me here who I thought was my uncle, but I’m Filipino, so everybody’s an uncle, like every single (audience laughing) So she was a coyote, and my grandfather spent $4,500 buying these fake papers Which is a lot of money for a guy who was making what, $7, $6 an hour as a security guard But his plan was, get me here, marry a woman, work under-the-table jobs, and poof, right? And so around that time, when he told me I was here without papers, I told him I’m gay. (laughs) (audience laughing) – You like an easy life – You know, my rationale was, wait a second, so I was brought here on a lie, and now you want me to lie some more And I just, you know, I will tell you, Ellen Degeneres played a big role in that, like I, meaning that was around the same time when Ellen was on the cover of Time Magazine, right? You remember that cover, she said, yep, I’m gay, I’m like, who is this woman, why is she smiling? Why is she so happy? (audience laughing) And why is she telling the world that she’s gay? So she, without probably even knowing it, liberated countless people So that gave me like, you know, the courage to tell my grandfather, the man who provided for me, look him in the eye, and I said, you know, (speaking in foreign language) I’m gay And of course that complicated – So it would And I want to jump a little bit ahead to when you were getting your job at the Washington Post And you had to have a Social Security card – Yeah, well you needed, what they needed more was a driver’s license – Driver’s license – And by the way, it was a job between the Chicago Tribune and the Washington Post I was thinking, I’ll go to the Washington Post for six months, then I’ll go to Chicago Tribune ‘Cause I was growing up and Chicago Tribune was like, remember My Best Friend’s Wedding? Like you know where there was that, there was that scene (audience laughing) I was like, Chicago Tribune, you know, there’s a lot of Filipinos here, why not? So the Washington Post said I need a driver’s license, and this was 2003 Thankfully at that time we had Google And I was Googling, I literally researched for seven hours at the library which states would get people like me licenses At the time it was Oregon and Tennessee

And through the help of other members of my underground railroad, I found somebody who lived in Portland, Oregon I had all of these people send me mail to that address in Portland, establish residency in Portland, and then got the license And that license was valid for eight years So without that license, I would not had a career in journalism That was literally my only, which is why I’m so glad that you mentioned immigration reform Nevermind that (audience laughing) – Solve it – If in this country right now, if what we did was to provide every undocumented American and resident a driver’s license, you know, only 12 states, including Illinois and D.C allow us to drive, right? Most states do not New York does not, Texas, 1.8 million undocumented people in the state of Texas, right, can you imagine how many people don’t even have that one piece of ID? So without that ID, I would not have had a career in the Washington Post And the ID expired literally on the day of my 30th birthday So I thought I had eight years to do everything I thought I needed to do to earn this American citizenship And if I did, then it would fix itself, but it did not So when I was about to turn 30, seven years ago, the question was, do I stay, what does staying mean? You know, I’m much more comfortable asking questions than answering them I was a journalist, right? Or, do I leave and self-deport, Mitt Romney-style, before he came up with that term? Clearly, I decided to stay And with staying, how do I use every skill I know, writing, making documentary films, to make sure that people understand that my story is just one of 11 million people? – I want to ask you about the YouTube video of Dreamers, there was a YouTube video of Dreamers here in Chicago that made an impact on you – Yeah, this was like, I was at the Washington Post at the time, I was a political reporter So just imagine, I was in the closet about being undocumented, driving around, following Sarah Palin, right? (audience laughing) At any point thinking they’re gonna find out that, you know, this dude who’s Asian who has a Latino name is not even supposed to be here I was paranoid And I was at my office in D.C., and I saw this YouTube video of these undocumented people in downtown Chicago saying that they were undocumented, unafraid, and unapologetic I was like, well, they have lawyers? That was my first question Second question was, what do you mean I’m afraid? You know, like I spent all of my teenage, all of my 20s being scared The last thing really got me was unapologetic I have been sorry all my life I’m sorry that my grandfather lied, I’m sorry that it cost $4,500 to make that lie a reality I’m sorry that I had to lie to every employer I ever had and to all my friends who were like, hey, I’m gonna get married in Mexico, Jose, in Mexico, you should come, and I’m like, eh, you know, I don’t want to go to Mexico, and you know, all these lies you have to tell, right? Like the lying and the culmination of all the lies you have to tell, just so you can exist I was sorry for all of it – It takes a toll Takes a toll – And so when they said unapologetic, I was like, what? So, that was, that happened here in Chicago And of course that’s part of the larger movement that’s now been known as the Dreamer Movement in this country Now, I was a dreamer before there was a Dream Act, so I’m like an older, we call ourselves elder dreamers (audience laughing) So I’m in the elder dreamer party – You’re actually on the cutoff point for DACA, aren’t you? – I missed DACA by three months, yeah So I do not qualify for DACA – Well I want to bring Rami in here Because we wanna hear your story too You actually were pretty areligious when you got to Depaul here in Chicago, you were studying here But then things changed when you had conversations with people that were here – Yeah, I mean, so for me, my story in Chicago is always a complicated one, I mean, you know, I think a lot of us can, you know, relate to the question, where are you from? ‘Cause my mother in fact wasn’t born here, she was born in May of 1948 outside a dirt road near Bethlehem, as her mother was fleeing I always joked that my mom had the very typical Biblical birth (audience laughing) And literally, they were packing up, they were fleeing, as many of you know, the history of that region, that was an extraordinarily tumultuous moment It was the birth of the state of Israel, and it was also the creation of over 700,000 Palestinian refugees, of which my mother’s family was one of them They interestingly became one of the first group of Arab American, Palestinian Americans, to settle on the south side of Chicago My grandfather, who was only educated

up to seven, like sixth grade, learned how to tinker with airplanes at the, while he was just a person, you know, young man on the flight field of the Royal Air Force by the British, who were, during the mandate period of the Palestinian, imperial mandate, if you will And so he landed, he was able to land a job with an airline at the time called Ozark, some of you may remember them, like they were in the Midway area And my grandfather’s first house was like at 67th and Stony, 1952 And then, they had this interesting history with Chicago, which has always kind of historically kept me connected to that history, ’cause they, like a lot of, at that time, Stony, that part of the southeast side of Chicago was predominantly, and ironically, kind of for me, I always think about the quote of King about us bounded, you know, to this mutual web, – Yeah – That the families, my grandfather, was living with were predominantly Jewish Americans at the time And the kind of, that White flight moment on the south side of Chicago, as White ethnics were fleeing kind of west, my family was in that, the second house was there in Englewood, and then they eventually ended up in Margate Park My story was my mom met my father, who was a grad student, that they moved overseas, and I was born in Jordan, and moved around, and I was, they had a messy divorce, but so I moved, I was like in 10 different schools, maybe seven different countries, 11 different cities, by the time I was 18 And the last country I was in was in Italy, and I wasn’t sure what I was going to do with myself, I just graduated from high school and have no real ambition for real college, but everyone around me was going to college, and some friends told me, you should really go do something with your life, and there was a last college fair, and these guys came and they had a brochure of Chicago, and they, you know, it was a city by the lake with a bunch of beautiful buildings on the cover, and I said, you know, I think I know that city, my mom grew up in that city So I applied, and it was a college like on 103rd and Pulaski, no lake, no buildings And I ended up there And then I moved, and I said, I’ve gotta get over here, it was the first year, it was like around the Gulf War time, and already I was encountering issues around race that although my mom and I had an American point of reference, I had never really encountered ’cause I never really lived in the United States as a young adult And I had some ugly encounters that made me say, I gotta get the hell out of here, and went to the first school I could get to, and that was Depaul And at the time, yes, I was very areligious, if you will, I wasn’t brought up in a religious setting, but I think three things eventually really drove me to eventually get back and involved in the type of work I was doing And one of them was, you know, although I was brought up very disconnected from any religious identity, I was always aware, and you cannot but be aware kind of a political identity as a child of refugees and Palestinian family And so I was very attuned to very political social justice issues and became very involved with organizing with Black and Latino students and forming alliances and coalitions and dealing with everything from racism on campus to gentrification and displacement in and around Lincoln Park at the time, much as you remember, even at that time there was a larger Latino community there And then the second thing I always, you know, at some point, as a kid I get infected with the hip hop bug, and my first point of reference with a lot of American culture was intensely, you know, as a young teenager through hip hop, through groups like Public Enemy And so this sensibility of popular culture, the sensibility of social justice, and eventually, faith and spiritual identity, as it really manifested here, was something that began to intrigue me, and I was being confronted with Something I don’t think I would’ve ever had any interest in outside the United States But it’s when I found the way in which Muslim identity, particularly in the Black experience, had expressed itself both in social activism and in hip hop culture, was something that eventually kind of, you know, informed how I thought about myself and informed my activism eventually as well – And we can’t really talk about immigration without talking about the water we’re swimming in We have the Trump administration, who’s been taking a very hard line against immigrants with the DACA, the dreamers, also banning people from coming here from Muslim countries

Do you think we focus too much on Trump? And how would you say it’s affecting your communities? I mean you’ve talked to Paul Ryan His parents are immigrants, his grandparents, from Ireland You know, are we focusing on the wrong person? I think it’s been fascinating in the past, what, more than a year now, from progressives in particular, who are like, we have an immigration crisis in this country And the only question I can ask is, where have you been, yo? (audience laughing) Like, right? I mean if it wasn’t for President Clinton, right, so I’ve been in this country since I was 12, so 25 years If I leave, I would face a 10 year bar, right, before I can even try to come back So that is because of what President Clinton signed into law in 1996 President Bush, after 9/11, when Muslims and illegals became like the other in America, shut down INS and it became the Department of Homeland Security We have a rogue ICE system in this country that every day in this country, 34,000 people must be in detention, and a bed quota Did you guys know about that? Your tax dollars, by the way, pay for that, right? I can’t not be in Chicago and not talk about President Obama, right? That has deported three million people, throughout, not me I don’t know why I have not gotten deported You know, I covered President Obama, you know, when I was a political reporter, it’s not like he doesn’t know that I’m here (audience laughing) – Jose, isn’t there a warrant for your arrest? – Well, I got arrested in Texas three years ago They issued me this notice to appear But I think it’s really important that we connect the dots, that this has been an absolute bipartisan mess that has cost us billions and billions of dollars because we are unwilling to face truth and we are unwilling to ask harder questions of ourselves, right? Even the reality that we don’t discuss the root causes of migration, right? And what we as a country have done, foreign policy, economic policy, the drug war, NAFTA, right? I’m Filipino, again, there’s a big Filipino population here, like the reality is Filipinos are in this country because the United States was in our country at the turn of the 20th century during the Spanish-American War So this is a hard conversation, and yet, you have for the most part a media ecosystem that sees this issue as illegal, legal, Republican, Democrat, comprehensive immigration reform – And I want to talk about the media, because they’re certainly worth examining a lot closer – Absolutely – But I wanted to ask you, Rami, what has been the effect in the communities that you’re serving as they see this atmosphere that’s coming out of Washington? – Yeah, well so, and I want to maybe answer that, but I also, the previous question, I think, you know, just to continue off that line of analysis, ’cause I do think, we don’t want to underestimate the extraordinary impact that this discourse is having today In Kansas, three men were tried and convicted for plotting to blow up a residential housing center of Somali refugees in Kansas, in Wichita, that was a group of around 300 families You read their transcripts in court, they’re deploying language that is almost verbatim coming out of the discourse that’s coming from the highest officers of the land now So I don’t think we should underestimate how extraordinarily impactful this is having, this is, you know, this is causing for the communities in terms of just pain and terror But, to Jose’s point, you know, my brothers and sisters out of first nation communities often begin gatherings by reminding us what land we’re on And I think it’s, you know, apropos for a conversation like this To remind us, we’re sitting right now on stolen Potawatomi land And I think that’s not, that’s not just making a politically, you know, conscious point for the sake of making it, I think that is an important part of this larger conversation You know, who’s here, who’s fled, right? Whose land is this? Whose discourse, who was an immigrant, who was White? Who, you know all of this language We were talking earlier in the green room about how I think the danger of focusing exclusively on the Trump area, if you can go back to Bush or Clinton or Obama But we have to go back, as you did, to, you know, moments like the Spanish-American War, moments early in the 20th century when, you know, things like the Immigration Act were being passed into law in great part by the hysteria that was being caused across the country around questions of race, and questions of purifying the American gene pool

I mean this was language that was not only bipartisan, it was being articulated by some of the most well-respected philanthropists of the land I mean from Carnegie to Rockefeller, you could go to major institutions and find he conversation happening, and it informed not only conversations about race that led to, you know, in this particular case, in this, a lot of this data we were referencing in a book that came out last year called Imbeciles talks about how, Adam Cohen, a journalist, talks about how this led to the forced sterilization of over 70,000 women in the United States of America, Black, Brown, and poor White, many of whom were probably the grandmothers and aunties of the tiki torchers, you know – (laughs) Yes – When you think about– – Charlottesville – And like, you know, who, when we forget this history, we begin to not realize who has been traumatized, who’s been really terrorized by these narratives around immigration, around race, I think we then have a very myopic conversation, and I think the danger of talking exclusively about Trump is that we don’t connect those dots And we need to connect that, we need to recover this history We need to recover notions of intersectionality, it’s not just a sexy buzzword for the current moment, it’s a real part of our history And we need to think about how conversations about racial identity, immigration laws, have really been entangled with one another And in order to get out of the mess we are in, we’re going to have to do a little bit of that disentangling – Well when we feel the historical weight of how we got here, how do we actually bring in the voices of immigrants? How do we get their stories heard? – I mean for us, you know, and this is why we’re grateful to the MacArthur Foundation for seeing this, ’cause so much of the conversation on immigration has focused on the policy and the politics of it, without understanding how stories play a central role in really liberating not only the political kind of mess that we’re in, but validating people’s experiences and existence, right? So for example, when you go to our website, which I know that you will, ’cause you’re gonna find out about the Film Festival, we actually host one of the largest collection of stories of undocumented people online, right? But it’s not enough to collect the stories and tell the stories, how do you operationalize the stories? Meaning, so once we collect it, how does it help a journalistúin Kansas City? How does it help the writers from Grey’s Anatomy, right? Last week, I don’t know if you saw Grey’s Anatomy last week, they did an entire episode on an undocumented medical student, right? That was because Shonda Rimes reached out to us at Define American and we sent undocumented people in the writer’s room My colleagues, Elizabeth Voorhees and Kristen Marston here, who actually lead our entertainment division, facilitated this entire thing that went on for four, five months, just so Grey’s Anatomy can get that story right So stories for us not only liberates people from the political mess of this, but, you know, you can’t really argue with a story, right? It’s hard to litigate a story It’s someone’s experience So for us, it has to be a strategy that is comprehensive in the way we think of where people are Now mind you, I can spend every day, I mean if it was up to like CNN or MSNBC or Fox News, I’d be on TV every day But do you really need to see me on television for 30 seconds talking to you about why I disagree with Republicans? I would rather figure out, how do we tell that, you know, how do we share stories of teachers in Alabama who happen to be Republican and who are at home wondering, how do they protect the undocumented mothers of the students because the students are not coming to school because the parents don’t want to have to send the kids to school because they’re afraid ICE might show up, right? That’s the role for us of storytelling – I had a mentor who teaches an after school program in Chicago say that all the undocumented kids in that program have dropped out And it was their one path to help get into college – 180,000 undocumented people in the area of Chicago – Yeah, devastating, and Rami, I wanted to ask you, you’ve talked about kind of these messy intersections, and about the stories that immigrants tell about themselves and about others, where you have African Americans in communities where Muslim Americans own grocery stores, and you’re trying to facilitate conversations between immigrants and people who are already here in the United States and how we have to be willing to have those tough conversations – Yeah And to that point, and again picking up on this idea of stories, I mean, I think what gives me the most hope, and I think what would occupy more of our attention when we’re thinking about these challenges is looking to where our pathways that have demonstrated moments of success And you’re talking about the national narrative, but I think we shouldn’t always, we should never lose sight of the power of local community organizing and statewide community organizing in a city like Chicago, state of Illinois I mean even the driver’s license victory in Illinois

was a direct result of extraordinary multiracial community organizing that did the type of things that for instance we’re doing on the south side, which is, you know, deploying the language of organizing, which is, listen, we have a common self interest We are all, again, you know, that needs to go beyond just an intellectual proposition and a very lived understanding that you are directly and intricately connected to the life of that undocumented family on that block Because when their father or mother is rounded up, the quality of your life is in fact directly affected Because their children now growing up on that block have to subsist off the underground economy and your quality of life is degraded, because the probability of violence just increases, you know, exponentially For instance, you know, we’ve done that with the corner stores, where, you know, it’s not uncommon to find communities of color who have been pitted against one another, you know And part of this language of the immigrant community, immigration as being a issue that is exclusive to, you know, I love your story about folks with Mexico I mean, I remember during the Sensenbrenner marches here, in 2006, we came out with a pretty multiracial group of folks, and a lot of them were Muslim, and you know, there was one point in the march that it came time for our five daily prayers and we stopped on the side and we prayed And when we were done praying, an entire crowd had emerged around us and they were applauding us And it was a beautiful moment And it was mostly Mexicans, but also, but I think part of it was that the Latino community wasn’t expecting as many like Black and Muslim folks to be in what was looking like an almost exclusively Latino march, right? And I think we’ve internalized that criminal justice is a Black issue, immigration is a Mexican issue And what’s powerful on the ground when you have moments of these, what I call these messy intersections, like a place like the modern inner city corner store provides, where you have predominantly low-income immigrants from Middle Eastern backgrounds working in low-income Black communities, and where those tensions sometimes are fraught with a whole bunch of problems, we’ve also just kind of run to the mess, and how do we challenge that mess? How do we challenge that store owner to think about their business practices and how directly connected are you in fact to the community that you are now subsisting off? And then we challenge the folks in the community and we’re doing this in kind of whether we’re using, you know, a lot of the local hip hop artists or our activists, our organizers, our church clubs, neighborhood block clubs But to make the neighbors realize, yeah, listen, you also are in fact very connected to the life story of this person that is in your community seven days a week, and how do we find real moments that build genuine connection? And part of that is really getting people to sit together and tell stories What drove you here? What drove Black families to migrate– – To migrate from the South, yes – From here or the South? What drove immigrants to migrate to cities like Chicago from the terror of political unrest wherever they were coming from? And I think when you do that, again, you’re able to create not only this very important human connection, it’s no longer just an abstract headline You know, now it’s, you know, Mahmoud at the store, that’s his story, you know, that’s, you know, Jose’s story But you also begin to challenge us to get out of these very enclave silos notions of what is our self interest – [Melba] Right – And begin to understand that we have a broader collective self-interest that will mobilize Black churches to go down to Springfield and argue on behalf of undocumented communities for drivers’ licenses, which is what happened there – And how do we do that, Rami? We can get very comfortable in our silos And sometimes it feels like we’re preaching to the choir So how do we break out of some of those silos? – Well, you know, I’ve been very privileged to be mentored by some extraordinary organizers in the city, and one of the lessons that I learned early on is that, you know, part of it is that you have to have what Brian Stevenson talks about, proximity to the pain And that’s not hard now for a lot of our communities I think ti was, it was an unspoken rule for a lot of immigrant communities, especially coming post-1965 to America, who were trying their very best to quickly get on the upward trajectory of success in America And an unspoken rule, right, that a lot of immigrant communities understood was proximity to whiteness was success And wherever you can find it, go there And that meant in many ways abandoning

the ability to make direct connections with communities that were suffering the most in ways that were very familiar to those immigrant communities where they left And downplaying that I’ll never forget a footage, for instance, of my grandfather, when I was going through some of his old footage, you know, growing up on the south side of Chicago, he had some of that old eight-millimeter or whatever it was, film, and he had a moment with his family, he had in fact built a plane, he built a Cessna plane and flew in this plane, I definitely didn’t get those genes from him, I wouldn’t trust the bike that I drove I always tell my grandfather, like he’s 92 now and still an activist, that you know, you really actually flew in a plane that you built? He said, yeah, and he had this footage and he was showing it to me, and he was very happy about it, and it had my mother and their five siblings And he had a Black friend who was, they were trading off On the camera And there was a moment when he was showing me that that everyone’s smiling and laughing and then a helicopter lands And a big old White man comes out of the helicopter who kind of makes a beeline right towards the camera, and at that point, my grandfather’s African-American friend was filming, and you could see the camera just go black And I asked my grandfather, I said, what happened? And he said, no no no, nevermind, he really wanted to change subjects, he didn’t even want to show me that And I said, no no, see, I said, so what happened in that moment? And he said, no no no, I don’t really want to talk about it And that was like 40 years ago or 50 years ago And what it turned out was he came to him and said, listen, you camel jockey, if you bring this in to our airfield one more time, I will burn down your plane and your house And that type of terror that immigrants started feeling just about proximity to having a Black friend on the places like a very racialized segregated southwest side of Chicago, we didn’t want to talk about that And so, what I think our immigrant communities are understanding now, so for a long time, it wasn’t, the immigrant communities really didn’t feel like it was in their self-interest to form these alliances And now, post-9/11 for the American Muslim community was a wake up moment You’re not as proximate as you thought you were, right? You know, you’re not, you thought you were a card-carrying member And your membership has been revoked and put into question And so all of a sudden, Black-Brown alliances start looking more not simply as a luxury, but as a necessity, not only for your survival, but the survival of your grandchildren and your kids and your future generations, and I think that urgency, the fierce urgency, is what drives good organizing, it’s what drives good alliances And unless you see it in, unless you’ve been awoken to that reality that it is in fact in your self-interest, I think the type of work that you’re going to do is always going to be at a distance – And I just want to circle back, Jose, to something that you said earlier about the Charlottesville rally How do you feel about the fact that now the anti-immigrant groups have the tools to get their message out? You know, their fears of law and order and scarcity in this country and their ability to get that message out very effectively? – I’m so glad you asked that question, actually earlier today at Define American, our executive director, Ryan Eller, led this really fascinating presentation at the MacArthur Foundation talking about how not only organized but how incredibly well-funded the anti-immigrant machine is, right? So, whenever you read an article in the New York Times or the Washington Post or the Chicago Tribune, or listen even to NPR, you know, journalists wanting to seek balance, you’re gonna find the Center for Immigration Studies, Fair, and Numbers USA quoted, right? These are hate groups, labeled hate group by Southern Poverty Law Center, that are incredibly, incredibly well-funded and incredibly well-organized, to get their message out And guess what, we live in a country where immigration policy is being run Breitbart Immigration policy is being directed by people who used to work in these organizations that are now at the White House and are now running ICE and DHS So, dismantling that, deconstructing that, understanding what that is, is incredibly, incredibly important And working with news organizations So when things like chain migration comes up, right, we can actually, at Define American, our job that week, right, was to talk to every journalist that we can to say, can you please at the very least put quotation marks behind chain migration? – And why is that important, Jose, why shouldn’t we use chain migration?

– Well because this, that’s a very loaded, it’s kind of like calling someone like me an illegal alien, right? Like this has been the language that the anti-immigrant right has been so good at cementing in people’s, you know, mindset And language here, you know, I’m from a, I’m from the Maya, I’m from the Dr. Maya Angelou like school of like words I firmly believe that words are things You know, like they’re in the air and then it gets to your hair, in through your shirt, and before you know it, it’s inside of you And before you know it, it determines how you act Before you know it it determines how you decide things, right? In this country, and I’m saying this as a gay man, I’m proud to live in a country where to be anti-gay, for the most part, right, I mean there’s still, we have some problems, to be anti-gay is culturally unacceptable Alec Baldwin says something homophobic, he has to apologize, he has to give millions of dollars to a gay organization, right? (audience laughing) In this country, to be anti-immigrant, you get elected to the White House That is a cultural shift, right? John Lewis, the great John Lewis, so I got arrested in Texas, as I said, three years ago And afterwards, you know, John Lewis was amazing, invited me to like have a meeting And he said, looks like you got yourself in some good necessary trouble I’m like, yes sir (audience laughing) And frankly, I didn’t think that John Lewis would know what I’m doing or whatever But he did, and I was really humbled by that But he said, there was a time, Jose, in this country, where you write an essay for the New York Times, you get on the cover of Time Magazine, you do a documentary that airs on prime time TV, you’ve punctured culture, you’ve done your job You’ve done all those three things at Define American, and this was like 2014, and you’re not even close Why? Because back in the day when Bloody Sunday happened, he said, there were three television stations, everybody listened to the radio and read the newspaper So whatever we were going through as a country, we had a collective shared narrative Now, every morning, watch Fox and Friends A little bit, just a little bit, try it, just a little bit And then go onto Today Show, go on CNN, and you see precisely what we’re talking about This is why we have to be very strategic in the way we do this And I have to say, I have to say this, as someone who’s not Mexican but always gets mistaken for Mexican I think we owe the Mexican people of this country a tremendous apology There are 33 million Mexican Americans in this country I can’t tell you in all of our travels at Define American, Alabama, Wisconsin, Arkansas, how many people use the term Mexican and illegal interchangeably, right? I actually think as an Asian person, given that the fastest-growing undocumented population are Asian, one out of seven Koreans is undocumented, given it in this country, 74%, I’m a journalist, I like numbers, 74% of all Asian adults in America are immigrants Asian people are more immigrant than Latinos are immigrants And yet when this issue comes up, where are we? And why don’t we ever talk about Black immigrants? Why are we not talking about the fact that, you know, Haitians are gonna lose their status like next year? 50,000 people – 2019 – Yeah – So it’s important for us, you know, I have a friend who’s in town for a film festival, Jonathan Jayes-Green He runs an organization called the UndocuBlack Network, please check it out And we have been very, is he here? Hey, Jonathan, what’s up? (audience applauding) He’s over there (audience laughing) The thing that I am most proud about our work at Define American, if you go to our website, you know, we don’t do anything as much as possible that doesn’t include undocumented Black and undocumented Asian people It is imperative that when we present these narratives, we complicate it as much as possible And I gotta tell you, if I were just to count all the White undocumented people that I have met at Starbucks, just at Starbucks, (audience laughing) I know, we’re supposed to be boycotting Starbucks, but you know If I just counted them, there’s way more than 11 million undocumented people in this country, right? Because they pass Right, they pass And this is where identity and race and the notion of citizenship, right, is incredibly important to like unpack Well, we have a few minutes left, and I like would be remiss if we didn’t actually talk about the role of the media, obviously It’s pretty easy to talk about what they’re doing wrong And you know, we welcome that How can we influence the media for change? – I have a lot to say on this, you go first (audience laughing) – Well you talked about language – Yeah And I think both of us are specific about language, even things when, you know, and I referred to some of the organizing work that’s being done, I mean there’s an alliance that we’re part of called the United Congress of Community and Religious Organizations that has been very Yukro, shout-out to Yukro, you were shouting out some– – Yes, yeah I was – That was very intentional about where organizing

and leveraging public narrative that was coming out of media institutions to make sure that even terms like, when you’re talking about sensitivities about, you know, undocumented communities, sometimes we often fall into talking about ex-cons, or you know, the terminology there is very important as well I mean, we’re talking about an entire subset, around 18,000 people coming home every year in the state of Illinois from these prisons who are also being deprived a lot of their basic rights as citizens And so using terms like returning citizens, we’ve found language is really critical I think there have been extraordinary efforts by journalists who have gone out on a limb Just recently there was an NPR series by Leila Fadel, who did a phenomenal job, I think, probably one of the most, (audience applauding) some of you have heard her work, yeah In conjunction with National Geographic, which, you know, I want to applaud, because think about the conversation National Geographic’s been having for the last year about interrogating its own history around race and language I think when journalists themselves can invite others and activists and organizers into the room to say, yeah, we have been stumbling on these issues And then even immigrant communities that have been very strong on supporting undocumented sometimes have bought into some of the more insidious racist narratives affecting Black folks in the United States And that’s just part of the complexity of race, identity, and citizenship, and when we can have the types of reports that came out, like nationally recently by National Geographic and NPR that actually celebrate a little bit of that complexity, try their best still in meaningful soundbites to deconstruct And I think it’s our, I think it’s up to us on the ground to find real powerful ways to translate that narrative into ways that can support, you know, through popular culture and organizing campaigns, you know, a little more on direct sustainability and effect on the ground I’ve found that that actually can translate into not only narrative change, but also policy change, which is, you know, long lasting and can be really critical, even if it’s at a municipal level, a state level, or, you know, at a county level And I think that is, you know, the type of power we have when folks in the media and organizers and advocates come together and challenge one another a little bit on the utility of each other’s practices – So for us, a lot of it is absolutely not only on the national strategy, but the local strategy Like local television news is still a tremendous source of news for people, right? Like I’ve been watching television since I’m in a hotel room, just watching kind of how they talk about issues, but so for us, our job, and hopefully we get more resources for this, is how do we really help journalists who want to do this well, right? Again, in this country right now there are 43 million immigrants, I don’t know if you know that, 43 million immigrants, 11 million of whom are here undocumented, excluding the undocumented White people that we haven’t counted (audience laughing) 43 million According to the Pew Research Center, this country in the next 50 years, 88% of the total U.S population growth is gonna come from those 43 million immigrants We can’t even talk about Black people without having a panic attack, right? Absolutely, by the way, I completely agree with you, I think unpacking the anti-Blackness that has in many ways become so inherent in our communities is absolutely essential So our job is then how do we tell the stories of this new America, right, because 43 million people that are now a part of this emerging America, how do we make sure that our newsrooms are equipped to do that? And I think we have to separate, though, journalism, from the news media, from the media We have a president that is a media creation, who is on the payroll of NBC, who sat at, I mean, I remember after he announced he was running for president and started talking about Mexicans, what happened after? He hosted Saturday Night Live Right? Like, we have a media-created president And he has an ecosystem that allows him to do that, so we have to be able to push back on what that is I would love, you know, this is why we have our film festival here, we would love to figure out after we leave, ’cause we were doing it Friday to Sunday, how do we help local Chicago journalists do a better job connecting these dots and talking about race, immigration, and citizenship all together? If we accomplish that, then we have done our job – I like that you brought up popular culture, ’cause you’ve talked about the movie Black Panther – Oh, yeah – And the effect it has – It was really incredible, like a few months ago, at Define American, we got an email from this actor who’s gonna be here tomorrow night actually for our film festival, Bambadjan Bamba, who was born in the Ivory Coast, and has been here, got here when he was like 10 or 12,

and he emailed us, emailed me and said, hey, I’m ready to come out as undocumented I have DACA, and I’m in the movie Black Panther I was like, oh (audience laughing) I think I forwarded it to Ryan Eller, our executive director, and then I’m like, oh my God, how do we, Noelle, our communications manager, my first thing is that you have a lawyer (laughs) Right, that was the first thing The second thing, oh, you’re ready to come out, okay, so how do we choreograph this, right? So how do we get you in the Los Angeles Times, how do we get Entertainment Weekly to talk about it, how do we make sure every Black blog, Essence Mag, all of, you know, the Black news ecosystem, right, and I was just, I have to tell you, I was so thrilled that out of all the groups he picked us So and then we ended up actually, because, you know, we love Black Panther, if you have not seen it, you have to go see it, we actually even created kind of a study, like a guide for how to watch Black Panther, right, and connect it to issues of race and immigration So we were really, really thrilled about that And Bambadjan, tomorrow night actually, the first thing we do, Melissa Harris Perry, the great Melissa Harris Perry, is gonna be here, and she’s leading an entire conversation about, how are immigrants portrayed in television, in movies, in popular culture? So that’s the first conversation we’re having tomorrow night – Excellent And we have a few minutes left, just a few minutes, and I wanted to ask you if you could give us any hope (audience laughing) – So I think I, you know, I’ve said this about the moment that we’re in, I think we’re in a calling out moment And I think that’s a powerful and that’s a painful process, and sometimes extraordinarily uncomfortable But I think there’s also a spiritual side of our rootedness in who we are as a people that certainly I celebrate, and I’ve come to see in a much more broad sense part of our larger ecosystem, when you’re talking about, again First Nation spirituality, and you’re talking about traditions that are deeply rooted here about also calling up And I think the calling up is also something about what we need to reclaim about the hope of America in ways that are not Pollyannish I think, you know, I was in D.C. not long ago, and I was at one of these buffets in the morning, and when I checked in, these groups of three White women, I think they’re, you know, now you go to D.C. a lot, with these conferences you see the make America great hats again, and they were all looking at me, and I saw them again the next morning and we happened to be in the buffet line together And they were looking at me again, and I said, do you mind if I ask you a question? And she looked at me, she said, I said, it’s about the hat She said, okay I said, when and where? She said what, what do you mean? I said like no, just honestly, this is not an insult I just, I want to know, in your story, your personal story, when and where do you think about what date and what location do you think, what is evoked when you think about make America great again? And she said, she looked at me and she wasn’t expecting that question, and she, you know, she said that’s an interesting question And she said, you know, for me, she told me about a little town outside of Sacramento as a young girl growing up on a block in like the early ’50s And there was nothing wrong, I said, you know, I could appreciate that I said, had you ever thought that at that very same moment, life was hell for an entire group of people, groups of people, in order for you to be able to experience that? And she said, you know, she said, well maybe I’d be more comfortable with, when she said make America great again, it was, if America could be great again, right? And I thought, well I said, if you had that title, I said, that’s something I could align with ‘Cause that’s the Langston Hughes vision, I think, of that America – The aspirational America – The aspirational America About letting America be America that it has yet to become And for me, I think the hope that I get, honestly, and I think going back to the media stories that we need to begin to celebrate goes back to the local, I’m a very hyperlocal person, stories that we see everyday in our communities, where Black, Brown, and even White kind of folks from all backgrounds are challenging one another to make their neighborhoods, their communities around issues, whether it’s policing or about schooling, a better America And I think that’s happening everyday, and those are extraordinary inspirational stories

that are not about downplaying the trauma of the moment, but they also remind us that average citizens, average people here across all backgrounds, are doing extraordinary things And many of us who are working in the community are privileged to see that everyday I know that’s what gives me a lot of hope – And that is actually going to be the place where we pause for a moment, and we’re going to ask our audience if they’ve got questions If you do, please go to one of the microphones on either side When you do go to the microphone, if you do not want to be filmed, this part will not be included Just raise your hand when you get to the microphone, and we’ll edit you out later This part is not gonna go over Facebook Live So if you guys would do that, and while we have folks heading to the microphones that we’ll have here, Jose, I wanted to ask you if you would please for a moment tell us about the film festival – Oh yes And you will go, you have to check it out It’s the Define American Film Festival Go to DefineAmerican.com We start tomorrow night, and we go all through Sunday So we had this conversation about popular culture, we’re showing a film on Syrian refugees, which is even more relevant now We’re showing a film called Bisbee ’17 actually about this really tragic part of history, about, like a deprecation that happened in the state of Arizona Paula Mendoza, who’s our district director of the Women’s March, is leading a conversation here with A. Sean Pue, for example, all about like the women’s march and this Me Too era, like what does that look like? So this is us putting intersectionality at work We actually have a secret screening that we can’t announce because the film is premiering at our film festival from the very people who created the 13th, the documentary that Aca DuVernay made, all about, you know, Black Lives Matter and kind of, you know, mass incarceration, that’s happening on Saturday So if you go to the website, it has all the information, and if you want, if you have a friend, a coworker, or a faculty member who wants someone like me deported or detained, bring them I want to meet them We have other undocumented people on our staff, and actually gonna come, Jose Marias, who’s our artist in residence, is gonna be there, you can ask all the questions you want to ask about immigration, so we’ll be there – Alright, thank you very much to Jose Vargas and to Rami (audience applauding) Looks like we have our first questioner Just let us know if it’s for Jose or Rami or both – For both So my question, and you sort of started answering this, but why identify as an American today? I mean, is it for the purpose of being able to organize and have a shared story? But why not double down on being an outsider? Or a messy intersection person, or? – So the question is why be an American today? – Well why identify? – Why identify as an American today? – You want to go first? – Well, I think it’s about reclamation, you know? And I think it’s about, I think on some level it’s about, you know, an attempt to radically reappropriate and redefine what that means, because part of this narrative, I mean whether it’s Howard Zinn’s People History of the United States, whether it’s, there is a robust, dynamic, vibrant history of people contesting, challenging, reshaping, recasting what it means to be American And why advocate that history, why advocate that legacy? We have as much right to it as any other community And in fact in many cases, a lot of us are more deeply rooted than those who are trying to claim it for themselves And because that is the narrative of the moment, and because, you know, listen, those of us, and I’m sure we’ve traveled, you know, I’m sure you’re a well-traveled person, when you, you know, I still think it’s the best possible option a lot of not so good options across the globe when it comes to our collective identity I mean in Europe, the nation state identity is much more of a problematic one to try to wrestle with Because its history is even more bounded by a ratified sense of one religious and ethnic primary identification In other parts of non-Western European worlds we got, we’re in really messy territories there, and I think what has been part of the dynamic constitution of American identity here has been that legacy, has been that struggle, that in fact people have bled and died for And I think it’s a matter of reclaiming it When I saw in that moment of the, I think it was like the Eighth Cavalry, when they were bound before the Lakota elder, not far from the Dakota pipeline

I think that’s a powerful moment of reconciliation That was a powerful moment of recognition I think what we need to do in America is more of that public moments of, you know, of acknowledging our pain, acknowledging and then publicly issuing apologies And I think, you know, there are things we can draw on from our history that celebrate that, and I think it’s in our collective interest to do so – I would argue that it’s not, you know, in the beginning when we started Define American, did you know how the left likes seeding the left, it’s like a thing, right? We got criticized by a lot of immigrant rights groups, but we were saying, why American? Why so patriotic? Well, my America is like James Baldwin’s America My America is like Carlos Belloso’s America My America are the people who have to fight to be considered American I think of the moment right now and the moment we’re at as an absolute celebration of resilience, right? I mean we’re happy to be in Chicago, I’m happy to have grown up in California, but when you go to a place like North Carolina or Georgia and Arkansas, and the fact that people get up every day in this climate, right, Yosimar started the campaign for Define American called Undocu Joy, which is all about the fact that we celebrate, that we get out of the house and that we walk the dog and that we send the kids to school and that we provide for our families Like that is deeply American to me But more than that, and I’m glad you asked this question, there are 244 million migrants in this world This is a global issue, right? Without even us helping anybody, like there’s a teacher in Bulgaria who started a Define Bulgarian campaign Just watching what we’re doing So for me it’s about, again, this notion of who gets to be a citizen, right? And what global citizenship means – Excellent And we have a question over here Hi, so my name’s Michelle Mindelheim, I work at the Bryant Park Neighborhood Console on Chicago’s southwest side We work with a lot of youth that are undocumented, and they’re more than ready to come out and share their stories with the press But as a PR professional and as a daughter of immigrant parents, every time I hear their stories, I know how heartbreaking it is and how powerful it is, but I worry about the vulnerability of like having journalists either tainted or like not pay attention to it, so what’s the best thing I can do as a PR person to help them share their stories with journalists? – Noelle, or Christina, can you raise your hand over there? So can you talk to Noelle and Christina? We would love to help you do that, like this is precisely, you know, for us, how do you collect and tell these stories without having people feel like they’re being exploited? – Yes, exactly – That’s a big one, right? I feel like all we do is like perform You know, like I’ve gotten to this thing now where I don’t talk about my mom anymore, right? I haven’t seen her for 25 years, that’s all I’m gonna say ‘Cause I don’t want to have to like relive to you what that means, right? So but that’s the kind of training and the kind of help that we would love to provide local groups – Thank you – And a question over here – Sure, thank you, oh, can you hear me? Thanks for your time, both of you Since we’re talking about narrative, I think there’s such power in words, and especially after what happened with Starbucks, I found the remarks from the CEO very interesting And I loved how you just talked about changing the narrative and the dialog from people who were incarcerated, calling them, you know, same thing, I stopped using the word underserved and now I used under-resourced How do you feel about this new word that’s being coined instead of racist, unconscious bias, I’m seeing a lot of now? Thoughts? (audience laughing) – Is that part of the Starbucks, did you just come from the Starbucks racial sensitivity training? A lot of unconscious biases today Yeah, you know, again, yeah, I’m very biased I’m not, I’m very consciously biased with that, in the sense that I think organizing sensibilities is, nah, let’s just get into the real kind of, let’s just, let’s be real about it for a second And I think sometimes again language can insulate us from really getting to what is really animating and driving the pain I also though, think, again, the spiritual side of me is also, in that process, we shouldn’t become completely and permanently desensitized to how people from different backgrounds really feel that pain and how they’re affected by some of the same type of issues You know, one quick anecdote, when we were doing the MLK memorial on the southwest side of Marquette Park, and you know, it’s this, built it, it’s really a people’s

memorial and we were doing this march and we were getting a, recreating the march of the Chicago Freedom Marchers into Marquette Park in August 2016, commemorating 50 years of that march I was getting a permit, and we would have this back and forth, a challenging back and forth with the police presence of eight district, but at one moment, there was a woman, not a cop, just kind of a woman who was a desk clerk at the eight district, White, probably in her, you know, early 60s, that said, Rami, what’s that march commemorating? And I said, you know, Susan, it’s the 50th anniversary of when King was in this neighborhood with this She said, that was 50 years ago I said, yeah, and I asked her, I said, where were you, Susan? She said, she says, I was like a five-year-old girl living on 64th and Troy That means you were living at the literally start point of the march And she said, I had two older brothers Now I turned, ’cause someone grabbed my attention, I turned back and this woman was in utter tears And I could tell, and maybe that was the first time she was processing the pain and terror of a young White girl living on the southwest side of Chicago encountering that And my point of raising that as anecdote to answer your question is, I think sometimes we try to insulate people from dealing with that reality for fear of really offending folks But I think everyone needs to have these raw conversations about how we’ve all been affected by race and White supremacy and the notion of those And so, you know, some term may have some utility, someone can make an argument for that But I will always be an advocate for, let us just get into the thick of it, and let’s be honest about, this is gonna hurt And but let’s also be human about lifting each other up at those moments, because this does totally cross religious ethnic racial barriers It is about what it means to reconstitute the human family And as a person that draws from spiritual traditions to think about that, I think about that as a spiritual conviction, you know – Thank you We have time for one last question, over here – This is actually related to the answer you just gave, but I think one of you had mentioned earlier about preaching to the choir And my question is, how do we avoid speaking into an echo chamber, especially in a society where we have algorithms that tell us what we should be looking at? – So, I’m saying this as an undocumented gay Asian-looking with a Latino name, (audience laughing) who majored in African-American studies who made a film called White People So this is where this is coming from, right? I’ve been uncomfortable since I found out that I was this illegal in people’s minds As far as I’m concerned, all I’m doing is sharing the uncomfortability I would argue, especially because people still use the term resistance, that you’re not actually resisting if you’re not uncomfortable If you’re not risking something Like what are you risking? Now we all have privileges, whatever that may be, right? And some people have more than others I would argue that living at a time that we’re living right now, which is incredibly historic, this question of, what are you willing to risk, right, and where does safety fit, right? I’m reminded, and again, I’m writing this freaking book, I was just telling Rami about it, I don’t want to talk about it yet – No, when is it coming out? – It’s coming out in September You can look it up – Random House? – No, HarperCollins – Dear America? – It’s called Dear America, are you my agent? It’s called Dear America But you know, when I get stuck, when I get stuck, and writing is the most difficult thing I do When I get stuck, I see Notes of a Native Son, I put it up, and I was stuck the other day when I was stuck in this paragraph that was taking forever to write And I was rewriting this Baldwin quote about, you know, everything now we must assume is in our hands We don’t have any reason to assume otherwise, right, now if we, the relatively conscious Whites and Blacks and Latinos, Asians, if all of us, if we do not falter in our duty now, we may be able, handful that we are, to end the racial nightmare and change the history of this world If we do not dare anything, the fulfillment of that prophecy recreated by songs in the Bible by former slaves are upon us God gave Noah the rainbow sign, no more water, the fire next time I would argue that we are living in the fire this time And if you are not uncomfortable, if you are not risking something, if you’re not talking to somebody, because I don’t know, it might be too messy,

you are not living and you are not being an American So please, just, you know, a little uncomfortability – Thank you, thank you so much to both of you (audience applauding)

I love ready jigs Caprice on your holy crap I messed up my intro anyways welcome back to more pokemon firered and in the last episode we caught us in relax I got the H M for fly and I lost every time we got our final team number which was a jinx that I load up to level 35 I believe yes I did and the it’s really easy to level up so I’m going to be using it for a little bit until I get it up to level 38 I guess um and once it gets up to level 38 I will I guess switch out to a lower level pokemon on our team because I need to do that um anyways I was just about to say what we did last episode I already did that so it’s not a big deal I did go through the game center and basically rack up a whole ton of coins and got stuff I got a ton of teams I had to get 25,000 for every TM I wanted and then a crepinette man I use Shadow Ball um well one more Shadow Ball should kill it really how that actually hurt um anyways zoom adds that’s an easy thing to kill yeah it took 25,000 points to get every TM I needed a would have been 21,000 if I taught um our credit hang it if I taught on our flame wolf flamethrower before I evolve him but I didn’t do that even though I think I was like one level off so it’s like oh how many ways not a big deal I guess ah good thing we’re paralyzed I shoot I hate this crap I knew that was going to happen well I have a ton of revives I got so much money off screen like I’m not kidding it so I just bought a ton of stuff so I’m gonna actually I guess revive them you can what’s it called hell what’s it called I’m now revived jinx real quick once I find the revives I have a match revive I don’t want to use that yet because I have 99 normal revives and I also I believe have like 99 super potions what the heck is this right okay I still don’t know what this is all yeah I also got a ton of hyper potions as I said I got so much money off screen like I know how I got so much from but oh well not a big deal anyways um if can’t tell this place has a ton of teleporters in it which I don’t really like um like oh I this guy is a rocket brother um I guess I can battle him so yeah see I wonder what the whole point of a rocket brother is I think it’s just somethin that the guy says because I think if he actually was like a rocket brother and have something important that he would be a big thing of freaking team rocket and I don’t think he is if he’s just standing out here losing this on ten-year-old kid with the jinx of course the jinx low is a higher level than most of his Pokemon and that guy thing battles wait does he or does he talk about oh yeah he talks about how cruel um Team Rocket’s bosses which we already met his heart his yeah we already met Team Rocket’s boss so we already know he’s a cruel man crap I did not need to go here um at least not yet so I needed to go somewhere else and sorry if you can hear my computer I don’t think you can yet but you should be able to in a minute not a minute but probably actually a minute anyways um also you might be able to hear my fan it’s really hot I room cuz my dad never turn on the a/c today which normally we do and if we did turn on the a/c crap really and then I would have obviously freaking recorded on my a/c but at one it work oh yeah so custom smoke balls because they were cheap I don’t really know what they do um see I need to switch out my Pokemon so I’m gonna go ahead and switch it to monk I guess and uh go head in I didn’t mean to speed but oh well I guess I did I think there’s a big guy down here well there is this guy you can battle him I really don’t want to actually you know what I will because I want to if no I just said I don’t want to anyways I think we’ll also be dang it I think we’ll also be taking on the next

Jim in this episode which will be nice on because then I’ll be our sixth to em I believe and then in the next episode hopefully wait Altec dick does anything yeah I knew it the Thunderbolt might do something that’s it like nothing although I think it will do more than rock blast if Rock laughs we’ll hit it I don’t really know actually why what do you have oh alright I think Rock blasts little to nothing I don’t think strength will either I don’t think big affects it Thunderbolt won’t do anything see if I get a critical hit I can kill it now of course not but well I still got it there is a place to heal in here um I’m not too positive with where it is I mean I think I know a nice woman I could avoid him um if you can tell the whole gimmick of this place is on freakin um really that sucks I really need to heal him um the whole point of this place is on teleporting which isn’t a huge deal and we got the car key which is what we needed and once we get back here we can just go ahead and open up these I really need to heal up my Pokemon but as I said there’s a place to heal which is right here also instead of wasting a potion you can go right there and where do I need to go either need to go upstairs or I don’t fully remember but I know this will take me to the same place um so I can go ahead and battle this guy he is a drowsy actually I caught a few drowsies – I’m never going to use them I just needed them because um I needed to collect like 30 Pokemon to get the item check and then I need to collect 40 to get the amulet coin which oh man that was not fun in that foresight might ruin us later and at least we didn’t not get to use revenge and now we have a lovely a monk horn drill Oh God yet oh god what am i God get rid of this cheese you know what it’s only got 30 percent accuracy uh I can’t have something that only has 30 percent accuracy I’ll miss 70 percent of the time uh just for the heck of a I’m actually going to go ahead and heal up um lunk again that will only take a minute as you saw I’m also speeding also hey we were back I don’t know I was trying to be funny there but it didn’t work I think that guy’s you can battle but I don’t know there’s a hyper potion right there see okay so go down here I believe that yeah there’s Gary right here actually his name isn’t Gary it’s blue but I named him Gary because yeah um I don’t know why they named the guy so basic like red and blue likely dad we’re playing as is technically named red and the guy our rival is named blue but I chose another name and I really can’t battle him with ax and yeah I can’t paddle him with him um I talked flame will um flamethrower which is nice because flamethrower is nice really Gyarados let’s see monk if you doesn’t have a new water type moves you should be good because the Thunderbolt should hopefully crap that might kill it yeah great a master I’ll use a mass-market uh I taught in a shadow ball if you can tell and I also have an ice beam in that’s try ice beam cuz shot a ball done too much ah I guess Gyarados is a strong Pokemon let’s see one T trading off to execute should be fine with them him ice beam might not kill it oh it did although we did get a critical hit so I’m not positive I didn’t see what he got there I’m just gonna switch to a team to cookie I’ll exam he might be fine crap hopefully yeah I knew it and sorry if you hear my fan I should probably turn it down but really stupid Gary um hey master come yet smoke screen but how do you use all that Future Sight finally took effect although surf should kill

this thang rap I’m going to go ahead and use a where are they I’ll go ahead and use super potion a tear that did not do as much as I would have liked well one more surf will kill this thing crap we might die 3/8 P left oh geez that was lucky crap I should switch there I’m going to of C I’ll go to jinx I guess and I hope go ahead and ice punch there we go and while you guys read this I’m going to go ahead and turn my fan down a notch well I guess that didn’t take as long as I would have thought I just must speed this guy up I think he’s actually already on his way to the leap forward – kinda sucks for us but oh well this guy right here gives you a Lapras um so we get a Lapras but I don’t really care so I don’t really have a nickname I want to name it I’m actually I just thought of one of course but oh well I’ll go down here alright great crap um anyways we are almost at the place we need to be I shouldn’t I need to heal my Pokemon dang it I’m going to go ahead and I think it Giga Drain to kill this thing yes it will great and I think am Arawak oh no a drowsy I’ll go ahead and switch to jinx and ice punch it I guess and hopefully this kills it and of course not but luckily psychic doesn’t do much to us and that should level jinx up I knew it ah wait a marijuana thing right yeah I think I wanted to switch I guess I was fine so real quickly I’m going to go ahead and heal up my Pokemon I’m going to use a hyper potion on a master and that should hopefully he’ll not suite and I’m going to use a super potion on monk I’m going to use another super potion on monk all right and go ahead and go into this place and we get to battle Giovani for the second time and go ahead and space this up I really shouldn’t probably be speeding this up but I kind of need to because I’m at 12 minutes and I would love to get the next Jim done in this episode I’m crap course that won’t kill it I shouldn’t be digging good oh well this will kill this for sure and what’s he switching to NATO queen you know stay with a monk and keep using dig and that took more damage than I would have the light like a lot hopefully that kill of course I’ll use dig one more time and hopefully that kills it I know it’s going to use one move right now oh great Thunderbolts hopefully that will out speed we use of course why do I never think about something toward crap I’m doing horrible today I’m just going to say that and go ahead and use TMC cooking level I’m up soon now Razor Leaf this and he’s switching to I believe a Rhyhorn Oh King s can I guess I was wrong alone although he does still have a Rhyhorn I believe you know what I’m gonna see if I can poison this and I can this will help out a lot go ahead and Giga Drain and dang it I was hoping that poison would kill it but no oh well handle let’s see now his his yeah now his is right horn anyways we defeated that with ease and we defeated Giovanni and yes I don’t know what that was supposed to be but now all of the Team Rocket guys are out of this town and if you talk to the president which you need to do by the month well you don’t need to but I highly recommend because he gives you a master ball and the master ball will help you out a son because you can’t buy

it and it’s a great pokeball like more than grades it’s the best and I’m going to go ahead and of course monk is dead just going to use him a finder of five IPS and use it unmarked and see ghost monk and dig I want to show you this because you can actually dig to get out of a town si don’t need an escape group as long as you have a Pokemon that knows dig and I have five minutes and I said that really weird is like mom ah dang in why I can have this be a little bit longer of an episode can i I think I can I’ve had two shorter episodes unless I can get this done relatively soon out and now I’ll talk to that guy later going here a Team Rocket used to be guarding this place um but they aren’t anymore and honestly I really don’t know where the heck I’m supposed to go here I know I’m supposed to go into like one corner but a top left I believe oh I’m trying to avoid these trainers to save some time I really should be battling them okay so I’m here and uh I don’t think I actually had to battle every trainer which is sad but oh well um I really need to heal up my Pokemon – oh well um and we saw you guys enjoyed music I really don’t know what music I used uh hopefully something good and I have to use flame off on this actually no I really don’t but I’m going to use flamethrower and kill it hopefully of course not oh well this will spare you you know I’ll use flint or again that probably oh it did kill I’m actually surprised I’m gonna switch to a master I guess I really need to revive a monk so I really need to level them up if I can get them confused you know what I’m going to go ahead and provide a month now oh where are my revives here they are there we go and I’m going to I should take it out now and if this sucks that’s not going to kill it Wow talk about a waste us one serf will take care of it oh crap what the heck I thought I had this in the bag I guess not mister mine I’ll just ice being that I should kill it of course not how I feel so angry now I really feel angry um all right that kills at least into that Alakazam let’s see this is gonna be bad I have 69 health this is bad I should

have used Shadow Ball ding it see hopefully he’s fine use a Giga Drain on this guy holy crap that did a lot of damage flame wolf I got lucky there I think I did it I really need to revive some people here body survive shoot oh crap I am going to go ahead and use hey propulsion I’m so scared like I don’t think you guys realize how scared I am that I I can ice punch I might have this oh thank you jinx I love you holy crap oh dang this was that was so scary I’m not gonna lie and we got the TMO four witches of the tm4 I think calm mind and I really need to get out of here dang it I’ll just off-screen getting out of here I guess and I’ll go to the Pokemon off-screen to a so thank you guys for watching and I will see you guys next time where we will be on our way to the next gym in town and stuff so thank you guys for watching and you see my mouse might always do that dang it bye

et donc salut tout le monde ces géniaux et on se retrouve pour l’épisode 4 de mon aventure sur pokémon version zafira et donc à l’épisode 3 ans s’était laissé sur une malheureusement une défaite contre roxane mais en même temps les pokémon n’était pas entraîné je les avais enfin j’ai plus fait ça pour le fun je me doutais bien que je n’avais pas gagné surtout que si ce n’est pas du tout efficace entre les types roche et donc je vous avais dit que j’allais entraîner mes papiers veulent donc je les fais oups voilà je les fais est donc le tarse allait monter niveau 19 non c’est pas tes l’époque bon ben voilà t il pas alors téléport ces deux belles attaques tard ça l’a appris et lorsque vous venez de le voir on peut se téléporter un centre pokémon je crois que ces derniers qu on a utilisé du coup c’est ce que je voulais vous montrer pour le tard salle c’est qu’il avait appris de l attaque mais qui n’est pas utile en combat mais ça permet au début le jeu de revenir facilement à 100 enfin un centre pokémon assez facilement donc après je vais falloir aussi rio du pokédex parce que j’ai rencontré quelques nouveaux pokémon donc tout cela s’est fait par celle avec deux je les ai déjà rentré à l’heure ni galles je crois qu’on avait déjà vu donc il ya chicherit ans que j’ai rencontrés dans les airs de l’entraînement et après ce sont les pokémon des dresseurs qui avait donc il y avait un baril car henin c’est celui de la championne y avait un ski tissa c’était nous les hautes herbes et et et y avait un match choc c’était un dresseur km nature exacte et les pokémon que j’ai rencontré et donc je vous avais dit à l’épisode 3 que je réservé une petite surprise à propos de pussy feu à cet épisode et bien on va y aller directement mais pas la reine juste avant je vais vous montrer une petite chose alors hop on va se faire un cours ado boys les dresseurs que j’affrontais c’est ceci est absolument pas d’ailleurs j’ai parmi ces objets pourra passer pour le ramasser avec vous chez airbus que c’est partout j’ai été bête parce que j’ai c’est le terreau seul en premier en dessous des taux qui évolueront vertus et l’éclat tard salle c’est pas très grave vous voyez que j’ai quand même pas mal thomas lé du combat tu sais pas ce que ça rapporte pas énormément les pokémon donc le heureusement ceux des dresseurs ça rapporte un peu plus voila voila tout en premier alors j’aime c’est ça voilà et donc je disais les dresseurs que j’affrontais ce sont les deux là cette fille-là et le montagnard qui est juste au bout ok nancy nous attend hop donc là c’est juste histoire de le tuer et de passer un niveau et donc petite reprise tous les deux sur 7 6 ans 68 en plus grand hop voilà donc un deuxième pokémon est donc là ça devrait le faire envoyer un juge mur j’en parlais tout à l’heure apt flat rech voilà au moins qu’attendu du one shot et donc je m’en tenir aux 16es attention surprise donc déjà je tente d’apprendre qu’ils piquent ça je vais la prendre donc j’en ai vu des deux puissances 9 j’ai appris pipi ces attaques de type vol ces faibles et surtout c’est ça voilà poussif eux qui évoluent donc vous bien sûr au niveau 16 comme quasiment la majorité des starters et donc c’est là que ça va devenir intéressant parce qu’il va évoluer en kelly feu voilà et donc à partir de ce stade il va gagner le double type combat et voilà est donc la première attaque combat qui la prends c’est en forme de galet feu donc oui bien sûr hop et donc ce qui va nous aider pour la red c’est que le type qu’on va et bah on va on va sans aider pour battre les pokémon de roxane voilà donc on va je joue refait revoir voilà donc il ya bien le type feu qu’on va et donc la table double pied qui est vraiment assez efficace on va voir ça contre roxane allez c’est parti voici rendre du régime a ajouté fernand concours il ya beaucoup plus de chance

alors lui apple convaincre 60 serait plate perte de temps et qui avait le don de xp qui donne et vous voyez déjà le guilly fut beaucoup plus la classe même de 2 que le poussif hop voilà allez donc je regarde juste au niveau du pokémon que trois pv on va pas non plus retourné peuvent à au centre priol pour sa part que juste mettre le tard salon premier hop voilà les allez allez allez roxane salut je suis roxane champions de hand voilà ce succès on avait déjà eu à 10h a déjà eu à chaque fois elle dit le même texte ok alors là ça va chauffer la scruter pokémon je vais d’en faire qu’une bouchée bas voilà calque on retrouve encore la capacité deux heures salle donc normalement leur à cailloux souvent je me tue à deux fois sa superficie est ce pas trop en vigueur hop choc mental donc normalement et devraient être morts voilà en plus un coup critique c’est super 258 par lux b ça c’est tout voyez progrès quand même beaucoup plus d’xp sur les pokémon de dresseurs et surtout sur ceux des champions up alors choc mental alors lui voilà il ya un truc qui est assez bien avec lui enfin combat tout simplement parce que lui fait armées en cellule au moment de sa défense sauf que choc mental c’est une attaque ces attaques ma physique special one et donc du coup bas sans armure ne sert à rien à part voilà donc normalement ouais voilà la maturation je pensais qu’ils les bateliers parce que normalement elle a une troisième attaque devrait veut tuer le tard salle et ses produits à bas voilà ça nous aide et confus c’est court si vous vous blessez ne se sont encore mieux si vous tuez moi voilà et donc c’est là que va intervenir le poussif flamand où kate tension hop alors qu’on va utiliser double pied qu’on vient de gagner et aurillac là c’est super efficace et donc tiner ne va faire qu’une bouchée on va en faire qu’une bouchée par l’a6 je crois qu’il y avoir de confusion à dans le top 10 hop le voilà deuxième position hop et du coup ils nous avaient pas encore touché lui peut-être là ah il encore confus je crois bon ben voilà il est mort il est mort il est mort donc voilà tout simplement si au dernier épisode j’avais voulu vraiment battre roque savait donc pas y aller pour le fun j’aurais tout simplement de monter d’un niveau le poussif eux et c’était du gâteau voir hop donc l avion texte parce que c’est le premier bad organisé explique en eau voilà donc je reçois le badge rush de la part de roxane je veux faire voir juste après ok seulement de la puissance devise attaque et ça me permet d’utiliser coupe et elle me donne le ct c’est tout vu rouge de chance ouais tombeur donc la chute de pierres infligée inflige des dégâts et vitesse d’une justice s’était attaquée et deux filles ah ça c’est le système de santé scs voilà juste je le dis que j’allais vous montrer le badge voilà vous le voyez il est à la casse du verrou une donc pas de jeu pas trop de formes spéciales ça fait deux triangles un peu opposés ou des flèches comme vous voulez hop voilà alors à sortir de la red si je me rappelle bien la voilà on se fait voilà donc on a vu un speed team aqua temps je t’en prie ne prends pas mon pack ok j’ai juste aller seul mais pokemon l’on va aller voir ce qui se passe là haut parce que parce que la team aqua faut s’en méfier quand même voilà selon moi surtout leuthard salle voilà ok ott 2-2 et oeuvre ah c’est toi tu es super dresseur qui m’a aidé au bois clementi aide-moi la team aqua m’a volé il faut que je récupère le pack devant sinon je vais avoir de graves problèmes

ok c’est une mission pour moi voilà et donc c’est ici que je m’étais entraîné donc je vous ai dit que j’ai rencontré les pokémon c’est pour ça que les dresseurs ne me défile pas de simplement parce que je m’en suis occupé pendant l’entraînement alors ce serait bien que j’ai peut-être une bonne surprise pour vous 1 cet épisode 6 moi je sais pas en tout cas c’est pas avec les pokémon sauvages que je vais y arriver on verra si ça se passe ça se passe c’est plutôt cool ça se passe pas tant pis alors bonjour monsieur ok je faire on se ballade épique aux abois comme une grosse brute nous a sauté dessus ce vaurien fils et mon cher picot au pico ok donc lui il a perdu apparemment pokémon juste aller récupérer sa donc on a pu apercevoir le spi dans le team aqua avec avec 1go élise à côté de lui de doute voilà donc ce fichu on a beaucoup vraiment dans cette enceinte droite tout simplement oui je crois qu’il ya que ça peut-être de l’eau sur frau schmitt pas sûr je sais qu’il ya beaucoup beaucoup de chemin voilà ok alors tu me suis c’est pas possible ce pokémon pris en otage vous sert à rien et quand je pense que je me suis enfui vers ce tunnel qu’il mène nulle part et toi alors tu veux te battre contre moi oh yeah je vais te te battre même betina lou ok parce que j’ai envoyée 70 des idées 2 2 à défaut il ya un petit peu sa gas lift là un petit peu de retard au niveau des le niveau des niveaux sains offre aux flammèches tout simplement parce que je pouvais pas l’augmenter sinon je le faisais évoluer sans vous et je connais même pas fait recette ok donc on l’a battu assez facilement c’est vraiment pas juste le chef m’a dit que ce serait simple comme bonjour tout ce que j’avais à faire c’était de voler un paquet chez de vente ce qu’il veut vraiment à kalou reprendre ok j’ai récupéré le pack devant on va pouvoir le rendre un chercheur de cessation picot tué sauf donc ok donc picosser legault élise quel joueur puis coach doit la vie on m’appelle monsieur marco et voilà je vous en ai parlé durant l’épisode 2 ba 3 on a rencontré sa petite cabane mais donc c’est lui monsieur marco a alors tué géniaux je te remercie infiniment désormais s’il ya quoi que ce soit des états avant paris tu peux toujours tu peux me trouvait dans la maison au bord de mer près du bois paiement si voilà donc il confirme ce que je viens de vous dire nico donc c’est lui qui habite seul dans la petite maison et va tout simplement on va aller je pense lui reparler tout à l’heure débattre parce que du coup de tout juste pour les quelques points d’xp oh du coup j’ai pas battu les comptes harcèle facile invalides à moitié c’est pas énorme hop n’avait pas d’ailleurs et voilà qu’on a récupéré le pack devant valais lui redonner ans qu’il est là comment ça s’est passé le pape devant tu as réussi tu veut la récupérer tu es vraiment un très grand dresseur jeu c’est pour te remercier je te donne une autre super bowl auj est donc maintenant j’ai deux super bowl je suis désolé viens avec moi je t’en prie c’est le deuxième étage du siège de devant est ok et 12 en m’aidant dans l’entreprise de deux ans le bureau du directeur s’y trouve je ne saurais pas je ne saurais te dire combien je suis reconnaissant pour ce que tu as fait a offert plus de pâques et que tu nous a ramenés je peux te demander de le livrer aux chantiers navals de poivre sel union écoutent oui si je ce serait désastreux si les voleurs tenté de le reprendre alors je peux compter sur toi pour rendre service aux c’est vrai je pourrais attendre un instant ici non ici un instant 2 3 go way on se retrouve dans l’entreprise de deux jours on voit quand même par le décor que c’est vraiment une entreprise or notre docteur ahoua te dire un beau si tu veux

bien le suivre grandes tables et canapés tôt et donc on arrive le mans le directeur je suis monsieur rochard le directeur de devant on vient de me parler de toi je serai notre équipe pas une mais deux foires c’est vrai ça j’ai servi cette demande à demander à quelqu’un de si remarquable que toi je sais que je n’arrive pas à lire je sais que tu dois livrer aux pâquis aux chantiers navals de poivre sel sur la route pourrait lui faire une petite halte de viage bio carats je pense que tu pourrai remettre une lettre à pierre au village bio car ok donc on a deux missions maintenant maintenant tu le sors que je suis en grande temps je suis donc pas radin au besoin de demander un service sans contrepartie alors j’aimerais que tu prennes ça ok j’ai eu le poké nav alors ça c’est cool alors il va nous expliquer je crois cet appareil c’est un navigateur pokémon ou poken av c’est juste un raccourci reconcile donc pour faire plus court c’est un outil indispensable dans la quête de tout dresseur et de la carte de la région de l’om tu pourra facilement voir où se situe mieux kara et poivre sel pauvre c’est le pauvre scène puis sous hommes voilà donc maintenant on a l’option poké navy si donc il sera ajouté dans le menu et donc si on va dessus on peut avoir la carte de m on va regarder voilà donc ici c’est clementi on à rosières bourdin veulent et donc mieux queyras est ici voilà donc c’est assez loin on va pouvoir encore enfin j’ai pas de pokémon qui permettent de nager jusqu’à la et poivre sel c’est ici voilà donc ça c’est c’est assez long aussi mais vous allez voir que ça simplifier leurs conditions sur un peu plus trop ce que c’est ah oui d’accord donc ça c’est pour savoir l’étude les taux de sang-froid robustesse beauté intelligence et grasse et donc ça on verra ça plutôt landais quand on fera des potiers blacks là est un faux dresseur g pas trop ce que ça prend si je regarde lui ok des infos sur les dresseurs comment rencontrer ok ok et en os voilà donc on est parti maintenant là deux missions à l’aiea viage biocar a donc je vous ai fait voir et et à poivre et sel donc là où et comment d’eads en société devant vous connecter au deuxième étage sept premiers et là on arrive au rez de chaussée vous sert votre grosse société j’allais voir le bâtiment déjà je sais à compter sur moi je pense voilà vraiment un gros bâtiment et je lève la tête de chez paco m enfin bref voilà donc on va essayer de se rediriger vers le bas et voilà j’ai à dire normalement on a un combat contre contre florin je suis encore plus géniaux commencé avant son pokédex je viens plutôt pas mal j’ai utilisé toutes mes potes me le bloc les lentilles pour attraper le plus de profit ben c’est pas bien parce que c’est des pokémon nul au gua clementi auquel on n’y a pas de combat tant pis alors quand j’ai juste revenir à oui je vis ça lui revient à merville on va aller alors je sais plus si c’est cette maison pendant cet immeuble e est-ce que c’est toi c’est pas toi donc en fait je vous avais vu que le plomb j’ai gagné le badge roche roczen m’a dit ah je crois que ce bloc ou roxane m’a dit que je pouvais désormais utiliser acs coûts et donc on va la récupérer c’est lui qui l’a t’on air déterminé la souplesse des mouvements des pokémon bien entraînés tu à l’évidence en dresseur averti et ouais non attends de dire je devais tout rien cattoir je suis sûr que tu seras capable de faire bonne usage de cette pièce ne soit pas modeste 10 me prend là et voilà donc là on a de récupérer notre première cscs ans qui est coupe voit ses capacités qui peut être utilisé en hauteur des combats tout possible d’ailleurs avril coupe abattent des petits arnaud si son dresseur possède le badge roche et l’on contrairement aux sociétés la css utilisé plusieurs fois voilà donc la cs une fois vous l’avez vous pouvez la prendre tous vos pokémon sans limite alors que là c’était la cité ça s’utilise une fois elle prend la pus voit donc là on va passer très vite y est donc voilà ce sont ces petites blagues pour l’instant je veux pas je peux apprendre de coupe mais pokemon tout simplement parce que simplement parce que c’est assez chiant après parce que près on april c est son peu pâle peut pas apprendre une autre attaque à la place faut aller voir en maître de

ses capacités par contre je vais faire quelque chose dans ce bois c’est que je vais attraper à nerchio tout simplement ce que ça va m’aider pour la suite et donc je pense qu’après on va se quitter au niveau 2 de la maison de monsieur marco donc vite fait pour vous expliquer pourquoi je voulais c’est pourquoi je veux un menu bio tout simplement parce que eux plus tard dont on aura besoin d’explorer de grottes et il faudra donc il faudra éclairer la grotte donc pour ça il faudrait avoir flash et je prends continu du puits au peut avoir flash voilà ce rouge complètement déduction ne peuvent avoir flash c’est pour ça que je passe par les j’espère qu’on peut avoir des dunes piot ici sinon je rappelle plus aux senteurs de choses ça se replace non j’étais couverte un jury du plus haut voilà donc le nid du crô ne veux pas me servir en tant qu’équipe je me suis entraîné dur ici sur trois jardé sans plus bas parce que je suis sûr firme en certains endroits qu’on sortir du bois hop c’est pas du tout là en fait ce serait là je sais pas c’est pareil il égalise oui ce n’est pas du plus que je pis je vais aller directement directement non y a pas pire je crois pas hop habache mieux puisque peut avoir la localisation des déductions bah oui on va se servir du pokédex les loupiots zone ok donc il n’y a pas de menu bio donc voilà bah tiens on va explorer enfin explorer je vous expliquer un peu cette fonction du pokédex donc quand on va dans une zone voyez qu’il ya des hommes en rouge et donc c’est là où on peut trouver les menus bio voilà donc en fait c’est bien là où je pense et c’est à dire entre clementi et rosières bon alors couvert tournée juste choqué un élu clos ici l’argent il y a donné des pioches d’ailleurs c’est vrai j’ai trouvé le tard salle qui est à bas voilà bien n’est dupe you par contre je pas pouvoir l’attaquer sinon je suis super bowl aller d’oublier a toute sa vie vraiment une super bonne 3 et paf non oui frère lui tout le ok on raconte que jadis n’est dupe il vivait sur terre mon cause que ce week end et revenons vers la poigne sur sa tête était devenue trop grande et rolo maintenant réduit en flottant à la surface de l’eau ok ok ok maintenant là trois pokémon même si celui-là celui là ne va pas me servir et donc j’ai retourné au niveau de monsieur marco pourquoi je passe par la plage pour lui était désert c’est monsieur marco élan que sa maison qu’il ya apparence ras du filet j’arrête de revenants rappellerai juste à le bloquer tiens bon attendez je vais essayer de lui parler hop bon voilà attend mon petit picot bien ici a et u et géniaux cha selon picot adoré de te demander fière chandelle comment tu veut embarquer avec moi alors comme ça tu veux mettre destination du haut karabakh et à déposer à poivre et sel tu ne dois pas avoir le temps de s’ennuyer quoi qu’il en soit pas de problème je peux t’aider je frappais la bonne porte on met le cap sur mios kara et bien pour l’instant je vais mettre non avant la livraison peut attendre dans ce quart vient me voir quand tu voudras maintenant les voiles et donc on va se laisser ici pour l’épisode iv du let’s play et donc comme vous l’aurez compris à l’épisode 5 on s’attaquera à mios kara qui possède également une arène donc on verra ça on verra ça là bas et il y aura aussi une

autre petite surprise pour l’épisode 2 pour l’épisode 5 de tulle est pleine donc j’espère que ça vous a plu hésitez pas à regarder autre visage si vous les avez pas vu n’hésitez pas à laisser un pouce vert vous abonner à commenter surtout moi j’aime bien les commentaires est passé sur les réseaux sociaux et sur ce je vous dis salut tout le monde et rendez vous dans une prochaine vidéo allez tous

this up guys is MIA Raisa welcome back to a new episode of Pokemon like plot them in the previous episode we start off her new journey in our new region of Lauren and in this episode hopefully we’ll be able to take on the new gym leader and exe suppose or she’s supposed to be in this in this route in the city so yeah also in the previous episode we hit 21 likes which is awesome if we can hit that like goal again not 21 likes but let’s try to hit the light goal of Australia 25 likes by the next episode if you guys can hit 25 likes on the next episode that would be great you guys hit 25 likes by the end of today which would be tomorrow at Thursday exactly 250 p.m then I will upload another episode the day after so if you guys can hit 25 likes before tomorrow that would be awesome and I’ll be able upload another episode of like platinum right away so yeah let’s write it that like will also answer the common question of the day which will be in the layout and yeah so let’s go ahead and start this off awesomely I guess I don’t know bye oh yeah also I’ve totally forgot to add that we got a new team member in d watt and hopefully we’ll be getting a samurai soon so yeah let’s go ahead and continue on there’s a cave over here not sure if we’re supposed to go in there but let’s go in the gym first oh there’s someone blocking it off let’s see what he has to say the bolita rogue shale is at the mines go there okay let’s go the mine off to the mine I’ll probably be exploring the theory I guess the city and going in every door and asking people like you know if they have any items of course and I’ll do that all off-screen and I’ll tell you guys in the next episode probably what we get so let’s go and switch out to t-rex and we can go ahead and probably use some sub stuff these crunch see how much that does oh they did a lot o go then did a lot let’s go and crunch again and D walks up the little 25 and he’s gonna learn water pulse was this 60 this does 40 so let’s get rid of water again and there we go go ahead and continue on super potions that’s kind of useless whatever I’ll take it and mop up on fine gravel errs in here let’s talk to you it’s gonna walk because we have a less lesser chance I guess of finding wild Pokemon so yeah I’m a champ champ what’s gonna fly but yeah how’s your guys’s day been my day’s been pretty good just got back from school recently and um yeah as you guys do know I do I have like a lot of work to be due to be done sorry I can’t really think right now I’m kind of just like trying to focus on this while talking about other stuff so yeah but as you know I have been pretty busy with school recently which is why I haven’t been able to upload consistently but there is there is something and good to be said about what’s happening right now which is that school is basically going to be ending from you soon it’s not really it’s not going to be over you know like I still have to go to school but like how I handle like my class schedule is that in my school you essentially complete an entire year’s worth of school classes whatever in a semester so I since this is my senior year in high school I decided to take upon myself to get all the hard classes out of the way first so I did that and right now I have all the hard classes that I supposed to do to graduate right now which is the reason why I kind of been sort of slow with the uploads and I apologize for that whoa a shelf also okay I’ll take it um hey I apologize also for the dog in the background my dogs kind of going crazy I know but yeah so after this semester basically I’m going to have all the pushover classes like I’m actually taking imaging to improve my you know my skill at the photo shops and hopefully I’ll be okada that wall climb I have to have rock climb to have rock climb please tell me I have pokken or I have the team for rock climbing or something oh man okay so I’m guessing that can be obtained somewhere in the city so I’m going to go ahead and check that real quick but I’m yes so pushover class I’m taking imaging to improve my skill at the Photoshop hopefully I’ll become a little

bit better at what I do also what else do I have I’m a teacher I’m going to be a teacher’s assistant teacher’s assistant I’m gonna also take weight training because you know I don’t got a pump that I got to become a strong boy you know gotta lift them weights becomes swollen like that and I got team 49 that is rock boom just like that I didn’t even realize that this is actually supposed to be the place to go but whatever we got it we got the tm4 rockslide let’s go ahead and use that boot it up and what he learned it though I do it do I seriously have rockslide already on Pokemon what the hell I do have rocks like what the fluff lip lipid he knew what the flip let’s go back over there ah well that that’s a little embarrassing either okay so yeah I’m taking weight training I’m taking I’m becoming a teacher’s assistant I’m also going to what else am I going to do I have another class oh yeah I have a free period which means I get to essentially just leave early from school so basically the only legit class I have to show up for is basically a imaging which I actually want to do actually rocks can be climb can I use what the hell what do I have to do rocks can be climbed what the hell these rocks can be climbed that’s very descriptive dude can I like I thought rock climb would work but I guess not what the hell what the flip to it I can can you move step aside lady Jesus Jesus okay well I think I think I’m in a dilemma right now this is not good I’m guessing okay then there has to be an answer I may have to pause the video just to figure out what the hell I’m supposed to do this game is quite confusing sometimes it pisses me off of occasionally I actually got a comment from I think it was peanut gaming 13 shout-out to you homie you’ve been a subscriber mine since like the beginning since like before I even hit a thousand subs which so thank you for being such a loyal follower um he told me that I can actually catch all the some of the legendaries already so I plan on doing that sometime soon I plan on doing if you guys actually want to see me catch the legendaries if you want to see the see me catch the legendaries leave a comment down below because I want to get you guys’s take on this because you know some people don’t want to see me catch all the legendaries and stuff like that so who knows who knows maybe you guys want to see me catch little engineers I don’t know but I do not know any of the legendaries that can actually be caught at the moment I only know that there can be legendaries that can be caught that’s that’s about it and okay so was I not even supposed to go there is this the chick I’m supposed to talk to oh my god this is this just yeah what’s the hell’s this why the hell is this thing orange okay anyway spiral fossil code talk to you hey kid hold on a second I’m using this machine to pull minerals out of the ground what was the part of job done X again I’m Michelle leader sorry I had to go back to the refine right now okay okay so I wasn’t even supposed to go there Jesus okay I’m glad I came down here gonna talk to you what do you want he gave me something cool thank you for the fossil I keep getting fossils and I don’t know what to do with them maybe I had to go in here just somehow revives the fossils oh wait she said she had to go to refinery right so I’m guessing this is where she went I’m not sure though she said something about a refinery I’m not sure though let’s go and see let’s go up here to talk to you people that are important you look important now by you oh hi arise oh I’m doing work here in the refinery what you want me to hurry so that you can challenge me at the gym yes hold your horses I’ll be back at the gym in a minute what hold your horses I’ll be back in gym minute okay so if I go if I leave this room I show probably should always be at the gym already right she better be what the hell what up now she’s in the mind what did the hell are you talking about kid am I in a glitch in line the glitch that I can get out of you have to leave and exit and then re-enter and something stupid like that I’m doing some work here what want me to hurry is they each other then yes what

if I say no are you kidding me are you kidding me you have to say no that’s so stupid oh my god this games so stupid sometimes you have to say no so like what if the dude doesn’t even freaking know that you have to sing knows you just at the way go fricken it’ll do we’ll be wandering for hours upon hours it’s a safe no that’s so stupid oh my god this is the same gym concept as before oh my god what is this a rock gym okay I’ll put I’ll put my friend venable up front and we’ll go and give him the lucky egg oh man I mean I don’t want to go on a rant about this game because I don’t think this game is that bad of our romhack it’s just that it’s a little bit too confusing on what it wants you to do so you can get lost in this game very easily is this a is this a ground of rock Jim oh my god either way I’m guessing that this isn’t Oh ground Jim or rock Jim because we do have a marowak in here so if this is a ground gym then I’ll be sure to his turn oh my god I really wish I could use my faith one of my favorite Pokemon jaws right now but I did substitute him for a deal wat and deal what’s not going to be able to do anything so Oh can any of my other Pokemon Oh weights do I have ice beam do I have ice cream on you do I have ice beam on you oh I do okay okay welcome to the club welcome to the front of my team I hope you enjoy your stay there so yeah let’s go ahead continue on and boom ride on what the hell I thought this was a not is this an I is this like some kind of weird weird some something weird something weird is this something weird that I don’t know about cuz isn’t it right on like okay steelix okay so is this what the hell is this a Rock Gym is this a Rock Gym this is a ground gym what the hell is this supposed to be what is this supposed to baby I don’t know do I keep leveling up thank you um we beat Jorge Thank You Jorge and I guess we can just battle the gym leader straight away he’s got an era dactyl so this is a Rock Gym finally got that straight okay cool let’s go ahead and battle her right now Rochelle what you doin route shale welcome to the Rockefeller city gym as it’s later I use the strongest boss to pull them out of the fetus okay so this is a fossil gym is this what it is supposed to be I don’t know but I like that sprite she’s got pink hair and she’s got an arm Aldo so we are actually really underleveled but luckily it doesn’t really matter let’s go nice being you our model shouldn’t be able to take actually it should be able to take this pretty well yeah took it took it really well I’m gonna go ahead and how about let’s outrage you and see how much dad does see how much that does that should do more oh we almost knock that ancient power that should do a bit that should do a bit Oh God oh okay not to me about Jesus and it got all those frickin bumps and the speed bumps I don’t know what the hell um you and okay so I’m I might actually be in trouble for this Jim hello uh let’s go ahead and faint attack it well you should be able to knock this thing I don’t know why I’m so addicted to pressing the speed-up button I don’t know if you guys are when you guys are playing emulators but like seriously I’m so addicted to freaking holding down that spacebar but I gotta get over that bastard on oh my god how am I supposed to do this without Leviathan I can’t I wish or I mean I’d be able to handle this thing if I had frickin Feraligatr but no I had to be smart via I want to try new Pokemon no habla god dammit uh okay let’s go check the venom I think Venom’s got a good ground type move I think Basti Oh Don is steel rock hopefully i’m toefl in door using door okay please I don’t remember what typing this thing is okay good knock it out oh it did a decent that did a decent there you go we are faster because vent scolipede is freakin fastest dude this thing gets access to speed boost as well as look I checked out its on smote on and this thing is freaking epic Aerodactyl okay so I can’t do anything to this thing oh my god no Leviathan I need you to be alive right now oh this is not good okay let’s switch out to okay I think I’m gonna have a

sacrificial lamb here I’m gonna let venoms sacrifice itself for the better cause of the team I’m sorry or deck or I’m sorry scolipede but we don’t even have any okay good I have I have eight revives okay I’m good so let’s go ahead and heal up Leviathan you can take one for the team why ancient power super effective the hell okay I’m not going to question anything I’m not really that great with Taipings that much anymore except for the obvious types you know let’s go ahead and ice beam it Oh scary face why would you scary face me you’re already faster than me I don’t know I need to harshly rage or lower my speed whatever I spew it kill it kill it kill it please ah damn it oh god oh my god you literally just sealed my victory with that second scary face you could have at least made it interesting by attacking a lion but whatever whatever man you can go ahead and lose peace peace out this was an easy gym battle pushover she’s the definition of a pushover Rochelle you are a pushover I see a brilliant future for you keep getting keep on getting stronger now that you’ve been now that you’ve beaten me I’ll give you the first batch of the Loren League the mineral badge so you got the mineral badge cool cool cool cool so now we can use team 39 rock climb outside of battle and did we get robbed climb again did we get rock climb again we have two rock climbs what the hell what the hell is the point of that guy then giving me that suit couldn’t you give me a team that I huh this game gives me headaches Oh rock climbing rocks I’m so stupid I’m so stupid I’m so stupid I’m so stupid this just – I’m so stupid Oh God the comments that can racy the comments right now you’re an idiot it says rock slide not rock climbing you idiot dumbass you stuff like that yeah yeah yeah I know I’m an idiot no yes okay I don’t want to teach rock climbing anybody here but I guess I’ve had to teach it to someone I would teach it to you venom because I mean this moves that’s not that great I’m not really a big fan of double-edge so let’s Garrett double-edge i’m not really a big fan of recoil ease unless they have that ability which prevents recoil damage alright so let’s go ahead and leave I’m gonna go and speed the substance I can’t run in the gym doesn’t I never I never understood that why you can’t run in certain areas never understood that but let’s go ahead and heal over pokemon um good talk to Nurse Joy give me my Pokemon back damn bimbo alright let’s go ahead and I guess got to go up here now since we now have access to TM 39 drop climb not rockslide e let’s go ahead and continue on though so mm geodude’s dude you need to get out of my way and not full fini get ya get out on my uh-uh man stop running in the gravel errs and geodude’s and heroines although I really do like Aaron actually made an awesome competitive team so far for my you know because I like to do a phase speaking of which a couple of guys have been asking me to do some like Wi-Fi battles and stuff like that and I actually plan to do Wi-Fi battles sometime in the near future probably wants to get my capture card though I mean I can buy the capture card right now but I’m not sure if I should gasps Trudeau no oh no no no no muddy water this up in a ditch outraged I Andy what’s it too low 29 go and continue on but yeah I’m not sure if I should buy yet I mean because I really want to get I mean I don’t know because it’s been a while since the 3ds has been you know released and you never know these days when Nintendo’s gonna announce that next handheld device so I may wait till then to get a capture card but I’m not sure yet I may just end up getting it because you guys really want me to so you know I may just end up getting it I don’t know oh my god a rival battle no no no no no I did not want these this has done to I do not want these no no no no I do not want this in my life all right I think we’re ready to just go ahead and take them on head-on finally we meet for a battle but do this yellow

yay yellow looks exactly like me got luxray okay that’s pretty cool i really like luxury i was surprised to find out that this was nu tear and I mean this pokemon is like one of my favorite electric types ever I just looks awesome just look at the lungs array just look at it it looks sick it looks sick you cannot tell me this thing does not look sick please please please please please oh no no no no no no no no no Nick Nick Nick Nick Nick stop it just just dialogue sorry I do not want you here right now cuz you’re a threat I don’t appreciate people that are threatening blaziken oh I actually made a competitive place akin yesterday and it was pretty it’s pretty sick I know it’s I know it’s good words but like it’s safe Pokemon I really like enjoy Blaziken what the hell is it how’s the boys kiss yeah sorry I just brain farted this okay that’s enough venom and oh my God look is that spread from Blaziken that looks super sick he imagines they had Megas in this game I wonder what they would put the sprite for mega Blaziken oh look like uh let’s see how much earth Pig does it’s probably gonna kill me here butch blaze kick yeah I’m definitely dead I’m definitely dead oh he took it he took it oh it’s probably because of the rain it’s probably because of the rain lowering to blowing down the fire type attacks probably the only reason why venom survived that either way we’re gonna knock it out get out of my house Blaziken oh my god surviving that 119 HP that’s awesome you’re a little trooper you know that venom you’re a trooper here a trooper that’s why I have you on my team and my father is calling me so I will be right back ok we’re back sorry for that I had to help my dad with the computer he is having some issues but now that we are back and up and running where’s my mouse there’s my mouse ok so now that we are up and running we can go ahead and travel on to the next city I don’t know how long we’ve been recording for but I was gone for a bit maybe like five minutes so I will subtract like five minutes from it so I’d say we’re around like 20 minutes something like that something like that and we’re in this cool little city this is a cool design oh I’m out of breath cuz I had to run OH so let’s go ahead and actually you want to just you know I think I feel I feel like ending off the episode here so we’re gonna go ahead and do that exit the Pokemon Center real quick and my arm hurts for some weird reason we’re in skiner city anyways I hope you guys enjoyed the episode please remember to leave a like rating if you enjoyed let’s try to hit 25 likes by the next episode if you guys can hit 25 likes by tomorrow I will have an episode of Pokemon Life platinum up for you the very next day which will be Thursday so let’s try it that like I’ll answer the comment question of the day because I do read all your comments and with that being said guys I will talk to you guys soon peace